Yes, or CodeMirror (maybe more lightweight ?)
2010/3/26 Mark Derricutt m...@talios.com:
I was thinking it might be interesting to see if we could integrate Bespin
Embedded in labrepl, having a nice web based syntax highlighting editor
thats consistent on platforms could be quite cool.
--
Hello Ronan,
By the way, if someone has an idea about a sample application (simple,
but not trivial) which could lead the tutorial, and show different
aspects of the language, let me know !
I was thinking about a more complete and idiomatic version of Vincent
Foley's Fetching web comics
Clojure can be used in so many different ways. I can't think of any
other language where I have so many varied integration options. The
flexibility is confusing and frustrating, but I much prefer its
presence than absence. :) I'm glad I stuck with it.
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I was thinking it might be interesting to see if we could integrate Bespin
Embedded in labrepl, having a nice web based syntax highlighting editor
thats consistent on platforms could be quite cool.
--
Pull me down under...
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 4:26 AM, Stuart Halloway
On 23 Mar 2010, at 19:53, Lee Spector wrote:
I'm intrigued by what I've read here about labrepl, but can someone
tell me if it's possible that the lein installation step will mess
up my existing setup in any way?
I don't think so. Unless you have an existing script called lein on
your
On 23 Mar 2010, at 02:31, Lee Spector wrote:
Someone else mentioned that maybe part of the problem is that there
are several different simple ways to get started, and this may
have been part of my own problem.
What we have currently is lots of individuals who have figured out a
good
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 12:03 AM, cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps it would be useful to at least included a ready-to-go clj
shell/batch script in the default distribution?
Thanks to some awesome work by contributors, I think the one in
ClojureX became fairly good over time:
On 23 March 2010 00:13, Luc Préfontaine lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca wrote:
I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
Are these videos listed on the Getting started page ?
Let's see if I can get this
Maybe it'd be helpful to draw up several of the most common use-cases
and target those with instructions. There are programmers new to some
combination of Lisp/Clojure/Java either wanting to just get a taste of
Clojure, or wanting to get a IDE/text editor (of their choosing) going
to program in
I think that he made a good point, despite his rantings.
As an experienced java developer, these are the steps I took while
setting my environment up and running.
- downloaded the jar, launched java -jar clojure.jar. I was able to
fiddle with the repl, but when it came to code something dependent
On Mar 22, 9:40 pm, Michael Richter ttmrich...@gmail.com wrote:
On 23 March 2010 00:13, Luc Préfontaine lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca wrote:
I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
Are these
So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
file that will find at least the core clojure jar files on its own? I
don't see how you're going to actually deploy any clojure apps, or
connect to a
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:07 AM, cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
file that will find at least the core clojure jar files on its own? I
don't see
Stuart's book is by all accounts excellent, but I'm not sure we want
to be in the situation that Ruby once was in, where buying a book
(PragProg's Pickaxe book) was virtually a prerequisite for getting
started.
-Per
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 10:11 PM, Brian Hurt bhur...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue,
You also get this with the labrepl (http://github.com/relevance/
labrepl) which is free. Plus I am attempting (with a little help from
you all) to keep the labrepl working with various IDEs.
Stu
Stuart's book is by all accounts excellent, but I'm not sure we want
to be in the situation that
I think it is important to be clear about the difference between:
(A) exploring Clojure (non trivially, including interesting Java
libraries)
(B) deploying Clojure into production.
I nominate the labrepl (http://github.com/relevance/labrepl) as a
solution for (A). It already includes
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 4:07 PM, cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
file that will find at least the core clojure jar files on its own?
On Mar 23, 11:09 am, Michael Kohl citizen...@gmail.com wrote:
http://github.com/citizen428/ClojureX/archives/1.1.0
Sorry, really not trying to pitch my project here, but the archive
above basically contains what you are asking for.
Cool. Maybe we could link this and/or Stuart's labrepl from
I like where this is going but I would suggest that there's a significant
audience (including me and most of my students) in what we might call category
A.01: Want to explore and even do some real work, but not necessarily work
involving deploying apps, connecting to databases, working with
Lein is a command line tool that you can use independently of your
environment. 99.9% sure you won't break anything by installing it.
Is this right Phil?
Sean
On Mar 23, 2:53 pm, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
I like where this is going but I would suggest that there's a
Labrepl (via leiningen) puts jars in a local lib directory. They
shouldn't collide with to break anything else.
Stu
Lein is a command line tool that you can use independently of your
environment. 99.9% sure you won't break anything by installing it.
Is this right Phil?
