Thanks, that was insightful. To recap, subclassloader is a
optimization to reduce the startup time of launching a new clojure
instance from leiningen. In addition, I learned that computing the
classpath was conducted in clojure code. I see now that the bash
script is just a bootstrapping tool to
Can someone please elaborate on this subclassloader process? Although
the design for leiningen is architecturally simple and understandable
and thus easy to extend, I'm still quite unfamiliar with the java
way. I believe a little documentation on this aspect can make a
significant improvement in
Brent Millare brent.mill...@gmail.com writes:
Can someone please elaborate on this subclassloader process? Although
the design for leiningen is architecturally simple and understandable
and thus easy to extend, I'm still quite unfamiliar with the java
way. I believe a little documentation on
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 01:32:36PM -0800, Phil Hagelberg wrote:
Historically this has been because calculating the classpath couldn't
be done in Clojure itself since it needed to be done before the JVM
booted. Having to figure this kind of thing out in a shell script or
in elisp is a
I'm confused. Why do we need symlinks or copies at all? Why can't we just tell
clojure where it's supposed to find a given projects dependencies? I'm sure the
answer involves some mumbo-jumbo about classpath and what not, but surely there
has to be a better alternative than whatever
Oh, and on a related note, I hate being forced into the src, test,
lib heirarchy... Let me put my files where I want them to go.
Whatever happened to the lancet build system from Stuart Holloway's
book? That seemed to make sense to me.
I think there is a big benefit in consistent directory
I'm confused. Why do we need symlinks or copies at all? Why can't we
just tell clojure where it's supposed to find a given projects
dependencies? I'm sure the answer involves some mumbo-jumbo about
classpath and what not, but surely there has to be a better
alternative than whatever
Richard Newman holyg...@gmail.com writes:
Whatever happened to engineers building a decent solution out of a
sense of pride, or even making the most basic half-assed attempt to
conserve resources?
I take your points but I think we may just have different priorities of
what to conserve, so we
The way to go is definitely symlinks or hard links, not classpath
hijinks. The only problem is that Java's filesystem API has no support
for links, so you'll probably need to use OS-specific command line
calls. Not too bad though.
-Per
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Brent Millare
Instead of symlinks you can use hard links like every decent DVCS does
for clone-style branches. Hard links are supported on NTFS, HFS, and
all the Unix file systems on wide use. They are transparent to users
of the file system, so you can easily make tarballs of hardlinked
jars, etc, without any
If you use a DVCS like Mercury or Bazaar that mainly uses clone-style
branching then it can become significant. The jars are build artifacts
and so ignored by the repository and not subject to the DCVS's
hard-link-based sharing. Penumbra is a small project and it already
has 12 megabytes of jars
On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer wrote: On Mar
11, 5:07 am, Brent Millare wrote:
Since leiningen downloads everything to a local repo, can't we do away
with copies and use symlinks if they are supported by the filesystem?
I feel there should be an option for this.
Why not
On Mar 4, 7:33 am, Jan Rychter j...@rychter.com wrote:
I haven't hacked on new Clojure stuff for the past two months or
so. Now, having updated my repositories, I find that everybody just
dropped ant and moved to leiningen.
I tried to make sense of things, but can't. I must be missing
Since leiningen downloads everything to a local repo, can't we do away
with copies and use symlinks if they are supported by the filesystem?
I feel there should be an option for this.
-Brent
On Mar 4, 1:59 pm, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Stuart
Hi,
On Mar 11, 5:07 am, Brent Millare brent.mill...@gmail.com wrote:
Since leiningen downloads everything to a local repo, can't we do away
with copies and use symlinks if they are supported by the filesystem?
I feel there should be an option for this.
Why not adding the files from the repo
Brent Millare brent.mill...@gmail.com writes:
Since leiningen downloads everything to a local repo, can't we do away
with copies and use symlinks if they are supported by the filesystem?
I feel there should be an option for this.
