Republicans in Denial

2004-10-23 Thread Doug Pensinger
http://www.pipa.org/ Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments, One of the reasons that Bush supporters have these beliefs is that they perceive the Bush administration confirming them. Interestingly, this is one point on which Bush and Kerry supporters agree. Eighty-two percent of Bush

Brin: The Scottish Enlightenment

2004-10-23 Thread Doug Pensinger
This New Yorker article by David Denby has bearing on some of the earlier discussions on philosophy and the enlightenment. (David)Hume, perhaps the most thoroughgoing skeptic in the history of philosophy, believed that religion is a portrait not of how the cosmos works but of how the human

Re: From the Guardian

2004-10-23 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: It probably closely approximates the view of the median BBC employee, for example) of those in the left, particularly the European left, who genuinely do wish the US ill, and the fact that they oppose the President _does_ make me more likely to vote for him. No matter what the

Re: And in other news...

2004-10-21 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: Doug, I am interested to know that you now consider Pat Robertson to be a reliable source. Maybe you are going to start listening to what Pat Robertson has to say about salvation as well? If Alex Rodriguez tells a reporter that he thinks that Pedro is a dick, we all take it with a

Re: Baseball

2004-10-20 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 21:26:08 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Jim Sharkey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it's top of the fourth. This could go down as one of the all-time great choke jobs. If the Yankees lose tonight, I may have to drive in to work instead of taking the

One Flu over the Cookoo's Nest

2004-10-20 Thread Doug Pensinger
Think the shortage of flu vaccine is just bad luck? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18795-2004Oct8.html Britain: U.S. Told Of Vaccine Shortage LONDON, Oct. 8 -- British health officials said Friday that their American counterparts were informed in mid-September that problems at a

Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-15 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: Geez, Doug, don't elevate the stakes here. First (you mentioned the draft, which I snipped, sorry) we certainly don't need a draft to put another, say, 100,000 troops in Iraq (which would put us at about 250,000, which is where we need to be). It is within the capacity of the US

Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-15 Thread Doug Pensinger
Damon wrote: How do we win that war, John? It's a war of attrition that we're loosing badly right now. Somewhat inexact. Allied forces in all likelihood outnumber the insurgents several times over, while maintaining high kill ratios to casualties. But the war in Iraq is not won with military

Re: Scouted: Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities

2004-10-15 Thread Doug Pensinger
David wrote: Maybe it's just me, but this answer strikes me as somehow missing the point, or trying to be a smart-alek. That's Alberto. 8^) Allow me to restate John's question as a request: Please post more information or a link to more information. I'd be interested too, I am having trouble

Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-15 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: You should ask the people of Samarra how badly we're losing it right now. First a diversion, unrelated to the question. I can tell you how we don't win the war on Islamic terror - that is by leaving in place economic sanctions that inflamed Arab resentment against the United States

Re: Kerry on Iraq in the 2nd Debate

2004-10-15 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: The only acolyte is the one who can't see the flip-flop here: KERRY: Well, let me tell you straight up: I've never changed my mind about Iraq. I do believe Saddam Hussein was a threat. I always believed he was a threat. Believed it in 1998 when Clinton was president. I wanted to

Re: John Edwards: John Kerry is Jesus

2004-10-15 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: What the hell is wrong with these people? I agree that the statement was crass; typical campaign hyperbole that neither side is innocent of, but his remarks are minor in signifigance when compared to the subtrafuge the Bush administration used to goad the Nation and its allies to

Another Warped World View

2004-10-14 Thread Doug Pensinger
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237349/ STOCKHOLM, Sweden - Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix said on Wednesday the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq had failed tragically in its aim of making the world a safer place and succeeded only in stimulating terrorism. -- Doug

Re: Kerry on Iraq in the 2nd Debate

2004-10-14 Thread Doug Pensinger
John wrote: So, do you think Kerry wants to threaten the use of force against Iran? You are a true Bush acolyte, John. Take the words of your opponent out of context to make him sound like a flip flopper, and then change the subject when your artifice is exposed. As far as threats go, no

Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-14 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: This is absurd. I can just imagine the Russians - who think the largest long-term threat to their security is the Chinese - the Chinese, who are dependent on a $150BB trade surplus with the US - and the EU, which is over any significant period of time going to be absorbed by its

Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-14 Thread Doug Pensinger
John wrote: The difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party is this - the Republicans overwhelming believe in the merits of the Iraq War, and the Iraq War would never have happened under the Democrats. If you believe, as I do, that Iraq is the central front in the War on

Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-14 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: Facts, again. I believe that the ratio of senior officers who have publicly pledged their support to the Bush Administration to that supporting Kerry is well over 2:1. Kerry is very, very, very unpopular in the military, to put it mildly. I'll bet Bush is very unpopular with the

Re: India Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-14 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: unlike you or anyone else on this list, I did that knowing there's a good chance there could be adverse professional consequences for me for saying something like that in public. I wouldn't be so sure about that, my friend. -- Doug ___

Re: India Re: Brin: W and the apocalypts

2004-10-14 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: I must differ with you on this, Doug. Gautam is showing his intellectual honesty and willingness to speak the truth as he sees it, no matter how inconvenient that is. That certainly hurts his chances at a career in politicseven though it is a virtue. :-) I wasn't doubting his

The prophetic speedometer of end-time activity

2004-10-13 Thread Doug Pensinger
http://www.raptureme.com/rap2.html Yikes! Liberalism is at 3 Also see http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html We can laugh at these people, but we should not dismiss them. That their beliefs are bonkers does not mean they are marginal. American pollsters believe that

Re: This World In Arms

2004-10-03 Thread Doug Pensinger
John wrote: Of course you were. The following quote: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is

Re: Bush Blows Debate: Talks to Rove in Earpiece!

2004-10-03 Thread Doug Pensinger
Erik wrote: On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 04:37:38PM -0500, Robert G. Seeberger wrote: http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=3562 During the Presidential Debate Bush made what may be his most costly error- he exposed that hes using an earpiece to help him answer debate questions. In the middle

Re: This World In Arms

2004-10-02 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:31:08 -0400, John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:19 PM 10/2/2004 -0700 Dave Land wrote: Republicans were different then. Ahem. As were Democrats. The difference being that the Dems are _better_ now. -- Doug IMO, of course.

Re: Brin: Re: The opinion of heaven?

2004-10-02 Thread Doug Pensinger
John wrote: As for lecturing me about schaedenfreude. again, it is your fearless leader who openly supports an idological movement that officially looks forward to 150,000 people getting a special pass to heaven, then millions suffering in a pre-ordained stage show battle, and the BILLIONS being

Re: This World In Arms

2004-10-02 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:05:09 -0400, John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:20 PM 10/2/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:31:08 -0400, John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:19 PM 10/2/2004 -0700 Dave Land wrote: Republicans were different then. Ahem

Re: Strike Zone

2004-10-01 Thread Doug Pensinger
Erik wrote: On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 07:01:59PM -0700, Doug Pensinger wrote: It would be simple to have a player database with each player's exact dimensions. It would be simple, IF everyone agreed on the player's dimensions. As I said, the problem is NOT technology, it is agreement on the strike

Re: Debate

2004-10-01 Thread Doug Pensinger
Alberto wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: How many watched tonight? I did! But it didn't change my vote, because the alternatives to Cesar Maia are even worse than him. Alberto Monteiro wtf is he talking about? What, you don't like Crivella¹? Sorry, Alberto, I shouldn't assume that our international

Debate

2004-09-30 Thread Doug Pensinger
How many watched tonight? You all know I'm slightly biased, but I think W got trounced and Kerry rescued his campaign. Thank goodness, I think we've still got a fighting chance. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Debate

