CS: Pol-The march in March
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is anyone aware of any coaches going to the march from the Merseyside area? Brian T -- Phone them on their "hotline". I think that's one of the reasons for it! www.march-info.org Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Fishing next
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Radio 4 just before 7 this morning had a feature on cruelty to fish from hooks and the problems of line etc tangling with birds and oyther wildlife. Even better on Radio 5 PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals), which I assume is a British off shoot of the American organisation, had some wally on. Pain and distress caused to fish etc. The hooks and lines, were merely a secondary point. Apparently they are about to release a poster with a dog dangling at the end of a fishing line which is why they'd got some air time. Did anyone seriously think that all the LACS and Hunt Saboteurs etc would retire and take up gardening if hunting with hounds was banned. Taken to it's only slightly illogical extreme they would have use all walking naked brushing the ground before us lest we squash some unsuspecting bug in the manner of certain Indian holy men. Brian T -- LACS has always been against shooting for as long as I can remember. Like I said before they ran a big ad campaign in 1988 to get shooting banned altogether. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Cats the worst killers
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Incorrect. It is because a dog is *property* whereas a cat is not. What? - So who does my cat belong to then? Wrong way round. You own a dog but feed a cat. If your lucky it deigns to live in your house. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The March : Slogans
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually I was going to suggest: "Gold if we win, imprisonment if we practice." as jail sounds too cosy. Jail usually refers to a local prison or the police lockup, certainly in the US you get sent to jail for a midemeanour. If you get caught with a prohibited weapon you'll go to prison, not jail. Steve. -- Ten Years Hard Training to Win a Gold. Ten Years Hard Labour for Training to Win a Gold. "We have today taken the guns off the streets" Labour Party, 27th February 1998. 100,000,000 of YOUR money for what? Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-Liverpool-armed Crime
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Front page lead in the Liverpool Echo tonight. GUN LAW. Armed Police Aim To Halt City Shootings Armed police road checks are being set up on the streets of Liverpool. The crackdown aims to halt the recent spate of city centre shootings. Patrols are also being stepped up as police take a stand against the growing number of weapons. Other tactics are being discussed in a bid to stop guns getting into the city. The move is in resonse to public fears following recent shootings. Five incidents in two weeks have left one city nightclubber dead and 10 others injured, including two bouncers. More patrols are being deployed towards next weekend. Officers may be authorised to stop some vehicles at gunpoint. If they meet strict rules regarding suspicion of crime. Assistant chief constable Bernard Hogan-Howe said: "There will be a significant increase in armed patrols towards the weekend. High visibility policing, especially in the city centre, will also be stepped up and our CCTV vans will be operating." "Area commanders will be asked to give an analysis of what options are available to us and some tactics may be made public later in the week." " We ae sure that we can stop some of the people whom we know can get involved in this type of incident from getting into the city." "We do already have armed patrols covering all areas of Merseyside 24 hours a day, but we do routinely arm officers on the streets unless the risk is high." Police have stressed that year on year there is no significant rise in gun crime on Merseyside. In fact, the region is the second safest urban area in the country, according to the most recent crime figures. An ECHO survey today reveals the public wants a tougher stance by the police. "I'm surprised at the unanimity of the public response to the ECHO survey." added Mr Hogan-Howe. "We will now carry out our own survey through our focus groups, and listen to what they have to say about this issue. and a follow up on the inside page. Gun Traders Target Kids Guns are being smuggled from eastern europe into the hands of Merseyside youngsters, police confirmed today. The influx of weapons may be responsible for the spate of five shootings in two weeks, leaving one person dead and ten injured. A tip off from the crime underworld alerted police to the problem several months ago. Since then operations to sieze guns from the hands of youngsters have been under way. Three guns were recovered during a raid in Liverpool last Friday. There are fears that the availability of weapons will make shootings more commonplace. Today an underworld crime source said: "Guns are getting into young and very dangerous hands. Bits of kids in their late teens are settling some petty scores by resorting to guns.When people are getting shot over next-to-nothing and a young lad is lying dead, it sickens even hardened people who are used to dealing with guns" The latest victim is Francis Burke 18 from Kirkdale, who was killed by a gunman outside the Pulse club in Skelhorne Street, Liverpool, after a saturday night out with friends. Police have not established a motive. Four other shootings include two outside city centre nightclubs. Assistant chief constable Bernard Hogan-Howe said: "We had intelligence a few months ago that guns were coming into Merseyside and falling into the hands of young people. We have begun operations to intervene, only last Friday we recovered three guns. Ther is also a long-term activity happening to tackle the problem. The firearms market is a mobile one and guns may be coming into our are from outside" Merseyside police are pioneering a computer technique to trail the movements of guns across the UK and Europe. If anyone wishes to point out any salient points to them [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-DNA Testing
