Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Karsten M. Self
on Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 08:17:41AM -0800, Eric Rescorla ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: on Tue, Jan 07, 2003 at 04:10:27PM -0800, Eric Rescorla ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: However, if he can price discriminate, he can sell two copies,

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Dima Holodov
On Thursday 09 January 2003 01:03 pm, Perry E. Metzger wrote: I am unaware of legal region-free players being generally available in the US, although I may be wrong on this. They are available at any Best Buy or Fry's Electronics. They just can't advertise it on the boxes. See the following

Re: DeCSS, crypto, (regions removed??!)

2003-01-10 Thread Gilles Gravier
In any case, some countries in Europe (this is the case for France and Switzerland, for example) are starting to make it illegal to sell disks that are not REGION-2 in the stores... so in effect, you can buy all the region free players in the world, if you have no access to the internet to buy

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Bill Stewart
At 08:45 AM 01/08/2003 -0800, Eric Rescorla wrote: Maybe. Not necessarily if that meant that no new movies ever got made. Now, the UK isn't a big enough market for this, but consider what would happen if the US said listen, free drugs would be great for consumers so let's get rid of all drug

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread R. Hirschfeld
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 10:18:33 + From: Pete Chown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alan wrote: Another argument for the regions is the differing formats for TV signals. (NTSC v.s. PAL.) It is a bogus argument as you can find DVD players that will convert the signal with little or no problem.

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread William Allen Simpson
Eric Rescorla wrote: William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Therefore, your graphs say to me: market segmentation is indicative of Of course. But the point that you seem to be missing is that there are situations where a monopoly can Pareto-dominate non-monopoly situations. The

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Eric Rescorla
Bill Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's fairly well-known that far more people died from regulation-caused delays in deployment of several heart-attack drugs than from active damage by failures such as misuse of thalidomide, though some people still believe that we're better off because

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Eric Rescorla
William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Eric Rescorla wrote: William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Therefore, your graphs say to me: market segmentation is indicative of Of course. But the point that you seem to be missing is that there are situations where a

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Eric Rescorla
John S. Denker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Eric Rescorla wrote: When there is a conflict between liberty and Pareto dominance, economists get a headache. Really? Maybe some of them do, but I suspect most of them wouldn't formulate it as a conflict at all; they would just ask how

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Eric Rescorla
William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I thought I made a fairly clear and cogent original synopsis, Clear, cogent, and wrong. Eric Rescorla wrote: So, in the matter of DVDs, we all agree that the product _has_ been produced. There are only artificial barriers in the market. No.

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread William Allen Simpson
I thought I made a fairly clear and cogent original synopsis, but apparently we're heading off into religious wars. I'm going to invert Eric's argument: Eric Rescorla wrote: William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The question raised was whether the commodity would be produced. The

ADMIN: Okay, no more DVD pricing and Pharma for now.

2003-01-10 Thread Perry E. Metzger
The discussion has been interesting but has gotten WAY out of the area of crypto politics per se. I'll be blocking that stuff unless it makes interesting new crypto or crypto politics points. -- Perry E. Metzger[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread William Allen Simpson
I've been composing this reply for days, and the thread just keeps getting longer, so I'll try to keep the response concise, and consolidate in a single message. Before it gets lost in the shuffle, I do want to thank John Gilmore for actual technical crypto information! I had no idea that

Re: DeCSS, crypto, law, and economics

2003-01-10 Thread Eric Rescorla
William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [..] Therefore, your graphs say to me: market segmentation is indicative of Of course. But the point that you seem to be missing is that there are situations where a monopoly can Pareto-dominate non-monopoly situations. Eric Rescorla wrote: