CSS is perfect for positioning once you understand how to use it and
some of
the quirks between browsers.
The problem is taht there is no if(IE)... else... possibility in CSS
It's not in the CSS spec, but there are techniques for hiding/showing CSS to
IE (conditional comments, CSS hacks).
I think basically we are saying that there isn't a layer object (cept in NN
4...) but there is a layer concept...
-Original Message-
From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:44 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of
Thanks for the tip, Larry.
I happened to run into an example of CSS that used display: block
to achieve vertical alignment of elements...interesting...
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:06 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject:
Hello all,
I have a client who is an SEO guru, and so prefers that I use css for layout
positioning, as the code overhead is much less, and thus gets the page
content (which search engines are looking for) up closer to the body tag.
I can't stand it! Seems like all browsers have different
From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
CSS is great for text formatting, and setting background
colors/images, but for positioning...terrible. Seems like
very few real world applications need things like layering
and absolute positioning anyway. Tables are more reliable
and
CSS is perfect for positioning once you understand how to use it and
some of
the quirks between browsers.
The problem is taht there is no if(IE)... else... possibility in CSS
--
___
REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
See
there is no if about it, the problem is ie, hell i'm trying to get my 3 yr
old niece a job at microsoft so that she can at least give them someone smart
enough to implement png support (which i wouldnt care some about there crappy
box model if i could at least get that)
claude there are
I stumbled across this while researching something else. I thought it
fits into the topi, sort of.
It's kind neat.
http://www.activewidgets.com/grid/
Dave
On Sep 9, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Rick Root wrote:
Rick,
Are you asking us how to pound in a nail without using a hammer?
I see from the
Thanks for the insight and pointers, David.
I'll definitely check out your project.
Rick
Another option is to use a combination of div's (equivalent of the
table/table tags) and unordered list elements with a display: block; for
each data row.
regards,
larry
Don't try it... you have a perfectly good system, no reason to throw it
away.
Matthew Small
-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:20 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
I've always used tables to display my data from queries.
Now, I've begun to be interested more in using CSS and Layers.
What's wrong with tables?
--
___
REUSE CODE! Use custom tags;
See http://www.contentbox.com/claude/customtags/tagstore.cfm
(Please send
one thing to bear in mind is that tables are NOT inherently evil. even in a
CSS world, they serve a purpose (to display tabular data).
prior shortcomings in browsers meant that they were used for layout, which
is what you want to move away from when you move towards CSS.
Since you mention
Don't try it... you have a perfectly good system, no reason to throw it
away.
Matthew Small
welll nothing to gain but faster rendering and greater flexibility in
display ;-)
.and my CSS guru buddy has shown me that it is possible to go tableless
;-)
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP
-Original Message-
From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:20 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
Dynamic Data?
Hi, all...
I've always used tables to display my data from queries.
Now,
The problem with tables is regards to using them for layout. If you've
got tabular data just use a table :)
--
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include stdjoke.h
But you'll lose your mind doing it. :-)
Matthew Small
Web Developer
American City Business Journals
704-973-1045
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Original Message-
From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:30 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers
One of the things I always hear developers talking about is
separating the layout/design/presentation from the data/code. CSS is
really great way to do that. All you have to do is present very
simple html code and CSS can do the rest.
Here is a project that I am developing right now that we
On 9/9/05, Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Don't try it... you have a perfectly good system, no reason to throw it
away.
Matthew Small
welll nothing to gain but faster rendering and greater flexibility in
display ;-)
.and my CSS guru buddy has shown me that it is
But you'll lose your mind doing it. :-)
Matthew Small
ahhhbut that happened long ago ;-)
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:
That's what I'm wondering...I've got a system, while not flawless,
works very well...and I've learned a lot of tricks and tweaks to
working with tables. I work with tables primarily for design, but
apply styles to the tables and cells...
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Matthew Small
Nothing wrong with them...I was just wondering if CSS and Layers
was somehow superior and preferable to working with tables...looking
for input from designers / developers with more CSS and Layers
experience than I have before bothering with learning a new way to do
things.
Rick
-Original
Never said it wasn't possible. The question is, why would you want to if
you're displaying tabular data?
--
Charlie Griefer
I'll type it slower this time for you Charlie ;-)
welll nothing to gain but faster rendering and greater flexibility in
display ;-)
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP
Yes, tables do make sense for tabular data display...it's intuitive for me
to think in terms of query rows and table rows...I just wondered if the
CSS and Layers approach had some superior way of working with
not just general design, but, especially in displaying dynamic data...
Rick
Without perstering you for too much detail...how does
CSS and Layers display query data without using tables?
Are div's expandable like tables? Do you have to still use tables
within div's?
I know there's a lot I don't understand...I just thought I'd ask a few
probing questions before spending
Tables aren't evil.
Are you sure? I've had some evil things happen when working
with tables before...and I'm *certain* they were to blame and not me! ;o)
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Jim Davis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject:
Keep in mind that you can apply CSS and layers in conjunction with tables. In
the case of displaying dynamic data, whether you use a table or not depends on
the kind of data being displayed.
As an example, I've been playing with the design of a webmail client I built.
You can get the current
Thanks for the insight and pointers, David.
