[CentOS-virt] working config for xen which would transfer a serial interface
Hello
Can anyone share a known working config for xen which would
transfer a serial interface ( add-on card preferably, mine uses
e880-e887 : :03:05.0 / ec00-ec07 : :03:05.0 ) to a DomU ?
I've been trying with the stock packages from Centos 5.5 ( fully
updated) and also with gitco's 3.4.3 but after 2 days of googling and
testing we still fail to access the serial interface from DomU.
No matter what we've tried,
- in DomU there is no reference to any kind of serial ports in
/proc/{interrupts,ioports}
- the test program which accesses ttyS0 fails ( it works just fine in
dom0) even after manually loading parport_serial in DomU
/dev/ttyS{0..3} do get created by default, if that matters.
Here is the content of the config file, after the last attempt
(which uses gitco's xen, but we failed similarly with the stock packages):
name = testr
uuid = 57baf51a-e293-fa35-9f2e-056a1c0e322a
maxmem = 512
memory = 512
vcpus = 1
bootloader = /usr/bin/pygrub
on_poweroff = destroy
on_reboot = restart
on_crash = restart
vfb = [ type=vnc,vncunused=1,keymap=en-us ]
disk = [ tap:aio:/var/lib/xen/images/testr,xvda,w ]
vif = [ mac=00:16:36:0c:aa:1a,bridge=xenbr0,script=vif-bridge ]
irq = [11 ]
ioports = [ ec00-ec07,e080-e08f ] // we also tried to pass all the
IO ports referenced in lspci -vvv
[r...@dom0]#lspci -vvv
03:05.0 Communication controller: NetMos Technology PCI 9835 Multi-I/O
Controller (rev 01)
Subsystem: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 1P2S
Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop-
ParErr- Stepping- SERR+ FastB2B-
Status: Cap- 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium
TAbort- TAbort- MAbort- SERR- PERR-
Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11
Region 0: I/O ports at ec00 [size=8]
Region 1: I/O ports at e880 [size=8]
Region 2: I/O ports at e800 [size=8]
Region 3: I/O ports at e480 [size=8]
Region 4: I/O ports at e400 [size=8]
Region 5: I/O ports at e080 [size=16]
[r...@dom0 ~]# dmesg | grep ttyS
[r...@dom0 ~]# cat /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist
#[...]
blacklist 8250
blacklist 8250_pnp
blacklist serial_core
blacklist parport_serial
blacklist 8250_pci
[r...@dom0 ~]# grep xen /etc/grub.conf
title CentOS (2.6.18-194.el5xen)
kernel /xen.gz-3.4.3
module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-194.el5xen ro root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00
module /initrd-2.6.18-194.el5xen.img
title CentOS (2.6.18-194.8.1.el5xen)
kernel /xen.gz-3.4.3
module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-194.8.1.el5xen ro
root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 xencons=off
module /initrd-2.6.18-194.8.1.el5xen.img
[r...@dom0 ~]# uname -a
Linux Dom0 3 2.6.18-194.8.1.el5xen #1 SMP Thu Jul 1 19:41:05 EDT 2010
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
sniff from the boot messages in tge DomU:
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/vbd/51712
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/vif/0
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/ioports/0
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/ioports/1
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/ioports/2
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/ioports/3
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/ioports/4
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/ioports/5
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/irq/0
XENBUS: Device with no driver: device/console/0
[r...@domu ~]# cat /proc/interrupts
CPU0
256: 7433 Dynamic-irq timer0
257: 0 Dynamic-irq resched0
258: 0 Dynamic-irq callfunc0
259:554 Dynamic-irq xenbus
260:705 Dynamic-irq xencons
261:802 Dynamic-irq xenfb
262: 0 Dynamic-irq xenkbd
263: 6607 Dynamic-irq blkif
264: 8959 Dynamic-irq eth0
NMI: 0
LOC: 0
ERR: 0
MIS: 0
[r...@domu ~]# cat /proc/ioports
-001f : dma1
0020-0021 : pic1
0040-0043 : timer0
0050-0053 : timer1
0060-0060 : keyboard
0064-0064 : keyboard
0080-008f : dma page reg
00a0-00a1 : pic2
00c0-00df : dma2
00f0-00ff : fpu
[r...@domu ~]# lsmod
Module Size Used by
8250_pnp 43969 0
parport_serial 41153 0
8250_pci 56257 1 parport_serial
8250 86057 2 8250_pnp,8250_pci
serial_core56385 1 8250
[...]
[r...@domu ~]# uname -a
Linux DomU 2.6.18-194.8.1.el5xen #1 SMP Thu Jul 1 19:41:05 EDT 2010
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
TIA
manuel
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Re: [CentOS-es] unir dos subredes con salidas independientes a internet
A ver si lo puedo explicar bien. El gateway2 es el que une las 2 subredes, no tienes por que ponerle ese gateway a ningún equipo, ya que desde el gateway 1 y el gateway 3, puedes decir que toda la info que vaya para internet, pues que vaya para internet y toda las peticiones que vayan hacia la otra red que vayan al gateway 2, y el gateway 2 con su enrutamiento interno ya sabrá reenviarlos a la pata correspondiente. Incluso, si el PC está conectado a un switch de capa 3, podrías hacer el enrutamiento desde el switch, pero si no es el caso, simplemente lo que tienes que hacer es lo primero que he dicho, que el gateway que recibe toda la información diga, si sale hacia internet o hacia el gateway 2 para que este le redirija a la otra red. Si algo no entiendes avisa y si alguien ve que he dicho algo mal que corrija!! por que hace bastante qeu no toco nada de redes de esta manera. Un saludo. De: daniel danielog2...@gmail.com Para: centos-es@centos.org Enviado: mié,4 agosto, 2010 19:20 Asunto: Re: [CentOS-es] unir dos subredes con salidas independientes a internet Muchas gracias monica una pregunta si pongo eso que me dices en la tabla de routeo por donde saldrian a internet cada subred? por ejemplo si de la subred A mando una peticion a Internet como biene de la direccion de la red A lo va a mandar a la subred B entonces de la subred B es por donde sale a internet? y la subred B sale a Iternet por la sub red A? espero no confundirte por ejemplo el esquema que me comentas # INTERNET#--(GATEWAY1)--(SUBRED 192.168.X.X)(GATEWAY 2)-(SUBRED 172.26.x.x)-- \ pata1 - pata2 | (GATEWAY3)--- -#INTERNET# A perdón creo que no me explique bien si ya te entendí el problema aquí es te tengo dos salidas a internet una para cada subred y tengo que conservar cada salida y conectar esas dos subredes por eso tantos gw pero la tabla de ruteo iría en el gateway2 y le puedo decir al gw3 y gw 1 que todo lo que no vaya para internet se lo mande al gw2 y en el gw2 hacer lo que me dices todo lo que venga de subred A mandarlo a subred B y lo que venga de subred B mandarlo a la subred A eso lo puedo hacer con IPTABLES y route no? espero no te confunda. Eduardo no puedo ponerle mas tarjetas a los gw centos (bueno si puedo pero me estan calificando mis jefes la calidad de mi trabajo y no quiero pedir mucho equipo solo como ultimo recurso) entonces con el esquema que manejas puedo tener el esquema inicial con los 3 gw y hacer lo que me dices con el comando route y decirle a cada gw por default de cada subred que todo todo lo de la subred 192.168.0.0 esta detras de la maquina 192.168.1.254 y lo mismo para la otra subred y configurar el firewall para que solo lo que vaya para el puerto 80 salga por los gw por default de cada red tambien puede ser una opcion no? Voy a estudiar bien como funciona el comando route e iptables y luego les comento gracias y saludos! ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS-es] unir dos subredes con salidas independientes a internet
Monica muchas gracias ya resolví mi problema con la topologia que estaba manejando, bueno explico mi solución la red es esta (INTERNET)---(GATEWAY1)(192.168.X.X)---(GATEWAY2)--(172.26.X.X)--(GATEWAY3)--(INTERNET) Espero no se descomponga mi dibujo :P Bueno lo primero que hice gracias a la ayuda de Eduardo, fue que los gw1 y gw3 con ayuda del iptables decirles que redes estaban detrás de que ip, explico: En el gw1 con el comando route escribes: route add -net 172.26.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 gw 192..168.1.254 Donde la ip 192.168.1.254 es la ip del gw2 y 172.26.0.0 es la red con la que se va a conectar la mascara de la red que sera usada. En el gw1 con el comando route escribes: route add -net 192.168.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 gw 172..26.1.1 Donde la ip 172.26.1.1 es la ip del gw2 y 192.168.0.0 es la red con la que se va a conectar la mascara de la red que sera usada. Y por ultimo en el gw2 activamos una regla con iptables para el redireccionamiento: iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 192.168.1.0/24 -o eth1 -j MASQUERADE iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 172.26.1.0/24 -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE Y listo así de fácil, muchas gracias por su ayuda y procurare escribir con signos de puntuación la próxima ves :P . ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS-es] unir dos subredes con salidas independientes a internet
2010/8/5 daniel danielog2...@gmail.com En el gw1 con el comando route escribes: route add -net 172.26.0.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 gw 192..168.1.254 Donde la ip 192.168.1.254 es la ip del gw2 y 172.26.0.0 es la red con la que se va a conectar la mascara de la red que sera usada. Recuerda que esta información de ruteo no queda estáticamente definida para el próximo arranque, sino que hay que editar /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-ethX como dijimos antes. -- Eduardo Grosclaude Universidad Nacional del Comahue Neuquen, Argentina ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS-es] unir dos subredes con salidas independientes a internet
Recuerda que esta información de ruteo no queda estáticamente definida para el próximo arranque, sino que hay que editar /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-ethX como dijimos antes. Y si el archivo no existe lo puedo crear? utilizo centos 5.5 ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS-es] unir dos subredes con salidas independientes a internet
Saludos, hermanos. Recuerda que esta información de ruteo no queda estáticamente definida para el próximo arranque, sino que hay que editar /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-ethX como dijimos antes. Y si el archivo no existe lo puedo crear? utilizo centos 5.5 Igual lo puedes poner en el /etc/rc.local. Tienes varias vías para establecerlas. -- Este mensaje le ha llegado mediante el servicio de correo electronico que ofrece Infomed para respaldar el cumplimiento de las misiones del Sistema Nacional de Salud. La persona que envia este correo asume el compromiso de usar el servicio a tales fines y cumplir con las regulaciones establecidas Infomed: http://www.sld.cu/ ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS-es] unir dos subredes con salidas independientes a internet
2010/8/5 Héctor Suárez bolo...@medired.scu.sld.cu Saludos, hermanos. Recuerda que esta información de ruteo no queda estáticamente definida para el próximo arranque, sino que hay que editar /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/route-ethX como dijimos antes. Y si el archivo no existe lo puedo crear? utilizo centos 5.5 Igual lo puedes poner en el /etc/rc.local. Tienes varias vías para establecerlas. Correcto, pero lo interesante de la otra forma es que así las rutas responden al comando service network start / stop. -- Eduardo Grosclaude Universidad Nacional del Comahue Neuquen, Argentina ___ CentOS-es mailing list CentOS-es@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-es
Re: [CentOS] access to file system through web browser
I am trying to find something (php prefered) that I can stick onto a Centos apache server that would allow me to browse a selected file system by employees through a web-browser explorer like interface. AjaXplorer is a mature and pretty well supported web files explorer, with plugins for various authentications and backends: http://www.ajaxplorer.info/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