2004-09-30 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:15:16 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many watched tonight? You all know I'm slightly biased, but I think W got trounced and Kerry rescued his campaign. Thank goodness, I think we've still got a fighting

Re: Strike Zone

2004-09-28 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:06:52 -0400, Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 09:38:42PM -0400, Bryon Daly wrote: My guess is the system uses the side cameras to analyze the batter's stance and pick out notable points like overall height, the elbow and shoulder heights and

Warped World View

2004-09-28 Thread Doug Pensinger
[http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/politics/28intel.html?hp] http://tinyurl.com/5thk5 Prewar Assessment on Iraq Saw Chance of Strong Divisions The estimate came in two classified reports prepared for President Bush in January 2003 by the National Intelligence Council, an independent group that

Re: Productivity Re: Br!n: some thoughts and quotes.

2004-09-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 14:58:50 -0400, Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 12:34:14PM -0400, John D. Giorgis wrote: The second part, is, of course, correct. Whenever there are diminishing marginal returns to labor, laying off a worker will increase productivity. But make

Re: Productivity Re: Br!n: some thoughts and quotes.

2004-09-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 16:35:25 -0500, Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its not horrible now, but the signs for the future are not good. The tax cut, which is focused on the upper income tax payer, should exasperate the problem. exacerbate -- Doug can't help myself...

Re: Cat Stevens the Terrorist

2004-09-21 Thread Doug Pensinger
Robert wrote: Anyone have any idea why Cat Stevens is verboten? Don't know, but I'm on the road to find out. -- Doug And I'm being followed by a moonshadow. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Bush, Blair take hits over Iraq

2004-09-20 Thread Doug Pensinger
Has anyone else noticed the resemblance between the Bush administration's rosy view of events in Iraq and the proclamations of Sadam's information minister as American troops closed in on Baghdad? [http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0920/dailyUpdate.html?s=ent2] or http://tinyurl.com/5b2tt Monday's

Re: Cat Missing :-(

2004-09-18 Thread Doug Pensinger
Deborah wrote: He was a good cat, charming anyone who stopped to notice him, providing warmth and purrs on cold winter days, and turning into an impressive mouser. I hope aganst all odds he comes home Debbie, I feel your loss. We're back up to two dogs having adopted a year old boxer, and we're

Re: Br!n: some thoughts and quotes.Part 3

2004-09-18 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: Hehe. I expressed a desire (to my _Mom_) to at least once in my life be described as an evil genius a couple of weeks ago. Evil, maybe. Genius, no way. G -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

ATL Win2k Passwords

2004-09-18 Thread Doug Pensinger
My son had not used his computer for several months, and when he went to use it, what he thought was the password didn't work. He's tried just about everything and can't log back on. Does anyone know if there's a way to reset the password or what he needs to do to get back on? Thanks, --

Re: Br!n: some thoughts and quotes.

2004-09-18 Thread Doug Pensinger
Julia wrote: Gautam wrote: So I look at Bush and think - this guy is a D- President. And I look at Kerry and think, this guy _wants to be_ an F President. So who do I vote for? I honestly have no idea. Well, there's always Nader, if he made it onto your ballot, and the Libertarian candidate

Re: Br!n: some thoughts and quotes.

2004-09-17 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: No. I'm saying its wrong to single out discount stores. But Walmart has some 60% of the discount store market, Dan. For most intents an purposes, Walmart _is_ the discount store industry. Smaller stores that don't follow their lead are doomed. I appreciate the data you gave me,

Re: Br!n: some thoughts and quotes.

