-Caveat Lector- In answer to the question of a day or two ago about the background of the Forbes family, here's an article of interest from: http://www.weberman.com/nodules/nodule9.htm MICHAEL PAINE: RUTH PAINE'S ESTRANGED HUSBAND Although her husband lived nearby and visited her frequently, Ruth Paine was separated from Michael Ralph Paine while she knew OSWALD. On November 13, 1963, Ruth Paine filed a petition for a divorce from Michael Paine in Domestic Relations Court. This petition stated they were married on December 28, 1957, and separated on September 1, 1962: "This petition alleged that about six months before their separation, Michael Paine commenced a course of unkind, cruel, harsh and tyrannical treatment and conduct toward Ruth Paine of such a nature as to render their future living together insupportable." [DK-105-1716-Hosty] Wilmer Joseph Stratton, a close friend of Ruth Paine, told the FBI that Ruth Paine, in the past, "complained of the fact that Michael Paine was so engrossed in his activities that he spent little time with his family and when with them, he was so absorbed in his thoughts and plans that he rarely discussed family matters or showed an interest in any way with problems concerning Ruth or other members of the family." Paul Lacy, the best man at Michael and Ruth Paine's wedding stated: "He had never gotten to know Michael Paine due to his reserved disposition. He said that he knew of no close friends or associates of Paine's. He stated Paine is the type of person who while friendly, is very quiet an uncommunicative and involves himself in his own affairs and never takes time to seek out friendly relations with other people or to become interested in other people or their activities." In 1960 Michael Paine inherited money from his maternal grandmother, Elsie Cabot Forbes. Under terms of her will, each of her 15 grandchildren were to receive equal shares of a fund when they reached the age of 21. The appraised value of Michael Paine's share of this fund as of January 1, 1963, was $269,000.00 MICHAEL PAINE'S FAMILY HISTORY MICHAEL PAINE'S MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER Michael Ralph Paine was born into the Paine and Forbes families on June 25, 1928. He attended Harvard University and was dropped because of low grades. He was noted as being shy and lazy. His only activities were Glee Club, Bach Coral Group and Outing Club. He then worked at the prestigious Bartol Scientific Research Foundation at Swathmore University. He served in the U.S. Army from July 15, 1952, to April 28, 1954, and received an Honorable Discharge. His military service record contained the statement dated July 15, 1952: "The following inductee, Paine, was inducted today but refused to take the oath of allegiance." [FBI 105-82555 NR 12.17.63] Like Ruth Hyde, Michael Paine's family also traced back to the CIA. Michael Paine's maternal grandmother, Elise Cabot Forbes, was the brother of Thomas Dudley Cabot, the President of United Fruit in 1948. Michael Paine commented: "He was active in the United Fruit Company. I only know we were related to the Cabots through Elise, my grandmother. I wouldn't recognize a Cabot, I've never seen one." The brother of Thomas Dudley Cabot, John Moors Cabot, was the Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs during OPERATION PB SUCCESS. John Moors Cabot visited Guatemala and reported: "Jacobo Arbenz had the pale, cold-lipped look of the ideologue and showed no interest in my suggestions for a change in his government's direction. He had obviously sold out to the communists, and that was that." John Moors Cabot held a large block of shares in United Fruit. [Mooney, Brown, Truman to Carter, p77 as cited in Washington Silhouettes] During the Truman Administration, John Moors Cabot was the Director of the International Security Affairs Office for the Department of State. In 1961 he offered the use of one of his companies, Gibraltar Steamship, to the CIA during the Bay of Pigs. Ruth Paine commented that these personages were "out of where I come from." MICHAEL PAINE'S MOTHER: RUTH FORBES The mother of Michael Paine was Ruth Forbes. Ruth Forbes was a great-granddaughter of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Ruth Forbes grandfather, who died in 1937, had been a founder and former president of American Telephone and Telegraph. MICHAEL PAINE'S MATERNAL UNCLES: THE FORBES Michael Paine commented, "Uncle Cam [Cameron], W.C. Forbes, yes, there were five brothers there, actually one of them died earlier, but five that I knew. Forbes was Governor of the Philippines and Ambassador to Japan." David Cabot Forbes was another of Michael Paine's maternal uncles. David Cabot Forbes was a distinguished Bostonian financier who owned Naushon Island, located a half-mile from Cape Cod. David C. Forbes told the United States Secret Service that "during the summer months Paine and his wife Ruth usually came to Naushon Island, at Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and remained there a few weeks each summer, but for the past two years Paine has not appeared and his wife and two children came along alone while he