Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-19 Thread Dag Wieers
On Mon, 16 May 2011, Johnny Hughes wrote: It will be released when it is released, if you don't like it then leave. Before I leave this list let me take you back about 7 years to the Whitebox mailinglist. You may not remember that Whitebox had a list of issues of its own, no timely updates,

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-19 Thread B.J. McClure
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 13:54 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2011, Johnny Hughes wrote: It will be released when it is released, if you don't like it then leave. Before I leave this list let me take you back about 7 years to the Whitebox mailinglist. You may not remember that

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-19 Thread Craig White
On Thu, 2011-05-19 at 13:54 +0200, Dag Wieers wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2011, Johnny Hughes wrote: It will be released when it is released, if you don't like it then leave. Before I leave this list let me take you back about 7 years to the Whitebox mailinglist. You may not remember that

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-19 Thread R - elists
Dag wrote: Before I leave this list let me take you back about 7 years to the Whitebox mailinglist. You may not remember that Whitebox had a list of issues of its own, no timely updates, no community effort, lack of good communication. It was mostly a one-man-effort. bummer to see you

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
Tom H wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic off...@plnet.rs wrote: Gordon Messmer wrote: On 05/15/2011 06:10 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote: Where is Ubuntu telling people exactly where they stand on producing a their new releases. What about Red Hat ... how about Fedora. I

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/18/11 5:05 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: Tom, you are way off the point I was making. RHEL, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, all other distro's are *developed* and can change at any time. You can track changes, contribute patches and track progress (if you have access). Anything you build at any

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Brunner, Brian T.
There's also a reasonable question about whether this process could be better automated, How do you *automate* a system where the fundamental rules change 'without notice to users'? in which case it becomes typical software development for programs that solve the dependencies and find and

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Lamar Owen
On Wednesday, May 18, 2011 09:23:14 AM Brunner, Brian T. wrote: Rebuilding somebody else's sources without their build environment isn't typical. It's MindReading 101. It's worse than that in the specific case of EL6. It's replicating the result without replicating the build system. It's a

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Tom H
On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: On 5/18/11 5:05 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: Tom, you are way off the point I was making. RHEL, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, all other distro's are *developed* and can change at any time. That's why I said he should've

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/18/2011 8:23 AM, Brunner, Brian T. wrote: There's also a reasonable question about whether this process could be better automated, How do you *automate* a system where the fundamental rules change 'without notice to users'? You have the results you want to reproduce. You have a list

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/18/2011 08:01 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: It was discussed, but that doesn't change anyone's mindset about open vs. closed processes or whether being more open and permitting community insight and participation would ultimately keep the project from going the way of Whitebox. Hello

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-18 Thread Emmanuel Noobadmin
On 5/19/11, Johnny Hughes joh...@centos.org wrote: Can we do a better job at some things, sure. But trust me, CentOS is going nowhere. I think you might mean CentOS is not going away since going nowhere fast or slow is bad news for those waiting for the next version ;)

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-17 Thread John Doe
Maybe all the non-technical discussions could go into a CentOS Politics/Philosophy new list...? JD ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-17 Thread Benjamin Franz
On 05/16/2011 02:44 PM, ne...@grayhatlabs.com wrote: I never thought sliced bread was all that great. Wouldn't it be better for people to donate money to help push things along faster? I mean if your really upset about how long its taken to come out why don't you donate some money to help the

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-17 Thread Scott Silva
on 5/16/2011 3:08 PM R P Herrold spake the following: snip [I see 14 new posts within the past hour that composing this piece has taken ... If I had known the comment by 'Radu Gheorghiu' was coming, about 'waiting for somebody to come and fill their pockets', I would have spent it

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-17 Thread Scott Silva
on 5/16/2011 2:45 PM cen...@911networks.com spake the following: On Mon, 16 May 2011 13:47:30 -0500 Johnny Hughes joh...@centos.org wrote: Can't you ungrateful bastards take the free software I make by following the licensing requirements and be happy with that? Johnny please don't take

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-17 Thread m . roth
Scott Silva wrote: on 5/16/2011 3:08 PM R P Herrold spake the following: snip [I see 14 new posts within the past hour that composing this piece has taken ... If I had known the comment by 'Radu Gheorghiu' was coming, about 'waiting for somebody to come and fill their pockets', I would have

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux) (not)

