-Caveat Lector- Dear Brigade, This is the transcript from last nights Crossfire. Guests are Mike Murphy (GOP) and Pat Choate (Reform). Although there was a lot of off topic conversation and downright false statements made last night, this transcript does point out that the Reform Party and their members are willing to put aside their views on social issues. Pat Choate is not pro- life, but he is pro-USA and pro-government reform, and he supports Pat Buchanan 100%. My email overflows with pledges to support Pat from people who have put their views on social issues on the back-burner. These folks support Pat because he stands for putting America and Americans first. They know he is pro-life all the way and that he will never stand down on this issue and that regardless of Party, Pat Buchanan is going to lead the battle to save the unborn. These folks don't believe that social issues should be part of their platform -- and it is not. But, they will fight to the death for the sovereignty of the United States, for the right to keep and bear arms, government reform, rebuilding our military, protecting our borders against illegal immigration, and for an America First trade policy. They know that there is only one person they can trust to carry their banner all the way into the White House. One person who will never let them down once he is elected -- Pat Buchanan. GO PAT GO!! Linda --------------------------------------------------------- CROSSFIRE WITH PAT CHOATE CNN: CROSSFIRE - http://www.cnn.com September 1, 1999 GUESTS: Pat Choate, Mike Murphy BYLINE: Bill Press, Robert Novak Pat Choate, a former Reform Party vice presidential nominee, and Republican strategist Mike Murphy discuss the Reform Party and the political future of Pat Buchanan. THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Tonight, will Pat Buchanan really go? Will he leave the Republican Party to join the Reform Party? What impact will it have on the 2000 presidential race? ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press; on the right, Robert Novak. In the CROSSFIRE, Pat Choate, former Reform Party vice presidential nominee, and Republican strategist Mike Murphy. BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Good evening. Welcome to CROSSFIRE. Pat Buchanan rails against corporate takeovers, but will the next corporate takeover be Buchanan's takeover of the Reform Party from Jesse Ventura and Ross Perot? Today, Pat's supporters say it looks more and more likely, although he's promised to meet with RNC chair Jim Nicholson before he makes a final decision. Pat's having serious talks. He's plotting a new campaign strategy, including possible running mates. He's releasing a new book on foreign policy called "A Republic, Not an Empire." He's all ready, sources say, to bolt the GOP and seek the Reform Party nomination for president, a step his chief adviser, sister Bay, doesn't exactly deny. Quote: "He is seriously considering this, but he won't have a decision anytime soon." Anytime soon, others say, could be within the next couple of weeks. So tonight: Is Pat Buchanan headed for the Reform Party? And if so, what are the consequences for George W. Bush, for Al Gore and for Pat himself? Bob. NOVAK: Pat Choate, you met with Pat Buchanan a couple of weeks ago? Pat Choate, FORMER REFORM PARTY VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I met with him before the Iowa and talked with him before the Iowa primaries at the Ames Straw Poll, and I talked with his sister. NOVAK: Did you ask him straight out to seek the Reform Party nomination for president? CHOATE: Yes. NOVAK: And what did he say? CHOATE: He's interested. He said he was interested. He would think about it. His sister has subsequently said that they're very interested, that they're giving it serious consideration of coming across to the Reform Party. NOVAK: Now, on "CAPITAL GANG"... CHOATE: But they also tell us they have not made a decision. NOVAK: On "CAPITAL GANG," July 3, Pat Buchanan said this -- quote -- "I've been a Republican all my life, as you know, and I don't believe in divorce." Has he become a divorce-conscious person now? CHOATE: I think the Republican Party is leaving Pat Buchanan. It's not really his choice. Take look at the Republican Party on the issues. Take it on trade. Take it on immigration. The Republican Party over the years has changed from what it was when Pat Buchanan joined it. The Republican Party is simply come to stand for winning at any cost. It has become, I believe, an issue-free zone. Pat Buchanan believes in things. The Reform Party stands for things. It's a good match. NOVAK: Now, Pat, you -- Pat Choate, you have ever been on the nomination -- the nominee for vice president were it not for a little fellow named Ross Perot. He picked you. CHOATE: A good friend and -- that's absolutely right. NOVAK: Have you ever talked to him about what he thinks about Pat Buchanan as the standard bearer of his creation? CHOATE: Ross Perot is standing neutral in this. He has not made up his mind on whether he would run. I would suspect that he will not be running under the existing circumstances. NOVAK: That's not exactly what I asked you. I asked you... CHOATE: No, but that's my answer. NOVAK: Has he ever told you anything about that? CHOATE: No, no. He likes Pat... NOVAK: You didn't say at all: What do you think of him? CHOATE: No. He likes Pat Buchanan. He thinks Pat Buchanan is a man of integrity. Pat Buchanan has come to his positions honestly. He doesn't run out and do a poll to determine what he thinks on issues. That's the kind of a person that a Perot can respect and the Reform Party can respect. NOVAK: Mike Murphy, my best source of what's happening on the right is to go to the left. "Nation" magazine, believe it or not; "Nation" has been talking a lot about this Pat Buchanan potential move, and it reports two days after Ames, there was a powwow summit meeting at Pat's Mclean humble home, where all of his -- they discussed this possibility. And among all of his advisers, according to "The Nation," it