Sean
On Mar 23,
On 23 March 2010 23:11, Brian Hurt bhur...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 11:07 AM, cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
So perhaps it would be worthwhile to create, like jruby, a single zip/
tgz file containing clojure, clojure-contrib, and a reasonable bin/clj
file that will find
I second Lee's thought -- my work as a grad student is AI research,
not application development. I'm glad I discovered Incanter's package
(three lines of instructions [1]) that allows me to run a Swank server
that I can easily connect to from Emacs (and Slime from the Emacs end
can be easily
I'm starring that post. Still haven't gotten Aquamacs working with
clojure. will try yet again tonight.
On Tue, Mar 23, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Carson c.sci.b...@gmail.com wrote:
I second Lee's thought -- my work as a grad student is AI research,
not application development. I'm glad I discovered
An IDE becomes a necessity as the complexity of your software is
increasing.
Now what's a complex piece of software ?
Presently we have 12 components in production some being several
thousand lines covering three languages (Java, Ruby and Clojure).
4 others components are in progress. Add to
Hello all,
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Tim Johnson t...@johnsons-web.com wrote:
I have evaluated clojure for the last couple of days, and it is both my own
professional decision and my recommendation to the professional organizations
that I belong to and report to that clojure is not
Tim Johnson wrote:
I have evaluated clojure for the last couple of days, and it is both my own
professional decision and my recommendation to the professional organizations
that I belong to and report to that clojure is not ready for prime time.
[snip]
I agree that Tim was a bit
I'm happy that this guy self eliminated himself from clojure
community. But experience tells me not to be so sure. His kind tends
to come back and unfortunately is very persistent.
If downloading couple of jar files and dropping them into the
classpath is too much for him, then he is definitelly
I love clojure but I think it's unnecessary it doesn't ship with a simple
clj and a clj.bat script out of the box, yeah it's easy to run it with jvm,
but who want to type
java -server -Djava.ext.dirs=./lib:/opt/bin/lib -cp
~/.emacs.d/lisp-packages/swank-clojure jline.ConsoleRunner
This is definitely flamebait. However, he has a point. Perhaps we
should make it clear on the Getting Started page that deploying Java
is a prerequisite to deploying Clojure, and include links to resources
on how to do that for the platform you are on. It's presently unclear
to anyone without a
To add the perspective of a true newbie to this dogpile, I'm going to have
to say that the OP was just plain wrong. He made a major mistake -- wanting
to compile clojure for himself on a platform that's not exactly friendly to
Java development in the first place (Slackware, not Linux in general)
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Joel Westerberg
joel.westerb...@gmail.com wrote:
Every time I've started up with a clojure project I've had to spend a few
hours fiddling with the environment, not that I don't do that with other
languages, but it would be nice with an officially sanctioned
Is my first impression right or wrong ?
Is Clojure harder to setup from Windows for beginners ?
Would an installer (.msi) help by hiding Java related details and
providing some basic scripts to run it ?
Luc P.
On Mon, 2010-03-22 at 16:48 +0530, Martin DeMello wrote:
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at
Haven't tried setting it up on windows, but an msi that hid the java
details would be a nice plus, provided hat the abstraction never
leaked (i.e. that you could do all the basic clojure operations
without having to stop and edit or bypass the scripts).
martin
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:01 PM,
I use OS X and had only minor trouble getting Clojure to run the first
time. But even minor trouble still has a disproportionate effect on
someone's first impression. The out-of-box experience matters for
everything and programming languages are no exception. Eclipse is a
good example of a Java
I'd agree with that, I've setup Clojure on Linux, Mac and Windows and I found
Windows the most difficult. Granted, I virtually never use Windows, but it
felt like I was fighting it by being at the command line, but had no choice but
to be there.
On 22 Mar 2010, at 11:31, Luc Préfontaine
Don't twist my post away from it's purpose...
I am not making an IDE a pre-requisite for learning purposes.
The original poster was talking about getting Clojure usable by
corporations... he was not talking about
academic learning. Too bad he was not aware that there are other IDEs
available
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Per Vognsen per.vogn...@gmail.com wrote:
good example of a Java developer-oriented application with a good
out-of-box experience on all platforms. Shell scripts for UNIX and
installers for Windows and OS X would go a long way towards improving
that for Clojure.
Note that I didn't propose an installer except for OS X and Windows.
Only a DWIM shell script.
-Per
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan
vu3...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:13 PM, Per Vognsen per.vogn...@gmail.com wrote:
good example of a Java
I agree with Stuart that the user experience should be friendly on all
supported platforms.
I also agree. The best setup experience I've had so far is using
NetBeans with the Enclojure plugin.
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On Mon 22/03/10 11:31 , LucPréfontaine lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca sent:
Is my first impression right or wrong ?
