Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb
Thanks Carol. I have a few extra things to add for consideration. I know that I won't have a definitive answer but I want to throw some of this out there. This is the first time I've ever castrated. I have a very small flock - five ewes. I have grown tired of separating the ram lambs from the ewe lambs as my fenced areas are smaller than I'd like. I like seeing them all run together so I thought I'd castrate. Next time I won't castrate so young. The other fellas were a week old and strong, this guy was still little. The night before castration I was awakened by the sound of very close by foxes. I have livestock guardian dogs. One female is just under two and pretty solid but still immature. I haven't kept her in with the sheep at night, only once in awhile. So at 4:00 am I got up to check the sheep. The foxes were close and the dogs were barking. I put my dog in with the sheep. We have lots of snow here that is now hard and crusty and the animals can run on top of it to get around leaving my flock vulnerable. That morning was when I noticed the nick on the ram's head. Now I'm all worried that it was my dog who did this. But if the ram had neurological issues from a snap from the dog wouldn't they have manifested themselves right away? I have a hard time believing she did this as she will carefully lay among the sheep during the days while supervised. However, how does a two day old lamb get a nick? This leads me to my next point...don't castrate unless the lamb is 100%. He appeared fine that day but why stress him out with another procedure? Last thing to consider. This first time ewe has four nipples instead of two. Normally you'd probably not keep that but I liked her conformation and her lines throw some nice lambs. She's really skittish but I managed to express milk from two on the same side so I know her plumbing is working. If she is a little different - could that impact her lambs? I can't change what happened but for my remaining two ewes who have to deliver I will ensure that they have their own space to lamb and be apart from the rest of the flock as to avoid unfortunate accidents. Thanks for your input. Natasha British Columbia, Canada Sent from my iPad Do not beat yourself up; simply learn. The only thing that occurred to me from reading your email is wondering if perhaps it might be unnecessary to castrate your ram lambs. That would reduce the amount of trauma that they have to go through, especially so soon after birth. It never gets easier. Don't let anyone tell you that it does. Carol ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb
I do have one mom with triplets who has been a little pushier than I'd like. When I found the lamb he was curled up against the hay feeding station. Those greedy moms could easily have squashed him. I need to pick axe open a frozen gate that will separate the flock. My next two ewes to go will be in that safe area away from the older lambs and less tolerant mothers. I don't think this lamb was over fed. His mother, for a first time mother, has been very good and attentive. I will keep my next set of lambs separate until they are stronger as you suggest. Thanks for your input, Cecil. Natasha British Columbia, Canada Sent from my iPad The only time I have had lambs cry out in pain is when they had enterotoxemia from over feeding. I would never elastrate a lamb before 4 months old. It is possible that you little one tried to nurse another mother and was shoved into the barn, ground, etc. I have seen other mothers being exceptionally mean when the wrong lamb tried to nurse. These mothers usually found another home if they were unnecessarily aggressive. I would always keep my lambs in a pen with their mother for 4 to 5 days before turning them out with the flock. This way they were bonded and did not try to nurse the wrong one... ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Fading lamb/actually castrating
I just kind of jumped into this today. Regarding castrating lambs. I, like Natasha, do not like to have to separate my male from female lambs. If the ram lambs are not RR or good enough to be breeders, I get them castrated. I have my vet do it. She recommends that they be castrated between 3-7 days, as it is less painful for them. There was a study done on cattle, somewhere I guess, regarding this issue. She will not band the lamb, if the mother has not received CDT within a month of birth. She recommends cutting instead, if not vaccinated. The banding leads to rotting off of the necrotic(dead no blood supply) testicles, and could lead to infection. And enterotoxemia. I bring the lambs to her and she only charges me $2 per lamb to castrate by cutting. She also gives them a nerve block prior(shot). I have not had any trouble with the lambs. We banded one lamb once, and he was uncomfortable for awhile, and my husband said if he had to be castrated, he would want it quick and not have to wait for them to rot off. Just my take on castration. Oh, I always vaccinate my ewes prior to breeding and 1 month prior to lambing. For the tetanus. Tetanus is a bacteria in the soil, and all animals are susceptible to this is they get a cut or what ever. I know that most of you advertise no vaccinations, but that is why I do it. Liz Radi Nubian goats and Katahdin Hair Sheep Nunn, Colorado 970-716-7218 idaralpaca.blogspot.com --- meadowskuv...@gmail.com wrote: From: R. Natasha Baronas meadowskuv...@gmail.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 07:24:59 -0700 Thanks Carol. I have a few extra things to add for consideration. I know that I won't have a definitive answer but I want to throw some of this out there. This is the first time I've ever castrated. I have a very small flock - five ewes. I have grown tired of separating the ram lambs from the ewe lambs as my fenced areas are smaller than I'd like. I like seeing them all run together so I thought I'd castrate. Next time I won't castrate so young. The other fellas were a week old and strong, this guy was still little. The night before castration I was awakened by the sound of very close by foxes. I have livestock guardian dogs. One female is just under two and pretty solid but still immature. I haven't kept her in with the sheep at night, only once in awhile. So at 4:00 am I got up to check the sheep. The foxes were close and the dogs were barking. I put my dog in with the sheep. We have lots of snow here that is now hard and crusty and the animals can run on top of it to get around leaving my flock vulnerable. That morning was when I noticed the nick on the ram's head. Now I'm all worried that it was my dog who did this. But if the ram had neurological issues from a snap from the dog wouldn't they have manifested themselves right away? I have a hard time believing she did this as she will carefully lay among the sheep during the days while supervised. However, how does a two day old lamb get a nick? This leads me to my next point...don't castrate unless the lamb is 100%. He appeared fine that day but why stress