2011-05-17 Thread m . roth
Johnny Hughes wrote: On 05/17/2011 09:46 AM, Scott Silva wrote: on 5/16/2011 3:08 PM R P Herrold spake the following: snip [I see 14 new posts within the past hour that composing this piece has taken ... If I had known the comment by 'Radu Gheorghiu' was coming, about 'waiting for somebody

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux) (not)

2011-05-17 Thread Scott Silva
on 5/17/2011 9:36 AM m.r...@5-cent.us spake the following: Johnny Hughes wrote: On 05/17/2011 09:46 AM, Scott Silva wrote: on 5/16/2011 3:08 PM R P Herrold spake the following: snip [I see 14 new posts within the past hour that composing this piece has taken ... If I had known the comment by

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux) (not)

2011-05-17 Thread Christopher Chan
On Wednesday, May 18, 2011 02:58 AM, Scott Silva wrote: on 5/17/2011 9:36 AM m.r...@5-cent.us spake the following: Johnny Hughes wrote: On 05/17/2011 09:46 AM, Scott Silva wrote: on 5/16/2011 3:08 PM R P Herrold spake the following: snip [I see 14 new posts within the past hour that

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-17 Thread Ralph Angenendt
Am 17.05.11 13:37, schrieb Benjamin Franz: On 05/16/2011 02:44 PM, ne...@grayhatlabs.com wrote: I never thought sliced bread was all that great. Wouldn't it be better for people to donate money to help push things along faster? I mean if your really upset about how long its taken to come

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-17 Thread Tom H
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic off...@plnet.rs wrote: Gordon Messmer wrote: On 05/15/2011 06:10 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote: Where is Ubuntu telling people exactly where they stand on producing a their new releases. What about Red Hat ... how about Fedora. I don't know

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Dag Wieers
On Thu, 12 May 2011, Johnny Hughes wrote: On 05/12/2011 10:09 AM, Craig White wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 2:05 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:08 AM, Mark Bradbury mark.bradb...@gmail.com wrote: Do you expect the C6.0 - C6.1 differences to be more complex, or less complex

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Dag Wieers d...@wieers.com wrote: On Thu, 12 May 2011, Johnny Hughes wrote: The ZERO release is always going to take longer than the others. Past numbers debunks this myth:     CentOS 4.0 took 23 days     CentOS 5.0 took 28 days     CentOS 6.0 is not

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/16/2011 02:44 AM, Dag Wieers wrote: On Thu, 12 May 2011, Johnny Hughes wrote: On 05/12/2011 10:09 AM, Craig White wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 2:05 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:08 AM, Mark Bradbury mark.bradb...@gmail.com wrote: Do you expect the C6.0 - C6.1

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R. Dennison
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 11:32:15AM +0200, Dag Wieers wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2011, Ron Blizzard wrote: Why constantly cast CentOS in the darkest possible light? I don't think that's what I am doing. I commended Johnny for his very quick CentOS 4.9 release, but I honestly can not praise a

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/16/2011 04:32 AM, Dag Wieers wrote: On Mon, 16 May 2011, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 2:44 AM, Dag Wieers d...@wieers.com wrote: On Thu, 12 May 2011, Johnny Hughes wrote: The ZERO release is always going to take longer than the others. Past numbers debunks this myth:

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/15/2011 05:12 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote: The process around building CentOS has traditionally been very secretive, which makes the name *Community* Enterprise OS seem very inapt. The community in CentOS that you write about was NEVER about building CentOS. We have never said that anyone

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Brunner, Brian T.
Can you take this off-list? I am REALLY tired of reading non-CentOS stuff. Please keep it here. CentOS vs SL and CentOS vs Ubuntu are as on-topic as anything else. Since TUV stopped supporting my non-PAE processors, I am obliged to find a new home. Ubuntu is one of the options. Insert spiffy

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Christopher Chan
On Monday, May 16, 2011 09:11 PM, Brunner, Brian T. wrote: Can you take this off-list? I am REALLY tired of reading non-CentOS stuff. Please keep it here. CentOS vs SL and CentOS vs Ubuntu are as on-topic as anything else. Since TUV stopped supporting my non-PAE processors, I am obliged to

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/16/2011 5:05 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: We have never said that anyone but the project would build it. But you also didn't say that the project would lack the resources to do it in a timely manner or handle concurrent updates. In fact, I thought the project used to post goals for

