Re: unforgeable optical tokens?

2002-09-21 Thread David Wagner
Barney Wolff wrote: Actually, it can. The server can store challenge-responses in pairs, then send N as the challenge and use the N+1 response (not returned) as the key. But why bother? What does this add over just using crypto without their fancy physical token? The uncloneability of their

Re: unforgeable optical tokens?

2002-09-21 Thread eli+
Perry E. Metzger wrote: An idea from some folks at MIT apparently where a physical token consisting of a bunch of spheres embedded in epoxy is used as an access device by shining a laser through it. I can't dig up the memory, but I think I heard of a similar idea -- random structure in

Re: unforgeable optical tokens?

2002-09-21 Thread Ian Clelland
Not really. Illuminating the device at different locations and angles is certainly not as good as a cryptographical challenge. Since the location and angle is done by some mechanical device, the numers of locations and angles is certainly small I think you're right here; in order for the

Re: unforgeable optical tokens?

2002-09-21 Thread Derek Atkins
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I can't dig up the memory, but I think I heard of a similar idea -- random structure in transparent solid, difficult to copy -- used in some kind of tag or seal for nuclear security. Can anyone remind me what this might have been? This isn't security -- this is a

Re: unforgeable optical tokens?

2002-09-21 Thread Hadmut Danisch
On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 12:11:17AM +, David Wagner wrote: I find the physical token a poor replacement for cryptography, when the goal is challenge-response authentication over a network. In practice, you never really want just challenge-response authentication; you want to set up a

Re: unforgeable optical tokens?

2002-09-21 Thread David Honig
At 12:07 PM 9/20/02 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote: A couple of places have reported on this: http://www.nature.com/nsu/020916/020916-15.html An idea from some folks at MIT apparently where a physical token consisting of a bunch of spheres embedded in epoxy is used as an access device by