, chrilly
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is a remarkable result. I think poker is more difficult than Go and
of
course chess.
I am as surprised by this statement as everyone else. Of course you have
to develop some mixed strategies, try go guess implied pot odds, folding
, one wins with every card.
Chrilly
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in Go. As
said above, I think the problem is in Poker harder. They have of course not
solved the whole problem. Heads-Up limit Hold'Em is the - for computers -
easiest game. But its nevertheless remarkable that they are on-par with the
Poker-GMs.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From
or
Deep Blue team.
One can discuss, if Go or Poker is harder. Its definetly harder than chess.
But I am also convinced, that Go is not that hard, its this poor state of
the affairs which makes the problem that hard.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Harri Salakoski [EMAIL PROTECTED
-Hardware with an impressive speedup. But Go is like Lepra.
Chrilly
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and
real competition would start only afterwards.
Chrilly
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Already invented. There is the Alberta Poker-Server.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Chris Fant [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] U. of Alberta bots vs. the Poker pros
Someone start
I think you mean Darse Billings.
Yes, sorry, I can not remember names.
There is certainly more money to be made in poker than in go.
Yes, but its also more difficult.
Chrilly
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recommend me a good state of the art book about Bayesian
inference. Should be somewhat in the applied direction, but also with a
sound mathematical background.
Chrilly
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Thanks, I did also a search on Amazon and these two looked the most
interesting ones. I can order now with greater confidence.
Chrilly
You could try something like:
Information Theory, Inference Learning Algorithms
by David MacKay
or maybe
Data Analysis: A Bayesian Tutorial
by Devinderjit
I have the Neural Network Book from Bishop. It is also a good book. It puts
Neural Nets into the proper statistical framework.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: George Dahl
To: computer-go
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Hint for good Bayes
thesis...
What do we learn about the human mind from UCT?
Chrilly
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fallen from grace :-) You just want to make a strong
Go-programm and develop some good - general purpose - algorithms :-).
(There is a famous article of DonskeyJ.Schaeffer with the title Falling
from Grace in 1989).
Chrilly
P.S.: I am frustrated in the sense that you book for holiday
Below is my favorite one in the list. An example of this are
neural-networks. Neural networks are just a parameter-free
optimization/estimation method.
No magic at all, just a boring and not very efficient estimator.
Chrilly
Warning: Cynical Definition...
My definition of AI is any
Sorry, it is TrueSkill and not TrueScore.
http://research.microsoft.com/mlp/trueskill/
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Brian Slesinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Slides for Villach
on an GUI costs me indirectly 5.000 Euro. CGOS is not worth this
money.
Chrilly
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New lesson learned. It depends on the rule set if something is correct or a
blunder.
So far the Go-masters told me, it does not matter, its practically the same.
Obviously its not. This is not some weired, constructed position, it really
happened and it does not look strange at all.
Chrilly
to establish uniform rules in Go? Is there not
something like a FIDE or a FIFA ?
Chrilly
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played according a well defined and
uniform rule set?
Chrilly
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seems to be: The Go-Board is even larger.
Chrilly
I think the
- Original Message -
From: Robert Jasiek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Why are different rule sets?
chrilly wrote:
Why
Does Chrilly have anything to do with this project?
-Josh
No. Up to my knowledge a student makes his Diplomarbeit (masters-thesis) on
this topic. But building such a machine is somewhat beyond a masters thesis.
The problem is: There are no funds, no money available. Generally the Univ
in
Villach/Austria will be a better test.
Chrilly
UCT_verrueckt_02.sgf
Description: Binary data
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level.
Chrilly
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?
Is there a price money? Or at least some sponsorship for traveling?
Chrilly
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? Or does it exist and we
are living in a completly other Go-world?
Chrilly
P.S.: I do not want to offend anyone in this list. Everybody here does his
best. I am just feed up with the things as they are.
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computer-go
.
Chrilly
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theory
has become a nightmare. Some opening lines are practically fully analysed
and hence not playable anymore. I know some top players who would like to
ban computers for preperation. But its impossible to check such a ban.
Chrilly
.
, so also these GMs use very heavily PCs
Thanks, the dictionary is really great.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: David Silver
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: [computer-go] Re: Explanation to MoGo paper wanted. (BackGammonCode)
It's because Go is not only game
in a give position and dieces deterministic. But
the roll of the dices generates sufficient randomnes.
