Re: [CTRL] Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 02/05/2001 10:05:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: one for which the Clintons should be faulted. This is an important point. So far, the Clinton's have been responsive to recent criticism: they are going to pay half for the gifts taken, and half for the rent of Bill's office. If they took gifts intended for the WH but which were wrongly added to the White House gifts office list, then they will likely correct the error once it is sorted out. But the damage has already been done - they are made to appear as greedy grasping trailer trash. I am almost forced to like and admire them in spite of the faults of the administration simply because they are so relentlessly harangued. Samantha Let's face it, endless haranging is the Clinton's lot. It keeps people from watching what the Republicans are getting away with. Now we come to a new idea. Can anyone give anything they want to give to the White House? If you designate that gift as to the White House, are they forced to keep it in there forever? I have a couple of items I'd like to donate. What happens if the new first lady can't stand an item? Does she have to use it anyway? This could be wonderful. Does anyone out there know the answers or the how-to of White House gift giving? Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 02/05/2001 10:48:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it's considered an honor to have an item accepted to be part of the White House collection...it's considered a gift to the country as a whole, not to any one person who happens to be president at the time.. That's really interesting. Who decides if the item is acceptable? Wouldn't it be fun to have an item permanently in the White House? I hope they have a better system of getting rid of items than they have for old aircraft parts. I know that Jackie got new china. What happened to the old china? I think Nancy replaced Jackie's. What happened to that? I don't believe the dresses were the things that Nancy took with her. The scandal about the designer dresses happened fairly early in Reagan's first term. They would have been fairly old hat by the time the Reagans left to go to the ranch (presented to them by an admirer). Thank God no one gave Clinton a ranch. It would be the sole subject of the news for the next ten years. Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons
-Caveat Lector- On 6 Feb 01, at 5:38, Prudence L. Kuhn wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 02/05/2001 10:48:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think it's considered an honor to have an item accepted to be part of the White House collection...it's considered a gift to the country as a whole, not to any one person who happens to be president at the time.. That's really interesting. Who decides if the item is acceptable? Wouldn't it be fun to have an item permanently in the White House? I hope they have a better system of getting rid of items than they have for old aircraft parts. I know that Jackie got new china. What happened to the old china? I think Nancy replaced Jackie's. What happened to that? I don't believe the dresses were the things that Nancy took with her. The scandal about the designer dresses happened fairly early in Reagan's first term. They would have been fairly old hat by the time the Reagans left to go to the ranch (presented to them by an admirer). Thank God no one gave Clinton a ranch. It would be the sole subject of the news for the next ten years. Prudy Then there's always the possibility someone gave him Alzheimer's as a parting giftso convenient--and now poignant-- that he can't remember. I'm intrigued by all this touting of Reagan as such an important president, poised in contrast to the departing "white trash" Clinton. The effort is to compare Reagan favorably to Bush, Jr. when the one thing Reagan and Bush Jr. have in common is that they were/are both probably puppets of Bush, Sr. sno0wl A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons
http://www.wnd.com/frame/direct.asp?SITE=www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/polit ics/A26094-2001Feb4.html Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons, Some Donors Say By George Lardner Jr. Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, February 5, 2001 ; Page A03 Among the gifts that former president Bill Clinton says he is keeping as personal presents he accepted last year are $28,000 worth of furnishings that documents and interviews indicate were given to the National Park Service in 1993 as part of the permanent White House collection. The Park Service serves as a steward for the White House and, according to the White House curator's office, is the only unit with the legal authority to accept gifts for the White House. A gift meant for the current White House occupants, by contrast, is routed through the White House gifts office, a separate unit. Two of the furniture makers whose donations Clinton took with him on leaving the White House last month say they gave them to the White House as part of a widely publicized, $396,000 redecoration of the executive mansion and not to Clinton personally. "When we've been asked to donate, it was always hyphenated with the words, " 'White House,' " New York manufacturer Steve Mittman said of his family-owned business, which gave two sofas, an easy chair and an ottoman, worth $19,900 and listed by Clinton as part of the gifts he took with him. "To us, it was not a donation to a particular person." A spokesman for the Clintons, Jim Kennedy, rejected the notion that the gifts in question had been made to the White House rather than to the Clintons. He said it was his understanding that the furnishings in question were on the White House gifts office list and that the Clintons were entitled to rely on that in deciding each year which gifts they were going to keep. In the case of the furnishings, Kennedy said, the Clintons postponed a decision until 2000. He said "all of the items" listed on Bill Clinton's final financial disclosure report "were considered by the gifts office to be gifts to the Clintons that they could keep or leave behind." When the redecoration project was completed in the fall of 1993, the White House distributed a four-page summary of the work, saying it had been "financed by private donations of money to the White House Historical Association, including a donation from surplus funds of the Presidential Inaugural Committee, as well as donations of goods and services to the National Park Service." Attached was a National Park Service list of "contributors to the National Park Service" and what they had given. In addition to furniture from Mittman, the document listed "Mr. and Mrs. Lee Ficks, Cincinatti, OH., furniture; David Martinous, Little