-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.cia-drugs.com/Franklin/index.html An interesting Federal Court proceedings. Om K --[3]-- MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, may I offer this? THE COURT: Exhibit 5 is received. MR. DECAMP: Thank you, Your Honor. Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) You mentioned parties, pictures, a lot of pictures apparently took for Larry? A. Oh, yes. Q. Is that correct? When I was in Oregon during the 45 minutes I had I saw more pictures than I thought could exist in a whole museum in a lifetime. And diaries apparently written by you, is that correct? A. Yes. I always kept notebooks. I have a full sized one similar to this numbered from I to 28 so I have every hour of the day. And for the most part I've tried to keep them accurate unless I was doing something to where it may come back and haunt me. Like providing things for Gary Caradori or things like that I would cover the diary up by doing something so if somebody picked it up to read through it they wouldn't see that I was the one who provided something and Id be tracked down. Q. Rusty, these pictures and diaries, III be honest with you, I've seen some of the things in the limited amount of time and I have never seen anything such detail. Do you really write every day down like this? A. Every day. I've got one sitting in my knapsack back here. Every hour. I can tell you pretty much what I've done within the hour usually within 15 minutes. Q. These diaries dated back to when you were with Larry King? A. Keeping diaries since high school. Q. If these pictures and these diaries were turned over to us or to the court so we could go through them, you could go through them, would you be able to provide more information possibly to this court or -- A. Oh yes. Q. -- or any court or U. S. Attorney on some events if they still exist? A. Yes, I do believe. MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, I'm not sure how to make this request, there's any way this court could refer that to the judge out there, a county judge offered to preserve them and turn them over to us eventually to me for a case , but they've since got entangled. I'm not sure how you do it. Any way this court could get that material ordered turned over to us? To a U. S. Attorney or somebody that could look at it. THE COURT: Well, I don't see any way. But I suppose the major concern I have is that the sole purpose of this hearing is to determine how much money would compensate Mr. Bonacci for whatever Mr. King did to him. MR. DECAMP: I understand that, Your Honor. Just hopeful some of the other things that are of even more paramount -- THE COURT: They may be to you, you see, but for this lawsuit, this hearing, I can I say there's anything more paramount than that. Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Are there any other pictures here, a picture, would you identify this one? A. Those are the same two you submitted. Q. Blowups of those others? A. Yeah. Q. Do you have other pictures other than the ones in Oregon secreted anywhere, hidden? A. I hid them, if they still exist. I have no idea. I haven't been back. Q. But there are other pictures? A. Yes, there are. Q. Would they include any of those you gave Gary Caradori? A. I believe so. Some of them I had copies of. I had a dark room out in my farm. And some of the things I would make copies of. More than one. Photocopies of some of the things or whatever. And they were placed in hopefully protective situations to where weather and such wouldn't get to them. They're in very difficult places to -- Q. Do you recognize this picture? A. Yes. Q. Identify it. A. That's one of the private jets and limousines we threw, or we flew in on this private jet. Q. Who's in the picture? A. That was the captain, I believe Larry King is the one standing in back of the limousine here. As for the other people, they're already inside. And I think that was taken at Dulles airport. Q. Dallas or Dulles? A. Dulles, out by Washington. Q. Dulles? A. Yeah. Q. And when would it have been taken if you know? A. Spring of 88. That's when the majority of this went on was in the winter and spring of 88. MR. DECAMP: Like to offer this, Your Honor. THE COURT: It will be Exhibit 6. It's received. MR. DECAMP: No further questions unless you have some final comments or observation you'd like to make that you want to get to a judge in a court. A. That's basically it from me right now. There's so much that's went on it's hard to bring everything up all in this short of a time. And copy of it all. Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) When did you learn you were possibly coming here? Was it Wednesday? A. Oh, right now? Q. Yes. A. I've been trying to get back for almost a couple of years now to do this. And they've hampered everything I've done. Q. When did you learn that I had made, when did you -- A. Wednesday late afternoon. Q. So Wednesday late afternoon? A. Finally got through to a different parole officer to where she gave the okay. I don I know who got to her or what. But the whole attitude changed night and day. About what I, what I was, had to offer. And what I was trying to accomplish. So -- Q. And you're aware of the fact that I first learned of your existence for real by being called by the Oregon State Patrol? A. I think that was Detective Pogge got ahold. Q. Detective Rader was his name. A. Rader. Q. And did you have a copy of this book in your possession? A. Yeah. My brother had overnighted me a copy when I was in San Diego. Q. And was looking in there that he identified your name? A. Yes. Q. As, is that correct? A. Yes. As associated with this. And at that point everything just went, they clamped down on me so hard. They put me in solitary cell. I mean, it was just one thing to the other. They would come in and either send me to the doctor or have somebody come in to talk to me. And they tell me, okay, you did this, you did that, and they'd just drill me, whatever I had supposedly done. And then they'd send me back to my cell and let me sit. Or they'd get you in and the doctor would put you on medication, they pushed psychotic drugs unbelievable, way more than what should have been for depression, whatever else. They wanted everybody in that unit or whatever unit I've been in to get in that med line every time so they could get them dependent on the drugs. You could tell that you were getting ready to go to court if you had anything that was controversial, people had things that were controversial or trying to fight their cases, they could discontinue their drugs or for some reason screw up the orders a day, two, three days ahead of time. And then they would be totally out of balance when they went to court. You know, it was pressure tactics that were, you know, unbelievable. I'd never been in any kind of a situation like that. I have no idea what to expect. I've been just flabbergasted. MR. DECAMP: Okay. I have no further questions, Your Honor. Like to offer a copy of this book since it was the thing that generated. THE COURT: It will be Exhibit 7. It's received. Did you ever have any association with Paul Bonacci? THE WITNESS: I knew who he was. THE COURT: I'm sorry? THE WITNESS: I knew who he was. THE COURT: How did you know who he was? THE WITNESS: Through Larry King. THE COURT: Through Larry King. THE WITNESS: Larry King. THE COURT: Larry King talk about him? THE WITNESS: Oh yeah. THE COURT: What did he say? THE WITNESS: He wanted me to take pictures of Paul, various other children or various other people. THE COURT: Did he say why? THE WITNESS: In compromising position, you know, sexual type things. Actually Larry wanted me to do a gay porn and kiddie porn for him and he pushed that so hard. And he, you know, pointed out Paul and tried to get things in that case. You know, he wanted me to go with Paul and that. I have no inclination towards being homosexual, anything like that. I avoided wherever possible that I could. THE COURT: Did you take any pictures of Paul Bonacci as far as you know? THE WITNESS: I may have. I may have. I don't, you know, without going through, I have got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pictures in 20 years, it's hard to keep track of just one or two. THE COURT: Okay. Thank you very much. You may stand down, sir. THE WITNESS: Appreciate it. THE COURT: Okay. Mr. DeCamp? MR. DECAMP: Your Honor, the next witness I'd want to call is Paul Bonacci. THE COURT: All right. THE CLERK: Sir, would you state your full name and spell your last name, please? THE WITNESS: Paul Anthony Bonacci, B-o-n-a-c-c-i. THE CLERK: Paul Anthony Bonacci, B-o-n-a-c-c-i. PAUL BONACCI, Called as a witness, being duly sworn, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DECAMP: Q. Paul, I had originally planned to just go through detail of everything in the petition. For the purposes, as I understand it, of this hearing all that is presumed to be true. MR. DECAMP: Is that correct, Your Honor? THE COURT: Yes, that's right. That's acceptable. Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) So for my purposes today I just want to briefly talk to you about how your life has been impacted, changed if you would, by Larry King. And all the things that he involved you in as a young boy. Go ahead. A. Well, when I first met Larry King and stuff I had already been abused by some other people. But the one thing that I can remember a lot, Larry King, the most was the fact of all the threats that he used to use to try to keep all us kids in. THE COURT: Sorry, didn't understand. A. All he, Larry King, after I first met him and stuff he -- Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Speak slowly and clearly, Paul. A. He was very controlling. And he would use threats of, he was always threatening you if you told anybody that you would wind up dead. Several times he told us that we'd end up dead of overdose and stuff, even though a lot of the drugs people were, you know, that he was threatening to overdose me with I wouldn't even go around. I mean, I