On Sep 9, 5:06 pm, alux alu...@googlemail.com wrote:
But, @Luc
pushing the advantage of Lisp
macros to the forefront is not obvious if the audience cannot compare
with another (good/simple) implementation they understand well.
Thats why I want to use a nifty metaphor ;-)
Even your dumbest
Adam Burry abu...@gmail.com wrote ..
On Sep 9, 5:06 pm, alux alu...@googlemail.com wrote:
But, @Luc
pushing the advantage of Lisp
macros to the forefront is not obvious if the audience cannot compare
with another (good/simple) implementation they understand well.
Thats why I want to
On Sep 10, 1:10 pm, lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca wrote:
Adam Burry abu...@gmail.com wrote ..
On Sep 9, 5:06 pm, alux alu...@googlemail.com wrote:
But, @Luc
pushing the advantage of Lisp
macros to the forefront is not obvious if the audience cannot compare
with another (good/simple)
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:28 AM, CuppoJava patrickli_2...@hotmail.com wrote:
I found the easiest way to introduce macros is just to introduce them
as small syntactic sugaring. For example, getting rid of the explicit
(fn [] ...) for macros like (with-open file ...).
Interesting. I don't see any
Hello,
2010/9/9 Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com:
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:28 AM, CuppoJava patrickli_2...@hotmail.com wrote:
I found the easiest way to introduce macros is just to introduce them
as small syntactic sugaring. For example, getting rid of the explicit
(fn [] ...) for macros
On Sep 8, 5:41 pm, lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca wrote:
Writing tons of XML lines to control behavior of frameworks was also a turn
off. We use Spring to create low-level Java beans but the XML describing
these beans did not change much over time. That is acceptable.
I think Lisp is very well
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
2010/9/9 Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com:
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:28 AM, CuppoJava patrickli_2...@hotmail.com wrote:
I found the easiest way to introduce macros is just to introduce them
as small
2010/9/9 Andrew Gwozdziewycz apg...@gmail.com:
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Laurent PETIT laurent.pe...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
2010/9/9 Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com:
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 7:28 AM, CuppoJava patrickli_2...@hotmail.com
wrote:
I found the easiest way to introduce
On 9 Wrz, 14:25, Andrew Gwozdziewycz apg...@gmail.com wrote:
The fact that Lisp macros actually operate on the AST means that Lisp
macros can make *changes* to the AST (insert things, remove things,
rearrange things), and *not* just substitute FOO for BAR. This is a
hell of a lot more
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 07:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
ajuc aju...@gmail.com wrote:
[In C] you can't output different code in macro depending on the
structure of its arguments
That, of course, is a *crucial* difference. Think about the same
restriction outside the macro environment: what would programming be
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, ajuc aju...@gmail.com wrote:
On 9 Wrz, 14:25, Andrew Gwozdziewycz apg...@gmail.com wrote:
The fact that Lisp macros actually operate on the AST means that Lisp
macros can make *changes* to the AST (insert things, remove things,
rearrange things), and *not*
Interesting discussion!
I think about taking some of the topics into separate threads. Will
see, I'm a bit under project pressure. Wont tell you the language ;(
But, @Luc
pushing the advantage of Lisp
macros to the forefront is not obvious if the audience cannot compare
with another
alux alu...@googlemail.com wrote ..
Interesting discussion!
I think about taking some of the topics into separate threads. Will
see, I'm a bit under project pressure. Wont tell you the language ;(
But, @Luc
pushing the advantage of Lisp
macros to the forefront is not obvious if the
Hello,
I still try to read my way through Paul Grahams On Lisp, and always
think how to motivate this stuff to my fellow Java people. How do I
describe what it is all about in this Code is Data, and Macros let
you grow your own language towards the problem stuff?
[Why? Well, maybe I read to much
Actually, this metaphor has been used before. Check
http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html for an other version of
your story ;).