What benefit does this have aside from a tiny saving in disk
What benefit does this have aside from a tiny saving in disk space?
Not that tiny when you multiply it across the dozens of projects on
your hard drive.
repos $ du -hc $(ls */lib/*.jar) | fgrep total
291Mtotal
Add to that the size of the Maven repo itself.
Symlinks are nice.
* you
Richard Newman holyg...@gmail.com writes:
What benefit does this have aside from a tiny saving in disk space?
Not that tiny when you multiply it across the dozens of projects on
your hard drive.
repos $ du -hc $(ls */lib/*.jar) | fgrep total
291M total
Cost (on standard disks): 5 cents.
repos $ du -hc $(ls */lib/*.jar) | fgrep total
291Mtotal
Cost (on standard disks): 5 cents.
Sorry, that's tiny. It's even less than 0.5% of the small SSD I have
in
my laptop.
Seriously, this is just premature optimization.
You're seriously fine with every single Leiningen-based
On 5 March 2010 17:22, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
On Mar 5, 1:03 am, Felix Breuer fe...@fbreuer.de wrote:
I agree that Windows is a second class citizen as far as clojure
tools go.
Oh please stop that. I have a stable setup of Gradle + Clojuresque +
VimClojure on
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 01:44:44AM +1100, Glen Stampoultzis wrote:
It seems (from my limited observations) that most of the Clojure developers
are Linux/Mac people so it's understandable that Windows isn't currently as
well supported by all tools.
Windows has a fairly big share, I think.
On Mar 4, 4:32 pm, Glen Stampoultzis gst...@gmail.com wrote:
Getting swank-clojure going in Windows is also a pain. To install it the
recommended way via ELPA you need to patch the ELPA source code first. This
isn't documented at the swank-clojure site either.
For others who are struggling
Is anyone familiar with running Maven (and possibly Polygot Maven) on
Windows? Does it pretty much work as expected? The learning curve
for Maven looks steeper than for Leiningen, but if it makes up for it
with better documentation and being better-behaved, then it may be
worth it.
Mike
--
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
So your point boils down to emacs and lein don't work on Windows. I
don't know about emacs, but at least for leiningen there is some
activity at that front (cf. Rob's response).
So I still think: if you have trouble with
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Mike K mbk.li...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mar 4, 4:32 pm, Glen Stampoultzis gst...@gmail.com wrote:
Getting swank-clojure going in Windows is also a pain. To install it the
recommended way via ELPA you need to patch the ELPA source code first. This
isn't
On Mar 6, 5:58 am, Phil Hagelberg p...@hagelb.org wrote:
If you're using git, this should be avoided. git is remarkably bad at
storing binary data.
I seem to recall that recent versions of Git have improved
significantly in this area. However, there's still the fundamental
problem that changing
If you're using git, this should be avoided. git is remarkably bad at
storing binary data.
I seem to recall that recent versions of Git have improved
significantly in this area. However, there's still the fundamental
problem that changing the dependencies increases the size of the
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de wrote:
Hi,
On Mar 5, 7:47 am, Martin DeMello martindeme...@gmail.com wrote:
One huge drawback I've found with clojure (which it doubtless
inherited from Java) is that you need an actual jarfile in your
classpath, not just the
2010/3/5 Meikel Brandmeyer m...@kotka.de:
Hi,
On Mar 5, 1:03 am, Felix Breuer fe...@fbreuer.de wrote:
I agree that Windows is a second class citizen as far as clojure
tools go.
Oh please stop that. I have a stable setup of Gradle + Clojuresque +
VimClojure on Windows.
Furthermore, all
On Mar 4, 1:59 pm, David Nolen dnolen.li...@gmail.com wrote:
If Lein evolves to to handle dependencies of dependencies and intelligently
generates the classpath based on these dependencies (instead of copying
files around) what advantage does Maven really have?
