To be effective at growing the pool of Perl programmers I think Perl
needs to be used in a general course that isn't specifically about Perl
or some specialty that is already well entrenched with Perl.
Exactly. The wolf book would make an excellent text-book for a beginner's
guide to algorythms
Here, here...
The perl community already has a certification that matters and would
convince any PHB that the person they were hiring was a good candidate.
The Perl Advocacy question is a separate one for reasons I will show
below. In short our current certification goes like this,
hi
( 05.02.28 21:07 -0500 ) James Linden Rose, III:
However Mr. Shwartz's model of the problem does not reflect majority
opinion with respect to the breadth of the issue, (especially as it
seems to be peppered with idealism and anti-capitalism).
whoa- idealism and anti-capitalism
smells like
On Monday, February 28, 2005, at 10:54 PM, Ben Tilly wrote:
In an interview what you just said would make me worried. You're
using a technique that you don't understand.
Interesting that you've imagined yourself in a position to be
interviewing me. Not a very likely scenario though.
If people have more to add to the discussion on certification, please stay
on topic and cease the personal attacks.
Ronald
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First, I would like to compliment and express broad general agreement with
everything James Freeman said in his response to the following message.
Second, I would like to express specific agreement with Adam Turoff's
expression of the crux of the problem.
Expressing agreement takes much less
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sean, old boy, I'm astounded. Are you not aware that I've been doing
exactly this using emacs? Daily? For more than 20 years now? It's
called find-tag . . .
For the less Emacs-savvy, the speedbar package may be ideal. It shows
the functions
I like bananas and have been using the Ook programming language
and Ook# .Net framework for a large number of corporate
projects. For example, since the phone conversations of many
younger teenagers probably consists of apeish grunts, it is
entirely logical to write cell phone applications in a
I like bananas and have been using the Ook programming language
and Ook# .Net framework for a large number of corporate
projects. For example, since the phone conversations of many
younger teenagers probably consists of apeish grunts, it is
entirely logical to write cell phone applications in a
Can someone remind me why Perl needs to be more popular? What actual
problem will be solved? Are we running low on module developers? Running
low on core developers? Is the existing code-base evaporating? Are there
not enough t-shirt and book sales? How will we know when Perl is popular
I think we're still getting ahead of ourselves here. YES, we are all Perl
programmers and love Perl. That doesn't mean we have to see eye-to-eye on
ANYTHING else. It'd be nice. But who are we kidding. We're all
different. I bring this up to help wash over some of these extraneous
issues:
But then, you can't invoke Godwin deliberately, can you?
Wasn't mentioning [implicitly, national] socialism close enough?
No?
Damn.
--
Chris Devers, fascinated just how many thousands of words this thread
has produced, and yet managed to clarify exactly nothing while doing so
See, now we're talking
Alex Brelsfoard wrote:
What about a website advertising scheme? Make a really
neat/interesting/technological website based out of Perl and then see if
we could get some companies to advertsie it (such as O'Reilly, Apache,
and
Google)?
Why make something that
When it comes to large companies, that real estate becomes
valuable territory and they're not going to donate it for free.
The technology you use is an internal decision. It has no
relevance to the customer. What is the business case for
putting it out there? If you're going to ruin your
Right. The horse is dead. Please stop beating it.
Dear Ronald, as our fearless leader
will you please ask everyone to stop all these threads
on certification and advocacy.
Now I know why there are literally millions of matches in Google.
This topic draws in people like flies to
Adam Turoff wrote:
- Another reason why Perl is a minority language is that it's not
used in academic curricula.
An interesting point.
Sean Quinlan writes:
I agree. I'd love to hear suggestions how to work on that. We teach some
Perl at BU, both under the bioinformatics
5. Clean up CPAN. The egalitarian nature of CPAN is commendable.
However, quality and activity vary widely and redundancy is rampant. A
baitPerhaps we should require people to hold certifications before they
contribute code./
You are right about CPAN. CPAN's hugeness and uneven quality is
Strictly speaking I don't think advertisement did much for Java. Sure,
you see lots of ads for Java related products now, which maintains a
high visibility for Java, but they exist because the Java market exists.
Sure it did. Again, we're talking more about managers and boss types.
When a
hi
( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
did free (or low cost) online certification?
what if you did that.
What it requires is a community spirit,
and a little bit of generousity from its
members to grant it the possibility of being.
i
John Saylor said:
hi
( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
did free (or low cost) online certification?
what if you did that.
brilliant. Rather than focus on the goal,
shift focus on how impossible it appears
to get there. never mind
hi
( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
did free (or low cost) online certification?
John Saylor said:
what if you did that.
( 05.03.01 15:59 -0500 ) Greg London:
brilliant. Rather than focus on the goal,
shift focus on how
The crux of the problem, is that these questions aren't getting answered:
- Can we create a certification that will deliver benefits X, Y and Z?