got, he was one that supplied me with most of the drugs I did, which was mainly just like speed and uppers and downers and stuff. After a while that's how I got up in the morning, how I went to bed at night, was because of the drugs and stuff. And that was mainly to mask the abuse that I was going through. And Larry King took us on a lot of trips. I mean, I can't even begin to number how many trips I went on. With Larry King to Washington, D. C., to Kansas City, Chicago, up into Minnesota and Los Angeles. He always insisted when we went places he was always concerned about the way we were dressed a lot of times. If we weren't dressed properly he would make us, he would send us out with Larry The Kid or with one of the other older guys and stuff to a store and they would be given either cash or credit cards and stuff to where they were, purchase whatever he wanted us to wear. And at his parties, which we a lot of his parties were at the Twin Towers, or his house, or in Washington, D. C., any city we're in he had us go to a lot of parties. He would bring guys in and stuff that he would tell us that we supposed to, what we were supposed to do with them. And we went in and did what we were told to do. And he, every, if anyone ever tried to get out of line or tried to leave or said they were going to tell anybody or stuff he would, I got, he would threaten us with the fact that, you know, we could wind up dead or we'd end up in jail. That was his big threat was, well, you will be charged with something that you didn't do or I can get anybody to say anything I want for the right amount of money. And he also used the fact that he had, he was close associate or good friend with Alan Baer and also with Police Chief Wadman. And I had already met, you know, I'd met Alan Baer through on the streets and stuff. But he would use the fact that Alan Baer had more contacts than he did even with the fact that Alan Baer had more legitimate money, he liked to put it. It wasn't money that could be documented and nobody could question it. And with Wadman he would basically use that as a threat that, you know, I could have you killed or anything could happen to you and, you know, you'll just disappear like all the others have. And I know at that, in 83 my stepfather died and I had contacted both Alan Baer and Larry King and told them I wanted no more to do with the parties and with any of it. And I told them, you know, they could kill me, and that would be over with and stuff. In fact, a day or two later, which can be testified to by my mother, and my brothers and stuff, we were at my grandmother's house down on about 29th and Park Avenue. And a car drove by and somebody yelled something that nobody else understood, but I did. And our car was shot. And I was standing right by the car, it went into the door that was maybe a foot or two right next to me. And at first everybody thought it was a, you know, somebody thrown a firecracker, it was just around the 4th of July. And, but I knew because I had seen the guy's face and it was a guy that we called Larry The Kid. And the window was busted on the car. And I saw the bullet, I was the first one to see the bullet hole. My mom and them called the police. And at that time and stuff we, I just let it go as to the fact that it could have been, I didn't say possibly who it was at all because that was a message to me that I had better keep my mouth shut that, you know, I would definitely be killed. And on a lot of the trips that he took us on and stuff he had us, I mean, I met some people that I don't feel comfortable telling their name because I don't want to -- Q. Are you still scared? A. Yes. Q. And you asked me not to question you about family or any of these influence things in your life because you don't want anybody injured, is that right? A. Yes. Q. Do you still have multiple personalities? A. Yes, I do. I will always probably have both the personalities. I mean, I can, it's easy to live with now because I don I have any traumatic things to cause me to switch personalities which would really do me a whole lot of harm. But I know that even with my affiliation with Larry King and stuff, I know for a fact now to myself that he knew about the MPD and also was in touch with and was one of my controllers. Q. You've had three separate psychiatrists examine you, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And were each of these psychiatrists hired and paid for by the State of Nebraska or one of subdivisions of the State of Nebraska? A. Yes. Q. And were they hired to determine whether you really did or did not have multiple personalities? A. The first psychiatrist was Dr. Beverley Mead and he first was involved when I first went to jail. Because at that time and stuff they said that I was probably under a lot of anxiety and stuff because of the charge and stuff. And he examined me and I don I even remember the first time he examined me, I don I remember until about the fourth or fifth time he examined me. Because every time he