Maven supports a wide range of
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Stuart Sierra
the.stuart.sie...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, the Maven configuration model isn't pretty, but if you follow the
conventions it works. Polyglot Maven will obviate the need to write
I didn't know about Polyglot. Thanks. Looks like a very nice tool.
On Mar 5, 11:17 am, Stuart Sierra the.stuart.sie...@gmail.com wrote:
Maven supports a wide range of development/deployment models already.
Whatever you want to do (including compile/test/run Clojure code)
there's a plugin for that. Why recreate all this functionality in
Leiningen?
Most of
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 5:52 AM, Stuart Halloway
stuart.hallo...@gmail.com wrote:
Some needs I see:
(0) More point releases of key libs (or some other solution to the snapshots
problem)
Agreed.
(1) Unify around the project structure imposed by lein, and/or
Yes, but it should be noted this
(2) Improve the project structure imposed by lein, if it is broken
in some
specific way. (Maybe add a well-known config file for adding
elements to the
classpath?)
People have asked for this, but I have yet to hear a good use case for
it. Mostly it's been requested by people who don't
I'll add my 2 cents worth. I've come from a Java development
background to Clojure. A couple of years ago our company migrated from
Ant to Maven. At first I really really hated it. I found it difficult
to make it do what I wanted it to do. Nowadays, though, it is my build
tool of choice.
The
On 5 March 2010 18:49, Stuart Halloway stuart.hallo...@gmail.com wrote:
(2) Improve the project structure imposed by lein, if it is broken in
some
specific way. (Maybe add a well-known config file for adding elements to
the
classpath?)
People have asked for this, but I have yet to hear a
As I'm one of the people that's requested this feature... I'll add my
reason too:
(3) Managing proprietary libraries and API's that you are developing
or using... Yes you can throw these into your own maven repo, but
then you also need to manage, configure and secure a server (when
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 2:38 PM, Rick Moynihan rick.moyni...@gmail.com wrote:
(1) getting ./config on the classpath so I can keep properties files, json
config, whatever, separate from code and lib
This is actually what the resources/ directory is for.
(2) having more than one kind of tests,
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Brian Schlining bschlin...@gmail.com wrote:
(3) Managing proprietary libraries and API's that you are developing
or using... Yes you can throw these into your own maven repo, but
then you also need to manage, configure and secure a server (when
working in a
Hi Jan,
My 2c: Leiningen is an important step, but there is still plenty to do.
My workflow: I am developing multiple Clojure libraries and
applications, with some of the dependencies changing daily. Whenever I
want to make a change, I:
In the project being changed:
git tag a new version
artifacts (huh?!), things get installed in weird places. My clj
script
that gets run by SLIME form Emacs can't find libraries that leiningen
downloaded.
lein deps copies dependencies into the project's lib directory.
Various other lein commands assume lib/*.jar is on the classpath, and
if
The .m2 folder is a Maven 2 convention. Leiningen uses Maven
internally.
.m2 contains your local repository - the single standard place where
stuff gets downloaded to.
When doing lein deps in a project folder any dependencies are
downloaded to your local repo first (unless you already had the
On Mar 4, 8:52 am, Stuart Halloway stuart.hallo...@gmail.com wrote:
My 2c: Leiningen is an important step, but there is still plenty to do.
Oh yeah.
Some needs I see:
(0) More point releases of key libs (or some other solution to the
snapshots problem)
Yes!
(1) Unify around the project
On 04.03.2010, at 14:33, Jan Rychter wrote:
It seems that leiningen assumes that you are building an application. It
downloads all dependencies and can build an uberjar for you. That's
great, but what if what I have is a bunch of libraries, all being
developed and modified?
That's my
Lein could be a step in the right direction, but I wonder how it will
manage to evolve given the complex tools it uses internally.
