[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Yes, June, this does sound like the latest excuse of some sort of philanderers. There was a TV series on The Learning Channel or Discovery that covered a great deal of this but certainly not the one-in-seven figure. One of the segments was entitled "The Sperm Wars" and although it was fairly well produced, much of it was theory. I would have to see a great deal of documentation on that to believe so many children are conceived in such a manner. Guess the mothers' "need to have DNA spread around" would explain it. This "need" would certainly work both ways, with women constantly on the outlook for superior DNA to father their children. Talk about chaos! Amelia - Original Message - From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent' -Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- From: "name AOL USER" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Human sexuality and its place in modern society is a fascinating field. I suggest you read up on it more, to understand the bigger picture. I have. Which is why I consider this 'need to spread DNA' bullshit. June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 00-01-23 18:33:14 EST, you write: But just WHO is getting these blood tests? Not regular Jane and John Schmoes... not happily married couples. These are blood tests being conducted when there is already a problem, or suspected problem, in the relationship. The 10% illegitimacy rate was from a test done on all babies born in a particular hospitala pure blind test, except to the degree the economic/social status of the people going to that hospital might affect relationships. As I recall it was done 10 or so years ago, and included troubled and non-troubled relationships. The study is, I believe, cited in the book "THE SPERM WARS" which looks at the male drive to father children from a supposedly scientific point of view. One interesting theory cited is that the shape of the penis is designed (through thrusting) to pull out the sperm of a previous "donor" before depositing the new. Also, to address some of your other points: it has been shown that so-called trophy wives are not the cause of infidelity in MOST cases. Perhaps you've got an ax to grind here. But even so, men are drawn to women who 1) are fertile and 2) attractive. Fertility is mostly a function of age; many wives go through menopause in their late thirties. Men are ALSO strongly drawn to warm women with good personalities. And I suspect that in these modern times of economic abundance, that this is probably the dominant determinant...we live longer lives, and survival of the species is not important on an individual level. On a purely biological basis, this may be bad for humanity as a whole. What society (men in particular) deems attractive is somewhat cultural (big breasted women are in favor/out of favor/in favor etc.) Did you know the most common form of plastic surgery in Brazil is breast reduction? Purely a regional/cultural phenomenon. G. B. Shaw wrote in "Man and Superman" that men and women chose each other as mates to produce a better offspring even though they don't know they're doing this. In history, fathers have killed offspring they believed to be biologically not theirs. Since the primal drive is to spread one's DNA, Perhaps for men. Women look for more in a relationship than to spread DNA. Women look for stability (financial mostly) in their relationships because it provides the best chance for the child to grow up and then pass on its DNA. But then again, the woman is KNOWN to be the mother. The Jewish religion, I'm told only recognizes MATERNITY in determing family lineage and "Jewishness", because it is the only sure way. a man would not want to expend economic and emotional resources to bring up a child not his. Explain that to all the stepfathers and adoptive fathers in the world. Nothing in life is simple. Parenting is very emotional, but there is an underlying "drive" to pass on the DNA . Since adoption requires the consent of both adoptive parents, I suspect the man is also a nurturer. Or is the couple showing off its fecundity and fertility to the outside world, to gain society's approval? Probably a little bit of both. Human sexuality and its place in modern society is a fascinating field. I suggest you read up on it more, to understand the bigger picture. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- From: "name AOL USER" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Human sexuality and its place in modern society is a fascinating field. I suggest you read up on it more, to understand the bigger picture. I have. Which is why I consider this 'need to spread DNA' bullshit. June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- --- Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I consider this 'need to spread DNA' bullsh I really, REALLY don't think it's DNA they're trying to spread. evil grin __ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- Oliver Curry, the principal researcher, said long working hours and commuting by fathers could contribute to uncertainty about whether children have been fathered by the man who is bringing them up. Pretty sexist. Men aren't the only ones working long