On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:38 , John McCall rjmcc...@apple.com wrote:
[reduced need for Café Macs dinner tickets]
Fortunately. :)
But you do know where to get them anyway…? ;-)
[inline reference counts]
Right. ARC doesn’t replace the benefit of having an inline reference count.
I
The joys of a nice skewed profile. Ahhh…. :-) Of course, the ones you don’t
notice, the flat profiles, are in some ways more insidious, as they drag
everything down just a bit. Along with all the other things that drag
everything down a bit, and soon enough you have something that’s
On Sep 13, 2013, at 3:04 AM, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 11, 2013, at 10:38 , John McCall rjmcc...@apple.com wrote:
[inline reference counts]
Right. ARC doesn’t replace the benefit of having an inline reference count.
I think if we could magically bless all
On Sep 13, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Paul Scott psc...@skycoast.us wrote:
The joys of a nice skewed profile. Ahhh…. :-) Of course, the ones you
don’t notice, the flat profiles, are in some ways more insidious, as they
drag everything down just a bit. Along with all the other things that
drag
On 11 Sep 2013, at 19:59, Louis Gerbarg lgerb...@gmail.com wrote:
The world is a very different place than it was then, in the 80s RAM was a
lot faster relative to the CPU. There is absolutely no way something like you
describe today could be done today, most deeply pipelined OoOE CPUs
Hi John!
On Sep 10, 2013, at 19:26 , John McCall rjmcc...@apple.com wrote:
On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:15 AM, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
[Optimizations in ARC are there to mitigate pessimizations]
For what it’s worth, the autorelease optimization was planned; the
performance
On Sep 11, 2013, at 12:03 AM, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 10, 2013, at 19:26 , John McCall rjmcc...@apple.com wrote:
On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:15 AM, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
[Optimizations in ARC are there to mitigate pessimizations]
For what it’s
Le 11 sept. 2013 à 09:03, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com a écrit :
Hi John!
On Sep 10, 2013, at 19:26 , John McCall rjmcc...@apple.com wrote:
On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:15 AM, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
[Optimizations in ARC are there to mitigate pessimizations]
For
On 11 Sep 2013, at 05:04, Jens Alfke j...@mooseyard.com wrote:
On Sep 10, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Dave d...@looktowindward.com wrote:
You with all this talk of memory management, you'd think that Apple (or
someone) would have come up with a hardware solution for this by now. In the
70's and
On 11 Sep 2013, at 11:37, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
Yes. it works to disable ARC for arguments and other local variables. I
managed to reduce the ARC impact a little further by applying it to some
arguments in hot paths.
-- Jean-Daniel
I would have thought that
ARC is a combination of compiler and runtime technologie.
The compiler generates call to the runtime, so if you see a lot of ARC specific
calls in the profiler, you can know if the impact is due to ARC or not.
http://clang.llvm.org/docs/AutomaticReferenceCounting.html#runtime-support
Le 11
On Sep 11, 2013, at 6:37 AM, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
and that while in most code those would be lost in the noise, in some cases
people would need to help ARC out with things like __unsafe_unretained.
Hmm…I always thought that __unsafe_unretained was for instance
On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:58 AM, Dave d...@looktowindward.com wrote:
On 11 Sep 2013, at 05:04, Jens Alfke j...@mooseyard.com wrote:
On Sep 10, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Dave d...@looktowindward.com wrote:
You with all this talk of memory management, you'd think that Apple (or
someone) would
On Sep 9, 2013, at 4:15 AM, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:33 , Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote:
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:18, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
And does the profiler explicitly shows that ARC runtime code is the culprit
?
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:30, Kevin Meaney k...@yvs.eu.com wrote:
I don't know what it is like to convert an old project, but I would recommend
ARC for new projects and I believe the time investment is worthwhile.
Kevin
If the project is of any size it's the pits! It's not worthing doing
On Sep 10, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Dave wrote:
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:30, Kevin Meaney k...@yvs.eu.com wrote:
I don't know what it is like to convert an old project, but I would
recommend ARC for new projects and I believe the time investment is
worthwhile.
Kevin
If the project is of
On Sep 10, 2013, at 21:52 , Ken Thomases k...@codeweavers.com wrote:
On Sep 9, 2013, at 3:49 AM, Marcel Weiher wrote:
The pattern I adopted long ago to avoid that sort of situation is to have an
instance variable for my temps, in which case the code becomes:
[self
Hi,
You with all this talk of memory management, you'd think that Apple (or
someone) would have come up with a hardware solution for this by now. In the
70's and 80's I worked on some firmware and hardware that would handle garbage
collection in real time (with a little help from OS Software).
On Sep 9, 2013, at 3:49 AM, Marcel Weiher wrote:
The pattern I adopted long ago to avoid that sort of situation is to have an
instance variable for my temps, in which case the code becomes:
[self setTemp:newObject];
… do stuff …
[self setTemp:nil];
or if you prefer
Hi,
I think that's problem with it and a lot of other things too! Once you get out
of the habit of thinking about memory management, you forget how to do it! How
many people can do long multiplication or division on paper these days?? I
started to do it the other day and had to really think to
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:49, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
The pattern I adopted long ago to avoid that sort of situation is to have an
instance variable for my temps, in which case the code becomes:
[self setTemp:newObject];
… do stuff …
[self setTemp:nil];
On Sep 10, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Dave d...@looktowindward.com wrote:
You with all this talk of memory management, you'd think that Apple (or
someone) would have come up with a hardware solution for this by now. In the
70's and 80's I worked on some firmware and hardware that would handle
On 9 Sep 2013, at 11:15, Kevin Meaney k...@yvs.eu.com wrote:
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:33, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, it does. If you’d like an example to verify this behaviour with, play
with converting https://github.com/beelsebob/CoreParse to ARC, and profiling
the
Bingo. We’ve been working with Cocoa/Obj-C for many years, and still we’d find
weird errors that would be caused by some over-released object. We cut a ton of
code with ARC, and in the end we saw reliability go up and actually even some
performance.