I have also seen a weird issue in my code base which has two classes
derived from java.lang.Exception. If I do a clean and try compile, I
get an error saying that
Hi,
On Thu, Mar 04, 2010 at 07:11:59AM -0800, Praki Prakash wrote:
I have also seen a weird issue in my code base which has two classes
derived from java.lang.Exception. If I do a clean and try compile, I
get an error saying that my.package.MyException class not found. My
workaround is, set
On 4 March 2010 10:19, Stuart Sierra the.stuart.sie...@gmail.com wrote:
As many of you know, I've always been tepid on lein. I'd rather go
with Maven whole-hog, because that offers the most robust model for
incorporating Java libraries.
Out of interest, what scenarios does Maven account for
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:59 AM, Konrad Hinsen
konrad.hin...@fastmail.netwrote:
Right, but its imperfections have bothered me often enough. For once, if
you have different applications that require different versions of the same
library, you are in for a major headache. Python setuptools and
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:33 AM, Jan Rychter j...@rychter.com wrote:
Also, I now have at least six clojure jars in ~/.m2 (huh?!), along with
a collection of other assorted stuff. I don't want to use any of these
clojure jars, I have a checked out git repo with clojure and this is the
only code
On 4 Mar 2010, at 19:38, David Nolen wrote:
Imperfections meaning it's perfectly broken :) That's why tools like
virtualenv exist for Python.
I'd say it's New Jersey style: good enough for 90% of the users, but
indeed fundamentally broken.
Konrad.
--
You received this message because
On Mar 4, 8:33 am, Jan Rychter j...@rychter.com wrote:
I haven't hacked on new Clojure stuff for the past two months or
so. Now, having updated my repositories, I find that everybody just
dropped ant and moved to leiningen.
How do people deal with this?
I don't have any good answers for you;
On 5 March 2010 04:39, Chris Perkins chrisperkin...@gmail.com wrote:
The situation is worse on Windows, where I can't even get leiningen to
work at all. Luckily I'm only working on one clojure project, so I
just copy clojure.jar and clojure-contrib.jar into my project's lib
directory, as
On 05/03/2010, at 5:29 AM, David Nolen wrote:
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Stuart Sierra the.stuart.sie...@gmail.com
wrote:
As many of you know, I've always been tepid on lein. I'd rather go
with Maven whole-hog, because that offers the most robust model for
incorporating Java
If Lein evolves to to handle dependencies of dependencies and
intelligently generates the classpath based on these dependencies (instead
of copying files around) what advantage does Maven really have?
The tools (e.g. Archiva, Nexus et al), documentation, IDE support,
integration with
I am also on Windows and have struggled a good deal with Leiningen (I
would like to avoid wrangling classpaths myself as far as possible). I
finally got Leiningen to run, but some features like lein swank still
elude me (though this is a problem of swank-clojure and not of
Leiningen). I agree that
Hi,
On Mar 5, 1:03 am, Felix Breuer fe...@fbreuer.de wrote:
I agree that Windows is a second class citizen as far as clojure
tools go.
Oh please stop that. I have a stable setup of Gradle + Clojuresque +
VimClojure on Windows. Granted setting up VimClojure on Windows is
tricky due to Vim and
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Jan Rychter j...@rychter.com wrote:
As a more general observation, I think that a large part of Perl's and
Python's success was a unified way of dealing with libraries. There
are certain directories where you can drop libraries and expect them to
work (be
Hi,
On Mar 5, 7:47 am, Martin DeMello martindeme...@gmail.com wrote:
One huge drawback I've found with clojure (which it doubtless
inherited from Java) is that you need an actual jarfile in your
classpath, not just the directory containing the jarfile.
With newer Java versions you can
On 5 Mar, 01:03, Felix Breuer fe...@fbreuer.de wrote:
I am also on Windows and have struggled a good deal with Leiningen (I
[...]
On 5 Mrz., 00:32, Glen Stampoultzis gst...@gmail.com wrote:
On 5 March 2010 04:39, Chris Perkins chrisperkin...@gmail.com wrote:
The situation is worse
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