And your point is? I consider the fact that *every* *single* *time* tomcat
crashes (you cannot have null pointer exceptions in java, the books all
said), the stack trace is 150 or 200 calls deep. Show me something written
in C, or C++, or perl, or php, or... that's that bad.
- copy the stack
Greetings,
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:20 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Kwan Lowe wrote:
Um, that COBOL code I fixed?
That reminds me of a structural analysis fortran program into pascal
in dos using expanded/extended memory with disk as virtual memory
without a single goto etc.
Gosh I didn't
On 14/12/10 23:22, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 4:01 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 3:38 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
If you don't like java's verbosity, you might like groovy. You can,
for
OO in general, and java in particular, IMO, is trying to enforce
On 15/12/10 11:02, Rajagopal Swaminathan wrote:
Greetings,
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:20 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Kwan Lowe wrote:
Um, that COBOL code I fixed?
That reminds me of a structural analysis fortran program into pascal
in dos using expanded/extended memory with disk as
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 14:07 +0100, David Sommerseth wrote:
The sql side is easy enough - the point you are missing is that you have
access to any number of jdbc connections/versions at once (say you want
to copy among different database types) and also to anything else
already available
On Monday, December 13, 2010 07:11:40 pm R P Herrold wrote:
One could do ** much worse ** than Lua (the rantings of the
MSFT fanboi here for the patent encumbered kit, not shipped on
CentOS, such as C# come to mind)
Or Intercal, although it's not in the repos.
Which reminds me of my
On 12/15/2010 7:07 AM, David Sommerseth wrote:
The sql side is easy enough - the point you are missing is that you have
access to any number of jdbc connections/versions at once (say you want
to copy among different database types) and also to anything else
already available as a java jar or
Dne 14.12.2010 00:20, Warren Young napsal(a):
Nothing is truly intuitive
in computing. (The only intuitive interface is the nipple.)
As a father of two kids, I can testify that even the nipple is hardly
intuitive. Every kid (and mom) needs to learn how to use it. Just to
clear one myth.
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for my limited brainpower.
What programming
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, cornel panceac wrote:
my first language was pascal. if i'd had the opportunity, i'd start with c.
herbert schildt's teach yourself c was great for me.
Ahh Schildt. Yes, I learnt from that book too. A tad dry, and it tends to
teach you syntax more than real program
From: Sven Aluoor alu...@gmail.com
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for my limited
On 13/12/10 17:32, Lamar Owen wrote:
On Monday, December 13, 2010 11:14:24 am Sven Aluoor wrote:
What programming language should I learn?
Python. You can find useful examples of python code throughout CentOS,
beginning the yum itself. Get yourself a copy of 'Dive into Python' (can be
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Adam Tauno Williams
awill...@whitemice.org wrote:
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 14:49 -0700, Warren Young wrote:
On 12/13/2010 9:37 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/13/2010 10:14 AM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
knip
Perl is probably the easiest next step for someone who has
On 14/12/10 00:20, Warren Young wrote:
On 12/13/2010 3:02 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 14:49 -0700, Warren Young wrote:
C# exists more for political and business
reasons than technical ones; it fills the same space Java could fill, in
a platform-agnostic world.
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:18 AM, David Sommerseth
d...@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
On 13/12/10 17:32, Lamar Owen wrote:
On Monday, December 13, 2010 11:14:24 am Sven Aluoor wrote:
What programming language should I learn?
Python. You can find useful examples of python code throughout
On 14/12/10 05:46, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Sven Aluoor alu...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to
Thanks for all the answers. I try to learn Perl (as suggested by many of you)
cheers Sven
___
CentOS mailing list
CentOS@centos.org
http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Jerry Franz wrote:
Thinking the code belongs to the data just a mental model. One of many
that may be used or not used at need for the exact same code. But
never make the mistake of thinking any of them are The Truth. A good
programmer switches mental models as needed and is not wedded to
Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 4:43 AM, Natxo Asenjo wrote:
Python enforces you to be more consistent, which is not a bad thing if
you want to understand better what you are doing in the very beginning.