Is Clojure harder to setup from Windows for beginners ?
Would an installer (.msi) help by hiding Java related details and
providing some basic scripts to run it ?
I think there
In my opinion, atleast in the GNU/Linux world, it should be left to
distributors to do this job. On Debian for instance, one just need to
do `apt-get install clojure clojure-contrib' to get clojure installed.
It's equally simple on the Mac with Homebrew [1]:
$ brew install clojure
Luc,
Windows users should be good to go. Clojurebox, Enclojure CCW are
ready for use for any Java dev with some experience. As for the
installation process, pick you poison:
http://vimeo.com/tag:install_clojure
Sorry to self-post,
Sean
On Mar 22, 7:31 am, Luc Préfontaine
FWIW Michael it was your ClojureX was what got me going best in the beginning,
but on Mac OS X, not Windows. Getting a minimal clojure-aware editing setup was
a little harder -- the emacs-setup stuff you had in an earlier version of
ClojureX got me started there too, but I had to do some other
think about the difference between putting flash or python on a machine
compared to clojure. there's more of a system-level path feel to those
things (even though each user can have their own environment). I mean, you
can add a clj script to your path and get the same effect, but that's what's
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:26 AM, cej38 junkerme...@gmail.com wrote:
I am a physicist by training and practice, this means that I am an
expert on Fortran 95. To say my exposure to Java is minimal would be
generous. And until last year when I heard about Clojure from a
friend, I thought LISP
I have to say that while I'm sorry that we didn't snag the original
poster
as a Clojure user, he has actually done us a real favor. The most
important
customer is the pissed off customer who tells you why he is pissed
off. You
don't have to take everything he says to heart, but it is always worth
I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
Are these videos listed on the Getting started page ?
What about using contrib ? That would be the first classpath problem a
newcomer would face.
It looks to me
Yes, yes and yes: The videos are great, and all of the information is out
there, but it was hard for me to find as I first waded in. And getting contrib
to work was one of my first problems. BTW I'd also like to reinforce that
although full IDEs aren't necessary to begin -- and besides they're
Hmm... maybe something like this?
http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/
Or this?
http://www.openoffice.org/
Sean
On Mar 22, 12:39 pm, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.edu wrote:
Yes, yes and yes: The videos are great, and all of the information is out
there, but it was hard for me to find as
On Mar 22, 2010, at 12:13 PM, Luc Préfontaine wrote:
I looked at these videos and they are a very good starting point.
Then do we have a communication problem getting these things known ?
Are these videos listed on the Getting started page ?
They are now:
http://clojure.org/getting_started
There are a ton of people who are ready for dabbling with Clojure but
aren't ready for production systems. You'd be surprised how linearly
independent system administration skills and software development
skills really are. They aren't quite orthogonal, but it's amazingly
close.
On Mar 22, 5:36
On Mar 22, 2:48 pm, Sean Devlin francoisdev...@gmail.com wrote:
There are a ton of people who are ready for dabbling with Clojure but
aren't ready for production systems. You'd be surprised how linearly
independent system administration skills and software development
skills really are. They
On Mar 22, 1:10 am, Luc Préfontaine lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca
wrote:
An IDE becomes a necessity as the complexity of your software is
increasing.
Now what's a complex piece of software ?
Presently we have 12 components in production some being several
thousand lines covering three
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 7:03 PM, cageface milese...@gmail.com wrote:
On the other hand, if you go to the getting started pages of Jruby,
Groovy they're actually far more daunting (IMO) than Clojure's:
http://groovy.codehaus.org/Tutorial+1+-+Getting+started
I agree with Sean on the near-orthogonality of sysadmin skills and the skills
needed to get a lot of Clojure as a language. I have precious few of the former
but not of the latter. And just today I had a very capable undergrad student
with programming experience in a couple of languages (but
I have evaluated clojure for the last couple of days, and it is both my own
professional decision and my recommendation to the professional organizations
that I belong to and report to that clojure is not ready for prime time.
Before any of you think that I am a disgruntled newbie turned troll,
1)As soon as I see the copy of this email in my clojure mailbox, I will
unsubscribe from this mailing list, delete the clojure mailbox and I will not
be following up in any way.
Really? This is not c.l.l and it's not likely that this thread would
have devolved into flaming or worse. It's
Reading his post I got the impression he was a bit of an egocentric (a
bit more information about himself than was relevant), those sorts
tend to overreact.
However I can imagine the whole just bung the jar file on your
classpath thing wouldn't make much sense for a java newbie. It may
highlight
Yeah,
too bad he removed his entry, 'cause as you said, installing clojure
isn't harder than installing anything java based. I don't know of a
sysadmin nowadays which had not to deal with java stuff in a way or
another ? And ant is around the place *for years*. So more input from
him may have
But if he had never been in the Java mindset it wouldn't be obvious to
him that
there is nothing to be gained by compiling your own java code.
