"MAHER: You did make a movie called "Get on the Bus."
LEE: Right.
MAHER: Which was about the Million Man March, which was, I can't believe it, ten years ago. And this past Saturday, Louis Farrakhan did a kind of a reunion of the Million Man March. I don't think we got a million people this time. But he was saying last Saturday in Washington that he thinks that the federal government, there was a conspiracy to actually blow up those levees so that they would flood the poor, black districts in New Orleans. I have to tell you, I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe it. But when you see some of the things that have gone on in this country—
LEE: Exactly. It's not farfetched. And also, I'd like to say, it's not necessarily "blow it up," but the residents of that ward, they believe that they – there was a hurricane – Betsy in '65 – they felt the same thing happened, where a choice had to be made. One neighborhood – got to save one neighborhood and flood another 'hood – flood another neighborhood. Look, if we're in L.A.—
MAHER: No, that's been done before.
LEE: If we're in L.A. and there's an emergency situation, we call from Beverly Hills and we call from Compton. Which one is the cops coming to first? [laughter]
MAHER: Right. But that's different than pro-actively blowing up a levee to flood one neighborhood. I'm not saying it's not possible.
MARTIN: But that would require a conspiracy that – I mean, look, we can all understand – anybody with any knowledge of history can understand why a lot of people feel this way, that that's a reasonable theory. But it would also require a conspiracy at three levels of government – the local, the state and the federal. It would require no white person—
LEE: Presidents – presidents have been assassinated. So why is that so farfetched?
MARTIN: Yeah, because it would require – it would require no white person—
LEE: It's been done.
MARTIN: [overlapping]—in the government to have a moral compass. It would require no black person to have a spine. And I think that's a very hard case to make.
LEE: But let me ask a question: do you think that election in 2000 was fair? You don't think that was rigged? [applause] [cheers]
MARTIN: It's not a question of being fair. It's a question—
LEE: [overlapping] You don't think that was rigged? If they can rig an election, they can do anything.
MARTIN: Yes, but you know how it was rigged.
CARLSON: Here's the problem with what you're saying. I was in New Orleans right after the hurricane, in the Ninth Ward. And while I didn't hear anybody say the levee was blown up by the federal government, I did interview a bunch of people who were stuck there who said they believed this was part of a conspiracy to rid New Orleans of black people. They honestly believe that. I didn't argue with them. I just listened to what they said and I felt bad for them.
So as you – as you sit here, who is someone who is rich and has options, and are watched by people who are poor and have no options, it seems to me it's your responsibility, your obligation to tell them the truth. And you know the truth, which is, the federal government did not blow up those levees. You don't feed the paranoia and the craziness—
LEE: First of all, how is that – how is that feeding the paranoia?
CARLSON: Because you're saying it's entirely possible, when you know perfectly well it's not entirely possible.
LEE: How is it now impossible?
CARLSON: The federal government blew up the levees? A) there's no – zero evidence; B) it's difficult to blow up a levee; C) there were news cameras all around and nobody saw it. I mean, let's be real here.
LEE: Because nobody saw it—
CARLSON: [overlapping] Why would they do it?
LEE: --because nobody saw it, it means it couldn't have happened?
CARLSON: It's – okay, I could say—
LEE: Let me ask a question.
CARLSON: Okay.
LEE: With the history of this country – you ever heard of the Tuskegee Experiment? Answer me. [applause]
CARLSON: I don't want – I'm not going to sit here for your history lesson. I want to know—
LEE: How is that a history lesson?
CARLSON: --I want to know – of course, I've heard of the Tuskegee Experiment.
LEE: Let's – explain to the audience what the Tuskegee Experiment was.
CARLSON: I'm not even going to get into the history lesson with you.
LEE: Why not?! Why not?!
CARLSON: I'll tell you why.
LEE: Why not?!
CARLSON: Because you're making a serious allegation—[voices overlap]
LEE: Why not?
MARTIN: But don't you feel like this is a movie we've seen before?
CARLSON: I agree.
MARTIN: Where the – first of all, you're a great documentarian, so if you can do that story, then—
LEE: First of all, wait a minute, wait a minute, can I just say for a minute—
MARTIN: [overlapping]—but your documentary on "Four Little Girls" was brilliant.
LEE: [overlapping]—that's not – that's not – people have this conception that the whole documentary is about what happened with the levee. That is not about the whole thing. That is not everything we're doing with this documentary.
MAHER: Right, we know that.
MARTIN: No, I hear you. And I think your documentary, "Four Little Girls," about the Birmingham bombings, the 16 th Street bombings, was brilliant. [applause] And for people who haven't seen it, you know, I—
LEE: Thank you.
MARTIN: --I don't know – it's a wonderful—
MAHER: [overlapping] And for those who don't know what happened, the Tuskegee Experiment is they did purposely give black men syphilis.
MARTIN: They did. But this feels like—
LEE: [overlapping] To see – to see how long – see what would happen to human beings with untreated syphilis—
MARTIN: [overlapping]—but this feels like a movie we've all seen before. It's like, you know, one person charges conspiracy and then—
LEE: [overlapping]—and there are many other examples – we go down a line – where stuff like this happened to African American people. So I don't put anything past the American government when it comes to people of color in this color in this country. I'm sorry. [applause] I just feel that way.
MARTIN: But then, you know – but then you make the argument and then the – forgive me – the right gets to denounce you as being crazy. And it just feels like – this feels like a very old cycle that we've been—
CARLSON: [overlapping] It's not even a right-left question. It's a rich-poor question.
MARTIN: [overlapping] Let me finish my point. It just seems like this is a cycle that we get ourselves into whenever we try to talk about race.
LEE: [overlapping] First of all, I would not even be doing films if I was being worried if people – you know, if they called me "crazy." They said "Do the Right Thing" was going to – was going to cause riots all over the country. Told Universal Pictures, don't even let it open—
MARTIN: [overlapping] My point is, it just seems like—
LEE: [overlapping]—because Spike – because Spike throws the garbage can through the window, all young black Americans will do the same thing. You can't open in movie theaters. [laughter]
MARTIN: You're right, you're right. And that's lame.
LEE: You can't open in movie theaters.
MARTIN: But it seems like – why is it that when we try to talk about race, we get into this script and it's like a movie that we've all seen, and everybody knows their part? And it just seems—
CARLSON: [overlapping] Well, I don't think you're crazy at all.
LEE: [overlapping] What script are you talking about?
CARLSON: I don't think you're crazy. I think you're reckless and irresponsible. I think you're feeding people's paranoia on the basis of no evidence. If you have evidence the government did it, I'll be the first one to denounce the government. I'll be the first one to leave the country if they did that. [applause] [cheers] But don't say it if you don't have any evidence!
LEE: Look, as a—
MARTIN: [overlapping] What about – what about—
LEE: [overlapping]—as a filmmaker, it's my job to go in there and find the stuff.
CARLSON: No, but you're more than a filmmaker. You're someone who people listen to. And that's why I think you are making people more paranoid, more hateful, more afraid and more—
LEE: What are you talking about?! CNN did a segment themselves about that! I didn't make that up. CNN did a segment themselves.
CARLSON: And did CNN suggest—
MAHER: [overlapping] The New York Times doesn't have that much influence, but Spike Lee. . . ? [laughter] [applause]
CARLSON: I think the New York Times has influence. I just don't think the New York Times can lead us to war.
MAHER: But they can.
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