Later on Perl, Ruby, C#, Java, C/C++ might be a good alternatives, as
they probably
On 12/14/2010 10:46 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Yup.
snip
yet-another-syntax for config files. But, it is somewhat hard to scale
and maintain because people write in different styles and things that
start small tend to have a lot of global variables that are hard to
remember as the code
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 11:04 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 10:46 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Yup.
snip
yet-another-syntax for config files. But, it is somewhat hard to scale
and maintain because people write in different styles and things that
start small tend to have a lot
On 12/14/2010 1:16 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Personally I've banned Perl from the network primarily because of the
maintenance disaster that is CPAN.
And your perfectly maintained public source of equivalent functionality
is in what language?
But, you should rarely if ever use CPAN
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/14/2010 1:16 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Personally I've banned Perl from the network primarily because of the
maintenance disaster that is CPAN.
And your perfectly maintained public source of equivalent
Kwan Lowe wrote:
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com
wrote:
On 12/14/2010 1:16 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Personally I've banned Perl from the network primarily because of the
maintenance disaster that is CPAN.
And your perfectly maintained public
On 12/14/2010 2:55 PM, Kwan Lowe wrote:
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Les Mikeselllesmikes...@gmail.com wrote:
Personally I've banned Perl from the network primarily because of the
maintenance disaster that is CPAN.
And your perfectly maintained public source of equivalent functionality
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Kwan Lowe kwan.l...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/14/2010 1:16 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Personally I've banned Perl from the network primarily because of the
maintenance disaster that
On 12/14/2010 3:01 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
As to Perl.. though it still is my preferred language for getting
things done (mainly because I understand it that I first think out
problems in Perl then convert to other languages), I have seen some
bad, really bad Perl code..
And your point
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 15:33 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 3:01 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
As to Perl.. though it still is my preferred language for getting
things done (mainly because I understand it that I first think out
problems in Perl then convert to other languages), I
Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 3:01 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
As to Perl.. though it still is my preferred language for getting
things done (mainly because I understand it that I first think out
problems in Perl then convert to other languages), I have seen some
bad, really bad Perl
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-14 at 15:33 -0600, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 3:01 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
As to Perl.. though it still is my preferred language for getting
things done (mainly because I understand it that I first think out
problems in Perl then
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Natxo Asenjo natxo.ase...@gmail.com wrote:
It kind of gets boring to see Perl attacked for no reason. The problem
is: if you do not counter the claims, they show up in Google and then
people will think Perl is bad. So this is why one has to set it
straight.
Kwan Lowe wrote:
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Natxo Asenjo natxo.ase...@gmail.com
wrote:
It kind of gets boring to see Perl attacked for no reason. The problem
snip
As to Perl.. though it still is my preferred language for getting
things done (mainly because I understand it that I first
On 12/14/2010 3:38 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
If you don't like java's verbosity, you might like groovy. You can, for
OO in general, and java in particular, IMO, is trying to enforce good
coding standards by compiler... except, of course, that it doesn't work.
example, print items from a
Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 3:38 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
If you don't like java's verbosity, you might like groovy. You can,
for
OO in general, and java in particular, IMO, is trying to enforce good
coding standards by compiler... except, of course, that it doesn't work.
On 12/14/2010 3:45 PM, Kwan Lowe wrote:
My experience is that the quicker you can get things done in a
language, the more likely that you will find bad code examples. I've
seen Perl code that does a system 'ls' then counts characters in the
string to extract the size information.
But that's
On 12/14/2010 4:01 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/14/2010 3:38 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
If you don't like java's verbosity, you might like groovy. You can,
for
OO in general, and java in particular, IMO, is trying to enforce good
coding standards by compiler...
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:18 AM, David Sommerseth
d...@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
On 13/12/10 17:32, Lamar Owen wrote:
On Monday, December 13, 2010 11:14:24 am Sven Aluoor wrote:
What programming language should I learn?
Python. You can find useful examples of python code throughout
cornel panceac wrote:
my first language was pascal. if i'd had the opportunity, i'd start with c.
herbert schildt's teach yourself c was great for me.