Mark wrote: I recently updated to OpenOffice 3.2 and I noticed that it, and the latest Evolution, seem to be incredibly slow for some operations. E.g., in OO, about half the time when I'm editing something, it takes anywhere from 10-30 seconds for OO to respond to a click on one of the icons or menu items, and Evo is taking forever to format messages. During these times the gnome-system-monitor icon on my panel is showing almost no activity, and if I expand it to the full window, it shows the same. Is anyone else seeing this? I'm running the x86_64 release on an Athlon II X4, 2.6GHz with 4GB of memory and lots of available space in memory and on disk. Thanks in advance. Mark I'm experiencing similar problems on a DELL Optiplex 740 with the same CPU (AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+ @ 2.60 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 80 GB Hitachi Deskstar 7K80 HD). But in my case the slowness is not restricted to OO, but the whole systems is slowed down. Even simple actions (e.g. starting a Gnome Console) bring the load up to over 2. Right after booting, the load is usually over 2, sometimes even up to 4. The slowness can literally be seen during the boot process. The problem occurs since kernel 2.6.18-194.el5. I measured the boot times (from GRUB to gdmgreeter, booted with 'noapic'): kernel 2.6.18-164.el5 103', load after boot: 0.5 kernel 2.6.18-194.el5 335', load after boot: 2.5 kernel 2.6.18-194.3.1.el5 330', load after boot: 2.3 kernel 2.6.18-194.8.1.el5 335', load after boot: 1.9 When shutting down from kernel 2.6.18-194.x, I often (around 7 of 10 times) get the following error on the console: --- [...] Shutting down hidd: [ OK ] [ OK ] Bluetooth services:[ OK ] Shutting down interface eth0: BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 10s! [ip:3539] CPU 1: Modules linked in: autofs4 hidp rfcomm l2cap bluetooth lockd sunrpc ip_conntrack _netbios_ns ipt_REJECT xt_state ip_conntrack nfnetlink iptable_filter ip_tables ip6t_REJECT xt_tcpudp ip6table_filter ip6_tables x_tables ipv6 xfrm_nalgo crypto _api cpufreq_ondemand powernow_k8 freq_table dm_multipath scsi_dh video backligh t sbs power_meter i2c_ec dell_wmi wmi button battery asus_acpi acpi_memhotplug a c lp sr_mod cdrom snd_hda_intel sg snd_seq_dummy snd_seq_oss snd_seq_midi_event snd_seq snd_seq_device snd_pcm_oss snd_mixer_oss snd_pcm snd_timer snd_page_allo c snd_hwdep parport_pc tg3 k8_edac snd parport i2c_nforce2 floppy k8temp shpchp i2c_core edac_mc hwmon pcspkr soundcore dm_raid45 dm_message dm_region_hash dm_m em_cache dm_snapshot dm_zero dm_mirror dm_log dm_mod sata_nv libata sd_mod scsi_ mod ext3 jbd uhci_hcd ohci_hcd ehci_hcd Pid: 3539, comm: ip Not tainted 2.6.18-194.8.1.el5 #1 RIP: 0010:[8000c9f6] [8000c9f6] __delay+0x8/0x10 RSP: 0018:810125741c60 EFLAGS: 0297 RAX: 539a8625 RBX: 1388 RCX: 52518896 RDX: 012b RSI: c206044c RDI: 0291ae58 RBP: 393a7993 R08: 0002 R09: 810125741d1c R10: 0018 R11: 05e10300 R12: 0002 R13: 810125741d1c R14: 004c R15: 80225929 FS: 2b3ee841a800() GS:81010438d7c0() knlGS: CS: 0010 DS: ES: CR0: 8005003b CR2: 00365a6cc640 CR3: 000122af CR4: 06e0 Call Trace: [882444e7] :tg3:tg3_readphy+0x77/0xdf [88246d90] :tg3:tg3_setup_copper_phy+0x86a/0xb35 [88247d62] :tg3:tg3_setup_phy+0xd07/0xe39 [80158813] pci_bus_read_config_word+0x71/0x83 [80158647] pci_bus_write_config_dword+0x5f/0x6e [88248080] :tg3:tg3_set_power_state+0x1ec/0x96e [88252c34] :tg3:tg3_close+0x103/0x113 [8022f4ea] dev_close+0x53/0x72 [8022e609] dev_change_flags+0x5a/0x119 [80262fd8] devinet_ioctl+0x235/0x59c [80225d4f] sock_ioctl+0x1c1/0x1e5 [8004206a] do_ioctl+0x21/0x6b [800300ca] vfs_ioctl+0x457/0x4b9 [800b7605] audit_syscall_entry+0x180/0x1b3 [8004c549] sys_ioctl+0x59/0x78 [8005d28d] tracesys+0xd5/0xe0 [ OK ] Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ] [...] --- The complete console of the boot process can be seen on http://pastebin.de/8808, the console output of the shutdown/reboot process is on http://pastebin.de/8809. Bootcharts of the two boot processes can be seen on http://www.drosera.ch/kernelproblem/. Memtest has been run w/o result. Is there a way to narrow down the problem before posting a bug report? Cheers frank -- Frank Thommen - Structures IT Management and Support - EMBL Heidelberg frank.thom...@embl-heidelberg.de - +49 6221 387 8353 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
Frank Thommen wrote: I'm experiencing similar problems on a DELL Optiplex 740 with the same CPU (AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+ @ 2.60 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 80 GB Hitachi Deskstar 7K80 HD). But in my case the slowness is not restricted to OO, but the whole systems is slowed down. Even simple actions (e.g. starting a Gnome Console) bring the load up to over 2. Right after booting, the load is usually over 2, sometimes even up to 4. Can you post the output of lspci and lsmod ? James Pearson ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] mirrors down?
Just went to update a couple systems this morning, and first one machine took nearly 15 min to find the mirrors (and it should be getting it all from our own repo, actually), and then the next one showed about 8-10 mirrors down, including Harvard and VCU. Anyone know what's going on? mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] WAS/CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow//Now Where are the Kernels?
On Wed, 2010-08-04 at 19:07 +0100, Ned Slider wrote: On 04/08/10 10:08, JohnS wrote: UPDATE ! Replying to my self those you see missing are not on Red Hats Public Mirror Site so evidently those are not built to go in CentOs. I presume those come out in the fastrack repository? Can someone correct me here if I am wrong. No, they are internal Red Hat builds and are not publicly released. CentOS release every kernel that Red Hat releases. Typically Red Hat will only release a kernel when a security issue makes it pertinent to do so and in the mean time there are often a number of internal bug fix releases that don't get released to customers or the public. Yeap I discovered that at work yestarday :-( FasTrack typically contains trivial bug fixes that will get rolled into the next update set, but are made available early via the FasTrack channel to those that wish to consume them: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rhel-server-fastrack-errata.html Noted also and thanks for the answer Ned. John ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
On 08/05/2010 02:44 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Just went to update a couple systems this morning, and first one machine took nearly 15 min to find the mirrors (and it should be getting it all from our own repo, actually), and then the next one showed about 8-10 mirrors down, including Harvard and VCU. Anyone know what's going on? debugging yum issues is almost always best done from your local client instance. Running yum with -d9 would be a good place to start from. - KB ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
Karanbir Singh wrote: On 08/05/2010 02:44 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Just went to update a couple systems this morning, and first one machine took nearly 15 min to find the mirrors (and it should be getting it all from our own repo, actually), and then the next one showed about 8-10 mirrors down, including Harvard and VCU. Anyone know what's going on? debugging yum issues is almost always best done from your local client instance. Running yum with -d9 would be a good place to start from. I do not believe it's a local yum issue. I tried to point firefox to http://mirror.harvard.edu, not exactly an obscure mirror, and it times out. As I work for an agency of the US gov't, and we have *fat* pipes, it's not likely to be on our end. From yum -d9 update: snip Could not retrieve mirrorlist http://apt.sw.be/redhat/el5/en/mirrors-rpmforge error was [Errno 4] IOError: urlopen error (110, 'Connection timed out') ... http://mirror.umoss.org/fedora/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://mirror.vcu.edu/pub/gnu%2Blinux/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://mirror.cc.columbia.edu/pub/linux/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://mirror.seas.harvard.edu/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://mirrors.rit.edu/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://download.fedora.sr.unh.edu/pub/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. And it's still going. What we have here is a massive problem with the mirrors. So, any *real* idea what's going on? mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 10:07:33AM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: http://mirror.harvard.edu, not exactly an obscure mirror, and it times out. Doesn't look to be a mirror.harvard.edu in DNS. From yum -d9 update: yum update runs instantly for me from NYC just now. Yum was working a half-hour back from NY too. Whit ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
And it's still going. What we have here is a massive problem with the mirrors. So, any *real* idea what's going on? mark Other then http://mirror.harvard.edu/ everything referenced in your test is showing as up. -- Drew Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. --Marie Curie ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] CentOS to RedHat and vice versa
Has anyone ever tried to mass replace installed RedHat RPMS with their equivalent CentOS versions or vice versa? I was thinking of generating a list of all packages and then running RPM or yum with a 'replace' option. The reason for doing this: Years ago I was tasked with building a RHEL4 system. Budgeting, time constraints, the lunar cycle, etc.., prevented the purchase of an equivalent development environment. So CentOS was used for the development/test system. It sufficed for several years. Now I need to make them as close to identical as possible which means registering the development system in RHN and making it standard. I've seen posts that RHEL - CentOS is at least possible. That is, take a RHEL system and get it to update via YUM and CentOS repositories. I have not seen the reverse, however. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
James Pearson wrote: Frank Thommen wrote: I'm experiencing similar problems on a DELL Optiplex 740 with the same CPU (AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+ @ 2.60 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 80 GB Hitachi Deskstar 7K80 HD). But in my case the slowness is not restricted to OO, but the whole systems is slowed down. Even simple actions (e.g. starting a Gnome Console) bring the load up to over 2. Right after booting, the load is usually over 2, sometimes even up to 4. Can you post the output of lspci and lsmod ? sorry, forgot to copy-paste these in my original post: [r...@shelley ~]# uname -a Linux shelley 2.6.18-194.8.1.el5 #1 SMP Thu Jul 1 19:04:48 EDT 2010 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux [r...@shelley ~]# lspci 00:00.0 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Host Bridge (rev a2) 00:00.1 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Memory Controller 0 (rev a2) 00:00.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Memory Controller 1 (rev a2) 00:00.3 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Memory Controller 5 (rev a2) 00:00.4 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Memory Controller 4 (rev a2) 00:00.5 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Host Bridge (rev a2) 00:00.6 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Memory Controller 3 (rev a2) 00:00.7 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation C51 Memory Controller 2 (rev a2) 00:02.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation C51 PCI Express Bridge (rev a1) 00:03.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation C51 PCI Express Bridge (rev a1) 00:04.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation C51 PCI Express Bridge (rev a1) 00:09.0 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Host Bridge (rev a2) 00:0a.0 ISA bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP51 LPC Bridge (rev a3) 00:0a.1 SMBus: nVidia Corporation MCP51 SMBus (rev a3) 00:0a.2 RAM memory: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Memory Controller 0 (rev a3) 00:0b.0 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation MCP51 USB Controller (rev a3) 00:0b.1 USB Controller: nVidia Corporation MCP51 USB Controller (rev a3) 00:0e.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller (rev a1) 00:0f.0 IDE interface: nVidia Corporation MCP51 Serial ATA Controller (rev a1) 00:10.0 PCI bridge: nVidia Corporation MCP51 PCI Bridge (rev a2) 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) 00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration 00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map 00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller 00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5754 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express (rev 02) 03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV43GL [Quadro FX 550] (rev a2) [r...@shelley ~]# lsmod Module Size Used by autofs463049 11 hidp 83521 2 rfcomm104681 0 l2cap 89281 10 hidp,rfcomm bluetooth 118853 5 hidp,rfcomm,l2cap lockd 101553 0 sunrpc199945 2 lockd ip_conntrack_netbios_ns36033 0 ipt_REJECT 38977 1 xt_state 35265 2 ip_conntrack 91621 2 ip_conntrack_netbios_ns,xt_state nfnetlink 40457 1 ip_conntrack iptable_filter 36161 1 ip_tables 55201 1 iptable_filter ip6t_REJECT38849 1 xt_tcpudp 36289 10 ip6table_filter36033 1 ip6_tables 50049 1 ip6table_filter x_tables 50505 6 ipt_REJECT,xt_state,ip_tables,ip6t_REJECT,xt_tcpudp,ip6_tables ipv6 435489 23 ip6t_REJECT xfrm_nalgo 4 1 ipv6 crypto_api 42945 1 xfrm_nalgo cpufreq_ondemand 42449 1 powernow_k856025 1 freq_table 38977 2 cpufreq_ondemand,powernow_k8 dm_multipath 56921 0 scsi_dh42177 1 dm_multipath video 53197 0 backlight 39873 1 video sbs49921 0 power_meter47053 0 i2c_ec 38593 1 sbs dell_wmi 37601 0 wmi41985 1 dell_wmi button 40545 0 battery43849 0 asus_acpi 50917 0 acpi_memhotplug40516 0 ac 38729 0 lp 47121 0 joydev 43969 0 snd_hda_intel 639265 0 snd_seq_dummy 37061 0 snd_seq_oss65473 0 snd_seq_midi_event 41025 1 snd_seq_oss snd_seq8 5 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq_midi_event snd_seq_device 41557 3 snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq snd_pcm_oss77377 0 snd_mixer_oss 49985 1 snd_pcm_oss snd_pcm 116681 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm_oss snd_timer 57161 2 snd_seq,snd_pcm snd_page_alloc 44113 2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm sr_mod 50789 0