hours and commutingmothers do, too... The team from the LSE is calling for investigations to be set up by the government's new National Family and Parenting Institute. Yes, let's look for any excuse to get Big Brother more involved in citizens' lives... They believe that mistrust over paternity may be an overlooked factor in family breakdown. Women are driven by primitive urges to seek the optimum genes for their children, which can lead to them sleeping with a "high social-status Casanova" as well as their regular partner during the fertile period around ovulation, researchers claim. Some more sexist bullshit. More men sleep around, especially with 'trophy' runway model types, than most women do... And women who DO 'sleep around' are usually looking for any number of things, but getting pregnant is NOT one of them... It's obvious that all these studies were conducted by men. June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- In a message dated 01/23/2000 9:09:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oliver Curry, the principal researcher, said long working hours and commuting by fathers could contribute to uncertainty about whether children have been fathered by the man who is bringing them up. Pretty sexist. Men aren't the only ones working long hours and commutingmothers do, too... The team from the LSE is calling for investigations to be set up by the government's new National Family and Parenting Institute. Yes, let's look for any excuse to get Big Brother more involved in citizens' lives... They believe that mistrust over paternity may be an overlooked factor in family breakdown. Women are driven by primitive urges to seek the optimum genes for their children, which can lead to them sleeping with a "high social-status Casanova" as well as their regular partner during the fertile period around ovulation, researchers claim. Some more sexist bullshit. More men sleep around, especially with 'trophy' runway model types, than most women do... And women who DO 'sleep around' are usually looking for any number of things, but getting pregnant is NOT one of them... It's obvious that all these studies were conducted by men. June Perhap the interpretations are not PC (sexist bullshit), but the facts can't be wrong can they? Just a simple DNA/Blood type match as far as I can tell. The study is consistent with earlier work that found a 10% impossible blood-type match between newborns and their supposed fathers. In history, fathers have killed offspring they believed to be biologically not theirs. Since the primal drive is to spread one's DNA, a man would not want to expend economic and emotional resources to bring up a child not his. This was more critical in times when resources were scarce, but the biiological drive instilled in men still exists, I believe. Tough on the kids though, since it ain't their fault. Reminds me of of the old adage about how...There are no illegitimate children, only illegitimate parents. I feel that if a man isn't the biofather, he should not be unwillingly be required to support a child. If it were to happen to me, I'd take my real kids overseas and abandon the wife to fend for herself---maybe to set up house with the "real" father. This was not part of the marriage contract, and laws written to protect women and children are patently unfair in this regard. If 50% of all marriages end in divorce, and 10% of kids are illegitimate, this would suggest that with a 100% discovey rate, 25% of all divorces might be caused by this. Looks like society's little dirty secret. For once, scientific progress (DNA matching) on a mandatory basis could actually serve to solidify marriages and provide a better emotional climate for children if other husbands felt the same way I do. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- From: "name AOL USER" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhap the interpretations are not PC (sexist bullshit), but the facts can't be wrong can they? I think it was Mark Twain who opined: "There are lies. There are damned lies. And then there are statistics." Statistics can be skewed to give whatever meaning one chooses. Just a simple DNA/Blood type match as far as I can tell. The study is consistent with earlier work that found a 10% impossible blood-type match between newborns and their supposed fathers. But just WHO is getting these blood tests? Not regular Jane and John Schmoes... not happily married couples. These are blood tests being conducted when there is already a problem, or suspected problem, in the relationship. So one can only say that in one out of seven TROUBLED relationships, it seems that the husband of the woman is not indeed the father of a particular child. That only says that in approximately 14 percent of troubled relationships, the woman lied about the paternity of a child (or was mistaken)...in approximately 86 percent of these relationships, the husband IS the biological father, and nothing whatsoever can be construed about the sexual behavior, or possible misbehavior, of the wife in the relationship... And this tells us absolutely NOTHING regarding the population as a whole... unless the 2000 Census takers also demand blood samples from each and every citizen, we have no way of knowing what