examined me until one time he had me just kind of relax and just, and it was the first time it came out while he was out, or I was out, the other personalities were not, he told me that I had MPD and stuff. This is like after he talked to me four or five times and stuff and said in talking to me and stuff, I came to that time I was shocked about where I was at. Because up until that point I hadn't even realized I was in jail as Paul, I was always another personality that had handled everything and stuff. This was like about three to four weeks after I'd been arrested and I didn't even, I hadn't gone, I mean, I had no idea about any of it. And, but, he was the one that first diagnosed me with the MPD. And Q. Can you stop just a minute? A. Yeah. Q. I'm not talking to Paul, am I? A. No. Q. Who am I talking to? A. I used to be known as Wesley but now I'm called Tony. THE COURT: I'm sorry, you're who? A. Used to be Wesley, now my name is Tony. Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Why is Wesley here? A. Because I figure it's best if I tell it because lot of things Paul just doesn't want to have to go through a lot of times. Q. Understand. A. I'm having a hard time because I knew everything that was going on, and I failed to stop it. Q. You failed to stop it, Wesley? A. Yes. Q. Right? Do you remember Dr. Mead? A. Yes. Q. Dr. Mead was the first psychiatrist you saw, wasn't he? A. Yes. Q. Dr. Mead on behalf of the police department examined you, is that correct? A. Yes. He said that the police wanted to take me over to St. Joseph Hospital where they could have me placed under hypnosis to see if everything that I was saying, so they could get out the details a little bit more easily. Q. But before you ever went under any hypnosis is it not true that you had repeatedly told your story, the story of Larry King, of Franklin, of Alan Baer, the abuse and everything from the beginning, is that true? A. Yeah. First in 1986 it was, I think May 20, no, it was 8th, April, I believe around the first of the month and stuff of 1986 and stuff I had gotten contacted by Northwest High School that I had, because I had missed approximately 80 days that semester. And they wanted to know if I was going to drop out of school. And they requested that I come in to the school and have a meeting with the vice principal and my assistant, my counselor, Dr. Wiedemeyer, actually Wiedemeyer, and also lady named Diane Zipay who was, at that time and stuff, she was a district counselor for OPS schools. And the three of them talked to me briefly and told me that my ex-girlfriend at that time and stuff, Nancy Owens, not related to Alisha Owen at all, not even the same spelling of the name, but Nancy Owen had spilled her guts to her mother. And her mother contacted the school because I had told Alisha --not Alisha Owen, Nancy Owen, easy to get those the two names confused -- but Nancy Owen that what -- because we were dating and this kind of stuff, I had informed her about the sexual abuse that I had gone through. And I had mentioned that if it ever came out and stuff I'd be dead because of the, because of the people who were involved were, had a lot of -- trying to think of the word -- a lot of, they were really public people in Omaha. And they also had a lot of money. And it was at that time and stuff that my counselor asked me if I ever --when I went in for the meeting and stuff, he asked me had I ever been abused. And at that point and stuff I asked my mother to leave the room. Cause she was there too. I asked her to leave the room. And I told the counselors in essence everything that, most of the stuff that had happened and who had abused me. At that point they stopped it, they called the Omaha Police Department, who had already been contacted in advance of that I was told because they said they were waiting to speak with me. And they sent down two detectives, plainclothesed detectives and stuff. Who spent a period of almost two hours at the school in the principal's office, or vice principal's office at that time, now he's principal, James Bell, who was the vice principal at that time, and they questioned me. And at that time I told them about just about everybody who had abused me. I named all the names and then they -- kind of got scared because one of the detectives kind of looked familiar but hadn't said a word up until he asked me a question and stuff. As soon as I heard his voice, that it's, basically scared me to death because at that point I realized that he was one of the police officers that I had seen at a lot of the parties with Alan Baer and Larry King at the Twin Towers. And at that point I panicked and I made up a story that I can I believe I made up, that I had had a gun and I was down in the woods down by my house and I had attempted, thought about shooting myself, then I decided I wasn't going to. At that point they stopped it and had me taken the Nebraska Psychiatric Institute where I stayed for 38 days And they, you know, supposedly because I was suicidal, which wasn't the truth, I was just scared to death that if word got back to Alan Baer or Larry King that I was as much as a dead man. My life wasn't worth anything at that point. I figured if I made like I'm crazy or something maybe they'll just go away and leave me alone. And for the most part they did. They tried to erase they even came to the school. Q. Okay. Let me just stop you there. You heard Noreen Gosch testify this morning, right? A. Yes. Q. Do you remember meeting her in prison? A. I remember meeting her, yeah. Q. Who would have been the personalities that would have talked to Noreen Gosch? A. That would have been, I believe at that time and stuff, one that was called Mikey. Q. That's what I thought. A. And he's integrated and stuff and I have all his memories. Q. You believe Mikey's integrated? A. Yes. Q. You really believe that? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Dr. Mead, after he examined you, told the courts and the legislature, as I recall, and he testified before the legislature with you and I think that's part of your exhibits, part of your pleadings, that you had multiple personalities but that he believed your story. Is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Then you were examined by another psychiatrist ordered by the courts I believe? A. Yeah. That was, she was from Immanuel, her mind slips me. Doc -- Stark? Dr. Stark or something like that, I'm not positive. Q. Do you remember that examination? A. Yes, I do. Q. Do you remember what the results were there? A. She concluded just as Dr. Mead did that I had multiple personality disorder and everything. They basically told me everything I said was true that I told her. Q. Did you then have another examination by another doctor? A. Yes, I did. Q. Was that one paid for and ordered by the legislature of the State of Nebraska? A. Yes, it was. Q. Do you remember the name of that doctor? A. Dr. Densen-Gerber. Q. And it's my recollection, you correct me if I'm wrong, that you had extensive interviews with Dr. Densen-Gerber, is that correct? A. Yeah. She came down and started several, I don't remember how it was, several hours, she went through many different personalities. And she, I don't know why she did it, but she had attempted to, several times and stuff, to have me say things that weren't true. But I corrected her every time because I wanted it to be known that, you know, what the truth was. And I found out later she did that on purpose, I believe to try and trip me up to see if I was telling a story if I was just making stuff up. Q. Do you remember the conclusions she gave? A. Yes, she came up with the same conclusion the other two psychiatrists had come up with. Q. They believed you had been turned into multiple personalities as a result of sexual and other types of abuse, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And that this had occurred at the hands of particularly Larry King and some of the other people you've named, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. I want to go back to the Johnny Gosch story. Who would be the best person that could tell me about that? A. Me. Q. Wesley? A. Yes. Q. And you believe Wesley can today because Mikey is integrated, is that right? A. Yes. Q. Did you participate in the kidnapping of Johnny Gosch? A. Yes. Q. Tell us about it. A. It was through a guy named Emilio that I had met several years before while my family lived in Carter Lake, which I had met him down in, there's a, I don I even know what the name of that park is, I think might be Levi Carter, not really important, it's between the pond and big actual lake and stuff. I met Emilio through a kid that I had met down at the park and stuff. His name was Mike, or we called him Mikey too sometimes, but mainly Mike. He was approximately my age. And he told me about his friend and stuff. And when they, in talking to me and stuff they found out I had been abused and stuff, Mike had and stuff, he went, told Emilio. It was at this point Emilio started to begin to use me to go to these, not really parties, but just like, like child pornography, that's what his main thing was was making child porn. That's how he basically supported himself. And it was shortly after that that they asked me to go on a trip with them to Des Moines. And I believe that was around Labor, September, we left on September 4th of 82. And we went to Des Moines. We stayed there in a hotel which 1, all I know is it was on the, on the west side of Des Moines. And we, they went through what they were going to do. At first I didn't know what they were there for. The first thing, this one guy came in and says this is the one. And I at that point still had no clue as to what they were talking about and stuff. They said that, you know, they were going to take this kid, they were going to kidnap him and stuff. And I was a little bit upset. And I said that I wasn't wanting to go along with them. And I'm going to try to tell this in the best order that I can so that it's complete and put all the personalities