Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Simon Phipps]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 11:16 PM Michael Meeks 
wrote:

>
> On 23/03/2021 18:56, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> > Am 23.03.21 um 19:11 schrieb Italo Vignoli:
> >> OSI statement: https://opensource.org/OSI_Response
> >
> > great and consequent statement.
>
> Perhaps more measured than:
>
> https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
>
> Which is gathering steam, and focuses on the beliefs that are
> acceptable in various communities.
>

Note however I am not asking TDF's Board to endorse a public statement by
others, or to engage in discussion of the valid ethical and moral issues
raised in those statements. As a former director I have been in multiple
TDF meetings where this has happened and know it is divisive and
unproductive in this community.

Instead, I am asking the Board to suspend FSF's membership of TDF's
Advisory Board until such time as they regain the authority that led to
them being freely offered the role in the first place and which they have
squandered by their recent actions. I suggest the Board simply vote on this
action directly, in the light of all the available public information.

Cheers

Simon

Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Michael Meeks]

On 23/03/2021 18:56, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> Am 23.03.21 um 19:11 schrieb Italo Vignoli:
>> OSI statement: https://opensource.org/OSI_Response
>
> great and consequent statement.

Perhaps more measured than:

https://rms-open-letter.github.io/

Which is gathering steam, and focuses on the beliefs that are
acceptable in various communities.

Regards,

Michael.

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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Brett Cornwall]

On 2021-03-23 17:46, Simon Phipps wrote:

I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board has
demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be regarded as
bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other organisations[2]
are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance, TDF's Board should
also consider removal of FSF from their advisory board, at least
temporarily until it has achieved representative governance.


This was very effectively stated, and I'm hearted by the swift response 
by the community at large.


While Stallman's contributions in the past have been monumental for us 
all, his continued abuses of his status has seriously harmed the cause 
of free software.


I would be delighted for TDF/LibreOffice to sever ties with FSF America 
and instead solely rely on FSFe for advisement.


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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Emiliano Vavassori]

Il 23/03/21 23:27, William Gathoye (LibreOffice) ha scritto:
Also, this RMS situation is the perfect timing to have/enforce a proper 
contributor agreement/code of conduct/manifesto/call-it-what-you-want-to 
agreement without the need to reinvent the wheel.


Which is already in place since some time:
https://www.documentfoundation.org/foundation/code-of-conduct/

And to which any member (Advisory Board members included) has to support 
and adhere to.


Far from perfect? Yes, sure, probably miles away. Hope to be working on 
it as soon as possible.


I know you have been working on this (cf. occurrences in "Board of 
Directors Meeting 2021-03-12" and even back from the days Marina was at 
the board), I'm just mentioning that instead of reinventing the wheel 
for that part, we just could use this joint/collective effort:

https://www.contributor-covenant.org/


Thanks for the heads up. I'm sure this is sound material to evaluate.

Cheers,
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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[William Gathoye (LibreOffice)]

On 23/03/2021 22:18, Marina Latini wrote:


Agree, what happened is unbelievable and TDF should take distance.


Also, this RMS situation is the perfect timing to have/enforce a proper 
contributor agreement/code of conduct/manifesto/call-it-what-you-want-to 
agreement without the need to reinvent the wheel.


I know you have been working on this (cf. occurrences in "Board of 
Directors Meeting 2021-03-12" and even back from the days Marina was at 
the board), I'm just mentioning that instead of reinventing the wheel 
for that part, we just could use this joint/collective effort:

https://www.contributor-covenant.org/
signed by a bunch of (well-known) orgs since 2014 (which could add 
additional visibility to our project).


Don't understand the need for reinventing the wheel for that part here, 
**except to** add our additional values related to FOSS office suites, 
ODF and other TDF call to actions described here [1] and there [2].


[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Next_Decade_Manifesto
[2] cf. TDF initial statutes

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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[William Gathoye (LibreOffice)]

On 23/03/2021 22:18, Marina Latini wrote:


Agree, what happened is unbelievable and TDF should take distance.


+1 and I would even answer, that I would personally take distance from 
TDF if TDF dodges an answer on that topic (and we should all too). 
Silence gives consent, right?


Views expressed here are my own.


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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Marina Latini]

On 23.03.2021 18:46, Simon Phipps wrote:

Hi Simon, all,


I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board
has demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be
regarded as bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other
organisations[2] are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance,
TDF's Board should also consider removal of FSF from their advisory
board, at least temporarily until it has achieved representative
governance.