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Craig White
On May 15, 2011, at 3:52 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: You're leaving out release 4.9. You're also leaving out the fact that two major holidays occurred during the time *frame* that these three releases needed to be built. You're also leaving out the fact (as mentioned by one of the developers)

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/16/2011 11:11 AM, Craig White wrote: but you're leaving out a very important distinction - SL released all the updates so the lack of a 5.6 release by SL is merely the installer disc's which is significant only to people who are looking to install SL on hardware that is newly

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/16/2011 10:41 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: On 5/16/2011 5:05 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: We have never said that anyone but the project would build it. But you also didn't say that the project would lack the resources to do it in a timely manner or handle concurrent updates. In fact, I

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/16/2011 12:27 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote: The point is that we do not have a system built that can track that sort of stuff ... and we can either build packages or design systems to track stuff. You don't really have to design a system for build automation/tracking since there are several

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R Pierce
On 05/16/11 11:24 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: it is somewhat unsettling to think that the project itself considers that to be a problem. consider what might happen if a core build server for a project as widely used as centos gets penetrated and carefully targetted to slip trojans unnoticed into

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/16/2011 01:24 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: On 5/16/2011 12:27 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote: The point is that we do not have a system built that can track that sort of stuff ... and we can either build packages or design systems to track stuff. You don't really have to design a system for

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Scott Silva
on 5/16/2011 11:47 AM Johnny Hughes spake the following: Can't you ungrateful bastards take the free software I make by following the licensing requirements and be happy with that? I hear ya Johnny... The only hurry I am in over 6 getting out is that FINALLY some of the whining will stop... For

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/16/2011 1:47 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote: Agreed on the security comment, hence the concern about timely updates. It is pretty much a given that any public site will be hit with all known exploit attempts, but it is somewhat unsettling to think that the project itself considers that to

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/16/2011 1:43 PM, John R Pierce wrote: On 05/16/11 11:24 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: it is somewhat unsettling to think that the project itself considers that to be a problem. consider what might happen if a core build server for a project as widely used as centos gets penetrated and

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R Pierce
On 05/16/11 12:38 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: I believe that by making the process and its problems public, someone will help solve those problems as they do in many, many other projects where the work is open. a very wise man[1] once said adding more bodies to a late project just makes it later.

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/16/2011 02:46 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: On 5/16/2011 1:43 PM, John R Pierce wrote: On 05/16/11 11:24 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: it is somewhat unsettling to think that the project itself considers that to be a problem. consider what might happen if a core build server for a project as

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/16/2011 2:52 PM, John R Pierce wrote: On 05/16/11 12:38 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: I believe that by making the process and its problems public, someone will help solve those problems as they do in many, many other projects where the work is open. a very wise man[1] once said adding more

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Nicolas Thierry-Mieg
Johnny Hughes wrote: There is not a server in the world that I could not break into if I was on the same subnet ... and I am not even that smart. maybe but you have the distinct advantage of having your private trojans in every centos system out there ;-)

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Janne TH. Nyman
JNixus Nyman Founder of Newman IT Solutions Ltd -Original Message- From: centos-requ...@centos.org Reply-to: centos@centos.org To: centos@centos.org Subject: CentOS Digest, Vol 76, Issue 16 Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 12:00:02 -0400 Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Louis Lagendijk
On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 19:40 +0100, Janne TH. Nyman wrote: Who cares? I find it amazing that these guys still keep on building and providing considering how their users treat them. Team CentOS, keep your heads up. For me, you are still the best thing that happened since sliced bread. Come

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R Pierce
On 05/16/11 1:18 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: Yes, but whatever can't be automated here should benefit from doing the trial-and-error in parallel. And the potential improvements might come in the automation process as much as the grunge work - you can't really predict how an open project will

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Les Mikesell
On 5/16/2011 3:38 PM, John R Pierce wrote: On 05/16/11 1:18 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: Yes, but whatever can't be automated here should benefit from doing the trial-and-error in parallel. And the potential improvements might come in the automation process as much as the grunge work - you can't

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but whatever can't be automated here should benefit from doing the trial-and-error in parallel.   And the potential improvements might come in the automation process as much as the grunge work - you can't really

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 1:40 PM, Janne TH. Nyman jny...@jbtec.org wrote: Who cares? I find it amazing that these guys still keep on building and providing considering how their users treat them. Team CentOS, keep your heads up. For me, you are still the best thing that happened since sliced