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The presenters of a radio prog were asking people to give reasons why DNA samples should not be held as "they couldn't think of any". First submission was from a serving police officer who gave an example of what he said were many more instances already happening. A man was picked up, taken to the station and held in the cells for four hours merely because his DNA was on a cigarette stub found in the rear of a vehicle. I seem to recall a thread a couple of months back that the amount of police officers giving DNA samples "to exclude them from investigations" was less than impressive. Hows that one going? Also any samples taken in one of the mass screenings to try and catch serious serial offenders are now to be kept. Hands up those who will now be joining the queue for any of these. If this goes through I don't think I'm going to see that many more birthdays before a sample is required as part of an FAC or SGC application/renewal. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Hunting ban
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] For the first time I've actually seen the intended penalties for hunting when any ban comes into force. A maximum of a L5,000 fine. Having noted that its a maximum and that probably a lesser amount may be levied I wonder how many people the average hunt attracts and how much the participants and followers would be prepared to stump up as a fee. Much as those who flouted the old Sunday trading laws used to do in London years ago. The fine was just a running expense along with rent, rates etc. I can't see the police having the manpower to attend and prosecute every hunt if they all continued so any cost would be reduced even further. One other interesting point was made on a phone in today. Assume that the ban is now in force and the hunt continues as a drag hunt. What then happens if the hounds catch the scent of a fox and follow that. As there was no intent has a crime been committed? Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-video
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now if we could all attend the march and stop for just a few seconds, banners to the fore and best Sunday smiles, in front of one of the CCTV's. Then having paid the nice people at the Met a tenner for the tape we could take a still off for our election poster and give them a credit. I'm sure they'd be most grateful. Brian T -- Actually the thought occurs we could pay them for making a video that we could use ourselves for promos and so on. Or is that taking the p---? Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-the It can be done dept.
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Angus Hobdell recently won the Grand Master class of the American Handgunner World Shootoff 2000, but lost overall to Everette Brunelle who used a stock STI (if there is such a thing), i.e. no compensator or optics. (Oh, and he shot from the Isoceles stance too ;-b) Completely lost touch with this now, is Angus living in the States or somewhere closer. He can't possibly reach that standard living in this country. Brian T -- He told me he was living in Arizona, or trying to at any rate. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-5000 Christmas cards for Tony Martin
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The cards flooded in after our Man of the People columnist David Mellor called on the nation to show he had not been forgotten. Please tell me this is not THE Mellor. I know most politicians will need screwing into their graves but given the amount of bile that cretin spewed in our direction I don't think my poor seasonally addled brain could stand it. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Sport minister criticises handgun ban
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually I've got a better idea that will really rub their noses in it, why not nominate her for a knighthood or an MBE or something? Does anyone know how to do this? Steve. http://www.cabinet-office.gov.uk/ceremonial/ Brian T -- Okay, print off the form and fill it in and send it in!! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-Radio prog
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] If anyone fancies a listen Radio 5 on Sunday at 12.30pm is doing a half an hour on Contract killing and its suppposed increase. I'll refrain from comment till I've heard it. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Knives
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh dear, now you've asked for it. The law is that you can't carry anything other than an ordinary pocket knife with a blade length of maximum 3 inches without lawful authority or reasonable excuse. An ordinary pocket knife has been wittled down over the years to basically a penknife, not a lock knife. What constitutes lawful authority or reasonable excuse is a very long discussion. Steve. There always has to be somebody prepared to put their hand up and ask the daft question. Could you tell me the difference between a penkinife and a lock knife as surely any blade that dosen't lock out is pretty bloody unsafe. Brian T -- A lock knife has a blade that locks in an open position, whereas a pen knife has a blade that folds under pressure. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-recommended reading