remained in Texas. He stated that he realized there was a family strain, but did not pry into the whys and the wherefores; that during the first two weeks in August 1963, Ruth Hyde Paine came to Naushon Island and remained there with the children for the two week period, residing with Mrs. Arthur Young, who has a home on the island. The island is owned by the Forbes estate and has been owned by this family for over 100 years. At present there are approximately 20 houses and 500 sheep on the island. All inhabitants are members of the Forbes family and very seldom, if ever, are any homes rented or leased to outsiders." Ruth Paine disagreed: "David didn't own that island. No individual does," however Michael Paine stated: "The island has been owned by the descendants of J. M. Forbes who bought it in 1834. I'm the fifth generation." One such outsider to rent from the Forbes family was J. Richardson Dilworth. The Secret Service reported that Dilworth "is employed by the Rockefeller Brothers, New York, New York. He resides at 141 Hodge Road, Princeton, New Jersey." [CD 687 p1252] In 1964 an employee of J. Richardson Dilworth, William T. Coleman, was an Assistant Counsel to the Warren Commission. MICHAEL PAINE'S PATERNAL GRANDFATHER The paternal grandfather of Michael Paine, George Lyman Paine, Senior (born July 29, 1874; died September 1967), was a descendant of a signatory to the Declaration of Independence. He graduated from Harvard University in 1896. An Episcopal Priest, he described himself as a pacifist. He was in the War Resistors League, and was involved in a lawsuit around the time of World War I, after a Naval officer stormed into his office and hit him for flirting with his wife. The Reverend George Lyman Paine defended himself on the witness stand by saying he had driven her out to the meadows around Boston and "tickled her under the chin" with a piece of "Timothy grass." From then on he was known as "The Reverend Timothy Grass Paine." Herbert Philbrick wrote: "The Communist use of the Paine family is a tragic reminder that the seeds of Marxism bear evil fruit. During my years as a counterspy, I frequently came across George Lyman Paine Sr. as a sponsor and supporter of numerous communist-front activities. Paine fathered George Lyman Paine, Jr...a follower of Leon Trotsky."Michael Paine commented, "It sounds exaggerated about my grandfather, he was a subscriber to Readers Digest. Compared to his son, I never thought of him as a radical." MICHAEL PAINE'S FATHER The father of Michael Paine, George Lyman Paine Jr., was born in New York City on November 16, 1901. He married Ruth Forbes on March 20, 1926, at Milton, Massachusetts. They were divorced in 1934 and George Lyman Paine Jr. married, Frances Drake, a follower of Leon Trotsky, the Russian Communist leader who believed in waging war against Capitalism rather than encouraging internal revolution. Leon Trotsky, exiled to Mexico, was assassinated by Soviet agents in 1940. Lyman Paine was a Trotskyist and wrote: "I came into contact with Marxism. The writings of Marx, Lenin, Engels and Trotsky opened new doors upon an old world...I became a follower of Leon Trotsky and a partisan of the world working class." [25th Ann. Rep. Harvard Class of 1922] Ruth Paine commented: "He was involved in left-wing politics before their marriage. That was part of the problem with the marriage." Michael Paine agreed: "He was very political before that, that was one of the difficulties they had." Michael Paine's parents separated when he was four years old. Ruth Paine: "It was not because of Trotskyism that he did not see his father. People didn't divorce as much then, as they do now, and there was much less skill and knowledge on how to deal with being co-parents. My understanding from Ruth Forbes was that she and Lyman thought it would be best to make a clean break and not see each other. Michael didn't really get acquainted with his father until he was grown." Michael Paine: "I saw my father very occasionally. He was an idealist. I won't say that he didn't love us. He considered his political actions far more important then tending to his own little personal thing of raising his family. I do remember going to Communist meetings with him in New York City. That absorbed his time, he didn't have much interest his children. I did not feel any resentment against the left. I admired his idealism in High School and I mentally or emotionally followed a tact that was quite similar to my father, but it led me in quite a different direction. In high school I had a long daydream of a better society. The nature of it did not fit with Socialists or Communists. During the war, my father may have gone under a pseudonym and his wife Freddie was very active in union organizing. The Trotskyites biggest quarrel was not with the Democrats or Republicans, but with the Stalinists. My father called the Soviets 'state capitalists.' No friendly blood there." ALLEN DULLES AND THE PAINE FAMILY Mary Bancroft, who claimed she had an intimate association with Allen Dulles, knew Lyman Paine: "Two of our Boston friends, Ruth and Lyman Paine, had moved to New York and gave wonderful parties in their West Side apartment. We met a lot of their friends, mostly in the arts. Ruth was a painter. Lyman, an architect, was interested in what he termed 'The ultimate reality,' which I interpreted as my old friend, Truth. Lyman and I had endless discussions about this ultimate reality while sipping highballs of bathtub gin and ginger ale..." [Bancroft, Autobiography of a Spy p54] Abigail Schaffner, who knew Michael Paine until he was seven years old gave Allen Dulles information on Michael Paine which ANGLETON gave to the FBI: TO: E. J.Brennan, Jr. DATE: December 9, 1963 FROM: S.J. Papich SUBJECT: OSWALD Enclosed herewith is a copy of a memorandum dated December (?) 