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Brian Mathis
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Janne TH. Nyman jny...@jbtec.org wrote: Who cares? I find it amazing that these guys still keep on building and providing considering how their users treat them. Team CentOS, keep your heads up. For me, you are still the best thing that happened since sliced

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: No, but I'm not the only member of the public.  And your suggestion of starting by reproducing someone else's work from scratch instead of building on it would be like Linus telling everyone to just write their own

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Radu Gheorghiu
On 05/16/2011 11:50 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: On 5/16/2011 3:38 PM, John R Pierce wrote: On 05/16/11 1:18 PM, Les Mikesell wrote: Yes, but whatever can't be automated here should benefit from doing the trial-and-error in parallel. And the potential improvements might come in the automation

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R Pierce
On 05/16/11 1:51 PM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Les Mikeselllesmikes...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, but whatever can't be automated here should benefit from doing the trial-and-error in parallel. And the potential improvements might come in the automation process as

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R. Dennison
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 03:51:22PM -0500, Ron Blizzard wrote: You know Les, you're talking in hypotheticals. Johnny and the other CentOS developers are actually *doing* the work. Everything is easy when you're not actually doing it. If you know so much about *how* it should be done, why

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Craig White
On May 16, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: Now, not only do I need to bust my ass to provide it to you for free, but I also need to do other things for you to. I need to provide you access to stuff and I need to track things in a different way and I need to setup elaborate systems.

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Brian Mathis These kind of ass-kissing posts are even worse than the flame wars. The flame wars at least usually start with some sort of reasonable criticism of the project, and have the *potential* to result in a discussion that ultimately improves the

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R. Dennison
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 04:59:42PM -0400, Brian Mathis wrote: Flame wars only start once Johnny or some sycophant tells everyone to fuck off, thereby derailing any potential for a constructive discussion. At that point you're left with lots of very smart, very angry people who feel like they

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Radu Gheorghiu r...@pengooin.net wrote: The main fear the developers have is that somebody could steal their work and come up with another RHEL clone easily if they release their build system scripts. I think this is obvious by now. It is also pretty obvious

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/16/2011 04:10 PM, Craig White wrote: On May 16, 2011, at 11:47 AM, Johnny Hughes wrote: Now, not only do I need to bust my ass to provide it to you for free, but I also need to do other things for you to. I need to provide you access to stuff and I need to track things in a

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R. Dennison
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 02:10:28PM -0700, Craig White wrote: can't say that in all the years I've been using FOSS/Linux that I've ever seen the maintainers have such open disdain for their users. You're missing the point. The disdain, if that's truly what Johnny is feeling, is only

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Craig White craig.wh...@ttiltd.com wrote: can't say that in all the years I've been using FOSS/Linux that I've ever seen the maintainers have such open disdain for their users. Clearly they have gotten a massive code base for free and though the cost of

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Scott Silva
on 5/16/2011 11:40 AM Janne TH. Nyman spake the following: Who cares? I find it amazing that these guys still keep on building and providing considering how their users treat them. Team CentOS, keep your heads up. For me, you are still the best thing that happened since sliced bread. I

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Radu Gheorghiu
On 05/17/2011 12:15 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Radu Gheorghiur...@pengooin.net wrote: The main fear the developers have is that somebody could steal their work and come up with another RHEL clone easily if they release their build system scripts. I think this

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread nemus
on 5/16/2011 11:40 AM Janne TH. Nyman spake the following: Who cares? I find it amazing that these guys still keep on building and providing considering how their users treat them. Team CentOS, keep your heads up. For me, you are still the best thing that happened since sliced bread. I

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread centos
On Mon, 16 May 2011 13:47:30 -0500 Johnny Hughes joh...@centos.org wrote: Can't you ungrateful bastards take the free software I make by following the licensing requirements and be happy with that? Johnny please don't take this personally. I don't know who came with the expression: When you

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Brian Mathis
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Ron Blizzard rb4cen...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Brian Mathis These kind of ass-kissing posts are even worse than the flame wars. The flame wars at least usually start with some sort of reasonable criticism of the project, and have the

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R Pierce
On 05/16/11 2:41 PM, Radu Gheorghiu wrote: I never said I want to do it. ah, so what DID you say? you want someone unspecified to do a better/different job for you than someone else is already doing for free ? man, its easy to volunteer other people from the comfort of your desk. -- john r