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
On 08/05/2010 03:07 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: And it's still going. What we have here is a massive problem with the mirrors. I cant reproduce the issue, but from the looks of things, you seem to have a bad network locally to you. I'd doubt the whole internet had fallen apart at exactly the same time. Also, if you are using fastestmirror, that shold find and remove from the yum run any url to a machine that isnt available at the time. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS to RedHat and vice versa
On 08/05/2010 03:24 PM, Kwan Lowe wrote: I've seen posts that RHEL - CentOS is at least possible. That is, take a RHEL system and get it to update via YUM and CentOS repositories. I have not seen the reverse, however. you might want to speak with your Red Hat support / sales guys as well, going down that route might cause them to get upset ( or not be liable for support ) - KB ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
Frank Thommen wrote: Can you post the output of lspci and lsmod ? sorry, forgot to copy-paste these in my original post: [r...@shelley ~]# lspci ... 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) [r...@shelley ~]# lsmod ... snd_hda_intel 639265 0 Could this be related to BZ #586532 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=586532 ??? James Pearson ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS to RedHat and vice versa
On 08/05/2010 10:24 AM, Kwan Lowe wrote: Has anyone ever tried to mass replace installed RedHat RPMS with their equivalent CentOS versions or vice versa? I've seen posts that RHEL - CentOS is at least possible. That is, take a RHEL system and get it to update via YUM and CentOS repositories. I have not seen the reverse, however. Check this out, it will point you in the right direction: http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/04/15/Switch-from-CentOS-5.4-to-RHEL-5.5 Tom ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
mark the FAQ suff is a good idea... in fact, when people singup, they should have to agree to list rules or be pointed to them on signup. i wonder though, seriously, does the teach a man to fish principle really apply? ie LMGTFY type stuff or ??? or cluesticks? ;- as far as lazy, it is hard to find motivated people that want to work/participate. they just want paychecks. - rh However, he is, indeed, pulling what I referred to in my proposed FAQ as asking us to do his job for him. And, for that matter, if he actually *has* RHEL, he's presumably paid for it, and it's his *job*, for which he is presubably getting paid, and he wants us to do it for free. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
m.r...@5-cent.us a écrit : Just went to update a couple systems this morning, and first one machine took nearly 15 min to find the mirrors (and it should be getting it all from our own repo, actually), and then the next one showed about 8-10 mirrors down, including Harvard and VCU. Anyone know what's going on? Same here. Running 'yum check-update' on my normally superfast dedicated server (in a datacenter in France) takes ages. Niki ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote, On 08/05/2010 12:40 AM: That's the thing, I don't think I can tolerate a slightly behind copy on the system. The transaction once done, must remain done. A situation where a node fails right after a transaction was done and output to user, then recovered to a slightly behind state where the same transaction is then not done or not recorded, is not acceptable for many types of transaction. You speak of transactions in a way that makes me think you are dealing with databases. If this is the case, then I suggest you take a few searches over to the drbd archives** and look for database issues, IIRC in some cases you are better off (speed and admin understanding/sanity) letting the database's built in replication handle the server to server database transactional sync than to trust a file system or even drbd to do it, because the db engine can/will make sure the backup db server ALSO has the data before reporting the transaction done. Not saying that having the DB on top of gluster or DRBD too would be bad, just suggesting that you may want to have the DB backed by something that fully understands the transactions. ** http://lists.linbit.com/pipermail/drbd-user/ -- Todd Denniston Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
At Thu, 5 Aug 2010 10:07:33 -0400 CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: Karanbir Singh wrote: On 08/05/2010 02:44 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Just went to update a couple systems this morning, and first one machine took nearly 15 min to find the mirrors (and it should be getting it all from our own repo, actually), and then the next one showed about 8-10 mirrors down, including Harvard and VCU. Anyone know what's going on? debugging yum issues is almost always best done from your local client instance. Running yum with -d9 would be a good place to start from. I do not believe it's a local yum issue. I tried to point firefox to http://mirror.harvard.edu, not exactly an obscure mirror, and it times out. As I work for an agency of the US gov't, and we have *fat* pipes, it's not likely to be on our end. From yum -d9 update: snip Could not retrieve mirrorlist http://apt.sw.be/redhat/el5/en/mirrors-rpmforge error was [Errno 4] IOError: urlopen error (110, 'Connection timed out') ... I can fetch http://apt.sw.be/redhat/el5/en/mirrors-rpmforge just fine on my dialup connection via localnet.com http://mirror.umoss.org/fedora/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out And I can fetch http://mirror.umoss.org/fedora/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml as well Trying other mirror. http://mirror.vcu.edu/pub/gnu%2Blinux/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out And I can fetch http://mirror.vcu.edu/pub/gnu%2Blinux/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml These are all with Firefox. You might want to double check things at your end. If *I* can fetch these URLs with a low-end funky dialup connection, I would guess that the *servers* are fine. Something else is wrong. Maybe someone did something screwy with a firewall or router somewhere? Or maybe a router has just gone bad. Trying other mirror. http://mirror.cc.columbia.edu/pub/linux/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://mirror.seas.harvard.edu/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://mirrors.rit.edu/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. http://download.fedora.sr.unh.edu/pub/epel/5/x86_64/repodata/repomd.xml: [Errno 12] Timeout: urlopen error timed out Trying other mirror. And it's still going. What we have here is a massive problem with the mirrors. So, any *real* idea what's going on? mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 Deepwoods Software-- Download the Model Railroad System http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Binaries for Linux and MS-Windows hel...@deepsoft.com -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ModelRailroadSystem/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
Steve Huff wrote: On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:07 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: I do not believe it's a local yum issue. I tried to point firefox to http://mirror.harvard.edu, not exactly an obscure mirror, and it times out. As I work for an agency of the US gov't, and we have *fat* pipes, it's not likely to be on our end. Mark, 1) are you looking for CentOS mirrors or for RPMforge/Fedora/EPEL mirrors? 2) do you, perhaps, mean to point to http://mirror.hmdc.harvard.edu/ rather than http://mirror.harvard.edu/? -steve (AKA sh...@hmdc.harvard.edu) I see the emailg I just called our network support, and when I asked if there'd been a firewall change in the last 12 hours, was told there's a routing issue, with no ETR. *sigh* Thanks, folks. mark rollback the change, um, what's that mean? ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
On Thu, 2010-08-05 at 11:04 -0400, Todd Denniston wrote: You speak of transactions in a way that makes me think you are dealing with databases. If this is the case, then I suggest you take a few searches over to the drbd archives** and look for database issues, IIRC in some cases you are better off (speed and admin understanding/sanity) letting the database's built in replication handle the server to server database transactional sync than to trust a file system or even drbd to do it, because the db engine can/will make sure the backup db server ALSO has the data before reporting the transaction done. Not saying that having the DB on top of gluster or DRBD too would be bad, just suggesting that you may want to have the DB backed by something that fully understands the transactions. --- Nice analogy have you ever done this? Have you done this with separate Read Write DBs? How about streaming to a file (constant backup). The OP is talking about virtual machine images John ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
JohnS wrote, On 08/05/2010 11:24 AM: On Thu, 2010-08-05 at 11:04 -0400, Todd Denniston wrote: You speak of transactions in a way that makes me think you are dealing with databases. If this is the case, then I suggest you take a few searches over to the drbd archives** and look for database issues, IIRC ... ... Not saying that having the DB on top of gluster or DRBD too would be bad, just suggesting that you may want to have the DB backed by something that fully understands the transactions. --- Nice analogy have you ever done this? Have you done this with separate Read Write DBs? How about streaming to a file (constant backup). The OP is talking about virtual machine images The reason I suggested the googleing (a few searches) in the drbd list, is that I have _read_ the discussions on the list, and Recalled that some found it more appropriate for the DB to do the work. I on the other hand have fortunately only been an observer of the discussions, not a participant, nor a user of the ideas. i.e. I only have the metadata that there have been some good (well reasoned and polite) discussions of database replication on that list, which I believe would apply equally to a DB on DRBD and to a DB on a replicating file system. -- Todd Denniston Crane Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC Crane) Harnessing the Power of Technology for the Warfighter ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] mirrors down?