percentage of fathers amongst the general population are indeed the biological fathers... Indeed, this study was conducted in Great Britain, and as such can only be applied to approximately 14 percent of troubled relationships in that country, and tells us absolutely nothing about actual paternity in other countries. In history, fathers have killed offspring they believed to be biologically not theirs. Since the primal drive is to spread one's DNA, Perhaps for men. Women look for more in a relationship than to spread DNA. a man would not want to expend economic and emotional resources to bring up a child not his. Explain that to all the stepfathers and adoptive fathers in the world. For once, scientific progress (DNA matching) on a mandatory basis could actually serve to solidify marriages and provide a better emotional climate for children if other husbands felt the same way I do. Fine. I hope all the chippies that end up with kids when these married fathers decide to have an extramarital fling also take advantage of this mandatory DNA testing you're so fond of. I suspect that if everyone everywhere were required to submit to these DNA tests, that perhaps we may find that indeed approximately 14 percent of married women have been unfaithful to their spouses, while 86 percent have been faithful (or at least weren't stupid enough to get pregnant whilst having their fling)...but that we'd find the numbers inverted for men, IOW we'd find that approximately 86 percent of married men had had extramarital affairs, while only 14 percent had remained faithful (or at least weren't stupid enough to get another woman pregnant with their child)... June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] TIMES: One in seven fathers 'not the real parent'
-Caveat Lector- A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/" /A -Cui Bono?- London Times January 23 2000 One in seven fathers 'not the real parent' Lois Rogers, Medical Correspondent AT LEAST one in 10 children was not sired by the man who believes he is their father, according to scientists in paternity testing laboratories. Some laboratories have reported the level of "unexpected" paternity to be as high as one in seven when they perform DNA genetic tests on blood samples from supposed parent and offspring. There are now seven government-approved laboratories doing paternity testing. Cellmark Diagnostics in Abingdon is the largest and receives more than 10,000 requests a year. One in five of them is "private" and has not been ordered as a result of a court or Child Support Agency dispute. David Hartshorne, spokesman for Cellmark, said that in about one case in seven, the presumed father turns out to be the wrong man. "It is surprising how often the mother is wrong about the person she thinks is the father," he said. Marriage breakdown and more births outside marriage have increased disputes about paternity and the desire for testing, he added. In addition to DNA evidence, other studies of mass blood samples suggest that increasing numbers of women are unsure if their husbands are the fathers of their children. This phenomenon of misattributed fatherhood has been investigated in a newly published study by social scientists at the London School of Economics (LSE). Oliver Curry, the principal researcher, said long working hours and commuting by fathers could contribute to uncertainty about whether children have been fathered by the man who is bringing them up. "It can have major consequences for the way men treat their supposed children and the amount of time, money and emotion they invest in them," Curry said. "It can range through the entire spectrum from serious abuse to deciding not to pay for their education, or not buying them the latest expensive trainers." The team from the LSE is calling for investigations to be set up by the government's new National Family and Parenting Institute. They believe that mistrust over paternity may be an overlooked factor in family breakdown. Women are driven by primitive urges to seek the optimum genes for their children, which can lead to them sleeping with a "high social-status Casanova" as well as their regular partner during the fertile period around ovulation, researchers claim. David Buss, a psychologist from the University of Texas who is about to publish a new study on the subject, said: "A proportion of these misattributed fathers will believe that the child is genuinely theirs, and often the mother tries to foster that belief." He also estimates that the tendency for women to shop around for the best genes leads to them making mistakes about who has fathered their child. Soraya Khashoggi, 57, former wife of arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi, has revealed how DNA tests established her 18-year-old daughter, Petrina, to be the child of Jonathan Aitken, the disgraced former Conservative minister. Khashoggi said her ex-husband had completely accepted Petrina: "He gave her his name without ever asking who her true father was," she said. Paula Yates, the television personality, discovered at 37 that her real father was Hughie Green, the Opportunity Knocks star. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soap-boxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
