Re: trade-offs of secure programming with Palladium (Re: Palladium: technical limits and implications)

2002-08-15 Thread Russell Nelson
Adam Back writes: So there are practical limits stemming from realities to do with code complexity being inversely proportional to auditability and security, but the extra ring -1, remote attestation, sealing and integrity metrics really do offer some security advantages over the current

RE: trade-offs of secure programming with Palladium (Re: Palladium: technical limits and implications)

2002-08-15 Thread Trei, Peter
Russell Nelson[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] writes: You're wearing your programmer's hat when you say that. But the problem isn't programming, but is instead economic. Switch hats. The changes that you list above may or may not offer some security advantages. Who cares? What really matters

Re: Palladium: technical limits and implications

2002-08-12 Thread AARG!Anonymous
Adam Back writes: +---++ | trusted-agent | user mode | |space | app space | |(code ++ | compartment) | supervisor | | | mode / OS | +---++ | ring -1 / TOR |

Re: Palladium: technical limits and implications

2002-08-12 Thread Tim Dierks
At 07:30 PM 8/12/2002 +0100, Adam Back wrote: (Tim Dierks: read the earlier posts about ring -1 to find the answer to your question about feasibility in the case of Palladium; in the case of TCPA your conclusions are right I think). The addition of an additional security ring with a secured,

trade-offs of secure programming with Palladium (Re: Palladium: technical limits and implications)

2002-08-12 Thread Adam Back
I think you are making incorrect presumptions about how you would use Palladium hardware to implement a secure DRM system. If used as you suggest it would indeed suffer the vulnerabilities you describe. The difference between an insecure DRM application such as you describe and a secure DRM

Re: trade-offs of secure programming with Palladium (Re: Palladium: technical limits and implications)

2002-08-12 Thread Tim Dierks
At 09:07 PM 8/12/2002 +0100, Adam Back wrote: At some level there has to be a trade-off between what you put in trusted agent space and what becomes application code. If you put the whole application in trusted agent space, while then all it's application logic is fully protected, the danger

Re: trade-offs of secure programming with Palladium (Re: Palladium: technical limits and implications)

2002-08-12 Thread Adam Back
At this point we largely agree, security is improved, but the limit remains assuring security of over-complex software. To sum up: The limit of what is securely buildable now becomes what is securely auditable. Before, without the Palladium the limit was the security of the OS, so this makes a