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 10:13:50AM -0400, Whit Blauvelt wrote: yum update runs instantly for me from NYC just now. Yum was working a half-hour back from NY too. Same here, from both NYC (roadrunner), and work (Verizon commercial, LIC). -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Now, we can do this the hard way or... well, actually, there's just the hard way. Darla: That's fine with me. Buffy: Are you sure? Now this is not gonna be pretty. We're talking violence, strong language, adult content. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS to RedHat and vice versa
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Tom Georgoulias t...@mcclatchyinteractive.com wrote: On 08/05/2010 10:24 AM, Kwan Lowe wrote: Has anyone ever tried to mass replace installed RedHat RPMS with their equivalent CentOS versions or vice versa? I've seen posts that RHEL - CentOS is at least possible. That is, take a RHEL system and get it to update via YUM and CentOS repositories. I have not seen the reverse, however. Check this out, it will point you in the right direction: http://blog.famillecollet.com/post/2010/04/15/Switch-from-CentOS-5.4-to-RHEL-5.5 Holy heck, that looks very much like what I'm trying to do.. I'm running an CentOS4/RHEL4, but that's a lot of useful information.. Thank you.. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 07:49:36AM -0700, R-Elists wrote: mark the FAQ suff is a good idea... in fact, when people singup, they should have to agree to list rules or be pointed to them on signup. I co-moderate an ancient beginners' list on yahoo--we have something like that, but it's almost useless. They say they read it, they even have to type something halfway intelligent to join the list, but really don't seem to have actually read the FAQ. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Cordelia: You're just a souless bloodsucking demon. They're LAWYERS ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 7:35 AM, James Pearson jame...@moving-picture.com wrote: Frank Thommen wrote: Can you post the output of lspci and lsmod ? sorry, forgot to copy-paste these in my original post: [r...@shelley ~]# lspci ... 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) [r...@shelley ~]# lsmod ... snd_hda_intel 639265 0 Could this be related to BZ #586532 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=586532 ??? I'm not having sound problems 00:05.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP61 High Definition Audio (rev a2) Nit: I have an X4, not an X2, but that might not be relevant. Mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
Scott Robbins wrote: On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 07:49:36AM -0700, R-Elists wrote: mark the FAQ suff is a good idea... in fact, when people singup, they should have to agree to list rules or be pointed to them on signup. I co-moderate an ancient beginners' list on yahoo--we have something like that, but it's almost useless. They say they read it, they even have to type something halfway intelligent to join the list, but really don't seem to have actually read the FAQ. Ah, but then, instead of slamming them, we can just deluge them with the FAQ mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS to RedHat and vice versa
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-li...@karan.org wrote: On 08/05/2010 03:24 PM, Kwan Lowe wrote: I've seen posts that RHEL - CentOS is at least possible. That is, take a RHEL system and get it to update via YUM and CentOS repositories. I have not seen the reverse, however. you might want to speak with your Red Hat support / sales guys as well, going down that route might cause them to get upset ( or not be liable for support ) :) Yes, that is a concern. For good or bad, I don't use their support offerings too often. Their turnaround time is 24 hours, and just about every technical question I've had has been much more thoroughly dissected here on this list. The switch to an official RHEL4 is mainly for procedural compliance. I.e., bring it under Satellite control so that we can manage patches and generate reports. Luckily it is a VMWare machine so my intention is to clone the CentOS image, do all the conversion work, then attempt to register it. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
Mark wrote: I'm not having sound problems 00:05.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP61 High Definition Audio (rev a2) It might still be worth adding 'enable_msi=0' to the 'options snd-hda-intel' line in /etc/modprobe.conf to see if it makes any difference after a reboot ... James Pearson ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
On 8/4/2010 11:40 PM, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote: It is good for 2 things - you can snapshot for local 'back-in-time' copies without using extra space, and you can do incremental dump/restores from local to remote snapshots. That sounds good... and bad at the same time because I add yet another factor/feature to consider :D But even if you have live replicated data you might want historical snapshots and/or backup copies to protect against software/operator failure modes that might lose all of the replicated copies at once. The VM host side is simple enough if its disk image is intact. But, if you want to survive a disk server failure you need to have that replicated which seems like your main problem. Which is where Gluster comes in with replicate across servers. If you can tolerate a 'slightly behind' backup copy, you could probably build it on top of zfs snapshot send/receive replication. Nexenta has some sort of high-availability synchronous replication in their commercial product but I don't know the license terms. That's the thing, I don't think I can tolerate a slightly behind copy on the system. The transaction once done, must remain done. A situation where a node fails right after a transaction was done and output to user, then recovered to a slightly behind state where the same transaction is then not done or not recorded, is not acceptable for many types of transaction. What you want is difficult to accomplish even in a local file system. I think it would be unreasonably expensive (both in speed and cost) to put your entire data store on something that provides both replication and transactional guarantees. I'd like to be convinced otherwise, though... Is it a requirement that you can recover your transactional state after a complete power loss or is it enough to have reached the buffers of a replica system? The part I wonder about in all of these schemes is how long it takes to recover when the mirroring is broken. Even with local md mirrors I find it takes most of a day even with 1Tb drives with other operations becoming impractically slow. In most cases, I'll expect the drives would fail first than the server. So with the propose configuration, I have for each set of data, a pair of server and 2 pairs of mirror drives. If server goes down, Gluster handles self healing and if I'm not wrong, it's smart about it so won't be duplicating every single inode. On the drive side, even if one server is heavily impacted by the resync process, the system as a whole likely won't notice it as much since the other server is still at full speed. I don't see how you can have transactional replication if the servers don't have to stay in sync, or how you can avoid being slowed down by the head motion of a good drive being replicated to a new mirror. There's just some physics involved that don't make sense. I don't know if there's a way to shutdown a degraded md array and add a new disk without resyncing/building. If that's possible, we have a device which can clone a 1TB disk in about 4 hrs thus reducing the delay to restore full redundancy. As far as I know, linux md devices have to rebuild completely. A raid1 will run at full speed with only one member so you can put off the rebuild for as long as you are willing to not have redundancy and the rebuild doesn't use much CPU, but during the rebuild the good drive's head has to make a complete pass across the drive and will keep getting pulled back there when running applications need it to be elsewhere. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
James Pearson wrote: Frank Thommen wrote: Can you post the output of lspci and lsmod ? sorry, forgot to copy-paste these in my original post: [r...@shelley ~]# lspci ... 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) [r...@shelley ~]# lsmod ... snd_hda_intel 639265 0 Could this be related to BZ #586532 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=586532 ??? Yes it is. Same symptoms and the fix proposed there resolved the problem: Add the option enable_msi=0 to the snd-hda-intel line in /etc/modprobe.conf: options snd-hda-intel [your other options] enable_msi=0 Thanks for the hint. frank -- Frank Thommen - Structures IT Management and Support - EMBL Heidelberg frank.thom...@embl-heidelberg.de - +49 6221 387 8353 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] access to file system through web browser
On 8/4/2010 8:08 PM, Jobst Schmalenbach wrote: Hi. I am trying to find something (php prefered) that I can stick onto a Centos apache server that would allow me to browse a selected file system by employees through a web-browser explorer like interface. I know I can do this through WinSCP (and have done so), but my problem is I have Linux, Windows and MAC clients and my knowledge of MAC's is rather limited. Look for something called fugu for the Mac. I can limit access to the (php) files to (ranges of) IP addresses, so security is reasonable ok and doing this through a web interface saves me time, too, as I only have to do this once, and security fixes is easy, too. Is there anything that would imitate a tree view like interface to browse a file system? Others have suggested enabling indexes in apache which will work if all you have to do is read and apache has file system permissions. I haven't used it for a while, but I thought webmin had a decent file manager component and you might find some of the other modules useful too. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
Mark wrote: On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 7:35 AM, James Pearson jame...@moving-picture.com wrote: Frank Thommen wrote: Can you post the output of lspci and lsmod ? sorry, forgot to copy-paste these in my original post: [r...@shelley ~]# lspci ... 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) [r...@shelley ~]# lsmod ... snd_hda_intel 639265 0 Could this be related to BZ #586532 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=586532 ??? I'm not having sound problems 00:05.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP61 High Definition Audio (rev a2) Nit: I have an X4, not an X2, but that might not be relevant. The problem was reported for 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) it seems you're lucky having the MCP61 ;-) frank ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 11:49:07AM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: have to type something halfway intelligent to join the list, but really don't seem to have actually read the FAQ. No one reads FAQs. They're a relic of the old guard (what, read the FAQ and monitor a newsgroup for a week before joining in? Huh! What a bizarre notion! I need answers now!!!). I autopost a FAQ to a few newsgroups on a monthly basis and still no one ever reads it. -- rgds Stephen ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS 5.5 latest revisions seem really slow
Frank Thommen wrote: The problem was reported for 00:10.1 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP51 High Definition Audio (rev a2) it seems you're lucky having the MCP61 ;-) The MCP61 still uses the snd_hda_intel driver, and the upstream ALSA 'fix' is to blacklist all NVidia chipsets wrt MSI, so it is probably still worth trying the work around ... James Pearson ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] access to file system through web browser
AjaXplorer is a mature and pretty well supported web files explorer, with plugins for various authentications and backends: http://www.ajaxplorer.info/ with some instructions for CentOS here: http://www.argeo.org/mediawiki/index.php/AjaXplorer#How_To_Install_on_RHEL.2FCentOS_5 Note especially: Directory /usr/local/share/ajaxplorer php_value error_reporting 2 /Directory ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
disagree, we read them all the time. if we didnt, then we would be wasting time money purchasing very hi tech and then wasting time and money not being able to use it or spinning wheels looking for docs etc. i think the problem is more that rules are not enforced in many lists... or nobody wants to be the one that enforces properly gracefully yet be publically known. and should only be direct posting... nabble and other pseduo input interfaces should be blocked -rh No one reads FAQs. They're a relic of the old guard (what, read the FAQ and monitor a newsgroup for a week before joining in? Huh! What a bizarre notion! I need answers now!!!). I autopost a FAQ to a few newsgroups on a monthly basis and still no one ever reads it. -- rgds Stephen ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