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Radu Gheorghiu
On 05/17/2011 12:47 AM, John R Pierce wrote: On 05/16/11 2:41 PM, Radu Gheorghiu wrote: I never said I want to do it. ah, so what DID you say? you want someone unspecified to do a better/different job for you than someone else is already doing for free ? man, its easy to volunteer other

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R. Dennison
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:41:23AM +0300, Radu Gheorghiu wrote: On 05/17/2011 12:15 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: What a load of undiluted crap. Please keep this for yourself. Why when it's the truth. Does the truth hurt? I never said I want to do it. I only said what the devs are obviously

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Radu Gheorghiu
On 05/17/2011 12:51 AM, John R. Dennison wrote: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:41:23AM +0300, Radu Gheorghiu wrote: On 05/17/2011 12:15 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: What a load of undiluted crap. Please keep this for yourself. Why when it's the truth. Does the truth hurt? It may be the truth from

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread John R. Dennison
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:55:59AM +0300, Radu Gheorghiu wrote: If some of you can't say anything smarter than crap, then please Please do the rest of us a favor and take your own advice. John -- People learn something every day, and a lot of

[CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread R P Herrold
On Tue, 17 May 2011, Radu Gheorghiu wrote: The main fear the developers have is that somebody could steal their work and come up with another RHEL clone easily if they release their build system scripts. I think this is obvious by now. 'obvious' to you or not, such is not the case with

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Stephen Harris
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 06:08:47PM -0400, R P Herrold wrote: other RPM based, upstream derived, rebuild projects out there as well, that a person has to look closely, and know the history, or read the sources, to see where they came from And then there's commercial projects, such as Citrix

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Gordon Messmer
On 05/15/2011 06:10 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote: Where is Ubuntu telling people exactly where they stand on producing a their new releases. What about Red Hat ... how about Fedora. I don't know about Ubuntu, I don't use it. Fedora, on the other hand publishes their schedule:

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Gordon Messmer
On 05/15/2011 07:00 PM, Ron Blizzard wrote: So, when you take 5.6 out of the mix (taking into account the three releases at once), the average time from Red Hat 5.x release to CentOS 5.x release is 41.5 days. And 5.5 was 44 days. Your point? There is a general trend toward longer delays

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Brian Mathis The constant drip drip drip, as you put it, is generated from the disrespect shown to the users, not the other way around.  Anyone who asks how much longer or how they can help is immediately slapped down and told to go away. Bullcrap. I've seen

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
Janne TH. Nyman wrote: Who cares? I find it amazing that these guys still keep on building and providing considering how their users treat them. Team CentOS, keep your heads up. For me, you are still the best thing that happened since sliced bread. Come on, community, where is your love?

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
Gordon Messmer wrote: On 05/15/2011 06:10 PM, Johnny Hughes wrote: Where is Ubuntu telling people exactly where they stand on producing a their new releases. What about Red Hat ... how about Fedora. I don't know about Ubuntu, I don't use it. Fedora, on the other hand publishes their

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread aurfalien
Same weekly/bi-monthly BS. YAA It always circles back to a#$holes and elbows. - aurf ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:17 PM, aurfal...@gmail.com wrote: Same weekly/bi-monthly BS. YAA It always circles back to a#$holes and elbows. This is the main reason I want CentOS 6 to come out. I'm hoping for a lull in the whining. -- RonB -- Using CentOS 5.6

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread aurfalien
On May 16, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:17 PM, aurfal...@gmail.com wrote: Same weekly/bi-monthly BS. YAA It always circles back to a#$holes and elbows. This is the main reason I want CentOS 6 to come out. I'm hoping for a lull in the whining.

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:25 PM, aurfal...@gmail.com wrote: On May 16, 2011, at 5:22 PM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:17 PM,  aurfal...@gmail.com wrote: Same weekly/bi-monthly BS. YAA It always circles back to a#$holes and elbows. This is the main reason I want

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Brian Mathis
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Ron Blizzard rb4cen...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Brian Mathis The constant drip drip drip, as you put it, is generated from the disrespect shown to the users, not the other way around.  Anyone who asks how much longer or how they can

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Brian Mathis People don't complain just for the fun of it (if that's the world you live in, I feel sorry for you), they complain because something is bothering them.  In this case, it is the very real and measurable delays in releases that seem to be getting

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-16 Thread Christopher Chan
On Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:37 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: And, by the way, not directed specifically at you, but reading between the lines it appears that one issue may be that some contractors are selling cheap Red Hat to their customers and then, when the customers ask Where's the update?