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Try, "more Guns less crime" by John Lott. I've got a copy you can borrow if you want. Jonathan Laws -- The problem with that book is that you need a degree in statistical analysis to understand it. The Armed Citizen book contains summaries of several hundred (probably thousands) of newspaper articles going back decades of people who defended themselves with guns. More anecdotal perhaps but much more interesting to read. Steve. I'd recommend trying "The Samurai, The Mountie and the Cowboy" by David Kopel (If I've got them in the wrong order I beg his pardon). Covers firearms law in a large range of countries. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-.458
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I remember reading a while ago about one of the American Gun writers (big bloke who's name escapes me but shoots lots of big guns) who shot something like 1000 rounds of full charge .44 mag in a day of shooting, the next day he found his shooting hand was virtually immoveable and he couldn't write properly for a week. Fairly sure I remember reading an article by Phil Spangenburger in which he stated that he now limits himself to just a few rounds through anything heavy. He's the guy who's always decked out in western gear in G A. A few years since I read it as I haven't had the heart to buy any pistol mags since the ban. Brian T -- Is it physically possible to shoot 1,000 rounds of .44 Magnum in a single day? Even with a shooting glove, 100 rounds is more than enough for me. Without a glove I'm lucky to make it through a box! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Emperor's New Clothes
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] So you don't feel threatened? Well sod your luck sunshine becaue I bloody well do. S carrying a firearm would make you feel safe? What are you going to do with it? Execute the next kid that tries to steal something out your van? How about trying this tacticput two people in the van. One stays in it whilst the other makes the delivery. The cost is passed on to the customer. So sod your wannabe rambo attitude too matey. IG "There's none so blind as those that do not wish to see" or in this case read. See my previous posting which specifically referred to non lethal options. I have at no time expressed a desire to carry a firearm, though if the option were legally available I may consider it. You've stated in a previous posting that you wouldn't tell someone how to do their job and then proceed to tell me how to do mine. I cannot "pass the cost on to the customer" as the prices are set by the company that I work through and commisions are already low enough that I work with a smaller vehicle than is warranted. My point, which you choose to ignore, is that the fact that some big burly rozzer with years of experience feels unthreatened in these areas has precisely bugger all to do with how the average working stiff feels. I see nothing in any of my contributions that would classify me as a wannabe anything other than going about my business in safety without needing eyes in my backside. I certainly have no desire to be a Rambo, I've got a bloody site better grasp of the English language and considerably more charm. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Emperor's New Clothes
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I actually frequently go into inner city areas in the course of my work. I am not armed, not even with a baton or CS. I don't feel threatened or intimidated, nor do I feel that I am naked without a firearm to protect myself. Nor do most of the people who live there. IG I let a similar comment go last time but not twice. I have no idea of your physical build but being a copper you have presumably been trained to some level of unarmed combat and in restraint techniques. I believe you've also been in the job for some time so I presume you've also been in any number of confrontational situations. I'm over half way through my allotted span and the last fight I had was in the playground. I work in a large inner city area distributing books and gifts which is to say I'm driving round a van full of reasonably easily carried readily re-saleable swag. I either drive past calls, move areas or cut short my work at least twice a week due to some scumbag or other eyeing up the van or me. Within the last three months I've dragged one out of my van by the throat and got away before we both got over the shock (the call to 999 telling them where he was and what he looked like and that he didn't seem to be fleeing the scene merely bought the assurance that "they'd keep their eye open for him"). I've also came out of a doorway seconds before two more were about to have a go at either the drivers door or the passenger side with my nine year old daughter sitting inside. The passenger side lock no longer works as about three weeks ago I came out of a call to find the door open and my coat and a knackered old BW laptop I use for my records missing. So you don't feel threatened? Well sod your luck sunshine becaue I bloody well do. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-Recommended reading
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've mentioned this before, but a really good book is "Marine Sniper" by Charles Henderson, and it's still in print and you can still get it easily! Steve. Definitely agree as I bought it last time you recommended it and couldn't put it down. Purchased at the same time "One Shot-One Kill" by Charles W Sasser and Craig Roberts which covers American snipers in WW2, Korea, Vietnam and Beirut. Well worth a read. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Stop or I'll chant!