On 8/5/10, Todd Denniston todd.dennis...@tsb.cranrdte.navy.mil wrote: You speak of transactions in a way that makes me think you are dealing with databases. That's part of the application suite. Although we do suggest to clients to have different servers for each particular use, some of them are budget constraints and fortunately also have low loads. Both due largely to the fact they are usually small operations as well. So we end up having to setup servers which double/triple up as web/email/application. We are trying to keep things separate in the sense by using VMs for each purpose so that we can eventually migrate them with minimum complications to individual machines when their business grows to that level. If this is the case, then I suggest you take a few searches over to the drbd archives** and look for database issues, IIRC in some cases you are better off (speed and admin understanding/sanity) letting the database's built in replication handle the server to server database transactional sync than to trust a file system or even drbd to do it, because the db engine can/will make sure the backup db server ALSO has the data before reporting the transaction done. Not saying that having the DB on top of gluster or DRBD too would be bad, just suggesting that you may want to have the DB backed by something that fully understands the transactions. Definitely running the DBMS' own transaction logging and replication feature is part of the plan. I know DRDB has the option to report a write as done only when both copies are written so it's not an issue. However, I thought the slight delay snapshot comment was about using ZFS snapshot send/receive replication? I don't really know the details on that so took your word for it that it involves some kind of perceivable delay likely similar to the several seconds long timing of delayed allocation. That was what I was responding to as being not acceptable, sorry if I caused any confusion. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] access to file system through web browser
Les Mikesell wrote: On 8/4/2010 8:08 PM, Jobst Schmalenbach wrote: I am trying to find something (php prefered) that I can stick onto a Centos apache server that would allow me to browse a selected file system by employees through a web-browser explorer like interface. I know I can do this through WinSCP (and have done so), but my problem is I have Linux, Windows and MAC clients and my knowledge of MAC's is rather limited. snip So, you just need it for the Macs? For Linux, konqueror comes with every distro. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
R-Elists wrote: disagree, we read them all the time. Come on, did he need satirepost/satire? #insert old_guard.h mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
On 8/6/10, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: But even if you have live replicated data you might want historical snapshots and/or backup copies to protect against software/operator failure modes that might lose all of the replicated copies at once. That we already do, daily backups of database, configurations and where applicable website data. Kept for two months before dropping to fortnightly archives which are then offloaded and kept for years. What you want is difficult to accomplish even in a local file system. I think it would be unreasonably expensive (both in speed and cost) to put your entire data store on something that provides both replication and transactional guarantees. I'd like to be convinced otherwise, though... Is it a requirement that you can recover your transactional state after a complete power loss or is it enough to have reached the buffers of a replica system? For the local side, I can rely on ACID compliant database engines such as InnoDB on MySQL to maintain transactional integrity. What I don't want is if the transaction is committed on the primary disk, an output sent to the user for something supposedly unique such as a serial number. Then before the replication service (in this case, the delayed replicate of zfs send/receive) kicks in, the primary server dies. For DRBD and gluster, if I'm not mistaken, unless I deliberate set otherwise, a write must have at least reached the replica buffers before it's considered as committed. So this scenario is unlikely to arise thus I don't see this as a problem with using them as machine replication service as compared to the unknown delay of using zfs send/receive replicate. While I'm using DB as an example, the same issue applies to the VM disk image. The upper layer cannot be told a write is done until it's been at least sent out to the replica system. The way I see it under DRBD or gluster replicate, only if the replica dies after receiving the write, followed by the primary dying after receiving the ack AND reporting the result to the user AND both drives in its mirror dying. Then would I have a consistency issue. I know it's not possible to guarantee 100% but I can live with this kind of probability as compared to a several seconds delay where several transactions/changes could have taken place before a replica receives an update. In most cases, I'll expect the drives would fail first than the server. So with the propose configuration, I have for each set of data, a pair of server and 2 pairs of mirror drives. If server goes down, Gluster handles self healing and if I'm not wrong, it's smart about it so won't be duplicating every single inode. On the drive side, even if one server is heavily impacted by the resync process, the system as a whole likely won't notice it as much since the other server is still at full speed. I don't see how you can have transactional replication if the servers don't have to stay in sync, or how you can avoid being slowed down by the head motion of a good drive being replicated to a new mirror. There's just some physics involved that don't make sense. Sorry for the confusion, I don't mean no slow down or expect the underlying fs to be responsible for transactional replication. That's the job of the DBMS, I just need the fs replication not to fail in such a way that it could cause transactional integrity issue as noted in my reply above. Also I expect the impact of a rebuild to be lesser as gluster can be configured (temporarily or permanently) to prefer a particular volume(node) to be read from so the responsiveness should still be good (just that the theoretical bandwidth is halved) and reducing the head motion on the rebuilding node as less reads are demanded from it. As far as I know, linux md devices have to rebuild completely. A raid1 Darn, I was hoping there was the equivalent of assemble but do not rebuild option which I had on fakeraid controllers several years back. But I suppose if we clone the drive externally and throw it back into service, it still does help with reducing the degradation window since it is an identical copy even if md doesn't know it. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 10:54 AM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: I co-moderate an ancient beginners' list on yahoo--we have something like that, but it's almost useless. They say they read it, they even have to type something halfway intelligent to join the list, but really don't seem to have actually read the FAQ. Ah, but then, instead of slamming them, we can just deluge them with the FAQ But what's the point? When you give away good, free stuff, people are naturally going to ask for more. The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
the point is enforcement somehow... why not require a small yearly donation for access to the list ??? 12 bucks a year? or more ? donations cannot be taken back yet lusers can be moderated or terminated and to come back, they donate again - rh But what's the point? When you give away good, free stuff, people are naturally going to ask for more. The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
R-Elists wrote: the point is enforcement somehow... why not require a small yearly donation for access to the list ??? 12 bucks a year? or more ? donations cannot be taken back yet lusers can be moderated or terminated and to come back, they donate again The simple answer is moderation. If, say, 3, or 5 regular posters complain about someone, they get a canned warning message; the luser does it a second time, they get dropped from the list. They rejoin, and do it again, they get dropped and banned for at least six months. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
huh? it was sincere we are on your side bunky... :-) insert foot in backside;-) lighten up homes - rh Come on, did he need satirepost/satire? #insert old_guard.h mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: snip The simple answer is moderation. If, say, 3, or 5 regular posters complain about someone, they get a canned warning message; the luser does it a second time, they get dropped from the list. They rejoin, and do it again, they get dropped and banned for at least six months. Forgot to add: moderation is important. Over on the redhalt general list, every so often a dozen or two of us will complain when someone sets their email to an out-of-office bounce, and we have days or weeks of the damn things in response to almost every post, but the RH moderator doesn't pay much attention to it. We've had some where it looked like someone had left that when they left the job, and it took *weeks* of complaints before the moderator paid attention and dropped them. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? The major difference I've seen in that sort of request is that coders tend to ask for help with a small subset of the overall task (a routine) while erstwhile admins tend to ask for help with the totality of the task. When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. Mostly. -- Paul Heinlein heinl...@madboa.com http://www.madboa.com/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
R-Elists wrote: Come on, did he need satirepost/satire? #insert old_guard.h huh? it was sincere we are on your side bunky... :-) insert foot in backside;-) lighten up homes Hey, I worked long and hard to become a curmudgeon, and that was with a stirling example to follow mark surly to bed, surly to rise ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
well taken i think centos should make manatory donation for support list or a few of their lists... revenue will do centos project/people good. then moderate - rh The simple answer is moderation. If, say, 3, or 5 regular posters complain about someone, they get a canned warning message; the luser does it a second time, they get dropped from the list. They rejoin, and do it again, they get dropped and banned for at least six months. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
On 8/5/2010 12:12 PM, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote: What you want is difficult to accomplish even in a local file system. I think it would be unreasonably expensive (both in speed and cost) to put your entire data store on something that provides both replication and transactional guarantees. I'd like to be convinced otherwise, though... Is it a requirement that you can recover your transactional state after a complete power loss or is it enough to have reached the buffers of a replica system? For the local side, I can rely on ACID compliant database engines such as InnoDB on MySQL to maintain transactional integrity. If you are going to do that, why not also rely on the database engine's replication which is aware of the transactions? Databases rely on filesystem write ordering and fsync() actually working - things that aren't always reliable locally, much less when clustered. For DRBD and gluster, if I'm not mistaken, unless I deliberate set otherwise, a write must have at least reached the replica buffers before it's considered as committed. So this scenario is unlikely to arise thus I don't see this as a problem with using them as machine replication service as compared to the unknown delay of using zfs send/receive replicate. But there are lots of ways things can go wrong, and clustering just adds to them. What happens when your replica host dies? Or the network to it, or the disk where you expect the copy to land? And if you don't wait for a sync to disk, what happens if these things break after the remote accepted the buffer copy. While I'm using DB as an example, the same issue applies to the VM disk image. The DB will offer a more optimized alternative. A VM image won't. But can you afford to wait for transactional guarantees on all that data that mostly doesn't matter? The upper layer cannot be told a write is done until it's been at least sent out to the replica system. The way I see it under DRBD or gluster replicate, only if the replica dies after receiving the write, followed by the primary dying after receiving the ack AND reporting the result to the user AND both drives in its mirror dying. Then would I have a consistency issue. I know it's not possible to guarantee 100% but I can live with this kind of probability as compared to a several seconds delay where several transactions/changes could have taken place before a replica receives an update. So how long do you wait if it is the replica that breaks? And how do you recover/sync later? I don't see how you can have transactional replication if the servers don't have to stay in sync, or how you can avoid being slowed down by the head motion of a good drive being replicated to a new mirror. There's just some physics involved that don't make sense. Sorry for the confusion, I don't mean no slow down or expect the underlying fs to be responsible for transactional replication. That's the job of the DBMS, I just need the fs replication not to fail in such a way that it could cause transactional integrity issue as noted in my reply above. That's a lot to ask. I'd like to be convinced it is possible. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 12:31 PM, R-Elists wrote: well taken i think centos should make manatory donation for support list or a few of their lists... What's a support list and how does it relate to CentOS where every request for change is countered with our policy is to be bug-for-bug compatible with upstream? I thought this was the CentOS _users_ list. revenue will do centos project/people good. I don't disagree with that, but I don't see how it relates to users answering other users' questions. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, 2010-08-05 at 10:31 -0700, R-Elists wrote: well taken i think centos should make manatory donation for support list or a few of their lists... Ahh ok so you want mind paying a fee to join my list and everybody elses? You had hell got to be crazy. Is not Open Source to be free? revenue will do centos project/people good. It may but that needs working on I think. then moderate - rh John ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 12:25 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? The major difference I've seen in that sort of request is that coders tend to ask for help with a small subset of the overall task (a routine) while erstwhile admins tend to ask for help with the totality of the task. When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different (although coders perhaps have to know more to even ask a reasonable question), just the responses. Coders seem much more likely to try to make their work available to others that haven't even asked while administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