I think C is an excellent place to begin. But try K R
(ISBN-10 0131103628) which is the classic introduction.
Schildt is reviled in the church
2010/12/15 cpol...@surewest.net
cornel panceac wrote:
my first language was pascal. if i'd had the opportunity, i'd start with
c.
herbert schildt's teach yourself c was great for me.
I think C is an excellent place to begin. But try K R
(ISBN-10 0131103628) which is the classic
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for my limited brainpower.
What programming language
I've not used C# - but as I understand it has similar constructs as Java
(and C++)...
What about Java didn't you understand? Trying to understand what you
didn't understand to make a suggestion...
I know, back in the day, I was all about Pascal :)
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Sven Aluoor wrote:
Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for my limited brainpower.
Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for my limited brainpower.
Scot P. Floess wrote:
I've not used C# - but as I understand it has similar constructs as Java
(and C++)...
What about Java didn't you understand? Trying to understand what you
didn't understand to make a suggestion...
I know, back in the day, I was all about Pascal :)
Well, that's why
On Monday, December 13, 2010 11:14:24 am Sven Aluoor wrote:
What programming language should I learn?
Python. You can find useful examples of python code throughout CentOS,
beginning the yum itself. Get yourself a copy of 'Dive into Python' (can be
had as a free download, legalling) and,
On December 13, 2010 08:14:24 am Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too
On 12/13/2010 10:14 AM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 17:14 +0100, Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too
On 12/13/2010 11:37 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/13/2010 10:14 AM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 17:14 +0100, Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand
Ha! Well, I wish I could say my like of Java is related to your
description :) On a side note, I use to make a living with C++ prior to
Java ;)
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Scot P. Floess wrote:
I've not used C# - but as I understand it has similar constructs as Java
On 12/13/2010 08:53 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
snip
And python's the only language to use whitespace as a syntax element
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_%28programming_language%29
But seriously, there are a fair number of (mostly older) languages that
are fairly picky about
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 11:53 -0500, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 17:14 +0100, Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
snip
My only real usability gripe is the craptastic type management, static
typing would be a big improvement. [But pythonista's heads would explode
at having to eat their own dog-food about writing 'self documenting
code'].
Hey, the dogs' food is USDA approved, I
On Monday, December 13, 2010 12:54:35 pm Benjamin Franz wrote:
But seriously, there are a fair number of (mostly older) languages that
are fairly picky about whitespace. I still remember writing FORTRAN.
We still have one application running on a VAXStation 4000 being maintained in
FORTRAN
2010/12/13 Sven Aluoor alu...@gmail.com
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for my
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, A T Williams wrote:
*But* I am the primary developer of a large Python application
http://www.ohloh.net/p/coils [113K lines and growing] and it *is( an
interesting trendlines there [soft economy, or loss of
interest in FOSS oritented languages, I wonder] -- I tinkered
cornel panceac wrote:
2010/12/13 Sven Aluoor alu...@gmail.com
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too
What programming language should I learn?
It depends what you want to do.
- build quickly applications, reusing existing components and
understanding a lot of the Linux ecosystem
= Python
- process quickly huge amount of text files
= Practical Exrtaction and Reporting Language (aka. PERL, yes
On 13/12/10 16:14, Sven Aluoor wrote:
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for my limited
On Monday, December 13, 2010 03:15:48 pm Nick wrote:
This is a bit like saying I have 12 years experience of hunting but I too
myopic to aim a pistol, then asking which firearm should I carry?
To an extent; I read it more along the lines of 'I have 12 years experience
hunting with a scoped
LOL...great analogy..I think the details will be lost on many non firearm
types...but I found it to be a great analogy...:)
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Lamar Owen lo...@pari.edu wrote:
On Monday, December 13, 2010 03:15:48 pm Nick wrote:
This is a bit like saying I have 12 years
On 12/13/2010 9:37 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/13/2010 10:14 AM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
A friend said that C-Sharp (Mono) is very simple. Is this true?