Rock, AR., rug; Mr. Brad Noe, High Point, NC., furniture; and Stuart Schiller, Hialeh, Tx., furnishings." Clinton also listed these five in his Jan. 19 disclosure report, saying he was keeping a kitchen table and four chairs, worth $3,650, from Lee Ficks; a sofa, worth $2,843, from Noe; lamps, worth $1,170, from Schiller; and a needlepoint rug, worth $1,000, from Martinous. All were merchants and manufacturers whose high-end gifts, according to those contacted, had been solicited by the interior decorator for the 1993 project, Kaki Hockersmith of Little Rock. Hockersmith, who used a Park Service pass at the time, did not return phone calls. Like Mittman, Joy Ficks, whose late husband headed the Ficks Reed Co., said she thought the custom-finished rattan chairs and breakfast table installed in the private quarters would remain there as government property. She was puzzled when she learned the Clintons had taken the set with them. "We gave it to the White House," she said. "I wondered what happened to it." Noe, who worked at Henredon Furniture Industries at the time, and Schiller, who heads Cambridge Lamps Inc. of Hialeah, Fla., did not respond to phone calls. Martinous, who operates an Oriental rug company in Little Rock, said he wanted the Clintons to keep the handwoven needlepoint he gave. Two former Internal Revenue Service commissioners, one a Republican and the other a Democrat, said that Clinton's taking the furnishings under such circumstances would appear to be an improper "conversion of government property" that could require the Clintons to pay taxes on them. They said they were not suggesting criminal wrongdoing by the president. "It's the intent of the giver that counts," said Sheldon S. Cohen, who headed the IRS under president Lyndon B. Johnson. "If it was given to him [Clinton], it's his. But if it was given to the United States, then it is improper for it to end up in his hands unless he buys it." Donald C. Alexander, who was IRS commissioner under Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford, said: "If someone gave something of value to the White House as the White House and not to the president, that is a gift to the government of the United States . . . a charitable contribution." The Clintons, he said,
Re: [CTRL] Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 02/05/2001 6:14:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Among the gifts that former president Bill Clinton says he is keeping as personal presents he accepted last year are $28,000 worth of furnishings that documents and interviews indicate were given to the National Park Service in 1993 as part of the permanent White House collection. The Park Service serves as a steward for the White House and, according to the White House curator's office, is the only unit with the legal authority to accept gifts for the White House. A gift meant for the current White House occupants, by contrast, is routed through the White House gifts office, a separate unit. Anybody know how all that stuff Nancy Reagan took was routed? If she had to pay a million in back taxes, there must have been a bale of it, and I'm really curious. Still I wouldn't give anything to anyone at the White House or to the White House either. They can afford to buy their own stuff, and if I were Mrs. Clinton I would send every piece of junk on the list back to the White House or to the original doners. What did they do with the old kitchen table and chairs by the way? That interests me. Are the things given to Good Will or are they burned as religious objects? Prudy A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 2/5/01 5:14:36 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was not clear how the Clinton furnishings might have been included on the White House gifts office list when the Park Service had them on its list. A former White House aide who asked not to be named said inclusion of the items may have been a clerical error by someone at the gifts office, but not one for which the Clintons should be faulted. This is an important point. So far, the Clinton's have been responsive to recent criticism: they are going to pay half for the gifts taken, and half for the rent of Bill's office. If they took gifts intended for the WH but which were wrongly added to the White House gifts office list, then they will likely correct the error once it is sorted out. But the damage has already been done - they are made to appear as greedy grasping trailer trash. I am almost forced to like and admire them in spite of the faults of the administration simply because they are so relentlessly harangued. Samantha Samantha A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Gifts Were Not Meant for Clintons
-Caveat Lector- From: "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Anybody know how all that stuff Nancy Reagan took was routed? If she had to pay a million in back taxes, there must have been a bale of it, and I'm really curious. If I'm not mistaken, the majority of Reagan's haul (and believe me, I'm on your side when it comes to the Reagans) consisted of the designer outfits donated to her by designers who, unless they thought the outfit was going to end up in The First Ladies Collection at the Smithsonian (there IS such a collection there, BTW), probably intended for Nancy to keep the 'donation'... That is quite different from someone donating something to the White House itself, thinking that it will become a permanent part of the White House collection...only to find that their gift to the nation was usurped by the departing First Couple as a personal gift... I could understand someone in that situation being understandably peeved... Still I wouldn't give anything to anyone at the White House or to the White House either. I think it's considered an honor to have an item accepted to be part of the White House collection...it's considered a gift to the country as a whole, not to any one person who happens to be president at the time... What did they do with the old kitchen table and chairs by the way? That interests me. Are the things given to Good Will or are they burned as religious objects? Prudy I couldn't say for sure, but years ago I read an article (in The Smithsonian magazine, as it turns out) regarding a major auction house in the DC area, that specialized in auctioning off old stuff from federal property, and the occasional gift to a congresscritter or First Couple that under law could not be accepted as a person gift... The majority of auctions were your old empty file cabinets, etc. But according to the article, usually there were at least a handful of choice items which could possibly be gotten for a song...retired china sets, old furniture, etc. I believe that according to the article, the proceeds went to the GAO... June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