Agree, what happened is unbelievable and TDF should take distance.

Marina

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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 05:46:18PM +, Simon Phipps wrote:
> I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board has
> demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be regarded as
> bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other organisations[2]
> are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance, TDF's Board should
> also consider removal of FSF from their advisory board, at least
> temporarily until it has achieved representative governance.

Given recent events, I support this proposal by Simon for TDF to:

- distance itself from FSF at minimum
- and also consider removing FSF from TDFs advisory board immediately

Any entity to make such a deliberate, yet ill-advised, self-defeating
decision that sabotages its own stated goals should not be given a
priviledged position in providing advise to the Document Foundation.

Best,

Bjoern

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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Andreas Mantke]

Am 23.03.21 um 19:11 schrieb Italo Vignoli:
> OSI statement: https://opensource.org/OSI_Response
>
great and consequent statement.

Regards,
Andreas



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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Italo Vignoli]

OSI statement: https://opensource.org/OSI_Response

On 3/23/21 6:46 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board has 
demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be regarded 
as bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other 
organisations[2] are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance, 
TDF's Board should also consider removal of FSF from their advisory 
board, at least temporarily until it has achieved representative 
governance.


S.


[1] https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1374399897558917128?s=20 

[2] https://www.outreachy.org/blog/2021-03-23/fsf-participation-barred/ 



On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 10:08 AM Andreas Mantke > wrote:


Hi,

I read about the change in the board of the FSF, a member of the TDF
Advisory Board:


https://www.zdnet.com/article/richard-m-stallman-returns-to-the-free-software-foundation-board-of-directors/



There are a lot of contributors in the Free Software business, which are
seeing this change toxic for this business.

What's the position of TDF board on this topic? And how to proceed with
the Advisory Board membership?

Regards,
Andreas



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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Simon Phipps]

I'll be more direct than Andreas in this matter. Given the FSF Board has
demonstrated[1] that it is aware that reappointing RMS would be regarded as
bad judgement by everyone at LibrePlanet, and given other organisations[2]
are choosing to disconnect FSF from their governance, TDF's Board should
also consider removal of FSF from their advisory board, at least
temporarily until it has achieved representative governance.

S.


[1] https://twitter.com/fsf/status/1374399897558917128?s=20
[2] https://www.outreachy.org/blog/2021-03-23/fsf-participation-barred/

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 10:08 AM Andreas Mantke  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I read about the change in the board of the FSF, a member of the TDF
> Advisory Board:
>
>
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/richard-m-stallman-returns-to-the-free-software-foundation-board-of-directors/
>
> There are a lot of contributors in the Free Software business, which are
> seeing this change toxic for this business.
>
> What's the position of TDF board on this topic? And how to proceed with
> the Advisory Board membership?
>
> Regards,
> Andreas
>
>
>
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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Michael, all,

Am 23.03.21 um 12:11 schrieb Michael Meeks:
> Hi Andreas,
>
> On 23/03/2021 10:07, Andreas Mantke wrote:
>> What's the position of TDF board on this topic ?
>   As you know this sort of question is a very easy one to ask but as with
> anything where there are a wide diversity of opinions - tends to be an
> extraordinarily expensive one to answer in terms of board time.
>
and could be extraordinary expensive for TDF and it's ecosystem, if TDF
dodge an answer.

Regards,
Andreas




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Re: [board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Andreas,

On 23/03/2021 10:07, Andreas Mantke wrote:
> What's the position of TDF board on this topic ?

As you know this sort of question is a very easy one to ask but as with
anything where there are a wide diversity of opinions - tends to be an
extraordinarily expensive one to answer in terms of board time.

Regards,

Michael.

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[board-discuss] CANCELLATION of Friday's board call

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

the next regular board call on Friday, March 26, has been CANCELLED, as 
there are no agenda items.


The next planned public board call is two weeks after this date, on 
Friday, April 9.


Florian

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[board-discuss] TDF Advisory Board Members

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi,

I read about the change in the board of the FSF, a member of the TDF
Advisory Board:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/richard-m-stallman-returns-to-the-free-software-foundation-board-of-directors/

There are a lot of contributors in the Free Software business, which are
seeing this change toxic for this business.

What's the position of TDF board on this topic? And how to proceed with
the Advisory Board membership?

Regards,
Andreas



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