Chrilly
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development. Just trying out
things is not possible. We felt also, that even if it works, the improvement
measured in Elos would not be very spectacular. The Elo/Effort ratio is low.
I was simply too lazy (or too professional) to give it a try.
Chrilly
for the translation. The only point I am still missing: What is
RAVE(AMAF)?
Chrilly
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interesting.
Chrilly
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at the root. This is a variant
of UCT. Exactly its the multiarmed-bandit selection rule.
It differs e.g from the rule proposed by Epstein.
Chrilly
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are bullshit? Feng Hsu was the first one
who did this. He was proud enough about his work.
Chrilly
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not reveflect the
capabilities of modern hardware. Knuth has therefore to rewrite his books in
MMIX (Inschallah). Maybe pseudo-Algol would have been more ethernal than
MIX.
But in any case he uses different levels of notation.
Chrilly
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professorships.
Chrilly
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the results are similar.
There are some meaningfull game fragments reproduced, but overall it lacks any
higher meaning. The approach also fails when the player deviates either on
purpose (like in bisserl) or because he has learned bad style (e.g. Fritz
Programmer Frans Morsch).
Chrilly
not check for SuperKO in Alpha-Beta. The search is
not
deep enough. Ignoring SuperKO in UCT is for a Hashtable version deadly.
GameStack-Overflow.
Chrilly
So does your hash function consider all previous board states (for
superKo)? If so, how? I can think of one way, but I don't use it
since I have
this is true. MC-Runs are
also stopped, when one sides leads in Capture by a large margin.
Depending on the margin it produces only a negible bias.
Only for balanced cycles.
The cycles I have found so far are balanced. Each side captures in turn 1
stone.
Chrilly
-Overflow.
Chrilly
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of original Czech, Hungarion
and Jiidish words.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Nick Wedd [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:20 AM
Subject: [computer-go] Kirtag
Some months ago, someone here (I think it was Chrilly) used
Thanks Chrilly. For anyone else interested, it is here:
http://www.xilinx.com/publications/xcellonline/xcell_53/xc_pdf/xc_hydra53.pdf
But, as you say, the the search tree as an adaptable error filteridea
is only mentioned in passing. I guess I'll just have to wait for Ulf
Lorenz to translate
, but there is a defense move and at the
horizon nothing has happened.. But according the mean the programm is still in
some trouble. Or if one reverses the role, Suzie would like to play the
threat-move. This scheme increases therefore even the potential of the programm
to cheat.
Chrilly
- Original
.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Noise reduction in alpha-beta search
It can't be. He was probably studying the general game, not Go. The score in
Go
but not programming examples. It would
be much more instructive for my article if I could quote these examples.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Ron Goldman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Cc: Chrilly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 2:23 AM
years on do it on the PC. Or a
playstation.
Chrilly
Is there any notion of the Elo rating of a professional Go player. In chess
terms the
- Original Message -
From: Don Dailey [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:05 AM
Subject
not with 0-1 but used the full eval. Maybe I should give it a
second try. But as I work now 45 hours/week on Computer-Tomography (which is
also quite interesting) and comute each weekend between Germany and Austria
its difficult to do.
Chrilly
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lines with captures, if one extends checks
stronger, the program likes to check...
Chrilly
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problems.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Darren Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo)
(R==1). An incorrect pruning decission is not taken
speaking some computer languages, but Lisp is not among them.
I want to present the code in an article for the Austrian AI-Journal (as an
example that mathematical elegance and practically usefull are 2 different
things).
Chrilly
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engagement by Siemens rather slow***. Once
this GUI exists we will be able to participate on KGS tournaments and other
programmers could get Suzie if they like.
*** I have also done almost nothing to improve the search, the main progress
is due to Peters intensive work on the evaluation.
Chrilly
and to cook for them.
They can than write how they liked the eating. Which is already a story about
themselves.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Sylvain Gelly
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; computer-go
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re:[computer-go] MoGo
fast.
I am currently in my private house in Austria, the games are on my computer in
Germany (where I work currently during the week). I will send it on Monday.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Arend Bayer
To: computer-go
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:09 PM
Subject: Re
/sente and the net effect
is for all playing levels the same. Monte-Carlo Go is based on this law.
Chrilly
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, but the practical is low or
it even slows down things. The neural-network-computation must - in
comparision to the data - very large. Otherwise the transfer of data eats up
all the speedup.
