Re: [cryptography] Q: CBC in SSH

2013-02-12 Thread Peter Gutmann
Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com writes: SSHv2 has a this approach and it has not been a disaster there. It's still quite a mess. To compare the two, my TLS suite-choosing code is more or less: highestSuite = 0; foreach suite suite = readInteger(); if priority( suite )

Re: [cryptography] Q: CBC in SSH

2013-02-12 Thread Paterson, Kenny
Hi Peter, On 11 Feb 2013, at 22:45, Peter Gutmann wrote: Ralph Holz h...@net.in.tum.de writes: From what I can tell from our data, the most common symmetric ciphers in SSH are proposed by client/servers to be used in CBC mode. With SSL/TLS and XMLEnc, this mode has had quite some

Re: [cryptography] Q: CBC in SSH

2013-02-12 Thread Paterson, Kenny
Jeff, There have been attacks on SSH based on the fact that portions of the packets aren't authenticated, and as soon as the TLS folks stop bikeshedding and adopt encrypt-then-MAC I'm going to propose the same thing for SSH, it's such a no-brainer it should have been adopted years ago

Re: [cryptography] Q: CBC in SSH

2013-02-12 Thread Peter Gutmann
Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com writes: If we want a policy of limiting what cipher suites we allocate codepoints to then we should have an *explicit* policy, and we should not wimp out when it comes time to enforcing it. It'll never work, people will clamour for their pet vanity ciphers no

Re: [cryptography] Q: CBC in SSH

2013-02-12 Thread Peter Gutmann
Paterson, Kenny kenny.pater...@rhul.ac.uk writes: In fact, SSHv2 adopts a Encrypt MAC construction and all fields in SSHv2 are authenticated. But the issue is that this authentication cannot be checked until the whole message has arrived, and the receiver has to use a field in the plaintext to

Re: [cryptography] Q: CBC in SSH

2013-02-12 Thread ianG
On 12/02/13 03:04 AM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com writes: I'd go further: this could be the start of the end of the cipher suite cartesian product nonsense in TLS. Just negotiate {cipher, mode} and key exchange separately, or possibly cipher, mode, and key

Re: [cryptography] Eating your own dog food

2013-02-12 Thread ianG
On 12/02/13 04:49 AM, Kevin W. Wall wrote: [Full-disclosure: I am not a Bit9 customer; I just get their spam^H^H^H^H, er, informative product emails, thanks to a colleague who signed me up for their mailing list.] Security company, Bit9, has been hacked and have had their private code-signing

[cryptography] Zero knowledge as a term for end-to-end encryption

2013-02-12 Thread Tony Arcieri
I have seen several services/people using the phrase zero knowledge recently, e.g.: https://spideroak.com/ Based on my understanding of zero knowledge proofs and the traditional use of zero knowledge in cryptography, this usage seems... novel, to put it politely. In the case of SpiderOak,

Re: [cryptography] Zero knowledge as a term for end-to-end encryption

2013-02-12 Thread ianG
On 13/02/13 05:33 AM, Tony Arcieri wrote: I have seen several services/people using the phrase zero knowledge recently, e.g.: https://spideroak.com/ Based on my understanding of zero knowledge proofs and the traditional use of zero knowledge in cryptography, this usage seems... novel, to put