together because I think in the past it's all been broken up. And I think what I need to do is put it altogether finally. And I can do that, the other personalities couldn't. What happened was when they took us to Des Moines, after found out, it was still early in the afternoon and stuff. Q. Who are we talking to? A. Still Wesley. And it was still early in the afternoon and stuff by the time we got there. This guy said this is the one they wanted and stuff. I as, I don ~ remember which personality it was, didn't want anything to do with it. Emilio took me for a little drive, stuck a gun in my head on a dirt road and told me I either did this or he was going to blow my brains out right there and then. At that point I agreed to go along with whatever, you know, they 'want and stuff. Went back to the hotel. That's where Tony, who is another guy, not me, he was an older guy and stuff. He had a lot of pock marks on his face, kind of skinny. He also can pose as a woman, which he has done on numerous occasions. He or Tony, myself, and Mike went into the other hotel room while Emilio, this guy named Sam and another guy talked in the hotel room. And were discussing, I guess, the details of how things were going to go down. Later on brought all three of us back in, Tony, myself and Mike, and they put up some chairs like it would be a car, and driving, and they said, this is how we're going to do it. You and Mike will be in the back seat when we pull up to where this kid's at and stuff, we're going to ask him a question. We're going to go around the block. Which they did. Then they came back and stuff and they had myself and Mike out of the car, or Mike was in the car, I was out of the car and stuff. I went up to him, asked him a question. And at that point he was close enough tothe car where Tony had pulled up in a van and they pushed him in the car, and they had a rag with chloroform in the bag that they had us stick over his face. And then put it back in the bag after he was out. After that point they told all three of us to stay down in the back seat so nobody could see us. I think it was also so we couldn't see out to see where we were at. And at that point we drove several miles and stuff, we met up with a station wagon and a van several times and stuff. Which I know Tony was driving one of them, and this other guy, I believe name was Sam was driving the other. Several times they had us switch vehicles with Johnny and stuff. And eventually we ended up in the back of the van, a white van. And we drove from there, the car that had originally taken Johnny and drove east toward, they said that he was going to drive east toward like Chicago. And the station wagon that we transferred him into and stuff, they were going to have it driving going down south so that if anybody had seen anything and stuff they'd have it going out in different directions. But what they did was out in the country where there was nothing but corn fields and stuff where you couldn't see anything, they stopped and transferred him into the van. That's why nobody would ever see the actual vehicle that was going west toward Omaha. And we did stop, we did go through Council Bluffs because they made us stop at a place that I kind of know kind of well and stuff over in Council Bluffs. It was, at the time I believe it was called The Joker Lounge, which strangely enough is owned by, was owned by my, one of my uncles. And they went in, they just went in to get some drinks. And nothing that went on there. They left us out in the car. But that's when I peeked my head out. Cause they had a curtain in the van where you couldn't see out the front and they had curtains on the side on the side windows. It didn't have windows on the back but it had some side windows on the side too. I peeked out, that's when I seen The Joker Lounge and I recognized it because of the fact my uncle owned it. And I'm not sure if it was Fat Jacks or The Joker at that time, they've changed so many times. But then we drove up to Sioux City, Iowa. Which is where we stayed for the night. And the next day they took me back to Omaha. And -- Q. What happened that night? A. That night at first Emilio and this couple other guys went into town to drink. And they left me, Mike and Johnny in a room that had no windows on it. That they had locked from the outside of the room and stuff. They lock us all three in this room. And that night when they got back they ordered me and Mike to do some things with, sexual things with Johnny. And they filmed it so that they could sell the film or whatever they were going to do with it. And then I know that they took me, the next day they took me back home. And then a couple of months later I got a chance to take a trip out to Colorado. And that's where I seen Johnny Gosch the second time. And at that point he was staying with a guy that I only knew as the colonel. And it was a kind of a ranch house but it was out, had a raised floor, underneath there was a space that had been dug out. And that's where they kept some of the kids at and stuff when they caused trouble or were bad. And they had a lot of lookouts on this road and stuff. If anyone was to even get close to the place that the kids could be taken up into the hills before anybody could ever get there. It was also the same place that in 92 when 1, 1992 or early 93 when I got out of prison where America's Most Wanted had taken myself and Roy Stephens to Colorado and stuff to see if I could find any of these places where they had taken us. And I had no idea that Roy had been in that same area. He'd never found the house. He had found elephant rock and some other places that stood out to, you know, would have stood out to anybody and stuff that had been in this house, because it's visible from the house. And he had been down that road. But I didn't find the main road that he, that you would think most people would find, because when they took us to this house they always took us up, I guess up the road and stuff where we have to take an old raggedy bridge across I believe the Arkansas River and alongside the river. And when they took us out there I was shocked, because as we were going on this road a guy popped out of the middle of nowhere with a radio, which I'm sure they could tell you that, this guy popped out and he had a radio and stuff. And I have never told anybody up to this time and stuff, but that's one of the guys who was involved. Q. Involved in the kidnapping? A. Involved in the kidnapping. Q. Did you know who he was? A. I never knew his name. All I know he was close friend with the Colonel and arranged for auctions. And shortly, I mean, 1, shortly after we drove past him he went back up into the woods I believe, made some calls. And that's why we wouldn't have found nothing in that town. I think they knew in advance that we were there because we'd stayed in some hotels and stuff going out there and stuff. That I believe that they knew we were in the area and they hightailed it out. Because when we went to the other road that I had recognized and stuff we stopped at this guy's house who was a mailman. And shortly after we left his house he was hightailing it down to the trailer park which I had talked about. And I don't know, we don I know what happened because we just seen his mail truck going down to the trailer park and it wasn't a mail run because it was way too late for that. Q. Okay, I'm going to interrupt you here because I know we probably want to get to lunch here. I have just one more witness, might take probably three to five minutes, I'd like to ask just a couple final questions. Alisha Owen, do you know her? A. Yes, I do. Q. Do you know Robert Wadman? A. Yes, I do. Q. Do you know Alan Baer? A. Yes, I do. Q. Do you know Larry King? A. Yes, I do. Q. Were all those people at these parties that you've heard described here today? A. Yes, they were. Q. Where were the parties? A. Like I stated, a lot of them were at the Twin Towers. In various apartments and penthouses. Some were at a farm house. Some were actually at Larry King's house. Which was on a, all I know it had a big hill on it. It was nice, nice house and stuff. Also down in Washington, D. C. We had parties in Kansas City, couple of parties in some place in New York. Q. What was the nature of these parties? A. A lot of the parties when we went to, that we went to and stuff, the ones in the Twin Towers were basically for one reason. And that was for sex. Q. Sex between who? A. There was sex between adult men and some other adult men but most of it had to do with young boys and young girls. Q. Young boys and young girls with each other or with older folks? A. With the older folks. Also some of the parties, there was some parties above The French Cafe that they would bring people in and stuff that were from out of town. Those were specifically for sex with minors. Also in Washington, D. C. there were, there was also parties like Rusty had already talked about where there was parties after a party. Where they would have a party where they would have a legitimate party with like some politicians, businessmen. And a lot of them never knew about what happened at the after, you know, the party afterwards and stuff. Like in Washington, D. C. there was a lot of parties where they would be senators and congressmen who had nothing to do with the sexual stuff. But there was some senators and congressmen who stayed for the parties afterwards. And one person that I'm not afraid to talk about because his, because Larry King always said him and this guy were on the opposite ends of the field because this guy was a Democrat and Larry King was a Republican. That's a known fact and stuff. And this guy, every time I see him on TV and stuff, my wife knows my hatred for him. Because every time I see him and stuff it disgusts me because it's --his name is Barney Frank. Q. Did you have relationships with him? A. Yes. Q. Where? A. In Washington, D. C. And also I was sent to a house, I believe it was in Massachusetts in Boston where I believe it was