Platform independence,
bytecode etc means that a jar file of the stable build is the optimum
solution. That is so
obvious to us we forget that its a
What a strange reason to dismiss Clojure. And also strange to refuse
any further input.
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I agree that the Clojure first-run experience is too rough. Both
Scala and JRuby, for example, are complete packages that you can
download, unzip, install, and run -- on any platform -- without
knowing anything about Java.
Clojure needs to provide the same experience, even if it only matters
for
It certainly does seem strange coming from the Java world, where ear
files and deployment descriptors can be intimidating. The idea that
adding a couple jar files and the source tree to
the classpath is 'too hard' makes me wonder what language he was
coming from.
I was asked to give a simple
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Stuart Sierra
the.stuart.sie...@gmail.comwrote:
I agree that the Clojure first-run experience is too rough. Both
Scala and JRuby, for example, are complete packages that you can
download, unzip, install, and run -- on any platform -- without
knowing anything
Thanks for the pointer to MCLIDE! That looks really nice! Any idea if a
64bit build is in the works? For some reason I feel dirty about having to
install Rosetta :)
--
Pull me down under...
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Lee Spector lspec...@hampshire.eduwrote:
I'm sure that this can
there's a positive reason to say all that stuff as if to say, and it's not
that I'm a slouch. I have been able to succeed with other technology.
I've personally had tons of trouble getting going with clojure, and I use
java all the time. I think the ideas in clojure are awesome, and I like the
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:42:12 -0800
Tim Johnson t...@johnsons-web.com wrote:
Here's how I installed the flash player on my system.
1)Downloaded install_flash_player_10_linux.tar.gz
2)Unzipped libflashplayer.so
3)Copied to /usr/lib/firefox-3.5.2/plugins/
Here's how I installed the Clojure REPL
I would appreciate any feedback.
According to the readme it requires bash or zsh. Any plans to support
windows (without cygwin or other unix emulation)?
I agree with Stuart that the user experience should be friendly on all
supported platforms.
Mike
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You received this message because
On 22/03/2010, at 9:28 AM, e wrote:
And don't get me started on trying to get emacs or vi all hooked up on my
mac. I've never succeeded.
I'm about to use Clojure commercially, but it's been a frustrating exercise
getting setup. I've ended up using LaClojure on IntelliJ, but that wasn't
To be successful however Clojure needs to adopt 'mainstream' values
- introduce just one 'different' thing i.e. the language, rather
than expecting people to adopt both the language, and a different
development environment / toolchain e.g. leiningen etc (which IMO is
classic NIH).
I
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Antony Blakey antony.bla...@gmail.comwrote:
On 22/03/2010, at 9:28 AM, e wrote:
And don't get me started on trying to get emacs or vi all hooked up on my
mac. I've never succeeded.
I'm about to use Clojure commercially, but it's been a frustrating
On Mar 21, 2010, at 3:56 PM, Mark Derricutt wrote:
Thanks for the pointer to MCLIDE! That looks really nice! Any
idea if a 64bit build is in the works? For some reason I feel
dirty about having to install Rosetta :)
MCLIDE 2.0 will have that cutting edge you're craving for and
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 6:55 PM, Mike K mbk.li...@gmail.com wrote:
I would appreciate any feedback.
According to the readme it requires bash or zsh. Any plans to support
windows (without cygwin or other unix emulation)?
I agree with Stuart that the user experience should be friendly on
I hate to feed trolls, but this is a solid example of passive-
aggresive behavior. Also, ignoring plausible sounding, spell-checked
diatribes is bad.
The installation of one or two jar files from a Maven repository is
par for the JVM course. Deployment? Works on any reasonable JVM out
there.
He's illiterate about Java, he's older than me and has less experience
so finding how to run a jar file is probably
as remote as traveling to Alpha Centauri :))) (Don't we have something
like Google to find these answers ?)
Most of his recent experience seems to be in Visual Basic and mainstream
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 10:20 PM, Luc Préfontaine
lprefonta...@softaddicts.ca wrote:
Yes we could have a complete package to run Clojure from the shell command
line but how far could someone go with this
to build a workable system without an IDE ?
[...]
Comments anyone ?
I can get
I am a physicist by training and practice, this means that I am an
expert on Fortran 95. To say my exposure to Java is minimal would be
generous. And until last year when I heard about Clojure from a
friend, I thought LISP was a speech impediment.
Setting up Clojure was a MAJOR problem for me,
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