2004-09-17 Thread Doug Pensinger
OI wrote: And isn't Texas one of the worst states in terms of workers that don't have health care? Check out page 69 of the first PDF referenced on this page ( Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2003. http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p60-226.pdf Texas has

Re: Brin: political balance

2004-09-16 Thread Doug Pensinger
David Brin wrote: THESE are the monsters of the moment, John. When commies come back, I will fight them too. Perhaps part of John's difficulty with understanding your concept of balance is one of perspective. The U.S. has been on a conservative swing for over two decades now, and is probably

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: Lastly, in regards to Saudi Arabia - I agree with you that Saudi Arabia is a real problam. I think, however, that it would have been suicidal to American interests to apply pressure to the Saudi regime so long as Saddam Hussein remained in power. Quite simply, one Party is for

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: It was a clear misspeak and retracted immediately. I am sure that you have never misspoken... just like you would never question the patriotism of *your* political opponents. It was not a misstatement, he was speaking his mind and in fact agree with his logic (and not with Kerry's.)

Re: Groveling Apologies

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
Travis wrote: laughing Reminds me of Jeffrey Miller - former list member - and his little quote of - I love being inconsequential, it takes all the responsibility off me. Ahem. He's actually still here and carrying his share. -- Doug ___

Re: Groveling Apologies

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
Bryon wrote: I was just thinking about Chad also... Are you still around, Chad? How are you doing? Ronn is the one I was wondering about - did he go on a long vacation? -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:09:32 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:45 AM 9/11/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: Maybe if they nuked NYC _and_ DC? That's a low blow. :-( Sorry. I see what you mean, but that's not how I meant it. Those are just the two most likely targets, IMO. -- Doug

Re: tragic coincidence or commupance?

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: Still, she was at least nominall a Democrat - which hardly supports the theory of a Republican conspiracy to, quote, cheat. Sounds like the ultimate cheat to me; switch parties in order to influence the election from the inside. -- Doug ___

Re: tragic coincidence or commupance?

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: At 01:19 PM 9/11/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: Still, she was at least nominall a Democrat - which hardly supports the theory of a Republican conspiracy to, quote, cheat. Sounds like the ultimate cheat to me; switch parties in order to influence the election from the inside. Its

Re: tragic coincidence or commupance?

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: Doug, you've now changed the subject. None of your links has anything to do with a conspiracy involving the Palm Beach County Board of elections. Heck, Dionne's column didn't even alledge fraud of any sort! The common theme you apparently missed was that the Republican party has a

Re: tragic coincidence or commupance?

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
Robert wrote: If W were not president, Jeb would likely be in jail now. And if Jeb had not been Governor, Shrub would likely be back to putting companies out of business by now. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: tragic coincidence or commupance?

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: As opposed to the Sainted Democrats, of course, who have no history of illegal election activity. The Democrats may have competed, but the GOP's won all the medals. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: tragic coincidence or commupance?

2004-09-11 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:07:04 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Democrats may have competed, but the GOP's won all the medals. -- Doug Doug, that's absurd. Speaking purely as an historical point, that's a ludicrous statement

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-07 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: At 06:55 PM 9/6/2004 -0700 Doug Pensinger wrote: That presumes a cover-up. It doesn't presume a cover up. It presumes what Grahm says is true. If it's true then there _is_ a cover up. So prove him wrong. Uh yeah that's what I said. If, however, what Graham is saying

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-06 Thread Doug Pensinger
Robert wrote: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9584265.htm Two of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers had a support network in the United States that included agents of the Saudi government, and the Bush administration and FBI blocked a congressional investigation into that relationship, Sen. Bob

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-06 Thread Doug Pensinger
Robert wrote: Two of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers had a support network in the United States that included agents of the Saudi government, and the Bush administration and FBI blocked a congressional investigation into that relationship, Sen. Bob Graham wrote in a book to be released Tuesday. IMO

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-06 Thread Doug Pensinger
William wrote: Which enemy? (There must be a pun about enemas in there somewhere...) Well, the only way we're likely to get aid and comfort in the coming years is to give the executive branch a double dose of barium up the old wazoo, but the Saudi thing goes beyond mere politics. If the

Re: Which beliefs are labled real; which are labled figments

2004-09-06 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: But, that is totally dependant on mindset; not data. For example, the complexity of nature was long thought to be a compelling argument for a designer. We now realize that there is another explanation that works as well. The complex actions of human beings was long thought to be

