Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last (John Tromp)

2016-01-25 Thread John Tromp
dear Mark, > Well, although Dr. Tromp seems rather modest about this result, I haven't > heard of anyone else doing similarly interesting work on the theoretical > foundations of the game. There is a lot of other interesting research beyond counting things. Just to name a few there's rule

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last (John Tromp)

2016-01-25 Thread Mark Goldfain
Well, although Dr. Tromp seems rather modest about this result, I haven't heard of anyone else doing similarly interesting work on the theoretical foundations of the game. This set of results is fascinating and newsworthy. Congratulations on carrying this out, all the way up to 19x19 ! I have a

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last (John Tromp)

2016-01-25 Thread Olivier Teytaud
Hi; maybe, for the rules, you would like the Chinese rules, and in particular the "TROMP-TAYLOR CONCISE RULES OF GO" at https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~wjh/go/tmp/rules/TrompTaylor.html If you like maths, you might check Robson's result, which shows that with Japanese rules the game is Exptime-hard

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last (John Tromp)

2016-01-25 Thread Robert Jasiek
On 25.01.2016 09:11, Mark Goldfain wrote: I haven't heard of anyone else doing similarly interesting work on the theoretical foundations of the game. Sorry, but this is your fault. Where Tromp excels is Go combinatorics, a field that does not equate the more general "the theoretical

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Stefan Kaitschick
Good joke to render the solution as a board position. ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Erik van der Werf
Congratulations John! Does the number include symmetrical positions (rotations / mirroring / color reversal)? Best, Erik On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 5:18 AM, John Tromp wrote: > It's been a long journey, and now it's finally complete! > >

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Petr Baudis
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 11:18:25PM -0500, John Tromp wrote: > It's been a long journey, and now it's finally complete! > > http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html > > has all the juicy details... Congratulations! (Piece of trivia: Michal Koucky who collaborated on this research is essentially in

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Robert Jasiek
On 22.01.2016 05:18, John Tromp wrote: It's been a long journey, and now it's finally complete! http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html Congratulations! You must have needed 15 or 20 years of research to find the result? Eventually you heavily rely on computational power. How has it been

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Aja Huang
Very interesting. Thanks John. :) Aja On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 4:18 AM, John Tromp wrote: > It's been a long journey, and now it's finally complete! > > http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html > > has all the juicy details... > > regards, > -John >

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Ingo Althöfer
;John Tromp" <john.tr...@gmail.com> > An: computer-go <computer-go@computer-go.org> > Betreff: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last > > It's been a long journey, and now it's finally complete! > > http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread John Tromp
Wow, Robert, so many questions! Many of which I have no idea how to answer:-( > You must have needed 15 or 20 years of research to find the result? Very intermittently though. If it were all continuous, it may be several months of Go research, several more months of article editing, and a few

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread John Tromp
> shows how these 57 positions form 13 equivalence classes with respect > to mirroring/reflection which further reduces to 7 classes when > considering color symmetry as well. Correction: that should be 8 (not 7) classes for all symmetries. -John ___

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Adrian Petrescu
Very cool! I find it interesting that the number is only about 1.2% of 3^361 (though I realize 3^361 doesn't take symmetries into account). On the surface it's counterintuitive to me that nearly 99% of random stone configurations are not legal Go positions! On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 10:50 AM,

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread Thomas Wolf
On Fri, 22 Jan 2016, Adrian Petrescu wrote: Very cool! I find it interesting that the number is only about 1.2% of 3^361 (though I realize 3^361 doesn't take symmetries into account). On the surface it's counterintuitive to me that nearly 99% of random stone configurations are not legal Go

Re: [Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-22 Thread John Tromp
dear Erik, > I was wondering if there is an efficient way to find the number of unique > positions with symmetrical positions excluded. It's roughly L19/16. That's slightly short, but will be correct in the first 85 or so digits. You just need to correct for the positions with rotational and/or

[Computer-go] Number of Go positions computed at last

2016-01-21 Thread John Tromp
It's been a long journey, and now it's finally complete! http://tromp.github.io/go/legal.html has all the juicy details... regards, -John ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go