Les Mikesell wrote: On 8/5/2010 12:25 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? The major difference I've seen in that sort of request is that coders tend to ask for help with a small subset of the overall task (a routine) while erstwhile admins tend to ask for help with the totality of the task. When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different (although coders perhaps have to know more to even ask a reasonable question), just the responses. Coders seem much more likely to try to make their work available to others that haven't even asked while administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. Mike, you seem to be misunderstanding - the lusers, like Hadi (sp?), are asking us to do their work for them, not help them to learn what they need to do it themselves. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: On 8/5/2010 12:25 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? The major difference I've seen in that sort of request is that coders tend to ask for help with a small subset of the overall task (a routine) while erstwhile admins tend to ask for help with the totality of the task. When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different (although coders perhaps have to know more to even ask a reasonable question), just the responses. Coders seem much more likely to try to make their work available to others that haven't even asked while administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. I guess I'm not convinced (though I'm really not trying to be stubborn or curmudgeonly :-). I'll grant that in both cases the request is essentially the same: Help me do this. When someone's this is their whole scripting project rather than a particular section of it, however, I guess I just roll my inner eye and delete the message. When someone has narrowed the question to a technological particular, I'm much more willing to assist. I realize the only difference is the scope of the question. Am I more inclined to treat the latter questioner as a willing learner and the former like a layabout? Is it simply that the larger the scope, the more reluctant I am to understand and contribute? Hmm. Must navel-gaze on this... -- Paul Heinlein heinl...@madboa.com http://www.madboa.com/ ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 11:51 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different I would guess that most sysadmin type scripts are under 100 LOC. I can't decide if the rare few KSLOC scripts push the median out to the low hundreds, or if the great number of short scripts drag that median down into the double digits. I think a similar bell curve exists for programs/systems complex enough to require coders -- professional software developers -- but that the scale is magnified by at least 10, maybe 100. If I had to pick a value, I'd say the median software project has 10,000 SLOC. The range extends from glorified shell script up into the millions of lines. The point is, a 20 line answer in each case is qualitatively different because it represents a different proportion of the task. administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. It's my experience that most short sysadmin type scripts on POSIXy systems are site-specific glue code. The generic parts are off in external programs or libraries that the scripts call. So, us coders are happy to maintain tar(1) and grep(1) and dialog(1) and whatnot for you sysadmin types, but we're not likely to write a one-off script that ties all these together to make a custom home directory backup system for you. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 02:02:51PM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Mike, you seem to be misunderstanding - the lusers, like Hadi (sp?), are asking us to do their work for them, not help them to learn what they need to do it themselves. It goes beyond that. The issue that sparked this long thread was the *repeating* nature of the support leech; not an isolated incident. Most people understand the first time it is pointed out to them that looking around on their own to find resolutions to their problems before falling back to this, or other similar lists, is of mutual benefit to not only the list(s), but more importantly themselves as it permits them to be more self-sustaining and self-supporting. Hadi had been asked, repeatedly, to at least make a minimal effort on his own; to date there has been *no* evidence of that happening. Not even once. So eventually enough becomes enough and people get snappish. And considering the audience of this list it's not remotely surprising that this is the case - many of us, I dare to say *most* of us, have learned to do our own research and not be as dependent upon others to support us. Why should this not be required of everyone? The world is full of what seems an entire generation of people that possess an air of entitlement from those around them and expect people to instantly drop what they are doing and do their jobs / school assignment / etc for them. Their are entire linux distros that, sadly, compound this problem. And, to be perfectly blunt about it, this is not helpful for anyone. We need more independent and self-supporting people in this world, not yet more consumers and leeches. John -- Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give offence. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html pgpUwHLixxEgH.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. The difference is (as before intimated) between open this jar and cook my meal, not between java/php/bash and C/C++. Perhaps (gazes into crystal balls) the root is whether the admin who posts here used to be a scientist or coder, or an office-ape (who will need help finding the 'any' key through no fault of their own). Trolls and students who aren't administrators are a separate possibility. *** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. www.Hubbell.com - Hubbell Incorporated** ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 1:02 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different (although coders perhaps have to know more to even ask a reasonable question), just the responses. Coders seem much more likely to try to make their work available to others that haven't even asked while administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. Mike, you seem to be misunderstanding - the lusers, like Hadi (sp?), are asking us to do their work for them, not help them to learn what they need to do it themselves. No, the part I don't understand is why you can't ignore any request where you are unwilling or unable to help. If everyone did, there would only be one or two messages on this thread instead of the current mess. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 08/05/2010 11:23 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: No, the part I don't understand is why you can't ignore any request where you are unwilling or unable to help. If everyone did, there would only be one or two messages on this thread instead of the current mess. +1 -- Benjamin Franz ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] access to file system through web browser
On 8/5/2010 12:02 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Les Mikesell wrote: On 8/4/2010 8:08 PM, Jobst Schmalenbach wrote: I am trying to find something (php prefered) that I can stick onto a Centos apache server that would allow me to browse a selected file system by employees through a web-browser explorer like interface. I know I can do this through WinSCP (and have done so), but my problem is I have Linux, Windows and MAC clients and my knowledge of MAC's is rather limited. snip So, you just need it for the Macs? For Linux, konqueror comes with every distro. Gnome/nautlius works over ssh too. Or install fuse-sshfs from epel and mount it so anything can use it. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
Benjamin Franz wrote: On 08/05/2010 11:23 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: No, the part I don't understand is why you can't ignore any request where you are unwilling or unable to help. If everyone did, there would only be one or two messages on this thread instead of the current mess. +1 The first job I did sysadmin work, a couple weeks after I started, my managers asked me if I'd be willing to pick up for a consultant rolling off, and I agreed. The next year, in addition to my ...late... wife, I was sleeping with Aeleen Frisch's Essential System Administration. The next year, when the division had grown from 4 teams to 27, and they brought in the corporate sysadmins to take the load off us, I was told there were exactly *two* teams whose servers looked right... and mine was one. The others ran the gamut to files all over, including in root, and everyone having the root password But I was willing to learn. I object to someone who isn't, coming in to mooch, and giving me at least as mch to wade through as this thread. Further, if we either ignored them, or did their jobs for them, we'd be inundated by folks who got a job they weren't qualified for, and aren't interested in learning how to do it, but just mooch off of others. I'll do their job for me if they pay me. This isn't writing code, mostly, that they're asking for, but how to run and configure. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 1:17 PM, John R. Dennison wrote: Hadi had been asked, repeatedly, to at least make a minimal effort on his own; to date there has been *no* evidence of that happening. So where would he have found an answer to the question that sparked this thread of non-answers: the one about installing a redhat version that didn't support USB on a USB disk? Not even once. So enlighten us - point us to where someone should go to find that answer. The world is full of what seems an entire generation of people that possess an air of entitlement from those around them and expect people to instantly drop what they are doing and do their jobs / school assignment / etc for them. Beg your pardon? Do you really drop things to answer list email? Ever? Their are entire linux distros that, sadly, compound this problem. Every incompatibility compounds the problem. It is designed in to every intentional difference in every system. And, to be perfectly blunt about it, this is not helpful for anyone. We need more independent and self-supporting people in this world, not yet more consumers and leeches. And you think you are going to get that by ranting about questions without even including a link? -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: To: centos@centos.org From: Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source On 8/5/2010 12:25 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? The major difference I've seen in that sort of request is that coders tend to ask for help with a small subset of the overall task (a routine) while erstwhile admins tend to ask for help with the totality of the task. When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different (although coders perhaps have to know more to even ask a reasonable question), just the responses. Coders seem much more likely to try to make their work available to others that haven't even asked while administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. What about a Centos newbies list. That way way they'll have to look for the answer amongst themselves. Once they have been approved on the newbie list, then allow them to post on this list? Kind Regards, Keith Roberts ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
