Bob, The problem I have is that Jim is essentially doing disinformation. He keeps posting garbage as if it were poignant, against the grain material. I do not read him as a curmudgeon with a hanky wrapped around his head; instead, he is beginning to read like one of those Freepers with a Ken Starr jones.
OkBomb was a smaller version of 911 with white supremacists, arabs and many of the same players involved in the cover up (Controlled Demolition removed the debris in both cases). JD Cash is a monitor who controls information about OkBomb by playing reporter and shacking up with Glen Wilburn's widow ( I do not know his current status with Kathy Wiburn). The Wilburn's lost a grandchild in the daycare center that was in the Murrah Building the day of the bombing. Glen Wilburn wanted to file a suit against McVeigh so that he could gain access through the legal discovery procedure to otherwise undisclosed information about OkBomb. A very short time after Wilburn disclosed his intentions, he died of one of the fastest acting cases of pancreatic cancer known to man. Jim is a man on a raft in he middle of the Pacific denying the existence of dry land. I do not know why he posts here; however, I do know that a search for the truth has little to do with it. --- In cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com, Bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/ok.html > > McVeigh at McDonald's > > mark urban wrote: > > JD Cash was Glen and Kathy Wilburn's CIA assigned handler. Hoppy > > Heidelberg, the defrocked Okbomb grand juror who refused to play > > ball with the government in the case, has reiterated this in his > > interviews. When I first joined this group back in June 2001, My > > very first post was regarding this matter. > > > > Pathetic! > Google turns up a lot better info. > > Kirk Lyons materially assisted Andreas Strassmeir, which > debunks Vincent Petruskie's denial that he got Andy a > job. Strassmeir entered a secure BATF door alone, too. > McVeigh and Strassmeir were seen together by a dancer > at Godiva's, which had to be why she was murdered. If > Strassmeir was CIA under BATF cover, and was working > with McVeigh, McVeigh is confirmed CIA by hundreds > of witnesses hearing that he had been recruited out of > special forces training for a government mission, like > Daniel Marvin says the JFK autopsy filmer's murderer > was recruited out of his special forces training. The op > turned out to be bombing a daycare center to mold > public opinion and to destroy Gulfwar medical records > like they burned the archive of where Vietnam vets > were when Agent Orange was sprayed. > > Russell Welch was anthraxed, which again says CIA, > not merely BATF or drug-related corruption. Welch > mentioned that Barry Seal was involved in arms > smuggling, again for CIA. Park-On-Meter was CIA > arms trading. Iran-Contra exposed some CIA arms > smuggling. Rodney Stich exposed CIA drug dealing. > There are a number of accounts of Iran-Contra era > arms deliveries where cocaine was brought back > on the return flight. > > Everyone at Elohim City was a BATF informer. The > Mueller family and Tom Kersey, journalist, were > murdered because they knew too much. Kersey > was coerced to shoot himself in the head twice > by the people who also ordered the Mueller family > murder. BATF was the landlord to the Muellers, > three BATF agents. Those BATF agents moved an > air conditioner over a bloodstain at the Muellers > and destroyed at least two pieces of evidence at > the Kersey two-bullet suicide. > > Every white supremacist, local and state cop, and > federal agent can universally assume that CIA is > using BATF to cover arms smuggling like shoulder > fired misssiles, and cocaine on return flights, and > bomb a daycare center or two, under cover of BATF > and white supremacists. It's a macarena and a house > of mirrors, deep water only the worst can feel > bottom as far as who to trust and what to believe > is really going on. They tried to kill Welch, and they > have killed cops. BATF harbors cop-killers and dope > smugglers and their arms smugglers don't steal or > sell the high grade military arms. > > Because it's a macarena and a house of mirrors, > it was funny when two of the babysitters said > that a lot of people had broken into the Mueller > house. Everyone in Arkansas is constantly > going through each other's cereal boxes looking > for BATF badges, and even then, the feds > themselves, and local and state cops, don't > know who's who among themselves! > > The white supremacists are not caching the > high-grade weapons. A few of them porter > some, but they're flown out right away like > Barry Seal used to do, from little airports > like Mena, in a number of states. Drugs > come back, but that's compartmentalized > away from the Christian Identity arms > porters. Ethnic gangs funnel the drugs. > The Christian Identity gun nuts are > insulated from the ethnic drug gangs, > even their own white biker dopers, > all compartmentalized as much as > possible. But many of the feds repeatedly > play a covert role in arms, drugs, murder, > and then we see Nella, Park-On-Meter and > anthrax and Andy all the way from Germany, > strictly CIA at inception and hand in hand > with McVeigh, himself recruited during > special forces training. Mahon sock puppeting > with Strassmeir, methinks he doth protest > too much, what a clownish caricature, one > of the most obvious front men. The harder > they make you laugh, the higher their > rank in the federal informer system. > > The many stories about how many BATF > informers were doing the macarena in > Elohim City, Dead Presidents bank robbers, > was actually a distraction from the next > layer, where it was agents, not informers, > badge-wearing agents all over OKCbomb > and the drugs and arms smuggling, and > not just for OKCbomb or Iran-Contra, but > from before Barry Seal and David Ferrie, > and continuing to this day. When they > murder anybody now, or sue Daniel Marvin > and Kris Millegan, they're the big fat ostrich > with her head in the sand. The little people > like Daniel Hopsicker talks to know all the > pieces of the puzzle. We all know too much > to spend a lot of time listening to JD Cash > and worldnetdaily propaganda. > > http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/ok.html > McVeigh at McDonald's > > What Brian Quig turned up about Gary Alan > Land and other federal OKCbomb operatives > also shows you there were feds running the > OKCbomb mission, agents, not informers or > provocateurs, whom they babysat and > mind-controlled. > > -Bob > > > > > > > --- In cia-drugs@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Rarey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Judges, FBI, DOJ.ATF all collude to hide evidence. > > > > > > > > > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp? > > ARTICLE_ID=47320 > > > > > > Thursday, November 10, 2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------- > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------- > > > OKC BOMBING FALLOUT > > > Agent: Feds told of threats to blow buildings > > > Judge had sealed woman's testimony regarding Oklahoma City > > blast > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------- > > > Posted: November 10, 2005 > > > 1:00 a.m. Eastern > > > > > > > > > > > > By J.D. Cash > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------- > > > © 2005 McCurtain Daily Gazette > > > > > > Unearthed by a Salt Lake City, Utah, attorney, statements > > made by a Tulsa Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agent in a > > federal courtroom confirm that a confidential informant did warn the > > agency of plans to bomb federal buildings before the attack in > > Oklahoma City that left 168 dead and hundreds more injured. > > > > > > Moreover, a federal judge in Oklahoma ordered that the > > information be kept sealed because of its potential impact on the > > trial of bomber Timothy McVeigh, records show. > > > > > > > > > Civil attorney Jesse Trentadue submitted as an exhibit a > > transcript from a 1997 federal court proceeding in Tulsa that > > contains admissions by a BATF agent that she had prior warning of a > > bomb plot being discussed inside a right-wing paramilitary compound > > in eastern Oklahoma called Elohim City. > > > > > > The information emerges now because in May of this year a > > federal judge in a Utah Freedom of Information case ordered the > > Oklahoma City FBI office to surrender all responsive documents > > requested by Trentadue - without redactions. The FBI has been > > fighting the order ever since. > > > > > > As part of that suit, Trentadue on Friday responded to the > > FBI's delivery to the judge of just under 100 pages of documents > > related to a little-known undercover operation involving the > > Southern Poverty Law Center, or SPLC; the FBI; and the $85 million > > OKBOMB investigation. > > > > > > In presenting the documents under seal to the court, lawyers > > for the Department of Justice once again argued that the identity of > > certain SPLC informants and others - along with important details of > > the undercover operation involving McVeigh and the far right - > > should be kept secret from the public. > > > > > > Almost since the day of the bombing, there has been > > considerable information emerging that various law enforcement > > agencies had intelligence pointing to a bomb plot by McVeigh and > > others well ahead of the attack. > > > > > > Federal officials have consistently denied that they had > > evidence of a pending attack. > > > > > > Questions immediately surfaced after the bombing as to why > > there were no BATF field agents on duty at the building the morning > > terrorists struck. The Oklahoma City office had over a dozen > > employees assigned to the ninth floor office. However, none was > > killed and only two auditors were treated for injuries afterward. > > > > > > Responding to press inquiries, the BATF at the time of the > > bombing said most of their agents had been out the night before on a > > surveillance operation and had slept in. > > > > > > Trentadue has obtained a 1997 transcript from a Tulsa > > federal court case that casts doubt on BATF claims that the agency > > had no advance warning of an Oklahoma City bombing. > > > > > > The 1997 case involved a Tulsa BATF contract informant who > > stood accused, along with a boyfriend, of making bomb threats in > > 1996. > > > > > > With no media present, Carol E. Howe's BATF handler, Angela > > Finley-Graham, responded to questions from Howe's attorney, Clark > > Brewster, about her work for the agency. > > > > > > In particular, Finley-Graham was asked whether Howe had > > warned the BATF in 1994 