Re: [Blackbelly] what to do about an aggressive ram?
At 04:16 PM 1/12/2010, you wrote: Dave asks.. Is it a good better idea to keep more than one ram (or wether) together rather than keeping only one ram segregated and alone? Will rams fight if they are together with another ram or wether? A lone sheep of either sex will be very stressed. I think that even a goat companion is better than no companion (assuming they get along). But a wether is useful in lots of situations--keeping lone rams company; babysitting weanling lambs; providing a comforting male presence in a ewe flock with none of the hormonal tension. Dave asks... In your experience what percentage of rams would you estimate are aggressive I've raised about a dozen ram to their 2-year mark and only one, my foundation ram (who was an only ram during his formative years) was aggressive. His sole mission in life was to kill me. He'd take a cattle prod on the nose to get to me. Because Barbados Blackbelly genetics were so scarce in those days, I had to keep him around much longer than he deserved. I can't speak to any more generalized percentage that that. Dave asks... Does this mean the more reliable way to get a gentile ram is to use the above as a technique? I would assume the aggressive rams are the ones people want to get rid of or eat. I'm not sure yet if my theory holds that a ram raised under a dominant ram will be less aggressive to humans. But it is worth considering, I think. I don't think there is a reliable way to get a nonaggressive ram. Dave asks... Could the ram lambs being the friendliest just be a lambs manifestation of being more aggressive and only being interpreted by humans as friendliest? No, I think that rams in general are friendlier to humans because, unlike ewes, they don't have lambs to protect. I don't think that lamb friendliness is a prediction of eventual ram aggression. And the lambs I was referring to were more the 6-8 month age. I find them more curious and more willing to come up to sniff me. A ewe of that age (in my flock) is much less trusting. You are asking great questions, Dave, and I appreciate everyone's contribution to these really good discussions. Carol Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] what to do about an aggressive ram?
Thanks to everyone for all the helpful input!!! I can already see things I have done wrong in trying to treat my ram like a dog instead of a ram. A mistake I will not make again and great tips for a successful future with my little friends. The character traits from one animal to another (blood lines) makes lots of sense and is just like breeding personality traits in cattle. Gentile mom and dad and gentile babies. Thanks again, Dave - Original Message - From: Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] what to do about an aggressive ram? I would like to add my comments concerning the aggressive ram question. First, there is something different about male sheep, whether they are rams or wethers. The boys just seem more curious and outgoing, from the time they are babies on through adulthood. Even my wethers (which I have often kept in large numbers as herding sheep, until they were several years old) have often seemed more curious and friendly than my ewes, and have had charming personalities. The ewes seem to always be more shy, from birth onward. Second, I believe that certain male bloodlines tend to be more aggressive than others. I know the ram that Carol Elkins is talking about, and I also had a son of this ram. Both rams looked alike, and both behaved in similarly aggressive ways. And similarly, I have had rams that are simply sweetie pies. Those boys would come over just to say hello, and they never would try to pull any cheap shots, like a sudden fling of their massive heads in my direction. Like the above mean rams, these sweet rams seem to pass on their gentle nature to their sons too. Regardless of a ram's innate nature, I also believe that it is very important to establish yourself as the boss with a ram early on, and to make sure the animal doesn't forget that. And even if you think your rams are friendly, NEVER turn your back on rams and allow yourself to get distracted doing chores while they are there. Rams are sneaky, and every once in awhile they cannot resist the temptation to charge someone when their back is turned. This is how people have gotten seriously hurt or killed by rams, most often. The important thing to remember is, you must ALWAYS reinforce who is the boss with these guys. If there is any doubt (i.e., a ram seems to be testing you), you will have to step up the responses with that ram. Sometimes it may only take a swat on the bridge of his nose with a fiberglass stock stick. That swat may make him wince and step back (and he might even act hurt or shocked that you would hit him). But you must be prepared to hit him harder than you might want to hit him. I have been told by one old-time rancher that you must be prepared to take a stick as big as a baseball bat in with you, and be prepared to swing it as hard as you would swing a bat. I have never done this, and was always afraid that I would hurt or kill one of my rams if I hit him that hard. But the point this rancher was trying to make was that you must be willing to do this if the situation calls for it. Please keep in mind that I think I have very well-behaved rams. I have never had a ram so aggressive nor crazy that I could not stop him from advancing. That kind of aggression is certainly the exception, not the rule. I typically have about 12 adult rams, living peacefully together in a pasture and causing no problems to each other. When one of my rams is with his ewes for breeding, he does not beat them up or charge them. The ram and his ewes get along peacefully. I have usually removed the rams before lambs are born, but I have also reintroduced a ram to a group of ewes with small nursing lambs, and have not noticed any aggressive behavior from the ram. Over a period of time, if I thought that one of my rams was behaving too aggressively to other rams, or to his ewes, or to little lambs, I would strongly consider getting rid of that ram. Finally, my advice would be that in raising a ram lamb from birth, you should basically ignore them and avoid touching or cuddling them. Continue this arm's length relationship with them as they grow up, and resist all temptation to show verbal or physical closeness with them. Keep them guessing about your attitude, and they will respect you more for it. It is almost impossible to re-establish that respectful distance between you and a ram, if you have coddled him and allowed him to be physically close to you when he was younger. And if you purchase a ram which was bottle fed, you may find that he is dangerously aggressive as he ages, because he was never shown that respectful distance as a baby. In fact, I recommend that you castrate all male bottle-fed lambs, no exceptions. Bottle-fed rams almost always turn out to be aggressively dangerous adult rams. Just my
[Blackbelly] I am back home and finally back on email !!
hello everyone! the OCT/NOV trip ended up being an OCT/NOV/DEC trip with me finally getting home JAN 2nd! - the trip just would not die! - but finally all the animals were delivered and I returned home to no water or email the water problem was solved just in time for the BIG Texas freeze! - it is not supposed to get down to near single digit temps in central TX but it did and there was a MAJOR run on PVC at the local hardware stores - I lost some PVC and my surface tank jet pump to ice damage - I just got the new jet pump and PVC repairs operational today so I finally have water - the running into town every morning to use a grocery store rest room was getting OLD! the no email problem turned out to be three problems - two problems were due to changes at my ISP that were not documented in the web site Help Desk section - I found this out after buying a new Compaq PC because all indications were that I had a bad motherboard on my old PC - so now I have a new PC but am using the old one because that is were all my data is - the third problem is still ATT's but it is just an irritation so I can live with it until they 'discover' what the problem is my plans for the short term future are: put a new engine and transmission in the van/RV tow vehicle totally inspect/service EVERY component of the RV and trailer begin long range planning for a late FEB/MAR trip for now I am taking inquiries and reservations for the next trip - a tentative schedule will develop over the next several weeks I always need pick up city/state, drop off city/state, and a brief description of the animals in every email please if there are timing restrictions or complications (export) please inform me of your needs and schedules I do not monitor the groups closely so please reply directly to my private email address at rkee...@realtime.net payment is due on delivery - I can take cash, check, MO, and PayPal there is no contract other than your word via email re: Corgi puppies - Tina and Jeremy did not successfully breed during her last heat - next opportunity for breeding will be late spring -- questions? Ron and Corgi co-pilots Tina and Jeremy (AKC) operating from a base near Austin TX private email at rkee...@realtime.net web site at http://TravelWithRonK.com group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravelWithRonK TravelWithRonK is dedicated to coast to coast transport of small quantities of small livestock with nearly 3000 animals transported in 10 years of service ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