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-06 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: This is aid and comfort to the enemy, IMO. Not that you would *ever* question the patriotism of _your_ political opponents. JDG - Uh huh, Maru OK, John, justify the cover up. Please. -- Doug ___

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-06 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: That presumes a cover-up. It doesn't presume a cover up. It presumes what Grahm says is true. If it's true then there _is_ a cover up. So prove him wrong. All I am pointing out, Doug, is that you have been the *most sensitive* and the *loudest* person on this List to any perceived

Re: Graham book: Inquiry into 9/11, Saudi ties blocked

2004-09-06 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: Winning this war motivates every decision with regards to terrorism alerts and counter-intelligence that is made.And anyone who thinks otherwise has a particularly craven view of politics. I guess you didn't hear that he said the war wasn't winnable the other day. No time for a

George W. Bush's missing year

2004-09-04 Thread Doug Pensinger
Salon http://tinyurl.com/4gjhc Linda Allison's story, never before published, contradicts the Bush campaign's assertion that George W. Bush transferred from the Texas Air National Guard to the Alabama National Guard in 1972 because he received an irresistible offer to gain high-level experience

Re: Privately funded medical research is evil, why it must be eradicated [was: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style]

2004-09-01 Thread Doug Pensinger
Erik wrote: Bullshit. Sure the secrecy Nazi's may want you to sew your lip shut and never talk again, but in reality, they can't stop you as long as you don't reveal secret information, and it is certainly possible to write a short email without having any possibility of revealing secrets. Jane's

Re: Privately funded medical research is evil, why it must be eradicated [was...

2004-09-01 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:09:33 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How will govenments that inhibit stem cell research be viewed? Poorly, I imagine. I don't support this particular position of the President's. Although the apparent Democratic

Re: Killings, evil and pictures to assure accountabillity was, Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

2004-08-31 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: I realize that this involves a switch in worldview because most of us were taught a convenient fiction in school. I certainly believed that the Nazi's had a police state, even for the Ayrians, from the start. I thought the Holocaust was very secret. But now, I accept the evidence

Re: Privately funded medical research is evil, why it must be eradicated [was: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style]

2004-08-31 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: BTW, I got why he couldn't talk even about common knowledge from the beginning. At Teleco, we knew when our VPs knew something because they would stop talking about subjects that they talked about before. We knew what was going on, and respected them for it. When you hold a government

Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

2004-08-31 Thread Doug Pensinger
Warren wrote: That is, I don't think you can have an I in a vacuum. In fact, I think your I's pop right out in a vacuum... -- Doug headed for the hills ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: JDG-Type ...Fool, this is out-of-line.

2004-08-30 Thread Doug Pensinger
David Hobby wrote: The Fool wrote: ghostpost snipped Let's NOT have a flamewar with the TITLES of our posts? Seconded. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style

2004-08-30 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: If the rest of the world can be alienated by liberating Iraq, I am not at all convinced that they would not be alienated by efforts to tackle AIDS in African countries. Indeed, given that Iraq has now been liberated, and the rest of the world is actively bot just sitting on their

Re: More on AIDS

2004-08-30 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: 1) You supplied several pages of hagiography on Clinton's AIDS policy - i.e. almost all positive, hardly a negative word to be found. 2) You then submitted the same group's AIDS reportcord of the Bush Presidency, which included 100% below-average to failing marks. It seems nearly

Re: thinking about free will

2004-08-30 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: Reading through this post, it seems as though it might be interpreted as being written from antagonistic viewpoint. That is not my viewpoint. It is more in the nature of exploring axioms sets to look for inconsistencies and theorems that can be derived from them. It doesn't sound

Re: More on AIDS

2004-08-29 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: The astounding chutzpah to imply that Bush has somehow drastically deteriotaed AIDS policy from the golden age they had under Clinton utterly discredits this source. Can you substantiate that statement? Your quotes remind me of the National Parks Conservation Association, who amazingly