and 1995 that Andreas Strassmeir and others > > at Elohim City were plotting to bomb an Oklahoma federal building in > > the spring of 1995. > > > > > > The transcript of Graham's testimony includes this exchange: > > > > > > > > > Brewster: And Ms. Howe told you about Mr. Strassmeir's > > threats to blow up federal buildings, didn't she? > > > Graham: In general, yes. > > > > > > Brewster: And that was before the Oklahoma City bombing? > > > > > > Graham: Yes. > > > > > > During the proceeding, Graham also acknowledged that she was > > aware Howe traveled to Oklahoma City with members of the radical > > group before the attack and had later reported the incident. Upon > > her return to Tulsa, Howe was debriefed and then taken to Oklahoma > > City to show Graham the areas she visited with the individuals who > > were part of a wide-ranging terrorist investigation that was > > receiving substantial funding and attention in Washington, D.C. > > > > > > At the conclusion of Graham's testimony, the judge in the > > case was encouraged by Justice Department prosecutors to order > > Howe's attorney not to turn the information over to bombing defense > > attorneys for McVeigh, whose trial had just begun. > > > > > > In a closed-door, "in camera" hearing on April 24, 1997, > > U.S. District Judge Michael Burrage commented on the BATF records > > involving Howe's undercover file and referred to a mass-murder case > > that was not before him. > > > > > > > > > Burrage: With that McVeigh trial going on, I don't want > > anything getting out of here that would compromise that trial in any > > way. > > > Brewster: What do you mean by "compromise"? Do you mean > > shared with McVeigh's lawyers? > > > > > > Burrage: Yes, or something that would come up - you know, > > we have got evidence that the ATF took a trip with somebody that > > said buildings were going to be blown up in Oklahoma City before it > > was blown up or something of that nature, and try to connect it to > > McVeigh in some way or something. > > > > > > Brewster: That would be up to their representation of the > > client in some regard, Your Honor. If you are asking me not to share > > any documentation from these files with those lawyers, then I won't. > > > > > > Howe was not allowed to testify in the McVeigh trial. > > However, after she was acquitted of all charges brought by the DOJ > > against her in Tulsa, the former beauty queen and debutante was > > allowed to testify in a very limited manner in the Terry Nichols > > trial in Denver. > > > > > > Under strict orders by U.S. District Judge Richard Matsch, > > Howe was not allowed to tell Nichols' jurors that she was under > > contract for the BATF when she visited Elohim City in the months > > before the bombing. > > > > > > Thus, Howe was not allowed to discuss any portion of her > > BATF file that showed the Tulsa office was planning a February 1995 > > raid of Elohim City and then arrest Strassmeir. > > > > > > Nor was evidence allowed into the Nichols' trial that the > > FBI intervened to stop the raid. Howe was only allowed to tell > > jurors that she saw McVeigh at Elohim City before the April 19, > > 1995, blast and that he walking with Strassmeir. > > > > > > Earlier this year, individuals involved in the OKBOMB > > investigation came forward to the McCurtain Daily Gazette and > > claimed the FBI's OKBOMB case was corrupted by the Clinton White > > House and federal prosecutors in Denver who covered up evidence of a > > wider conspiracy in the bombing. > > > > > > Each of those officials has continued to follow media > > reports about the bombing for over a decade. They came forward - > > albeit without attribution - to express concerns and to provide > > details of a government cover-up of a failed sting operation at > > Elohim City - a sting operation, each said, that was very likely > > bungled by the BATF. > > > > > > "I was close to the bombing case immediately," one former > > official told the Gazette, "and over time it became clear the White > > House had taken the investigation away from the FBI and handed it > > over to officials at the Department of Justice. > > > > > > "And that's not how it works. The FBI should investigate and > > then turn the evidence over to them to decide if they want to > > proceed with a prosecution. That didn't happen in this case. In this > > case, after the original commanders left the case, the DOJ began > > calling the shots - telling field agents what they could investigate > > and what they couldn't." > > > > > > Documents withheld > > > > > > Various lawyers who worked for the defendants in the bombing > > case have reviewed the documents central to the Trentadue FOIA > > lawsuit and have told the newspaper they were never turned over to > > them in discovery by DOJ as the court had ordered. > > > > > > At issue is close to 100 pages of heavily redacted documents > > about the FBI's interest in phone calls and associations involving > > McVeigh, Elohim City and informants privy to that information before > > the bombing in Oklahoma and afterward. > > > > > > Much of the information involves teletypes from the then- > > director of the FBI, Louis Freeh. > > > > > > Central to Trentadue's FOIA litigation, the FBI is now > > asking the court to allow it to continue to withhold details of the > > SPLC operation at Elohim City - including the