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] What weapon do you think would have been effective in this case? A firearm? A baseball bat? CS or pepper spray? A cattle prod? A plastic shield such as the police use? A clothes prop? A rottweiler? Our right to self defence has not descended anywhere. I repeat...ad nauseumyou all have a right to self defence!!! It just so happens that firearms are not available for self defence. If a firearm had been used in this case, then, provided it was legally held for say, clay shooting, then no jury in a million years would convict someone using it. Don't delude yourself. The law only restricts self defence as being a good reason for possession. Since you ask I would like the opportunity to carry either a CS spray or stun gun and could detail at least two occasions within the last three months when I would have been justified in using them if it were a legal option. There is however no legally acceptable reason for owning either of these so the explanation you offer in your last paragraph would not apply. We appear to be left in the situation where you can claim to have used either a firearm or knife that had been held for entirely legal reasons, but would quite likely prove fatal, whilst being unable to claim any reason to own something that would just bring any assailant up short and allow you to escape. I don't see the objection to CS spray as we have it from the mouths of police spokespeople that these are used purely for defence. With regard to all the previous discussion on the list of the if's, but's and maybe's of aquiring a pistol legally for self defence is there any legal avenue for applying for ownership of either of these options because I can't think of one. Brian T -- Bear in mind that CS spray and stun guns are classified as firearms under Section 5(1)(b) of the Firearms Act 1968! How the courts ever came up with that is beyond me. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A http://www.topica.com/t/17 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Field-how to deal with roadkill
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] If people want to ponce about saving squirrels, that's up to them, just don't waste my tax money doing it! Steve. Except in the nickname given to these people in the States I have yet to hear anyone blame the person who probably more than any other is responsible for this attitude, Walt Disney. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-killers jailed
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] When the offences were committed at the same time the sentences usually run concurrently. Steve. Maybe so but the Sutcliffes and Shipmans of this country are still serving concurrent sentences for multiple murders committed over a period of time. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-killers jailed
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mr Justice Jackson jailed him for 12 years on each offence, to be served concurrently. Has anyone in this country ever had sentences on more than one offence run consecutively? If not why not. Brian T -- When the offences were committed at the same time the sentences usually run concurrently. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Arming the police
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] There was a phone in show on radio 5 last night about arming the police in the light of recent news of the arming of foot patrols in Nottingham. An MP from either side, Chris Akabussi (for reasons I haven't worked out yet) and another woman whose name I missed. Unremarkable for the most part, usual biased drivel from all sides but lightened by one call from a PC who was currently serving in an armed response unit. Did he think that the police should be routinely armed? "No way, I wouldn't trust most of them with a peashooter" Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Brazilian ban overturned
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] This one is priceless, just lifted from BBC North West Teletext GUN SALE BAN NOT WORKING, ADMITS BRAZIL Brazil's supreme court has overturned a nationwide ban on gun sales imposed earlier this year by the government. The measure was introduced in June as part of a major initiative to stem rising crime rates. But the country's Chief Justice, Carlos Velloso, said the decree had not had any effect as criminals did not buy their weapons in gun shops. It is estimated that one person in Brazil is killed every 13 minutes Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Crime-Soccer players escape gunmen
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] This happened about a mile from me and has obviously made the nationals due to the presence of the Liverpool players. Somebody being shot in the leg just round the corner about a week before went largely unremarked. Last weeks copy of the Merseymart (a local freesheet ) carried an unrelated report of four men being arrested and bailed for shooting someone else in the legs. This warranted about three column inches on page five and was pushed of the front page by the momentous news that the headmaster of a local school had resigned, he hadn't done anything he was just moving on. Also unreported, as it's hardly news, is the fact that I regularly hear the odd round go off late at night as the local toe rags test their latest aquisitions in a local park or the woods not to far away. BTW this is all within a mile or so of the university halls of residence. What was that about safe zones? I'm thinking of going to Israel for a nice quite break. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Certificate renewals
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The RFD in question is not going to do this for charity and although the charge will be relatively small I wonder what the reaction would be to numerous invoices appearing in the police accounts department from disgruntled shooters. Brian T -- Two words, the second one being "off"! Steve. Maybe so but I don't see that as any reason not to do it along with a covering letter to your MP and a follow up on getting the reply (particularly if the first word is connected to attempted reproduction). Brian T -- I know of cases where people have tried it, I think at least one of them is subscribed. Getting money out of the police is very hard because you have to demonstrate in most cases that they did not act in good faith. They not only have to have done something wrong, you have to show they were demonstrably wrong and were negligent. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Certificate renewals