Re: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style

2004-08-28 Thread Doug Pensinger
William wrote: Not a Catholic today then? Even here in the U.S., four out of five Catholics belive that it's OK to use birth control. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style

2004-08-28 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: And that you absolutely despise the first American President to even attempt to do something about the problem. It's a special kind of tunnel vision that Bush supporters have, isn't it? http://www.thebody.com/whitehouse/wad2000.html Today, President Clinton will join international

More on AIDS

2004-08-28 Thread Doug Pensinger
The Clinton Record: http://www.thebody.com/hhs/clinton.html or http://tinyurl.com/3w6ed The Clinton Administration has responded aggressively to the significant threat posed by HIV/AIDS with increased attention to research, prevention, and treatment. Overall funding for AIDS-related programs

Re: thinking about free will

2004-08-28 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: Well, that's kind of what I was trying to say - that it doesn't really matter weather or not we really have free will until someone is able to prove otherwise What type of proof are you talking about? Absolute, or proof, given a few reasonable assumptions. Proof would be the ability

thinking about free will

2004-08-27 Thread Doug Pensinger
Bryon wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, but as I see it, the question is whether everything a person does, are all choices made purely a function of his biology, society, environment, etc, or is it real choice? Are we more than the sum of our inputs? I think that while it's possible (probable?) that we

(no subject)

2004-08-27 Thread Doug Pensinger
William wrote: Bryon wrote: or is it real choice? the same as that? Why do you think there are two different things? Well, as you are aware, some people believe there is an omnipotent being that could control all the factors composing that choice. If such a being exists, there can be no real

thinking about free will

2004-08-27 Thread Doug Pensinger
Sorry, I have to copy messages from the archives because I'm not receiving them all and I forgot to copy the subject line. William wrote: Bryon wrote: or is it real choice? the same as that? Why do you think there are two different things? Well, as you are aware, some people believe there is an

Re: thinking about free will

2004-08-27 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:13:36 -0400, Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 04:47:32PM -0500, Dan Minette wrote: Free will, pretty well be definition, means that it is possible to make Except you don't have a useful definition of free will, as you well know. Is there a

Re: thinking about free will

2004-08-27 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: If that makes it virtually indistinguishable, then, photons also have free will in the same sense that we dobecause we cannot in principal, predict where they hit. We only give probabilities, but we can measure with enough precision to in the same manner that humans do? Photons

Re: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style

2004-08-27 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:34:18 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or how about being passive in the decades of sufferings of Iraqis under Saddam Hussein? It's of course worth mentioning that AIDS kills as many people in a couple of years as Hussein did in his entire tenure (and no less

Re: Fascist Censorship Spreads: Vichy Style

2004-08-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: I cannot point to the gene for free will any more than I can point to the gene for reflective self-awareness. :-) But isn't the evidence for reflective self-awareness in humans much more compelling than the evidence against free will in pumas? -- Doug

Ethics

2004-08-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
It seems eminently logical to me that ethics evolved in part as a survival mechanism for those that had a physical disadvantage and an intellectual advantage. For instance, a shaman that convinced his community that the spirits punished those who killed their spiritual leaders would stand a

Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

2004-08-26 Thread Doug Pensinger
Warren wrote: zim wrote: Rape is favored in some sense in that males who have little or no chance of non-coercive copulation can procreate through rape. This is similar to what Dan mentioned about Ghengis Khan -- but it's still disseminating genes, not actually changing a species. At best rape

Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

2004-08-19 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: Doug, I think there is a huge difference between the religious attitudes of Brin-L members vs. Brin-L posts. Quite simply, this List is consistently bombarded with a plethora of anti-religious, anti-Christian, and yes, anti-Catholic posts. For whatever reason, very few people,

Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

2004-08-19 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: As for bigotry in America, put yourself in the shoes of an non-believer for a moment and you'll feel real bigotry. Out of curiosity, are you actually told that you are deluded, have a mental block, evil on a daily basis because you don't believe? Read the posts here straight. The

Re: [Listref] The Michael Moore Story

2004-08-19 Thread Doug Pensinger
Gautam wrote: Worth mentioning a few famous Michael Moore quotes as well: Moore interview the British newspaper The Mirror, speaking about Americans: Sh**, that's nothing compared to this beauty from our president: Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop

Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

2004-08-18 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:56:11 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry... I momentarily had thought you were the *other* Julia in your response.Anyhow, I reacted so forcefully in part because there is a long history of anti-religious, anti-Christian, and anti-Catholic sentiment on this List.

Re: Br!n: Fight The Future: Encrypted Screws

2004-08-13 Thread Doug Pensinger
Julia wrote: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:57:57 -0700, Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It brought back a great memory of the first time I managed to print a sine wave with asterisks on a (30 baud) Teletype. Reminds me of the story of someone who attempted to log into a BBS at 300 baud by

Re: Contraception

2004-08-10 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: It is worth noting that there are an awful lot of 1, 2, and 3-child Catholic families thanks to NFP. It's probably even more worthy to note that there are probably many times more 1 2 and 3 child Catholic families thanks to the pill.

Re: the new Bush ad : I don't see any morphing...

2004-08-10 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: Thus, given that the incredibly insulting allegations of these Democrats have now proven to be demonstrably false in short order, in polite society an apology would be in order. Do you want to apologize for the Republican reaction to Clinton's attempts to go after bin laden

Re: the new Bush ad : I don't see any morphing...

2004-08-09 Thread Doug Pensinger
Dan wrote: Have you looked in the papers to see where the movie is playing in Bush states? I have, but then again I live in one. It didn't play in the Woodlands, but it did play in multi-plexes well into Bush country around Houston...not just the Third Ward. :-) It was playing in every real

Re: What Kerry Did on 9/11

2004-08-07 Thread Doug Pensinger
John wrote: Kudos to Red State for finding that. And for noting: It should be noted that the second plane hit the World Trade Center at 9:03 a.m., and the plane hit the Pentagon at 9:43 a.m. By Kerry's own words, he and his fellow senators sat there for forty minutes, realizing 'nobody could

Re: What Kerry Did on 9/11

2004-08-07 Thread Doug Pensinger
JDG wrote: And isn't Kerry being a little hypocritical to say that he would have done something different were he being paid the big bucks, given his own stated reactions? No. You react much differently to a situation when you have the responsibility for controlling it. Frex, if you are the

Re: Two Convention Thoughts

2004-07-27 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 19:50:22 -0700 (PDT), Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Bill Clinton is _still_ the best in the business. My God, what a genius. His was the only speech I caught, but it left me second guessing the term limit. If he were running this year it would already be over.

Re: Terrorism too close to home...

2004-06-20 Thread Doug Pensinger
Erik wrote: Unless a very large super-majority agrees with you, you would be wrong to do so. You would be taking something that you do not have the right to take. Besides being unjust, it is also likely to be inefficient -- wasting your time on short-term, trivial matters instead of applying

Re: Speaking of Quantum.........

2004-06-18 Thread Doug Pensinger
Ronn! wrote: Was your father a lot older at that age, or was it only mine? Way, way, way older. Ancient. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Speaking of Quantum.........

2004-06-17 Thread Doug Pensinger
Ronn! wrote: What is really bad is that _Star Trek_ is considered an *old* television show . . . So What Does That Make Its Viewers? Maru Turning fifty in about 32 days? -- Doug The Final Frontier Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: The Founders on Separation of Church and State: Washington, Adams, Franklin

2004-06-17 Thread Doug Pensinger
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 21:46:05 -0400, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A pretty selective sampling there, Doug. It's enough to show that the constitution provided a wall of separation in the minds at least some of the more prominent founders. It also neglects the fact, that your reading of the

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