1963, which Allen Dulles, former Director of the CIA received from a friend, not identified. The document, which was furnished to the liaison Agent on December (?) 1963, by JAMES ANGLETON, CIA, sets forth information concerning the family of Michael Paine. [FBI 105-126129-61 NR 199 12.17.63] EDWARD AND ABIGAIL SCHAFFNER On March 13, 1964, Edward and Abigail Schaffner were interviewed by the FBI in Miami, Florida. They said they were 'employed from 1930 to about 1942, and then again immediately after World War II until about 1948, at the Forbes Estate, Naushon Island, Woods Hole, Massachusetts. During these periods, Edward Schaffner was employed in a caretaker capacity, and also assisted in the operation of a ferry boat owned by this estate which traveled from the island to Woods Hole. Abigail Schaffner was employed part-time in a domestic capacity. Her father, William Allen, was superintendent of the caretakers at this estate. During the above periods the Schaffners knew Michael Paine as a small child, and later as a teenager, when he visited the estate during the summer school vacations." [FBI 105-1717-181] The letter to Dulles: "It has been reported in the press that a Mrs. Michael Paine had given shelter to Mrs. Oswald and her children -- and that Michael Paine, who is separated from his wife, liked to talk politics and philosophy with OSWALD. All I know -- second hand -- about Mrs. Paine is that she is a Quaker and had 'studied Russian.' However I know about Michael Paine's background and knew him until he was seven years old. He is now approximately 35. His mother is Mrs. Arthur Young of 1810 Delancy Place, Philadelphia. Mrs. Young was born Ruth Forbes. Her mother was a Cabot and her father was Ralph Waldo Forbes, a direct descendant of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Ruth Forbes was also a cousin or niece of Cameron Forbes, one time Governor of the Philippines and U.S. Ambassador to Japan. Ruth Forbes had been married three times, Arthur Young being her first husband. He is an inventor (having 'invented' the helicopter.') I put this in parenthesis because, I believe, he invented improvements to the helicopter rather than he machine itself -- but am not sure. In any case, he is wealthy -- as is his wife -- and in recent years he had devoted himself entirely to researches in what is know under the general heading of ESP (Extra-Sensory Perception). (He believes that there is another 'force' in the universe -- like electricity or similar -- that has not yet been tapped). His researches have been extremely complicated an esoteric and he has worked with the Institute for Advanced Studies at Princeton -- consulted with them -- and also with Bell Laboratories. Ruth Young's first husband -- and Michael Paine's father -- was Lyman Paine who father, Reverend George Lyman Paine -- descendant of a signer of the Declaration of Independence -- was a famous Boston crackpot. He was involved in a lawsuit around the time of World War I, after a Naval officer stormed into his office and slapped or hit him for flirting with the Naval officer's wife. The Reverend Paine on the witness stand defended himself by saying that his relations with the Naval officer's wife had been entirely harmless. He had simply driven her out to the meadows around Boston and 'tickled her under the chin with a piece of 'Timothy Grass.' From then on the Reverend Paine was known as 'Timothy Grass' Paine. I understand he is still alive and in his late 80's -- if not older. He is, of course, Michael Paine's grandfather. "Lyman Paine, Michael's father -- and Ruth Young's first husband -- was an architect -- but around 1930 -- 34 after divorcing Ruth, he became a 'Trotskyite' and married a girl active in Trotskyite circles. However, typical of the sort of New England crackpot tradition, they were not real Trotskyites, but belonged to some infinitesimal splinter group that as far as I know did nothing but sit around and talk, talk about how the other Trotskyists were 'betraying the Revolution' as conceived by Trotsky. I have not heard for many years anything about Lyman Paine. I believe he and his wife lived -- in the 30's -- in California...Mrs. Young is very much upset about recent happenings and my friend who is her cousin -- although I also know Mrs. Young very well -- 'imagines' that the fact that Lyman Paine was such a talky, talky 'Trotskyite' will lend to Michael's association with OSWALD an implication that in reality