Chrilly
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have a
good time-control algorithm there is no need for this trick. He could save
this 30 seks for himself.
Chrilly
Note: One should forget human behaviour generally. A programm is a programm
is a programm.
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- Original Message -
From: Sanghyeon Seo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Sho-Dan-level at 9x9
2007/1/3, Chrilly [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
As I told before I organized with Nimzo a jackpot
Chrilly,
I find it pretty amazing that even a little money will inspire people
to play a computer who wouldn't otherwise.
Many years ago my old chess programs were welcome at tournaments, but
as soon as players started losing, the program wore out it's welcome!
The change was like night and day. We
palace and the Cluster is in another
part of the town.
Its for the chess-engine completly transparent. The engine writes/reads to
stdout/stdin. If the GUI is on the same PC, the communication is directly
done. When playing remote SSH (Secure Shell) is started and the rest goes as
before.
Chrilly
.
Thanks for the information.
Chrilly
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, were one travelled to tournament, shake
hand with the programmer of the opponent, entered the moves by hand
These internet tournaments are also a cultural shock.
Chrilly
GnuGo-Suzie_02_43.sgf
Description: Binary data
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is for humans
and not for computers.
Chrilly
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of the human mind.
I think it is also generally an interesting and important topic to present
computation results in a more natural way than numbers. The Schweinehund was
just for entertainment. But entertainment is also a serious and difficult
business.
Chrilly
On 12/14/06, Chrilly [EMAIL
, the dog can
say forget it, was just a joke. The difficult part is that it is an
online-algorithm. In case of an annotation one can analyse the whole game
before generating some comments.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: 荒木伸夫 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent
?
Chrilly
On 12/13/06, 荒木伸夫 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello. I'm Araki. Nice to meet you.
I'm searching researches about human annotation to game records for
machine learning. (for example, these stones are weak, this move is
for attack those stones, this move was bad ...etc) Does anyone know
have better manners than chess players. This is probably
true in real-live, but on an unpersonal environment of a server all the
Go-etquiette vanishes.
Chrilly
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or 21 Kyu. I wanted to play, but it would be more interesting
to play a few ranks below.
Chrilly
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the programmers are all too strong.
Chrilly
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-critical software. But in your case you
have already a Java and a C++ version. This is a big chance. I would develop
both versions further in parallel.
Chrilly
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simpler and more efficient than the
double-hashing scheme of Orego.
Chrilly
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no
additional information. Usually one does some estimates beforehand if it
pays to search for another iteration.
Chrilly
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 6:03 PM
To: computer-go@computer
Le Vendredi 01 Décembre 2006 11:57, Chrilly a écrit :
On a P4 3.0Ghz mono processor, the number of evaluations per seconds is
in the
order of 4500/s in 9x9, 2500 in 13x13 and 1100 in 19x19.
If one assumes 300 moves/Plies on 19x19 it would be about 330 KNodes/sec?
No, that just mean 1100
else had to play follow the leader to catch up.
Do you think its also the future of 19x19 or only of 9x9 (maybe 13x13)?
Chrilly
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Are there any details, or publications, on what Mogo is doing at 19x19?
I'd thought consensus opinion here was that monte carlo scaled to 19x19
badly.
Darren
A very stupid question: What is Mogo, who has it written?
Chrilly
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, a memory leak is a sign of a flaw in
the design. The Java garbagge collection avoids the crash. But this is no
advantage, because the flaw is just hiden. The programm will also eat up
memory in Java. A bug which lets the programm crash is a harmless bug. The
really bad bugs never show up.
Chrilly
(but not against God).
I think the same will happen also in Go. They have only a chance if God
plays human-Go. But against non-human moves they are certainly as helpless
as the chess-players. I assume its even worse, because Go is more pattern
related and more complex than chess.
Chrilly
from
this blunder.
This is a rather drastic example of Chrillys law: Humans can not play in a
complicated position more than 10 moves in a row without making an serious
blunder. And it also very drastic example how far they are away from God.
Chrilly
do not even know the game of Go).
What would it mean for a 19x19 player?
What would it mean to build a 10**12 nodes/sec machine (which is with todays
technology not possible, but according to Moores law in 10 years).
Chrilly
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liberty.
Unfortunately this rule is not valid in the position. White is
unconditionally dead. All liberties are equal, some are more equal.
Chrilly
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(there are other ones like Many Faces which do not suffer
from this problem)..
Chrilly
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