2010/9/8 alux alu...@googlemail.com:
Hello,
I still try to read my way through Paul Grahams On Lisp, and always
think how to motivate this stuff to my fellow
Hello Joop,
thanks for the link. So it seems not to be completely misled ;-)
Greetings, alux
On 8 Sep., 11:59, Joop Kiefte iko...@gmail.com wrote:
Actually, this metaphor has been used before.
Checkhttp://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.htmlfor an other version of
your story ;).
2010/9/8
I found the easiest way to introduce macros is just to introduce them
as small syntactic sugaring. For example, getting rid of the explicit
(fn [] ...) for macros like (with-open file ...).
Once people get accustomed to this, they naturally extend it to more
and more complicated usages.
-Patrick
Hi Patrick,
yes, I think thats the right way to teach this stuff. My problem
arises earlier - I still have to motivate my collegues, to get them
interested, and, maybe, teach them later ;-)
Regards, alux
On 8 Sep., 16:28, CuppoJava patrickli_2...@hotmail.com wrote:
I found the easiest way to
Ah I see. Yes, motivation is hard. I don't have any good tips for
that. I remember when I was trying to learn Lisp. Even though I
desperately *wanted* to like Lisp, it still took a few tries before I
started to appreciate it.
Good luck!
-Patrick
On Sep 8, 11:07 am, alux alu...@googlemail.com
Hi,
On 8 Sep., 17:07, alux alu...@googlemail.com wrote:
yes, I think thats the right way to teach this stuff. My problem
arises earlier - I still have to motivate my collegues, to get them
interested, and, maybe, teach them later ;-)
Then I wouldn't stress macros at all. Just mention them
Hello Meikel,
I agree with all the points you suggest to mention, and I do so.
Nevertheless I will get (and got, so this is not hypothetic) the
question:
But why do they use this intolerable strange syntax? Why cant this be
in a usual (C-like) syntax?
And here (thats my state of understanding)
Hi,
My main motivation to get away from Java as much as possible was the code
size. I was tired of having to write tons of code lines for what I considered
mundane things. Using wizards was not satisfactory to me. The generated code
size is significant and still it has to be maintained either by
This was actually the article that finally got me to overcome the
inertia and start exploring lisp, as a long-time native Java speaker.
I gave up again in a few weeks, but the possibilities excited me, and
when I found Clojure I was delighted with the number of things that
were better than lisp,
Hello Luc,
what you say is of course completely true. Nevertheless it seems true
for Scala too. And now I come with a new language again. The curious
people in my team (well, or its the one with enough spare time :)
already had some look into Scala, and I think I need additional
arguments make
alux alu...@googlemail.com wrote ..
Hello Luc,
what you say is of course completely true. Nevertheless it seems true
for Scala too. And now I come with a new language again. The curious
people in my team (well, or its the one with enough spare time :)
already had some look into Scala, and I
On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:13:57 -0400 (EDT)
lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca wrote:
I cannot help you much here. I looked at Scala nearly two years ago while
searching for a JVM alternative to Java. I already knew Lisp and wanted
a generic macro facility but I was not convinced by Scala even before
Rich does a fine job of explaining macros here:
http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Expert-to-Expert-Rich-Hickey-and-Brian-Beckman-Inside-Clojure
See minutes 23 to 25. The macro concept is not complicated, it should
not be hard to explain to someone. The benefits of code writing code
should
On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 08:17, CuppoJava patrickli_2...@hotmail.com wrote:
Ah I see. Yes, motivation is hard. I don't have any good tips for
that.
I'm still a noob at the evangelising part of Lisp! However, when it comes to
clojure, I tell Java people it's a better way of writing Java than
Hello all,
@Luc I'm not a OO adversary, but no evangelist too ;-)
@Mike I think the difference between Scala and Clojure is not OO vs
not OO, but rather static vs dynamic typing. Clojure is OO too, but as
you see with Luc, you can ignore it ;-)
@Adam Cool! A RH-video I want aware of! Thank you!
29 matches
Mail list logo
