On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, Zach Wegner wrote:
White can simply pass if black plays in the center. Black passing in
response would be an instant loss (provided komi is 0 of course).
Quite the opposite. If white passes after black's first move
since all empty points just touch black, so black get the
OK, my mistake, I'm rather clueless about scoring methods. And even if
it was just a pure stone count, I still should have written komi 1.
Zach
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Don wrote:
It could be a matter of style as you say, not a matter of strength.
Right.
My main questions is whether it's been established as true that Zen
really plays poorly and Many Faces is brilliant against mirror go.
Or does it just seem that way based on casual observation?
Right.
Le 23/07/2009 à 09:21, Ingo Althöfer a écrit :
.../...
Therefore I really like the test series by Yamato (with 30 out of
100 wins for Zen against mirror strategy)
Can we assume that both programs are approximately equal or is MFGO
clearly stronger (or visa versa?)
In normal go (on
Alain Baeckeroot wrote:
gnugo --mirror will try to play mirror go :)
How does it do this?
Interesting might be a setting like the following:
When gnu-mi (short for gnugo --mirror) has to make a
move in a position, the following procedure is run:
(a) Is the position a mirror position and
is
Ingo Althöfer wrote:
Alain Baeckeroot wrote:
gnugo --mirror will try to play mirror go :)
How does it do this?
In the simplest possible way. If there is a legal move obtaining mirror
symmetry it will play it, otherwise revert to normal move generation. It
does not worry about komi, nor
How is the center point handled?I assume it plays to the center point as
black and with either color it just ignores the center point in the symetry
calculations, right? So if it's playing white, symmetry is broken as
soon as white plays to the center because it cannot play a move that
2009/7/23 Don Dailey dailey@gmail.com:
How is the center point handled? I assume it plays to the center point as
black and with either color it just ignores the center point in the symetry
calculations, right? So if it's playing white, symmetry is broken as
soon as white plays to
2009/7/20 Stefan Kaitschick stefan.kaitsch...@hamburg.de:
Ofcourse they can know. They just have to check for it.
Those programs that do well against mirror go probably all do check for it.
I think a strong MCTS could find the lines that make mirror Go
useless. Maybe MF plays lines that brake
2009/7/22 Andrés Domínguez andres...@gmail.com
2009/7/20 Stefan Kaitschick stefan.kaitsch...@hamburg.de:
Ofcourse they can know. They just have to check for it.
Those programs that do well against mirror go probably all do check for
it.
I think a strong MCTS could find the lines that make
But go programs do not KNOW they are playing mirror go and would have no
motivation to specifically set this up. So how is it that some equally
strong programs have no problem while others do?
I wondered if some programs prefer contact moves more? In which case the
chances of them attaching
It could be a matter of style as you say, not a matter of strength.My
main questions is whether it's been established as true that Zen really
plays poorly and Many Faces is brilliant against mirror go.Or does it
just seem that way based on casual observation?
The only reason I make an
Don Dailey wrote:
It could be a matter of style as you say, not a matter of strength.My
main questions is whether it's been established as true that Zen really
plays poorly and Many Faces is brilliant against mirror go.Or does it
just seem that way based on casual observation?
The only
Don Dailey wrote:
I thought you played mirror go as white?
Or with Black, starting in center.
It is possible when komi is only 0.5 and
chinese scoring.
I'm not a go player, but it seems like it would be hard to win if
you had the white pieces with 0.5 komi and black mirrored everything
you
Again, I don't understand go so well, but how do you win against mirror
go?
It seems you must either take advantage somehow of the non-symmetry of the
center point OR take advantage of the fact that a capture could break the
symmetry. Is that right?
If it's by capture it seems that since you
2009/7/20 Don Dailey dailey@gmail.com:
Again, I don't understand go so well, but how do you win against mirror
go?
You setup two ladders that collide.
--
Seo Sanghyeon
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Le 20/07/2009 à 15:34, Don Dailey a écrit :
Again, I don't understand go so well, but how do you win against mirror
go?
It seems you must either take advantage somehow of the non-symmetry of the
center point OR take advantage of the fact that a capture could break the
symmetry. Is that
Ok, so I am right about this, you take advantage of the asymmetry of
captures.
But go programs do not KNOW they are playing mirror go and would have no
motivation to specifically set this up. So how is it that some equally
strong programs have no problem while others do?
- Don
On Mon, Jul
Le 20/07/2009 à 16:01, Don Dailey a écrit :
Ok, so I am right about this, you take advantage of the asymmetry of
captures.
But go programs do not KNOW they are playing mirror go
GNU Go knows if the game is mirror-go or not, and decide to break
it when a sufficent number of moves is reached
Many Faces does not test for mirror go.
From: computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org
[mailto:computer-go-boun...@computer-go.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Kaitschick
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 2:26 PM
To: computer-go
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Re: Mirror Go against Zen
Ofcourse they can know
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