ARC is a win. The only place it really got a
Thirded. I thought I wouldn't like it. As soon as I didn't have to manage
retains and releases of temporary objects, the discipline completely left my
mind. Now whenever I go back to non-ARC code I invariably make a ton of memory
management errors, most of which are caught by the analyzer.
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:44, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
Thirded. I thought I wouldn't like it. As soon as I didn't have to manage
retains and releases of temporary objects, the discipline completely left my
mind. Now whenever I go back to non-ARC code I invariably make a ton of
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 09:58, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:44, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
Thirded. I thought I wouldn't like it. As soon as I didn't have to manage
retains and releases of temporary objects, the discipline completely left my
mind. Now
As someone who considered garbage collection and decided against it and stayed
with manual retain and release at that time. I got along reasonably well with
manual retain and release. I have happily moved to ARC for a new project. I
spent at least a few days getting my head wrapped around the
It's something new to learn, but in order to stay current there will always be
something new. I'm just porting my software to ARC, and whilst there are one
or two gotchas (oversights on my part, leading to leakage), I'm finding it to
be an excellent idea. Using ARC (in my experience) leads to
On Sep 9, 2013, at 9:44 , Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
Thirded.
Countered. :-)
I thought I wouldn't like it.
I thought I would LOVE it, and when I actually used it was “meh”. Not just the
additional rules/complexity when dealing with the C side of things (which I do
quite a bit),
On 09/09/2013, at 10:49 AM, Marcel Weiher marcel.wei...@gmail.com wrote:
I thought I would LOVE it, and when I actually used it was “meh”. Not just
the additional rules/complexity when dealing with the C side of things (which
I do quite a bit), but more importantly it just didn’t make any
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:18, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 09:58, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:44, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
Thirded. I thought I wouldn't like it. As soon as I didn't have to manage
retains
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 11:33, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:18, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 09:58, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:44, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
Thirded. I
On 9 Sep 2013, at 11:49, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 11:33, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:18, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 09:58, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On
On Sep 9, 2013, at 1:43 AM, Patrick Cusack wrote:
Apologies. I have no desire to start an internecine war. I have been reading
up on ARC for the past few hours. I also watched the WWDC video on ARC, and
after having watched and read everything, I kept feeling as if I was rather
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:33, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, it does. If you’d like an example to verify this behaviour with, play
with converting https://github.com/beelsebob/CoreParse to ARC, and profiling
the result. This is the example that showed 100% slowdown initially. The
On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:33 , Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com wrote:
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:18, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
And does the profiler explicitly shows that ARC runtime code is the culprit
?
Yes, it does.
Isn’t it strange how when someone says “oh, and ARC is
When performance testing ARC code, remember to test in a release configuration,
with compiler optimisations on. In my experience, it can really make a big
difference; a lot of 'spurious' retain/release pairs are optimised away, and
many objects are released earlier.
Jamie.
On 9 Sep 2013, at
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 11:54, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On 9 Sep 2013, at 11:49, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
Le 9 sept. 2013 à 11:33, Tom Davie tom.da...@gmail.com a écrit :
On 9 Sep 2013, at 10:18, Jean-Daniel Dupas devli...@shadowlab.org wrote:
Le
On Sep 9, 2013, at 3:58 AM, Tom Davie wrote:
On 9 Sep 2013, at 09:44, Kyle Sluder k...@ksluder.com wrote:
Thirded. I thought I wouldn't like it. As soon as I didn't have to manage
retains and releases of temporary objects, the discipline completely left my
mind. Now whenever I go back
I appreciate everyone's replies. It was a question asked in complete humility.
I agree that computers can do analysis much better than humans and that the
less code you write, the less you have to debug, so ARC makes a lot of sense.
My question really stemmed from Apple's WWDC lecture which
On Sep 9, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Patrick Cusack livinginlosange...@mac.com wrote:
I appreciate everyone's replies. It was a question asked in complete
humility. I agree that computers can do analysis much better than humans and
that the less code you write, the less you have to debug, so ARC makes
Would anyone agree me that ARC introduces more rules and considerations than
previously existed with manual reference counting?
On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:00 PM, cocoa-dev-requ...@lists.apple.com wrote:
Send Cocoa-dev mailing list submissions to
cocoa-dev@lists.apple.com
To subscribe or
Converting to ARC in some ways - depends. On the whole we’re finding positives
with it. Writing new apps with it its superb.
On September 8, 2013 at 10:44:41 PM, livinginlosange...@mac.com
(livinginlosange...@mac.com) wrote:
Would anyone agree me that ARC introduces more rules and
Yes. I do. Absolutely.
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 8, 2013, at 9:41 PM, livinginlosange...@mac.com wrote:
Would anyone agree me that ARC introduces more rules and considerations than
previously existed with manual reference counting?
___
Cocoa-dev
Apologies. I have no desire to start an internecine war. I have been reading up
on ARC for the past few hours. I also watched the WWDC video on ARC, and after
having watched and read everything, I kept feeling as if I was rather
comfortable with the old manual memory model.
I guess my real
On Sep 8, 2013, at 10:43 PM, Patrick Cusack livinginlosange...@mac.com wrote:
Apologies. I have no desire to start an internecine war. I have been reading
up on ARC for the past few hours. I also watched the WWDC video on ARC
As with anything complex, it’ll take more than a few hours of
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