it may not have. In other words, Michael's talk may well have been -- although not necessarily was -- simply an offshoot of what he knew to be his father's interests. My own evaluation of Lyman Paine, whom I also knew well in the 1920's, is that he could not do anything, that he was thoroughly incompetent. However, he sure could talk. And I think that it should be pointed out that granted the social position and standing of someone like Michael Paine -- plus someone of his obvious advantages -- for advantages he did have -- and education -- that for a character like OSWALD to tune in on what all this must have meant to him could actually be a 'trigger." I have also heard, but not from his mother, that Michael had homosexual tendencies -- although he did marry and have children." SPLINTER GROUP POLITICS George Lyman Paine moved to the West Coast where he became part of the Forest-Johnson Faction, a Trot splinter group. The Johnson-Forest faction was a group of former Socialist Worker's Party members who broke away from the Socialist Worker's Party in 1951 over the question of whether Yugoslavia should be considered a 'worker' state. George Lyman Paine Jr. and his wife were described as the brains behind the Forest-Johnson Group in the Los Angeles area. The Forest-Johnson then broke into the Forest Faction and Johnson Faction. In 1964 the Johnson faction had six members. ANALYSIS Lyman Paine was a factionalist - he was more interested in debating the fine points of Socialism then in defeating the capitalists. He was an armchair revolutionary. OSWALD wrote that he hated the "factional mutants...odd ball Hegelian idealists out of touch with reality." MICHAEL PAINE Abigail Schaffner wrote, "Michael Paine from the minute he was born was a strange child. He yelled all the time, was afraid of everything, very destructive and generally weird. His mother, a very placid person, was in despair coping with him, as he would become excited at just about anything." The FBI reported a file from the Military Personnel Records Center in Saint Louis, Missouri, concerning Michael Paine, "contains the following statement: (deleted)." Ruth explained: "When he was sworn into the Army during the Korean war he indicated that he refused to follow orders he felt were immoral." The CIA checked its "security and foreign indices" and reported "no reference identifiable with Subject." [FBI 105-126129-44] BELL HELICOPTER The stepfather of Michael Paine was Arthur Young, an inventor who helped perfect the helicopter. Arthur Young helped found Bell Helicopter. Michael Paine was a research engineer at Bell Helicopter with a high security clearance. [WCD 208, 213] WALTER R. DORNBERGER Walter R. Dornberger, a senior vice president of Bell Helicopter, was a former Nazi general who supervised the construction of the first guided missile, developed by Werner von Braun. He was an ardent supporter of Adolf Hitler and used slave labor to build his missiles. After the perfection of the V-2 rocket in 1942, Dornberger directed the bombardment of London with V-2's late in the war. From 1945 to 1947 he was held as a prisoner-of-war in Great Britain. He was brought to the United States in 1950. FBI files indicated "that this individual is a German scientist brought to the United States under the custody and control of the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency." In 1957 it was alleged that Dornberger was still a Nazi: Airtel TO: Director, FBI FROM: SAC, Los Angeles (105-5122) December 3, 1957 RE: Werner Von Braun and Walter Dornberger. Regarding Los Angeles letter to the Bureau, October 11, 1951, captioned (Deleted) INFORMATION CONCERNING; Albany letter to the Bureau November 9, 1951, titled "Guy Boisino del Vall, Misc;" two Washington Field airtels to the Bureau and Los Angeles, July 30, 1954; Washington Field airtel to the Bureau and Los Angeles, August 1, 1954; Los Angeles airtel to the Bureau August 6, 1954, setting out background information concerning (Deleted) and Los Angeles airtels to the Bureau, August 13, 1954, and August 23, 1954, all captioned "(Deleted) Misc. Info Concerning," Referenced communications deal largely with de Valle efforts to interest the Department of the Navy and Air Force in (Deleted) and his efforts to have the FBI assist him in this regard. Enclosed herewith is a blank memorandum with five copies to the Bureau concerning the captioned individuals. On December 2, 1957, (Deleted) advised ASAC Ralph W. Machman (Deleted) had been in (Deleted) office on December 2, 1957, and claimed to have information that Von Braun is still a Nazi. On December 3, 1957, (Deleted) interviewed by SA's (Deleted) and (Deleted) and furnished information which is set up in enclosed blank memorandum. (Deleted) advised that his primary purpose in contacting (Deleted) was to attempt to have either (Deleted) of the FBI arrange and introduction of (Deleted). He said if (Deleted) believed that this (Deleted) that it would tend to prove the activities of Von Braun and Dornberger have not been in the best interests of the United States. (Deleted) was advised that the Bureau could not arrange such an