Les Mikesell wrote: On 8/5/2010 1:17 PM, John R. Dennison wrote: snip The world is full of what seems an entire generation of people that possess an air of entitlement from those around them and expect people to instantly drop what they are doing and do their jobs / school assignment / etc for them. Beg your pardon? Do you really drop things to answer list email? Ever? snip Actually, yes, I have, esp. when it's something that I just had to fight recently, and see no need for someone else to fight the same problem. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 1:36 PM, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Benjamin Franz wrote: On 08/05/2010 11:23 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: No, the part I don't understand is why you can't ignore any request where you are unwilling or unable to help. If everyone did, there would only be one or two messages on this thread instead of the current mess. +1 The first job I did sysadmin work, a couple weeks after I started, my managers asked me if I'd be willing to pick up for a consultant rolling off, and I agreed. The next year, in addition to my ...late... wife, I was sleeping with Aeleen Frisch's Essential System Administration. The next year, when the division had grown from 4 teams to 27, and they brought in the corporate sysadmins to take the load off us, I was told there were exactly *two* teams whose servers looked right... and mine was one. The others ran the gamut to files all over, including in root, and everyone having the root password But I was willing to learn. I object to someone who isn't, coming in to mooch, and giving me at least as mch to wade through as this thread. Further, if we either ignored them, or did their jobs for them, we'd be inundated by folks who got a job they weren't qualified for, and aren't interested in learning how to do it, but just mooch off of others. I'll do their job for me if they pay me. This isn't writing code, mostly, that they're asking for, but how to run and configure. I understand your not doing it. No one has demanded that you do it. But why continue to clutter the list with much more than the thing you are complaining about? Questions can just go unanswered here - mine sometimes do. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 10:20:38AM -0700, R-Elists wrote: the point is enforcement somehow... Enforcement = suppression and suppression - consequences not elimination of the issue. why not require a small yearly donation for access to the list ??? 12 bucks a year? or more ? Not likely to make a difference and just likely to reduce the worth of the list as those who know quit bothering to subscribe. jerry donations cannot be taken back yet lusers can be moderated or terminated and to come back, they donate again - rh But what's the point? When you give away good, free stuff, people are naturally going to ask for more. The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 1:13 PM, Warren Young wrote: When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different I would guess that most sysadmin type scripts are under 100 LOC. I can't decide if the rare few KSLOC scripts push the median out to the low hundreds, or if the great number of short scripts drag that median down into the double digits. I think a similar bell curve exists for programs/systems complex enough to require coders -- professional software developers -- but that the scale is magnified by at least 10, maybe 100. If I had to pick a value, I'd say the median software project has 10,000 SLOC. The range extends from glorified shell script up into the millions of lines. Getting wildly philosophical here, but how much of those 10,000 SLOC are reused, or reusable, or should have been? How much could have been a few shell lines coordinating existing programs? How often to 10,000 SLOC projects fail and get thrown out? The point is, a 20 line answer in each case is qualitatively different because it represents a different proportion of the task. Not necessarily. administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. It's my experience that most short sysadmin type scripts on POSIXy systems are site-specific glue code. The generic parts are off in external programs or libraries that the scripts call. As they should be. And most non-script programs should be re-using libraries for the bulk of their work. The hard part is knowing which one to use. So, us coders are happy to maintain tar(1) and grep(1) and dialog(1) and whatnot for you sysadmin types, but we're not likely to write a one-off script that ties all these together to make a custom home directory backup system for you. You are exaggerating the difference. Look, for example, at the first release of backuppc (before the ambitious re-write of rsync in perl), which was both a conceptually simple sysadm-ish perl script layered on top of existing tools and an elegant coding job at the same time, handing other administrators a usable application instead of a toolbox to write his own incompatible mess. Every administrator needs to do approximately the same things for every machine, although it is made a lot harder by the designed-in incompatibilities the coders put there. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Manually mounting partitions in linux rescue mode
On Tuesday, August 03, 2010 12:07:58 am Edward Diener wrote: I boot from the installation DVD, with an already existing CentOS 5.5 system on my hard disks. I have separate boot, root, and home partitions. I have moved the boot partition and now I need to re-initialize grub from rescue mode. root (hd0,9) only to be met with: Error 21: Selected disk does not exist. Boot the rescue disc, go into a grub shell, and type find /grub/stage2 and this will tell you where grub thinks the /boot partition is by physically searching for the stage2 file. If you didn't have a /boot, then you'd: find /boot/grub/stage2 which on my laptop produces: grub find /boot/grub/stage2 find /boot/grub/stage2 (hd0,3) grub (which is what I would expect, since /boot is /dev/sda4; however, I've seen instances where /dev/sda did not correspond to (hd0); had one box with three SATA controllers where (hd0) was /dev/sde for some reason (the BIOS order and the Linux probe order were different, and grub goes by the BIOS order). Driver loading order in the initrd also can cause interesting effects. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 01:40:10PM -0500, Les Mikesell wrote: So where would he have found an answer to the question that sparked this thread of non-answers: the one about installing a redhat version that didn't support USB on a USB disk? There seems to be a disconnect here, and for the life of me I can not fathom as to why that may be. I believe it has been made abundantly clear that Hadi is, and will most likely continue to be, a leech. The issue that started this is no different than any other that he has brought to this list. You are free to think he did some work on his own, and you are free to think that the sun will rise in the west tomorrow; that does not make either true. So enlighten us - point us to where someone should go to find that answer. I am pretty sure that in a past post I alluded to google? And please spare me your past argument about it being difficult; I did not then, nor do I now, argue that. But with proper search criteria one can actually figure it out. And excuse me if that means that he, or others, have to do a little work because the proper answer may not be in the first result set google returns. You are, however, deluding yourself to think he bothered to do *any* such searching. Beg your pardon? Do you really drop things to answer list email? Ever? The list is not important enough for me to do so, no. But when I do bother to reply it means that I am not doing other things at the time, so effectively in the long run it pans out the same way. Nor does it change what I stated; people feel entitled for no explicable reason - sorry Les, I don't play that game. Every incompatibility compounds the problem. It is designed in to every intentional difference in every system. Um, ok? And you think you are going to get that by ranting about questions without even including a link? And you think that by my adding a link it will resolve the issue of people not doing their own research, and whom want that link in the first place? Disconnect? How is my adding a link addressing my comment of consumers and leeches? Perhaps I am just confused. *shrug* In my eyes, and my experience, leeches are best addressed by being ignored so that they are *forced* to do the work on their own, or at least making the effort to try to do so. Sadly there are those on this list and in life that feel no hesitancy in spoon-feeding such leeches the information and continue the whole cycle. I fear for the future when the people in charge are unable to stand on their own two feet to get the job done, because from where I stand that is exactly the road we are heading down. Hell, even back on chinet (you remember chinet?) I was told to RTFM by Suess, jcs, piggy, and others. They were all happy to help me after I had done so and guess what? Due to that, and to others of the same mindset I am independent and able to resolve my own issues; the *vast* majority of people on this list are the same way. We need to get back to that way of thinking. Now, if you'll pardon me, I need to get back to actual work :) John -- Much of what looks like rudeness in hacker circles is not intended to give offence. Rather, it's the product of the direct, cut-through-the-bullshit communications style that is natural to people who are more concerned about solving problems than making others feel warm and fuzzy. http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html pgp5ugqtsqUuM.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
no, i probably would join your list because it might be straight up doody. right? eh? ;-) open source doesnt mean free tech support to triple portion idiot morons on an email list present company excluded, of course ;-) - rh Ahh ok so you want mind paying a fee to join my list and everybody elses? You had hell got to be crazy. Is not Open Source to be free? John ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
On 8/6/10, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: If you are going to do that, why not also rely on the database engine's replication which is aware of the transactions? Databases rely on filesystem write ordering and fsync() actually working - things that aren't always reliable locally, much less when clustered. Mostly because I don't only need to set this up for databases only. I can't just say ok, the dbms can ensure transactional integrity as well as provide remote replication and ignore the other uses the system has to support. Also the secondary consideration that I need to be able to add more storage nodes easily so it seems to make more sense to use a single technology that can support both requirements. Of course in the end, budget/tech constraints might mean that I have to cut back somewhere eventually but it doesn't hurt to plan for things and then know what I'm cutting out. But there are lots of ways things can go wrong, and clustering just adds to them. What happens when your replica host dies? Or the network to it, or the disk where you expect the copy to land? And if you don't wait for a sync to disk, what happens if these things break after the remote accepted the buffer copy. All the nodes will have RAID 1 setup, I also plan on using at least 2 switches to provide network redundancy. In general, for the planned setup with minimal replicate delay, the only real disaster is if all 4 drives die at the same time. Otherwise I believe only a small window exist where very specific sequence of failures would cause problem and even so only likely for one or two transactions due to the time window. However, using a slower replicate method like zfs send/receive which is a command line thing, the time window enlarges significantly which even if causes reparable damage would take far more time to fix simply due to the fact much more transactions could be lost. The DB will offer a more optimized alternative. A VM image won't. I'm not quite sure what's the connection here. The database runs within the VM and is stored in the virtual disk. I'm not using VM to substitute for a database replication but to segregrate functionality. In a way, it would also allow me to pursue different redundancy arrangements if the original configuration is not ideal for one of the functions. But can you afford to wait for transactional guarantees on all that data that mostly doesn't matter? Possibly, but of course depends on result of actual testing once a final configuration is decided. Data integrity, redundancy and availability (during working hours anyway) are more important than absolute performance since server load are not usually that high. By the time the customer's load can place significant demands on the hardware, they should also have the budget for more orthodox/proven/expensive solutions :D So how long do you wait if it is the replica that breaks? And how do you recover/sync later? I'm not sure what wait are you referring to. Is that the wait before the chosen option decides to flag the node as down or the wait before replacing the replica machine or the wait until the system is fully redundant again with a sync'd replica? As for the actual recovery/sync, if a drive fails in the storage node, it would be straightforward case of replacing the drive and rebuilding the node's raid array wouldn't it? If the storage node fails, such as a mainboard problem, I'll replace/repair the node and put it back online, leaving gluster to self heal/resync. Gluster keeps versioning data so it would only sync changed files so that should be pretty fast. I could also stop both the servers at night, externally clone the drives, edit the necessary conf files on the new replica and so avoid mdraid trying to resync everything. Sorry for the confusion, I don't mean no slow down or expect the underlying fs to be responsible for transactional replication. That's the job of the DBMS, I just need the fs replication not to fail in such a way that it could cause transactional integrity issue as noted in my reply above. That's a lot to ask. I'd like to be convinced it is possible. It's not possible if I'm not wrong, we can always think of a situation or sequence of events that would break things. I'm just trying to pick one that would minimize the time that window of opportunity would exist hence zfs's send/receive as replication would not be a good option for live replication. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On 8/5/2010 2:50 PM, John R. Dennison wrote: So where would he have found an answer to the question that sparked this thread of non-answers: the one about installing a redhat version that didn't support USB on a USB disk? There seems to be a disconnect here, and for the life of me I can not fathom as to why that may be. I believe it has been made abundantly clear that Hadi is, and will most likely continue to be, a leech. The issue that started this is no different than any other that he has brought to this list. You are free to think he did some work on his own, and you are free to think that the sun will rise in the west tomorrow; that does not make either true. I guess I don't see how you get to the point of installing multiple linux distributions and run into a problem with one of them in one scenario without having done some of the work. i don't think he's just guessing that it will be a problem. So enlighten us - point us to where someone should go to find that answer. I am pretty sure that in a past post I alluded to google? Yes, but knowing how to spell google is not going to solve this problem. You, of course are free to think otherwise, but that doesn't make it true. You are, however, deluding yourself to think he bothered to do *any* such searching. I'm thinking it doesn't matter, because searching won't find the answer. Beg your pardon? Do you really drop things to answer list email? Ever? The list is not important enough for me to do so, no. But when I do bother to reply it means that I am not doing other things at the time, so effectively in the long run it pans out the same way. Nor does it change what I stated; people feel entitled for no explicable reason - sorry Les, I don't play that game. But you are playing a game. You don't have to reply to a message at all if you aren't going to give an answer. In my eyes, and my experience, leeches are best addressed by being ignored so that they are *forced* to do the work on their own, or at least making the effort to try to do so. Umm, OK, but... Hell, even back on chinet (you remember chinet?) Chinet is still alive and well, although in a bit different form. You should show up at one of the anniversary outings. I was told to RTFM by Suess, jcs, piggy, and others. But they would have told you which FM to R. No one here has done that yet. No place they could have sent you back then would have been as non-specific as google. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, 2010-08-05 at 13:14 -0700, R-Elists wrote: no, i probably would join your list because it might be straight up doody. Ok elaborate for me some more on this so I can get a complete idea in English. Do you mean would not in place of would? Do you mean to say it could be straight up shit? That it? John I only Speak English and Gullah and there is no such word as doody. Maybe a do'de' ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
At Thu, 5 Aug 2010 11:11:27 -0700 (PDT) CentOS mailing list centos@centos.org wrote: On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: On 8/5/2010 12:25 PM, Paul Heinlein wrote: On Thu, 5 Aug 2010, Les Mikesell wrote: The part I have trouble understanding is that while it seems perfectly acceptable to be dumb about most coding languages and ask for a canned routine to do something you are too lazy to write for yourself, the same does not apply to shell commands even though there is not much inherent difference in complexity. Is it just that coders are more willing to share their work than administrators even in cases where it is equally reusable? The major difference I've seen in that sort of request is that coders tend to ask for help with a small subset of the overall task (a routine) while erstwhile admins tend to ask for help with the totality of the task. When someone says, I'm writing a shell script, and hereabouts I need $TOOL to do such and such, a good answer is usually forthcoming. When someone says, Tell me how to script this $PROJECT, the commmunity usually points the OP off to Google/Manual. I don't think it is the nature of the requests that are different (although coders perhaps have to know more to even ask a reasonable question), just the responses. Coders seem much more likely to try to make their work available to others that haven't even asked while administrators pretend that everything they do is unique and not reusable - or they don't want it to be. I guess I'm not convinced (though I'm really not trying to be stubborn or curmudgeonly :-). I'll grant that in both cases the request is essentially the same: Help me do this. When someone's this is their whole scripting project rather than a particular section of it, however, I guess I just roll my inner eye and delete the message. When someone has narrowed the question to a technological particular, I'm much more willing to assist. I realize the only difference is the scope of the question. Am I more inclined to treat the latter questioner as a willing learner and the former like a layabout? Is it simply that the larger the scope, the more reluctant I am to understand and contribute? Hmm. Must navel-gaze on this... Note that often it is the case that the 'wider scope' questions are more vague and open ended (where the answer could be a whole book). Or maybe the question is just plain vague -- that is a kind of general non-specific question -- kind of like the 'ultimate' question in the Hitchhiker's Guide (answer: 42). And these vague, wide scope questions tend to suggest that the asker really does not know what to ask in the first place. And also suggests that the asker is not really interested in learning how to do whatever, but wants someone else to do the whole project and hand him/her the results on the perverbial 'silver platter'. -- Robert Heller -- Get the Deepwoods Software FireFox Toolbar! Deepwoods Software-- Linux Installation and Administration http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Web Hosting, with CGI and Database hel...@deepsoft.com -- Contract Programming: C/C++, Tcl/Tk ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
JohnS wrote: On Thu, 2010-08-05 at 13:14 -0700, R-Elists wrote: no, i probably would join your list because it might be straight up doody. snip Do you mean to say it could be straight up shit? That it? I only Speak English and Gullah and there is no such word as doody. Maybe a do'de' No, it's an old colloquial euphamism. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] who uses Lustre in production with virtual machines?
On 8/5/2010 3:52 PM, Emmanuel Noobadmin wrote: The DB will offer a more optimized alternative. A VM image won't. I'm not quite sure what's the connection here. The database runs within the VM and is stored in the virtual disk. I'm not using VM to substitute for a database replication but to segregrate functionality. In a way, it would also allow me to pursue different redundancy arrangements if the original configuration is not ideal for one of the functions. Just overall price/performance. If you can separate the parts that need transactional sync-to-replicated-disk from the things that don't, you can throw more resources at the difficult parts of the problem. So how long do you wait if it is the replica that breaks? And how do you recover/sync later? I'm not sure what wait are you referring to. Is that the wait before the chosen option decides to flag the node as down or the wait before replacing the replica machine or the wait until the system is fully redundant again with a sync'd replica? Both - since these are new and likely scenarios you are introducing. As for the actual recovery/sync, if a drive fails in the storage node, it would be straightforward case of replacing the drive and rebuilding the node's raid array wouldn't it? Yes, but that's slow and will affect the speed that normal writes can happen. If the storage node fails, such as a mainboard problem, I'll replace/repair the node and put it back online, leaving gluster to self heal/resync. Gluster keeps versioning data so it would only sync changed files so that should be pretty fast. That part sounds encouraging at least. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 05:11:51PM -0400, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: JohnS wrote: On Thu, 2010-08-05 at 13:14 -0700, R-Elists wrote: no, i probably would join your list because it might be straight up doody. snip Do you mean to say it could be straight up shit? That it? I only Speak English and Gullah and there is no such word as doody. Maybe a do'de' No, it's an old colloquial euphamism. Hrrm, in the Northeast US, at least, common. Sometimes spelled doodie. Often used, by children in insults such as doodie-head. (Which reminds me of a rather funny scene in the old Fresh Prince show, where after being called snake, evil, and the like, Will is also called doodie head, which is what gets him angry. ) Anyway, yes, legitimate word, with various nuances. Sigh, I don't believe I'm posting this, but oh well, I needed a three minute break. Anyone wanna migrate an old drupal to a new one for me? :) (Kidding folks, just kidding--or perhaps trying to keep the thread on topic?) -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: Vampires are creeps. Giles: Yes. That's why one slays them. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Dogs, trolls, and neighborly free/open source
On Thursday, August 05, 2010 05:26:12 pm Scott Robbins wrote: Often used, by children in insults such as doodie-head. Perhaps the phrase 'doodie thread' should be coined. Don't feed the trolls if you don't want a doodie thread. Dun G. Hill, author, in 'I feel a draught' ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] OT: Programming Need
Hey guys, Where is a good place people here have used with luck to find devs interested in work? I have a simple need involving an Axis M1031-W Camera I need an interface programmed for... Thanks! jlc ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] OT: Programming Need
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010, Joseph L. Casale wrote: Hey guys, Where is a good place people here have used with luck to find devs interested in work? The Seattle Unix Group has a moderated mailing list for members interested in jobs, contract work, etc. Send a message to the list at slug-j...@seaslug.org, preferably plain-text so it doesn't get caught in people's spam filters. I am the list moderator, and approve things as soon as I see them. Bill -- INTERNET: b...@celestial.com Bill Campbell; Celestial Software LLC URL: http://www.celestial.com/ PO Box 820; 6641 E. Mercer Way Voice: (206) 236-1676 Mercer Island, WA 98040-0820 Fax:(206) 232-9186 Skype: jwccsllc (206) 855-5792 You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence. -- Charles A. Beard ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD and dual monitors
Hi,Kevin (2010/08/04 23:44), CS_DBA wrote: Anyone know if the Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD will support dual monitors with CentOS ? Not supported GMA4500MHD(G45) with CentOS. This hardware is equipped with notebook and blue-ray home pc. CentOS/Upstream hardware supports until G40 VGA card. I guess its ok to run dual monitor with CentOS on 4500MHD, because G45 has a compatibility of G40 hardware. Some trouble noticed at wiki, If you want to enable all graphic features, run CentOS on vm with other latest distribution(Fedora/Ubuntu/Win7 etc.). Tsuyoshi ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] access to file system through web browser
Hi Using apache (either webdav or index) destroys the file permissions, on top of that I have to add the user that runs apache (nobody) to the group permissions having access to the file system. Most of my file systems do not have global access, only owner/group ... especially when it comes to data files ... WINSCP uses ssh, and ssh (when logged in) uses the file permissions that are used within the system. This is one of the prime reasons using WINSCP. The only way I can achieve keeping the permissions alive using either WINSCP (or derivatives) or a UI (php based) that interacts with the filessystem sthrough php based functions (imap,ftp,ssh). I found a few .. and there are some really good ones ... after I put the correct search terms in (thanks for that hint). http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=enq=php+file+browser Jobst On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 11:08:28AM +1000, Jobst Schmalenbach (jo...@barrett.com.au) wrote: Hi. I am trying to find something (php prefered) that I can stick onto a Centos apache server that would allow me to browse a selected file system by employees through a web-browser explorer like interface. I know I can do this through WinSCP (and have done so), but my problem is I have Linux, Windows and MAC clients and my knowledge of MAC's is rather limited. I can limit access to the (php) files to (ranges of) IP addresses, so security is reasonable ok and doing this through a web interface saves me time, too, as I only have to do this once, and security fixes is easy, too. Is there anything that would imitate a tree view like interface to browse a file system? Jobst -- She said she loved my mind, though by most accounts I had already lost it. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos -- 'I will go to Korea.' - Dwight D Eisenhower. | |0| | Jobst Schmalenbach, jo...@barrett.com.au, General Manager | | |0| Barrett Consulting Group P/L The Meditation Room P/L |0|0|0| +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