I doubt you'll find it any less complex than Java. The two are very
similar, conceptually. C# exists more for political and business
reasons
On 12/13/2010 05:14 PM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too complicated for
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 14:49 -0700, Warren Young wrote:
On 12/13/2010 9:37 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/13/2010 10:14 AM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
A friend said that C-Sharp (Mono) is very simple. Is this true?
I doubt you'll find it any less complex than Java. The two are very
similar,
Warren Young wrote:
On 12/13/2010 9:37 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/13/2010 10:14 AM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
snip
Your next step should be to something simpler, and with less of a
difference to your existing experience.
Perl is probably the easiest next step for someone who has shell
scripting
Patrick Lists wrote:
On 12/13/2010 05:14 PM, Sven Aluoor wrote:
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
snip
-1 Perl is a withering dinosaur.
snip
I expect by the time P6 arrives very few people will care; Perl has
been fading for a long time.
ROTFLMAO! It'll wither some time after the last COBOL program is
retired... and definitely after java dies with a stake
On 12/13/2010 4:28 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Try perl, you'll like it. We'll ignore the fact that, back in the
nineties, at the end of the 104 or so page man page, the secret was that
it stood for P(athologically) E(clectic) R(ubbish) L(ister)
And if you are going to write anything that
On 12/13/2010 12:08 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
As the thread was for a newbie recommendation, I'd really
consider Ruby before any of the others,
Yes, Ruby can work for much the same reasons I gave for Perl in my
previous post in this thread. I'd say it has a bigger mismatch w.r.t.
shell script
On 12/13/2010 4:32 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
snip
-1 Perl is a withering dinosaur.
snip
I expect by the time P6 arrives very few people will care; Perl has
been fading for a long time.
ROTFLMAO! It'll wither some time after the last COBOL program is
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 05:30:09PM -0500, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Patrick Lists wrote:
Have a look at Lua (www.lua.org). Imo it's quite readable and less
snip
Don't. I have literally never heard of it before, and I at least have
heard of everything else folks have mentioned. Learn something
On 12/13/2010 3:02 PM, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
On Mon, 2010-12-13 at 14:49 -0700, Warren Young wrote:
C# exists more for political and business
reasons than technical ones; it fills the same space Java could fill, in
a platform-agnostic world.
False. C# has significant technical
On 12/13/2010 3:30 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Have a look at Lua (www.lua.org). Imo it's quite readable and less
snip
Don't. I have literally never heard of it before,
It's quite popular in some areas, particularly as an embedded scripting
engine in games.
Having written one substantial
On 12/13/2010 5:20 PM, Warren Young wrote:
Strictness is a *feature*. Especially for someone who wants to
initially learn programming.
The OP already tried that, with Java, and didn't like it.
The argument's bogus anyway. Many experienced programmers want to teach
strictness from the
On 12/13/2010 03:49 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
I doubt if there are a lot that can simultaneously think in procedural
and object concepts, though. Someone who learns that code and data are
different things and that data is not to be trusted will have a hard
time dealing with objects where the
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote:
Have a look at Lua (www.lua.org). Imo it's quite readable and less
snip
Don't. I have literally never heard of it before, and I at least have
heard of everything else folks have mentioned. Learn something that
there's a *large* base of folks who
On 12/13/2010 6:08 PM, Benjamin Franz wrote:
I doubt if there are a lot that can simultaneously think in procedural
and object concepts, though. Someone who learns that code and data are
different things and that data is not to be trusted will have a hard
time dealing with objects where the
On 14 December 2010 03:14, Sven Aluoor alu...@gmail.com wrote:
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:14 AM, Sven Aluoor alu...@gmail.com wrote:
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because it is too
On 12/13/2010 04:16 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
On 12/13/2010 6:08 PM, Benjamin Franz wrote:
I don't know about that. I started on Apple Integer BASIC back in 1980,
dropped to assembly on multiple platforms, and eventually ended up doing
OO style design in Perl in the 90s *before* it officially
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Sven Aluoor alu...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi folks
I have more than 12 years experience with UNIX system administration,
but I am too stupid for programming. My only programming experience is
shell scripting. I tried to learn Java, but don't understand it
because
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