I'll definitely check out your project.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: David Livingston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:58 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
I'm not the CSS gurubut I'll imaprt what wisdom I've gleanded
Are div's expandable like tables? Do you have to still use tables
within div's?
AFAIK if you don't apply a height or width they will expand/collapse based
on what's in them
I believe that each cell in a table is
You should be aware that when you're talking about layers you're not
really referring to an actual CSS thingy. That's Dreamweaver's way of
explaining CSS in a visual environment. There's no such thing as a layer
really - just divs and other markup that's positioned via CSS.
There are
Thanks for the input, Robert...I'll check out your work.
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Robert Munn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
Dynamic Data?
Keep in mind that you
On 9/9/05, Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Never said it wasn't possible. The question is, why would you want to if
you're displaying tabular data?
--
Charlie Griefer
I'll type it slower this time for you Charlie ;-)
welll nothing to gain but faster rendering and
From: Deanna Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
Dynamic Data?
You should be aware that when you're talking about layers you're not
really referring
Thanks Bryan...if I pursue this and develop some usable techniques
I'll definitely pass them on.
I guess I'm just interested, too, in learning something new...trying to
break out of a design rut, but have to make sure that the design
techniques accommodate dyamic data...perhaps pure CSS and
sorry...still too fast. come again?
:)
--
Charlie Griefer
LOL!
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com
Thanks for the advice, Deanna.
Got to get to know those div's...and I really couldn't see,
at lease initially, how CSS could make displaying tabular data
earier than displaying it in a tabular design, i.e., tables...
The reuse aspect of sites has always been something I've
been interested in
Maybe you just need to read it faster, Charlie... ;o)
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:28 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
Dynamic Data?
On 9/9/05, Bryan
Okay, yah, that's true. I stand corrected. But, I still think it sounds like
he's using the DW layer mumbo jumbo. But, I could be totally wrong. As we
said in our family , 10 seconds (as in please rewind 10 seconds and then
go on with your regularly scheduled programming).
On 9/9/05, Bryan
Rick,
Are you asking us how to pound in a nail without using a hammer?
I see from the numerous responses that I've missed a holy war.
Tables are for tabular data. There is no better way to display tabular
data than using a table. Even a CSS guru will tell you that.
Alternatively, you could
Actually as wars go on this list this one is pretty tame :)
I have yet to hear anyone's mother mentioned.
-Original Message-
From: Rick Root [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:06 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for
Nah...I've seen true Holy Wars on this list...this has been a civil,
informative exchange.
I'm seeing that a combination of CSS for design and tables for
data may be a good way to proceed in further development...
I'll have to start some experimenting.
Rick
-Original Message-
From:
Yeah, CSS is by far the most superior method to giving yourself the
biggest headache ever imaginable. I've been doing A LOT of css research
and I am still going to use a large table for general layout and then
divs within that. Don't get me wrong, css for styling is great, it just
sucks for
On 9/9/05, Rick Root [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(snip)
Tables are for tabular data. There is no better way to display tabular
data than using a table. Even a CSS guru will tell you that.
(snip)
easy there...when i said that, i was accused of being a slow reader :D
--
Charlie Griefer
You just gotta be very careful if you're ever planning on building a
site that is ADA compliant (which you should try to do anyways).
Tweaked table layouts are very difficult for screen readers to handle so
that's a big push for CSS websites. However, you still can build sites
that are ADA
Actually as wars go on this list this one is pretty tame :)
I have yet to hear anyone's mother mentioned.
your mother! ;-)
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL
your mother uses tables for layout.
; )
On 9/9/05, Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Actually as wars go on this list this one is pretty tame :)
I have yet to hear anyone's mother mentioned.
your mother! ;-)
Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP Director of E-Commerce Development
Mike Soultanian wrote:
You just gotta be very careful if you're ever planning on building a
site that is ADA compliant (which you should try to do anyways).
Tweaked table layouts are very difficult for screen readers to handle so
that's a big push for CSS websites. However, you still can
Charlie Griefer wrote:
your mother uses tables for layout.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL PROTECTED]@
~|
Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble
Ticket application
Must be Friday.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
Dynamic Data?
your mother uses tables for layout.
; )
On 9/9/05, Bryan
I'm using tables for layout at this point exclusively...seems to work fine.
What advantages do the div's bring to the specific areas of your layouts
that tables wouldn't or couldn't...
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Mike Soultanian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09,
your mother uses tables for layout.
Wrong answer...she uses a lounge chair on the back deck... ;oP
Rick
-Original Message-
From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for
divs can provide some neat functionality that tables don't do. You can nest
divs, you can move them around dynamically (e.g. drag them with a mouse), you
can give them absolute positioning- there are lots of neat layout features in
divs. one of the things I tried to do in my webmail UI was
Sounds like div's would work well in creating access to data
with scrolling up and down a page and without using scrolling frames.
The browser compatibility wouldn't be an issue if I'm working on
an app for a company that standardizes on a certain browser.
For general public consumption, I may
doh!
-Original Message-
From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:36 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Can CSS and Layers Take the Place of Tables for Displaying
Dynamic Data?
your mother uses tables for layout.
; )
On 9/9/05, Bryan Stevenson [EMAIL
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