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Gordon Messmer
On 05/12/2011 02:05 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: But at that time there should only be one point release on the table, instead of two point releases and one major release. Is everyone forgetting that 4.9, 5.6 and 6.0 were all out at the same time? As far as users know, all work on 6.0 was postponed

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Gordon Messmer yiny...@eburg.com wrote: On 05/12/2011 02:05 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: But at that time there should only be one point release on the table, instead of two point releases and one major release. Is everyone forgetting that 4.9, 5.6 and 6.0 were all

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Michel Donais
A perhaps stupid question from a newby Why 4.9 is out in a so long time frame after 5.0? 5.6 -- CentOS - 4/8/11SL - (Soon) -- same time frame (1 of 3) 5.5 -- CentOS - 5/14/10 SL - 5/19/10 5.4 -- CentOS - 10/21/9 SL -

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Dotan Cohen
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 16:35, Michel Donais don...@telupton.com wrote: A perhaps stupid question from a newby Why 4.9 is out in a so long time frame after 5.0?                       5.6 -- CentOS - 4/8/11    SL - (Soon)   -- same time frame (1 of 3)                       5.5 -- CentOS -

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/15/2011 08:41 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 16:35, Michel Donais don...@telupton.com wrote: A perhaps stupid question from a newby Why 4.9 is out in a so long time frame after 5.0? 5.6 -- CentOS - 4/8/11SL - (Soon) -- same time frame (1 of

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Gordon Messmer
On 05/15/2011 03:52 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:11 AM, Gordon Messmeryiny...@eburg.com wrote: As far as users know, all work on 6.0 was postponed to get 5.6 done. At the time of 5.6's release, it was the only release the team was working on. Work on 5 should have been

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Gordon Messmer yiny...@eburg.com wrote: No, I'm not.  Neither I nor Dag, as far as I saw, brought SL into the conversation at all.  The question is not whether CentOS can build releases in less time than SL, or even a reasonable amount of time.  The question

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Gordon Messmer
On 05/15/2011 02:23 PM, Ron Blizzard wrote: Obviously I missed the part where I (or someone) said (or claimed) that 6.1 could be done in a month. Well, that is where this branch of the thread began. http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2011-May/111443.html Ljubomir Ljubojevic began the

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Johnny Hughes
On 05/15/2011 05:12 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote: On 05/15/2011 02:23 PM, Ron Blizzard wrote: Obviously I missed the part where I (or someone) said (or claimed) that 6.1 could be done in a month. Well, that is where this branch of the thread began.

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-15 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 5:12 PM, Gordon Messmer yiny...@eburg.com wrote: Look at wikipedia's page describing CentOS.  They include a column for the delay between the upstream release and CentOS's.  For the 5 series, it looks like: Release Delay 5       28d 5.1     25d 5.2     34d 5.3    

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-14 Thread Ljubomir Ljubojevic
Tom H wrote: On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 8:50 PM, Christopher Chan christopher.c...@bradbury.edu.hk wrote: On Saturday, May 14, 2011 01:30 AM, Craig White wrote: CentOS has always been a take it or leave it proposition and thus nothing has really changed except that many businesses have become

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-13 Thread Craig White
On May 12, 2011, at 4:47 PM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Craig White craig.wh...@ttiltd.com wrote: On May 12, 2011, at 2:05 AM, Ron Blizzard wrote: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 1:08 AM, Mark Bradbury mark.bradb...@gmail.com wrote: Do you expect the C6.0 - C6.1

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-13 Thread Ron Blizzard
On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Craig White craig.wh...@ttiltd.com wrote: Lastly, Johnny has made clear that this is not supposed to be an SL discussion list but curiously enough, SL is invoked by those who want to use SL to justify the alacrity of the CentOS 6.0 release. As was pointed

Re: [CentOS] EL 6 rollout strategies? (Scientific Linux)

2011-05-13 Thread Christopher Chan
On Saturday, May 14, 2011 01:30 AM, Craig White wrote: CentOS has always been a take it or leave it proposition and thus nothing has really changed except that many businesses have become reliant upon it and I see my company and many other companies turning to Ubuntu not just because of

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