him out with another procedure? Last thing to consider. This first time ewe has four nipples instead of two. Normally you'd probably not keep that but I liked her conformation and her lines throw some nice lambs. She's really skittish but I managed to express milk from two on the same side so I know her plumbing is working. If she is a little different - could that impact her lambs? I can't change what happened but for my remaining two ewes who have to deliver I will ensure that they have their own space to lamb and be apart from the rest of the flock as to avoid unfortunate accidents. Thanks for your input. Natasha British Columbia, Canada Sent from my iPad Do not beat yourself up; simply learn. The only thing that occurred to me from reading your email is wondering if perhaps it might be unnecessary to castrate your ram lambs. That would reduce the amount of trauma that they have to go through, especially so soon after birth. It never gets easier. Don't let anyone tell you that it does. Carol ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] Fading lamb
I know that death is a part of having animals but this is killing me nonetheless. One of my wee lambs is in the house being warmed up by hot towels and a heating pad. I found him in a lifeless heap this morning barely breathing. I am now reliving the last 24 hours and chastising myself for some bad decisions. I took the ram lambs to my friends place to elastrate them yesterday. This fella was the youngest, two days old. I noticed he had a small nick where his horns should be (if they had horns). It was bleeding slightly and I had no idea how he got the cut. My friend examined it and we decided it was alright and did the elastrating. He was hale and hearty afterwards and I had no reason to be concerned. This morning his wound was a little infected. I don't know if the wound and the elastration was too much for his little body. I think now that I shouldn't have elastrated him. I brought him to my friends again to try and find a solution. His heart was beating well, good breath - just totally limp. We tube fed him electrolytes, he had a poop, but still hasn't picked up. We're back at home and on the heating pad and he moans now and again. I treated his head. My friend has never seen this type of presentation before. Is it neurological? Did he take a whack on the head and now he's hooped? The vet wants $175 emergency call out to see him. Any suggestions? Natasha British Columbia, Canada Sent from my iPad ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb
Natasha, I'm so sorry to hear about your lamb. Yes, death is part of raising livestock, but lamb deaths are particularly painful, especially when you work so hard to keep them alive. It is important that we try to learn something from every death that occurs. Unfortunately, all of my most valuable lessons have been learned the hard way at the expense of an animal's life. If we learn the lesson, then we are likely to not repeat it. Carefully review all of the circumstances surrounding the lamb's short life and determine if, in hind sight, there was anything that could have been done differently. Do not beat yourself up; simply learn. The only thing that occurred to me from reading your email is wondering if perhaps it might be unnecessary to castrate your ram lambs. That would reduce the amount of trauma that they have to go through, especially so soon after birth. On my farm, ram lambs grow up to be either breeding rams or freezer lambs, and neither require castration. Unlike other breeds of sheep, blackbelly meat remains mild flavored well past 3 years of age. The only time I castrated a ram lamb was when I had to bottle feed a lamb whose mother had died. I knew I'd never be able to butcher him, and sometimes it's very handy to have a wether around. It never gets easier. Don't let anyone tell you that it does. Carol At 03:29 PM 4/3/2014, R. Natasha Baronas wrote: I put the lamb down about an hour after writing this. He started crying like he was in pain. My friend talked to a nurse and they feel that the lamb may have taken a hit to the head. It sounded like neurological damage. Sadly yours, Natasha Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb
The only time I have had lambs cry out in pain is when they had enterotoxemia from over feeding. I would never elastrate a lamb before 4 months old. It is possible that you little one tried to nurse another mother and was shoved into the barn, ground, etc. I have seen other mothers being exceptionally mean when the wrong lamb tried to nurse. These mothers usually found another home if they were unnecessarily aggressive. I would always keep my lambs in a pen with their mother for 4 to 5 days before turning them out with the flock. This way they were bonded and did not try to nurse the wrong one... Cecil in OKla On 4/3/2014 4:56 PM, Carol Elkins wrote: Natasha, I'm so sorry to hear about your lamb. Yes, death is part of raising livestock, but lamb deaths are particularly painful, especially when you work so hard to keep them alive. It is important that we try to learn something from every death that occurs. Unfortunately, all of my most valuable lessons have been learned the hard way at the expense of an animal's life. If we learn the lesson, then we are likely to not repeat it. Carefully review all of the circumstances surrounding the lamb's short life and determine if, in hind sight, there was anything that could have been done differently. Do not beat yourself up; simply learn. The only thing that occurred to me from reading your email is wondering if perhaps it might be unnecessary to castrate your ram lambs. That would reduce the amount of trauma that they have to go through, especially so soon after birth. On my farm, ram lambs grow up to be either breeding rams or freezer lambs, and neither require castration. Unlike other breeds of sheep, blackbelly meat remains mild flavored well past 3 years of age. The only time I castrated a ram lamb was when I had to bottle feed a lamb whose mother had died. I knew I'd never be able to butcher him, and sometimes it's very handy to have a wether around. It never gets easier. Don't let anyone tell you that it does. Carol At 03:29 PM 4/3/2014, R. Natasha Baronas wrote: I put the lamb down about an hour after writing this. He started crying like he was in pain. My friend talked to a nurse and they feel that the lamb may have taken a hit to the head. It sounded like neurological damage. Sadly yours, Natasha Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Fading lamb
I'm so sorry for your loss. I worry every day about my little ones and I can't imagine your pain. Jann Sent from my iPhone On Apr 3, 2014, at 3:29 PM, R. Natasha Baronas meadowskuv...@gmail.com wrote: I put the lamb down about an hour after writing this. He started crying like he was in pain. My friend talked to a nurse and they feel that the lamb may have taken a hit to the head. It sounded like neurological damage. Sadly yours, Natasha Sent from my iPad ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