names of the > > informants that assisted the SPLC and others. The FBI also wants to > > redact how much information the government and the SPLC knew of the > > bomb plot before terrorists struck in Oklahoma City. > > > > > > Trentadue alleges that the SPLC and the FBI through their > > informants and agents actually helped McVeigh and his cohorts bomb > > the federal building as part of a failed "sting operation" that went > > awry. At no stage in the litigation has the FBI denied this > > allegation. > > > > > > Also contained in Friday's filing in Salt Lake City, > > Trentadue writes: > > > > > > "During the course of investigating his brother Kenneth > > Michael Trentadue's murder, Plaintiff discovered that the Southern > > Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and the FBI had conducted a joint sting > > operation at a white supremacist compound in eastern Oklahoma, known > > as Elohim City, and that Timothy McVeigh was a visitor at Elohim > > City, which was also a paramilitary training camp. Another visitor > > to Elohim City was Richard Lee Guthrie. Prior to McVeigh's > > execution, Plaintiff received a message from McVeigh stating that > > McVeigh believed Plaintiff's brother was killed because of FBI > > Defendants' mistaken belief that Kenneth Michael Trentadue was > > actually Richard Lee Gurthrie. > > > > > > "Gurthrie was one of McVeigh's accomplices in the Oklahoma > > City bombing and a member of the Mid-West Bank Robbery Gang, which > > was an arm of the Aryan Republican Army. Approximately nine months > > after Kenneth Trentadue was murdered, Guthrie was found hanging in > > his cell while in federal custody. Plaintiff commenced this action > > to obtain records/documents from FBI Defendants concerning the joint > > SPLC-FBI sting operation, the Mid-West Bank Robbery Gang and the > > murder of his brother. > > > > > > "FBI Defendants have filed 96 pages of responsive documents > > with the Court. Plaintiff has been provided with redacted copies of > > these same documents. FBI Defendants have now asked the Court to > > reconsider and vacate its Order of May 5, 2005. If that Motion is > > granted, FBI Defendants will continue to conceal their involvement > > in the greatest act of domestic terrorism to occur in the United > > States of America during the 20th Century, which involved the > > murders of 169 people including 19 children and Plaintiff's > > brother." > > > > > > > > > In one explosive document from the FBI after the bombing, > > Trentadue points out, "Exhibit 2 is the SPLC Bombing Memorandum. The > > Court should note that there are at least two informants mentioned > > in this document. One is a Cincinnati cooperating witness for whom > > FBI Defendants assert the implied assurance of confidentiality > > exemption, but there is nothing in the record before the Court to > > indicate that this witness, who is Shawn Kenny, is entitled to that > > exemption. Of more significance, however, is the other informant at > > Elohim City, Andreas Carl Strassmeir. > > > > > > "There is no exemption asserted for Andreas Carl Strassmeir. > > This document is crucial because it reveals that McVeigh had a > > lengthy relationship with Strassmeir, a weapons and explosives > > instructor at Elohim City and that two days prior to the Murrah > > Building bombing, McVeigh had called Elohim City looking for help." > > > > > > Dees responds > > > > > > SPLC's Morris Dees in an interview with the Gazette over a > > year ago admitted involvement in an operation at Elohim City, but > > refused to provide details. That interview was tape recorded by this > > reporter and filmed by a Texas television network. Since that > > interview, Dees' assistant Mark Potok has said his employer was just > > making a joke. Potok has refused to communicate further with the > > Gazette. > > > > > > Today in Salt Lake City the parties in the lawsuit expect > > the court to rule on the manner. If the judge in the case once again > > orders the FBI to surrender the unaltered documents to Trentadue, > > the matter could be appealed to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in > > Denver. > > > > > > Previous stories: > > > > > > Oklahoma City FBI surrenders documents to court > > > > > > Congressman to FBI: Turn over documents > > > > > > FBI must turn over investigation docs > > > > > > Ex-Green Beret involved in attack? > > > > > > FBI has secret docs it's reluctant to give up > > > > > > Withheld evidence to sink case against Nichols? > > > > > > Declassified FBI memo reveals twists in probe > > > > > > Reporter's Oklahoma City coverage vindicated > > > > > > Was FBI early arrival in Oklahoma City? > > > > > > Another suicide or another cover-up? > > > > > > Read WorldNetDaily's extensive coverage of the Oklahoma City > > bombing case. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------- > > > > > > Order Jayna Davis's blockbuster -- "The Third Terrorist: The > > Middle Eastern Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing" at > > ShopNetDaily -- the only place it's available in hardcover! > > > > > > If you prefer ordering by phone, call our toll-free order > > line: 1-800-4-WND-COM (1-800-496-3266). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > ------- > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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