introduction. (Deleted) One copy of each blank memorandum is being furnished for San Francisco (Deleted) California, Birmingham (Werner Von Braun, Huntsville, Alabama) and Albany (Walter Dornberger, Ithaca, New York). Another FBI document stated: "FBI files and other agency files of the FBI do not contain any derogatory information concerning Dornberger. Files of the Cincinnati Office revealed that (Deleted) the subject of Bufile entitled (Deleted). A review of this file reflected that (Deleted) was very pro-Nazi and might be a security threat to the United States. Investigation revealed that (Deleted) may have made statements which were considered pro-German, but many of these statements (Deleted) later denied, others, he insisted, were misinterpreted. A large number of neighbors, friends and acquaintances testified to (Deleted)'s loyalty to the United States. There was no evidence of organizational activity. The facts of this case were presented to the United States Attorney on November 13, 1943, who informed that in view of existing court decisions and policies of the Department, this was not a strong enough case to institute denaturalization proceedings against (Deleted). Confidential Informant T-1, another Government agency which conducts security type investigations, advised that their files contained no record of derogatory information regarding Dornberger and no record of any security violations. In 1958 Dornberger was considered for a non-sensitive position with the United States Government. The FBI reported: "No investigation of this individual is being conducted by the FBI in the absence of a specific request. This is not to be considered as a clearance or disapproval of this individual by the FBI for Federal employment." Dornberger died in July 1980. [FBI 140-0-497321; Newsweek 7.14.80] Bell Helicopter supplied many CIA-sponsored dictators, such as the Shah of Iran, with materiel. The Textron Corporation, which eventually purchased Bell Helicopter, was investigated for having paid millions of dollars in kickbacks to an Iranian sales agency. Bell Helicopter was a member of the Aircraft Manufacturers Association, like Lockheed, Martin-Marietta and the General Dynamics Corporation. This Association was represented by Albert Jenner when it was a defendant in a Federal antitrust lawsuit. [72-Civ-1307-USDC-NY] Albert Jenner went over Ruth Paine's account of OSWALD with her on the morning that she testified. [WC Paine Testimony p455] He personally knew the Paine family and generated this memo: "After reading the attached article, it occurred to me that may be Michael Paine's father, Lyman Paine, whom I knew well thirty years ago but have not seen since, possibly did play a role somehow. As I told you before, Lyman Paine was -- and I believe still is -- a Trotskyite, but based on my knowledge of his ineffective personality and to the fact that I have been told that he belonged to a small splinter group of the Trotskyites. -- I imagine that all he ever did was talk. However, granted that Trotsky lived in Mexico -- maybe Michael knew of connections and maybe names of various individuals was all OSWALD needed. I don't know if Trotskyites are pro-Castro - but I suppose they could be anything. I have reflected on whether it would make any sense to talk to Lyman Paine -- for I imagine I could locate him -- but I am inclined to think he wouldn't talk -- that he would resent any authority -- for that was always his trouble. However, I think if anyone wanted to talk to him -- it would be wisest -- and most productive -- to talk first to Michael Paine's mother, Mrs. Arthur Young, whom I am sure would be cooperative -- and who could probably tell as much about Lyman Paine as he would tell himself." [UnID Warren Commission document by Jenner to file] Ruth Paine claimed her husband only worked for Bell Helicopter for six or seven years: "He got the job because of his stepfather. Michael is not somebody who likes the military-industrial complex." Michael Paine was questioned about his association with Bell Helicopter: "The company was not like that. Personally, I went out there quite independent of that. My stepfather invented the Bell Helicopter. Larry Bell from Bell Aircraft in Buffalo saw it and bought the idea. They got a license around the same time Sikorsky did in 1941. Then I came along - my mother married Arthur in 1946. Arthur engaged me to make models and another friend of his, a Vice President of Bell Helicopter and I were invited to go to Dallas. I stayed for ten years. Union regulations made it very difficult for an engineer to handle a tool. I worked on the 'convertaplane' that eventually became the Osprey. Bell Helicopter was largely a commercial company and it wasn't until the Vietnam war - maybe they used helicopters in Korea - but it was during the Vietnam War that Bell Helicopter made 40% of the aircraft that were used. So it was a vital part of the Vietnam War. I was president of the Committee for Peaceful Solutions in Vietnam. Bell allowed me to show a movie by a CBS correspondent which looked favorably on Ho Chi Minh. Another high officer there named Bob Licten, the promotor of the