was unanimous that Pat should leave the Republican Party and seek the Reform Party nomination. Do you have any doubt sitting here tonight? You've heard now Pat's conversation that this is exactly what Pat Buchanan is going to do? MIKE MURPHY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Oh, yes, I have some doubt. I read "The Nation" thing, too, and I haven't seen him so happy since May Day, because they're delighted at the idea that the lion of the Nixon White House would be the lap dog of the Al Gore campaign. He'd be a spoiler, and all he'd do is hurt the Republican Party. Will he do that? That is the question. I don't know. I can tell you that I am sure it's tempting. It's a platform. It's an opportunity to make a lot of noise. There's a couple -- $10 million, $12 million of taxpayer money there, and I think that Ross Perot strings behind the scene to make trouble in the Reform Party against Ventura are being polled. But it's a mistake, because he'd do nothing but become a tool for the left. PRESS: Now let's try to put ourselves in Pat's shoes, OK. He feels that he got screwed out of the nomination by his party in '96. He looks at the party this time. He sees the rules have been changed not to help him. He sees there's no real debate on the issues. That has been shut down. He sees the whole GOP establishment is flocking to front-runner George W. Bush, who Pat Buchanan believes is soft on abortion and he believes there's no difference between George W. and Al Gore on trade, and on China and on some other key issues. Plus, you've got $12.6 million sitting on the table. If you're Pat Buchanan, why wouldn't you? MURPHY: Because it's a Faustian deal with the devil, because you're going to become a tool of the Democrats to defeat the cause Pat believes in. What Pat ought to do is have the courage to stay in the Republican Party, run on his issues and let the voters be the deciders. He shouldn't chicken out. This is a coward's way out. He ought to compete in our contest not run to an irrelevant third party candidacy and become a prop for Perot's egomaniacal need to, you know, step on Ventura. PRESS: Michael, let's be realistic. He has no chance in winning in the Republican primaries. He knows that. His advisers tell him that. His only chance for getting out there, getting in the debate, making his points, speaking his mind and fighting for his causes is this chance. MURPHY: If no chance is the calculus, if you say he has no chance in the Republican Party, he has none as a Reform Party candidate. I'm not sure he'd even get the Reform Party nomination. There would have to be a hijacking in the Reform Party. (CROSSTALK) NOVAK: ... Choate, go ahead. CHOATE: I want to ask Mike a question. If it is such that George W. Bush cannot win if Pat Buchanan leaves, why doesn't he offer him the vice presidential slot? MURPHY: The truth is, I think Bush, or whoever the nominee is -- McCain, or Dole or whomever -- probably will win, but it'll be harder, and the reason not to offer Pat the nomination slot -- they make their own decisions of course -- is do Pat's issues really have any support? And that's what Pat ought to try in the Republican process. (CROSSTALK) MURPHY: ... 19th century economics and 18th century immigration policy and put them together. If nobody votes for him, that is the fault of Pat's issues. Nobody owes him the nomination. CHOATE: Mike, what you want is all of his support, all of his voters, and yet you don't want to do anything on his issues. MURPHY: I want the right to meet the left. CHOATE: No, no, no. NOVAK: Pat Choate, I want to ask you a bunch of little questions that you can answer in... (CROSSTALK) CHOATE: And I'll try to give you short answers. NOVAK: You're pro-choice on abortion, are you not? CHOATE: I am, and campaigned on that. NOVAK: Yes. Are you for gay rights, or would you like to restrict gay rights? CHOATE: I would not restrict gay rights. NOVAK: How do you feel about affirmative action? Would you like to continue it or abolish it? CHOATE: I would abolish it. NOVAK: You would abolish affirmative action. How do you feel about the across-the-board tax cuts? CHOATE: I would entirely change the tax system as such. I would go to a national sales tax. NOVAK: How do you feel about across-the-board tax cuts though? CHOATE: I think they're just a simple placebo in this case. Literally these tax cuts would be made out of Social Security... PRESS: Are you sure you're not a Democrat? CHOATE: No, no. NOVAK: I just gave you four issue that Pat Buchanan, who I know, feels strongly about. CHOATE: Can I give you four others where... NOVAK: No, no. CHOATE: Can I give you on trade? Can I give you on the World Trade -- can I give you on NAFTA? Can I give you on immigration? You know he feels strong on those. NOVAK: Can I answer my question before I ask it. (LAUGHTER) NOVAK: Isn't it a fact that like you want and the Reform Party, which originally started as a party on many issues, to change American politics into a one-issue protectionist party, because you've always been a protectionist? CHOATE: No. Absolutely, I am for defending American workers, but I am for campaign finance reform. So is the Reform Party. NOVAK: Is Pat Buchanan for campaign finance reform? CHOATE: Absolutely. Look at his Web site. I am for... NOVAK: Not your... CHOATE: ... paying down the national debt. I am for the trade policies that we're talking about. You run this out and what you're going to find is a very close fit. That fit doesn't exist in the Republican Party. It's not there. MURPHY: But he won't fit in the Reform Party. I checked the Web site. I looked at both of them. My computer exploded when I was done looking at Reform and Buchanan. CHOATE: Well of course, you're very excited. MURPHY: Well, here's what Buchanan says on his Web site. He says trillion-dollar tax cut, Pat says. Reform says, no tax cut paid on the debt. NOVAK: That's right. CHOATE: Yes, that's right. Help Pat and the Brigade in our Battle for the White House... 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