Yes. No one said it would be easy or happen tomorrow.
- Is certification a necessary precondition for X, Y and Z?
- Aren't problems X', Y'
John Saylor wrote:
( 05.03.01 14:21 -0500 ) Greg London:
What if O'Reilley (or someone) set up a website that
did free (or low cost) online certification?
John Saylor said:
what if you did that.
( 05.03.01 15:59 -0500 ) Greg London:
brilliant. Rather than focus on the goal,
Does anyone know of an alternative to the package listing for perl
versions that used to be on perldoc.com? Perldoc.com has been
unreachable for a couple of weeks now. I used it quite a bit to
determine what modules I needed for specific versions of perl for
software distributions, and it's a
On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 12:22:47AM -0500, Grant M. wrote:
Does anyone know of an alternative to the package listing for perl
versions that used to be on perldoc.com? Perldoc.com has been
unreachable for a couple of weeks now. I used it quite a bit to
determine what modules I needed for
Jesse Vincent wrote:
you mean something like Module::CoreList?
Yes, I mean Module::CoreList ;-).
Thanks, that'll do it.
Grant M.
--
Grant M.
NeonEdge...Web Pages by Design
http://www.neonedge.com/
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Most long time Perl programmers will scoff at IDEs, but the lack of
tools is part of the problem of Perl not being accepted by the corporate
IT community. Of course it is also a catch-22. Without a critical mass
of users, there isn't a financial incentive for companies to develop
such tools.
I'm sorry everyone.
When I first brought up the question of certification I was really just
looking for a way to communicate to people who don't know anything about
Perl.
I love Perl. I think it can and does do some wonderful things. When I
heard the sad story of someone arguing with his
Alex Brelsfoard said:
I'm sorry everyone.
Alex, you of all people have done nothing to apologize for.
You wanted to find a way to make Perl more widely accepted.
Had the conversation been allowed to takes its natural
course, it might have petered out quickly or it might
have come up with a
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:02:08 -0500, Adam Turoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 03:39:30PM -0500, Gyepi SAM wrote:
It must be: I am using LISP, after a long hiatus, and really liking it. I
simply did not appreciate its power upon introduction six years ago.
Yep. I never
On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 03:16:06PM -0500, Duane Bronson wrote:
Is there a CPAN distribution just as there are Linux distributions?
In other words, a collection of CPAN modules that one can install as a
bundle rather than having to use the perl -MCPAN install
module_that_wont_compile?
--- Ben Tilly mumbled on 2005-03-01 14.56.51 -0800 ---
Here's an explanation of the Y-Combinator. It won't work in
Perl because Perl doesn't do lexical binding of input
parameters. JavaScript does and most should know that, so
I'll do it in JavaScript.
Also see The Little JavaScripter:
Sean Quinlan said:
OK. Please bear with me as I think while I type (brainstorm). How many
under-employed Perl Mongers do we have in the Boston area who would be
willing to semi-volunteer?
Suggestions? Would anyone be interested in participating in this?
I did three in-house training
Is there a CPAN distribution just as there are Linux
distributions?
In other words, a collection of CPAN modules that one can install as a
bundle rather than
] I don't know of any CPAN distributions.
CPAN the library has a few bundles that are Bundles.
CPANPLUS the Module will do the
Hello Uri,
I have a bookish request: does anybody have an editorial contact at
O'Reilly I can exchange a few ideas with? I am cooking a proposal
for them and I need a few tips here and there.
BT I'd start with http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/intro.html.
been there, done
FL == Federico Lucifredi [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
BT I'd start with http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/author/intro.html.
FL been there, done that. What I need is someone to talk to *before*
FL I send them the proposal, hence my hope someone might have an
FL editor's email.
and
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 18:01:13 -0500, Gyepi SAM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Mar 01, 2005 at 03:16:06PM -0500, Duane Bronson wrote:
[...]
I don't know of any CPAN distributions. However, if you are on an RPM based
system, you might try my ovid program
On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 23:35:40 +, Federico Lucifredi
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Uri,
I have a bookish request: does anybody have an editorial contact at
O'Reilly I can exchange a few ideas with? I am cooking a proposal
for them and I need a few tips here and there.
BT
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:55:58 -0600 (CST), Alex Brelsfoard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My impression is that the language which is making the most
inroads on traditional Perl areas is PHP. Is that because of the
wonderful certifications that PHP has which Perl doesn't? Or is
it because PHP is
Greg London said:
After that, I wrote Impatient Perl as an attempt to
create a teach-yourself-perl-in-N-days book.
It's about 130 pages long. Still an intro to perl,
but takes the student/reader all teh way to
object oriented programming and advanced regular
expressions.
It's licensed
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