XB-3, was President of the Dallas American Civil Liberties Union. He died in an automobile accident. Bell was more liberal than many other companies that made the major part of it's income from military sales." THE JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, S.A. Hosty questioned Mrs. Werner R. Grimes about Michael Paine. She informed S.A. Hosty that "on two or three occasions in the Fall of 1963, Michael Paine requested that he be permitted to attend a meeting of the John Birch Society of which Mrs. Grimes stated she was an active member. Mrs. Werner R. Grimes stated she invited Michael Paine to attend one John Birch Society meeting at her residence and later, when this meeting was canceled, she was unable to get in touch with Michael Paine to advise him of this cancellation. Michael Paine appeared at her residence for this meeting, which was not held. Mrs. Grimes stated she then tried on another occasion to get in touch with Michael Paine and advise him of another meeting but she was unable to get in touch with Michael Paine." [FBI DL 105-1776 3.15.64 Hosty] Mr. Werner R. Grimes was interviewed by telephone in April 1993: "No, I was not Michael Paine's friend, I barely knew him. This was a number of years ago, and I was interviewed by the FBI at the time because I mentioned to a friend of mine in the Unitarian Church choir that I had met somebody who knew [OSWALD]. My job at Bell Helicopter was field engineer in high-pressure hydraulics. I met Paine in that lab. I don't know if this was the initial meeting, or if I first met him at the church choir." Werner Grimes was a Unitarian because he and his wife came from differing Protestant backgrounds. Mrs. Grimes died about 1983. According to Werner R. Grimes: "Mrs. Grimes was not an active member of the John Birch Society, although she attended several meetings. I was at that John Birch Society meeting held in my house, I also was at one other meeting. Otherwise, I had nothing to do with it." Ruth Paine was asked if her husband joined the Birchers for counter-intelligence purposes? She laughed and said, "You live in an entirely different world than me. He was curious about their beliefs and wanted to see what a meeting would be like. He figured he'd go and make his own judgments. To him, it was a way of gathering information. Michael's a freethinker. He doesn't always do what is politically correct." Michael Paine explained, "I was a member of the Unitarian Church and was quite proud of the fact there was a member of the John Birch Society in our church, that it could span that much political spectrum. I didn't realize he had any connection to Bell Helicopter. I was distressed because there was no conversation between the liberals and the right-wing. We both said we cherished freedom of speech, but in practice, my actions and the right-wing were very far apart. So I was going to various right-wing seminars and groups trying to discover for myself why they didn't like the liberal point of view. So I was trying to find a bridge, language, ideas, that would get back to the root where we agreed and disagreed. I recall talking with LEE. He was likewise going around to - by the way I did go to a private home of a right-wing group - I don't recall the name. The only thing I can remember about it, nobody ever asked me what my point of view was. I wouldn't have lied about it, I can't lie. But I was glad I didn't have to tell them. I didn't view myself as spying on them. I was trying to understand what was the real bug under the skin that made these people feel that way. I wanted to be able to write something about how we both cared about freedom of speech, yet they didn't want to give Communists freedom of speech. And I remember taking LEE OSWALD to an American Civil Liberties Union meeting. I asked him, in my car, if he would like to join the American Civil Liberties Union. He said, 'No,' he did not want to give freedom of speech to the right-wing, Nazis. We had mentioned specifically Walker at this supper where I had mentioned that I was going around sort of observing right-wing groups, and he was doing it also. I didn't want to pursue it further, because I wanted to have a pleasant evening with him. I didn't find out explicitly, but I assumed he was doing it because he was of the view that America was controlled by a capitalist cabal, who manipulated the country to its interests. He thought the church, for instance, was just 'an opiate of the people.' He thought it was manipulated and controlled and put in place by capitalists who were trying to keep the people happy. And he wouldn't tell me much about them. I think David Rockefeller was the only name he ever gave. I surmised that when he was listening in on some of these right-wing groups, that he thought he was listening to the people who were behind the actions of this country. I saw them as a fringe groups." An airtel from the FBI Legal Attache in London dated February 5, 1964, regarding Michael Paine was almost totally deleted. [FBI 105-126129-44] END OF NODULE. DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! 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