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Even if you do its safest to follow advice and ask for a Section 7 permit or lodge the guns and ammunition with an RFD. The RFD in question is not going to do this for charity and although the charge will be relatively small I wonder what the reaction would be to numerous invoices appearing in the police accounts department from disgruntled shooters. Brian T -- Two words, the second one being "off"! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Conservatives
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] So Albie Fox is to be a Conservative candidate. I haven't managed to find a record of his contribution to the party conference on either the Conservatives website or SAGBNI. I wont fault him for getting knee deep in politics for any party as it's probably one of the the best ways to effect any change but read the following quote from Michael Portillo's speech to the conference. "The Conservative Party isn't merely a party of tolerance: it's a party willing to accord every one of our citizens respect. Why should people respect us if we withhold respect from them?" As a shooter, do you feel respected? I bloody well don't. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Shooting on the radio
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Heard this afternoon on Radio 5 a positive piece on shooting (recovers from faint and carries on). They did a feature on two minority sports that did well in the Olympics, Shooting and Canoeing. " Are minority sports going to increase in popularity". A reporter was sent to a shooting school in Shropshire, didn't catch the name but it seemed to be a big one so should be obvious to those into claybusting. He went through a days introductory course and all was reported very favourably, strong emphasis on the safety training and he seemed to enjoy himself. The only thing I would argue with was the cost breakdown if someone took the sport up as presumably the shooting school is a commercial enterprise and by joining a club you wouldn't necessarily be paying tuition fees. If its anything like small bore used to be the club coaches are only to pleased to have new members to work with. Also I'm not sure their statement that a shotgun will cost you between five hundred to a thousand is correct. I know you can spend the GDP of a third world country on a shotgun but I thought a reasonable example to start with could be had for a bit less than that. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-lottery funding
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do you have a national lottery in Australia? I am certain 90% of the improvement in our Olympic performance is due to the lottery funding of new facilities and the teams. Steve. Could someone just give chapter and verse on what lottery funding has been used for shooting sports. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Radio Four
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whilst I have no opinion on this particular interview as I didn't hear it I do agree with the general point. The standard of reporting on all but the high profile sports in this Olympics has been awful. Intelligent and informed commentating and interviewing has been plentiful in track and field events also the swimming events have faired well. How surprising is this though when we have the likes of Sally Gunnel, Roger Black and Sharon Davies all carving themselves a niche in Sports TV. Although it's too much to hope for that every event will have a media trained ex competitor presenting the whole show I don't see why some of our licence fee can't be splashed out on having at least one person capable of explaining the intricacies of any sport liable to be shown wether we win a medal or not. How difficult (or expensive ) can it be to have the likes of a Michael Yardley on call to comment from a studio back here. Some of the old timers seem to get it right, David Vine seems to manage well enough with the weightlifting. Probably the heaviest thing he's lifted is his wallet but he's enough of a professional to inform himself and pass the knowledge on without talking down. They wouldn't dare televise a nag race with " The brown one with the jockey in blue and red seems to be winning" so why should the lower profile sports have to suffer. It does seem to be a trend though. Just about every broadcaster seems all to ready to brag about their ignorance of anything to do with computers whilst using them every working day. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Steel Plate Shooting
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The steel plate shoot seems to have been organised thru a club member - John Reddington - who I know is very keen on this kind of competition, as his name appears fairly .high up in the results on other like comps. I think he must be pd off and embarassed by the whole thing. John and I used to be in the same club based at Stone Lodge ranges in Dartford. I never new anyone who took to practical shooting with such enthusiasm. He was one of those hardy souls who trekked up and down the country trying to shoot a UKPSA comp almost every weekend. If I remember correctly his wife Bridget was also in the GB ladies practical team for a while. I think pd may be understating it somewhat. Shooters with his degree of involvment is something we need more of. Brian T -- I think practical should be renamed to "shooting with a hint of realism" or "innovative shooting" or something like that! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-BBC TV Coverage of Shooting Sports at the Olympics
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] If anyone is seriously going to suggest that shooting, any kind of shooting, on TV is less interesting than watching two "sportsmen" chucking darts at a board or the almost blanket coverage of Curling in the last winter Olympics then put me up as a training target for running boar (no jokes about bore please). An air rifle event was covered very well by Eurosport earlier this year with small lasers attached to the weapons giving a trace of the hold pattern which changed colour at the moment of release. Also given the incredibly small size that cameras are down to now it's only going to take a bit of effort on someones part to improve coverage markedly. I'd suggest that the Beeb would be the best one's to hassle as they are loosing the larger profile sports at a rate of knots. Brian T -- I don't think they are worth bothering with because they are so anti-gun it is pointless. They have now taken to giving anti-gun titles to every news story on their website possible, even when it is unrelated to guns per se. Better to vote with your feet and get Sky Digital and write a letter to your MP asking for TV licensing to be scrapped IMO. Commercial enterprises have to listen, the BBC doesn't. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-More Dumpy Pumpy
