Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-16 Thread Ian Grigg
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A YURL aware search engine may find multiple independent references to a YURL, thus giving you parallel reporting channels, and increasing trust. Of course, this method differs from the YURL method for trust. The parallel channel method assigns a trust value to a site

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-16 Thread Zooko
Ed Gerck wrote: IF Alice is trusted by Bob to introduce ONLY authentic parties, yes. And that is the problem. Cryptography can't prevent Alice from telling lies about the web page that she showing to Bob. But it can prevent that Bob sees a page different than the one that Alice meant for

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-16 Thread Perry E. Metzger
Ian Grigg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perry E. Metzger wrote: 1) The YURL makes key management and replacement effectively impossible. Well, I would have said it suggests a different method. Instead of regimented, hierarchical and fixed key management - an idea of poor track

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-16 Thread Trevor Perrin
At 11:26 AM 7/16/2003 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: Ian Grigg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A YURL aware search engine may find multiple independent references to a YURL, thus giving you parallel reporting channels, and increasing trust. Of course, this method

RE: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-16 Thread bear
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A YURL aware search engine may find multiple independent references to a YURL, thus giving you parallel reporting channels, and increasing trust. But any single search engine is itself a single reference, regardless of how many times and contexts it

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-16 Thread Ed Gerck
Mark S. Miller wrote: At 08:48 AM 7/16/2003 Wednesday, Ed Gerck wrote: IF Alice is trusted by Bob to introduce ONLY authentic parties, yes. And that is the problem. In order for the Carol that Alice introduces Bob to to be inauthentic, there must be some prior notion of *who* Alice was

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-16 Thread Tyler Close
On Wednesday 16 July 2003 11:26, Perry E. Metzger wrote: It seems to me to be more a bad idea, fully realized. Perry, throughout this thread, you have made a number of factually incorrect statements about YURL. Never have you provided an argument to backup any of these statements. I know that

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-15 Thread Ben Laurie
Ed Gerck wrote: From your URLs: The browser verifies that the fingerprint in the URL matches the public key provided by the visited site. Certificates and Certificate Authorities are unnecessary. Spoofing? Man-in-the-middle? Revocation? Also, in general, we find that one reference

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-15 Thread Zooko
Tyler should probably reference SFS on his HTTPSY pages. Here's a good paper focussed specifically on this issue. http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/mazieres99separating.html Although I haven't looked closely at HTTPSY yet, I'm pretty sure that it simply applies to the Web the same notion that SFS

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-15 Thread Perry E. Metzger
Zooko [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Although I haven't looked closely at HTTPSY yet, I'm pretty sure that it simply applies to the Web the same notion that SFS applies to remote filesystems. It is an excellent idea. SFS makes it practically impossible to do key updates, and the trust model

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-15 Thread Ed Gerck
Ben Laurie wrote: Ed Gerck wrote: Also, in general, we find that one reference is not enough to induce trust. Self-references cannot induce trust, either (Trust me!). Thus, it is misleading to let the introducer determine the message target, in what you call the y-property. Spoofing

Re: Announcing httpsy://, a YURL scheme

2003-07-14 Thread Perry E. Metzger
Tyler Close [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have demonstrated the theory behind YURLs by providing an implementation, the Waterken Browser, and by explaining how two other widely used systems implement the theory. Having an implementation demonstrates nothing whatsoever about security -- many