his house because there's pictures on the wall that, with him and with different people and stuff. And that he had met I guess. But it was in his basement. THE COURT: Mr. DeCamp, sorry, maybe we better break for lunch. MR. DECAMP: Want to do it that way? Otherwise 15 minutes we can be done. We can break for lunch, whatever you say. THE COURT: I think we better break for lunch. Can we come back, what, 1:00 o'clock? MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Be in recess till 1:00. (12:04 to 1:00 p.m., recessed.) THE COURT: Mr. DeCamp. MR. DECAMP: Yes, Your Honor. Your Honor, I think probably take 10, 12 minutes with this witness, I have one other, then we should be done. THE COURT: Very well. Q. (By Mr. DeCamp) Do you understand you're still under oath? A. Yes. Q. Okay. I just want to review a couple of the incidents of your life as you've laid out in your petition and some of the things that have been discussed here today. It's impossible for us to deal with anything more than just some very limited areas. But back to the Johnny Gosch incident. How was Johnny Gosch, how was this boy selected or was he selected specifically? A. Well, the men came into the room, they had actually a couple of pictures, they had about five different pictures and stuff. They had pictures of Johnny and they also had pictures of other boys and stuff too. And the guy that I believe was Sam pointed at the one of Johnny and said this is the one. How he was selected I'm not exactly sure, but I know that they had several different photographs. And I know of the photographs, the pictures of the boys and stuff they had, one was of Johnny and stuff. He was carrying a paper sack with him on one of the pictures that I seen for sure. I'm not exactly sure how he was chosen or, you know. I know a lot of it had to do with the fact of the way he looked. Because the color of his hair and his eyes and everything. It could make them more money I guess. I -- Q. So it was not a random -- A. No. Q. -- pick any kid, it was a specific targeted kid? A. Yes. Q. And he was identified the night before? A. Yes. Q. And you were with the people that did this? A. Yes. Q. And then you were used the next morning as a young, what, was one to lure him or something? A. It was kind of like a, I don't know exactly what I was called, it was just more like I was, me and Mike were kind of used as bait. We were to -- because it's like when you see other kids and stuff you don't normally run. I mean, if an adult and stuff comes up and started asking a kid questions and stuff often times kids will run and get scared and stuff. But kids your own age are talking to you and stuff you normally aren't frightened by them. So we were there to, I guess you could say lure him or get him close enough to the car where we could get him in. Q. Okay. You in an eight or nine day deposition we did discussed Alisha Owen, discussed a lot of personalities, and discussed Robert Wadman. And you had made a claim earlier under oath, as I recall, that you had seen Alisha Owen with Robert Wadman, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And you were in fact charged with perjury because you made that statement to a grand jury, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. And those charges were dismissed against you, weren't they? A. Yes. Q. I'm going to ask you again today, you're under oath again, you're in a federal courtroom, did you ever see Robert Wadman with Alisha Owen? A. Yes, I did. As I started to state earlier and stuff, I had seen them a couple of times and stuff, like I said, at the farm house and also at an apartment in the Twin Towers. And like I said, the one time in Twin Towers I walked in on them. And actually caught them in bed together. Q. So you're saying you personally, Paul Bonacci, at the Twin Towers saw Police Chief Robert Wadman in bed with a girl we've come to know as Alisha Owen, is that correct? A. Yes. Q. Absolutely your certain? A. One hundred percent. Q. Did you see him with her in any other occasion in a compromising position? A. Like I said, mainly just at the Twin Towers and stuff. And also at the farm house I seen them a couple of times together. And I'm not sure I seen them any other times besides that. I know some other personalities may have, you know, said the one time happened different times or stuff, it was just one occasion that they were actually in bed together that I seen them. Q. And you say that knowing that Alisha Owen is in prison for saying that same thing? A. Yes. Q. Are you lying? A. No. Q. You're sure? A. I'm positive. Q. And you know you're under oath? A. Yes. I'm as positive as I'm sitting here today and stuff that I know I'm one hundred percent sure that it was Robert Wadman and Alisha Owen. Q. Did you know Alisha Owen? A. I knew of her. I never really could stand her. ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, All My Relations. Omnia Bona Bonis, Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. 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