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] With regard to why we don't take similar action to the truckers and farmers. It will be interesting to see over the coming months how many FAC's and SGC's of those photographed on the picket lines are refused renewal or otherwise hassled. Brian T (Still grounded) Public service announcement: Radio 5's website www.bbc.co.uk/5live has a link from the front page giving a list of those service stations who are to be the first in the queue for deliveries. -- There's a list on the sky news website, www.sky.com/news as well, fortunately I have the RAS working great so I don't really need to go into work next week if all hell breaks out! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Dump the Pump
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] I suppose its OK as long as its just the country and not me or you. Lets see how jovial we all are when the weekly run to Tesco's can't be done or the local curry house can't deliver the madras just ordered or we can't get the kids to school or can't get to the club's autumn shoot at Bisley, Sealand or Altcar. Lets see how happy when we can't even get the kids to school or can't even get into work - all of this in our 4x4 9MPG off road 4 ton 'essential' vehicles of course. And lets not even think about the local refuse collectors not being able to collect the rubbish. It started costing me money by Monday midday. I then had no fuel in my van which meant, as a self-employed person, no work no money. I have been unable to fill up since, there is no petrol available in Liverpool and the local radio station has stopped giving out info on which stations have any as there are none. My essential van is a Sooty box, less than 1000cc and to small for the job but I can't afford to run a transit This also means that I have been walking the kids to and from school (three times a day as my son is on half days in reception class). Do I support the action? Yes I do and I don't need some fatuous smartarse sniping from the sidelines and putting me in some pigeon hole convienient to his arguement. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-rallies
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Someone made reference to the poll tax riots earlier. I quite agree, violent protest has, in the past, forced a change in laws. Does anyone think, seriously, that violent protest by firearms owners is going to get a law repealed? Worse still, does anyone think that a sustained campaign of terrorism is relevant to this issue? (As per the Gerry Adams connection). I don't. My point was not to suggest that we indulge in violent protest or shoot or blow up anyone who seriously annoys us. The point was. Protest works where "Please sir we don't like this law" fails. It dosen't have to be violent or even illegal just massively inconvenient to those in power and with as high a media proflie as possible. It also helps if it proves expensive to lower tiers of government as they then start rattling the treasury's door for more funds. I wouldn't think you'd be to upset by that Iggy. Remember the miners strike and think of all that overtime. The trick is to keep it on their desk with increasing numbers of people and organisations asking them what they are going to do about it. As stated the example of the IRA was an extreme example to make a point and if you misread it to assume that I was suggesting something similar then I'm going to start getting annoyed. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Beginners guide
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Radio5 every Saturday morning on Adrian Chiles program they have a beginners guide to a sport which, I kid you not, has included such high profile sports as Ferret racing. Finally this morning shooting got a look in or more specifically Olympic shooting. They listed the events under rifle, pistol and shotgun and noted who our team would consist of which is apparently five strong. One small bore rifle shooter, Phil Babb, and four in various shotgun disciplines. A brief chat with the guy doing double trap over a phone link just explaining what it was and in the studio the director, I think, of the NSRA. I beg his pardon if I've got it wrong but I think it was Ken Sharp. Nothing negative but no mention by anybody of why no pistol team. A couple of halting comments from both shooting representatives that we need to raise the profile of shooting and the shotgun competitor seemed to think that the media had been relatively kind to shooting sports of late. One supportive comment from the presenter that it's quite often the shooting team that gets the country out of trouble with a medal or two. If you wish to thank them for at least giving us an unbiased coverage it's [EMAIL PROTECTED] When I get time later I plan on a thanks with a brief explanation of why no pistol team. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Anonymity etc
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well I for one will be sorry to see Iggy go. I suppose as he keeps mentioning the length of time he's been a copper we should call him Iggy Pop. Wether I agree with his point of view or not it's enough of a rarity to have someone in the force prepared to stand up and not just argue but do so in words I can understand. Not that God awful monotone style that all senior officers seem to have learnt. On the initial point in his reply I have to say that comparing bent coppers with homicidal shooters is way off beam. Bent coppers with bent shooters or homicidal coppers with homicidal shooters and lets keep the arguement fair. If the debate has got somewhat overheated just consider the initial media coverage and government reaction in March 1996 (No Iggy I don't exclude you from the same feelings as the rest of us I just seek to remind everybody) We were condemned as worse than Paedophiles with the government preferring to find time to punish us in preference to them and had more libel and abuse flung at us than practically any other group of people, certainly since the war. From her recently reported comments Gill Marshal Andrews still considers that my children should be on the "at risk" register merely because of my interest in shooting and at the time she would have been one among many expressing similar opinions. That level of injustice has not and will not be forgotten or forgiven. I shall bare that particular grudge till they nail the lid down. So for the good of shooting stick around my friend and keep arguing. The day this list revolves around mutual ego stroking rather than hot debate is the day I unsubscribe. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-S.54 etc.
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh, and by the way, Dave, a little piece of education for you. The revenue from all your beloved speed cameras goes to the treasury. The Police don't get any of it! Strange but true. Just on this one specific point. On Radio 4 this afternoon, a solicitor who specialises in speeding offences was quizzed on this specific point and stated that he had strong anecdotal evidence from a close contact in the CPS that one force actually took six officers off of a murder enquiry because of lack of financial input from this source. I make no judgement on that point but merely report what BBC radio saw fit to broadcast. However in a world where we have just had the first privately funded policeman announced to the world I don't find it hard to believe that there is at least an unspoken link between input to government coffers and the level of funding to specific force areas. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Commonwealth Games
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your quite right that there will probably be little press coverage at Bisley for the Commonwealth Games. So lets make sure that along with the friendly TV idea we offer the the print media stills and copy from any pro shooting freelance photographers and reporters. If they don't plan on doing so already it would be nice if those running it offered a couple of computers ready hooked up to email shots directly to all the papers. They are far more likely to use something if its offered on a plate. Brian T -- We need proper PR, not just a few phone calls to the papers and TV. Needs to be a well-organised mailing of press releases and so on. Have the English/Welsh/Scottish teams even been chosen yet? I wonder what on Earth the selection criteria can be? "Have you shot ISSF?" "Have you got a gun still?" You're in! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Olympic shooters lobby for easing of handgun ban
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] A demonstration in Manchester based on dumping large numbers of vehicles to cause traffic chaos to make contestants in other sports late for their events--or miss them all together. That's the way to get publicity. Barry Woodward An idea similar to this cropped up in conversation at my club tonight. Two possible options. Firstly we regularly have computer fairs in this area which are advertised in part by a large flat backed lorry with a billboard erected on the back. I seem to remember custom made jobs for a similar purpose springing up in London before I moved north in 91 so doubtless most of you have seen them. They can't be that pricey if used for this purpose. So maybe SAGBNI or someone similar could afford a couple of these. Secondly and to my mind more of a working proposition. If think we can all agree that the prospect of getting similar numbers to the large demonstration in Hyde Park is pretty remote but what effect would a convoy of vans, lorry's and cars all postered up and driving the same circular route have? Purely by obeying the rules of the road you would cause some congestion but one hell of a high profile protest and only needing say a hundred plus participants (obviously the more the merrier). As you will be obeying any traffic laws and speed limits I'm not even sure that you would have to inform the local police or authorities. It could all be organised perfectly well over the net (maybe via the CS website?) Posters could be mailed out giving an idea of the take-up and an agreed route either published on whichever site took up the idea or emailed if you want to keep 'those who wish to be obeyed' guessing. Anyone else fancy a day sightseeing in Manchester? Brian T -- Manchester is fairly easy to get to, I would have thought we could get a few thousand people up there on foot for a rally without too many problems. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Anonymity
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] IG I agree with you totally but don't expect support from the majority of subscribers. They will take any chance to have a pop at the Bill. Stay with the professionals In the few short sentences above is encapsulated the entire 'us and them' arguement that this and other similar threads have revolved around. Until "the majority of subscribers" can view The Law as something that is available to them rather than done to them then The Law and all those who enact and enforce it will be regarded with suspicion. How we get to a state of mutual trust is going to be a long and painful journey but ultimately it will have to start with a government trusting the electorate for the entire term of a parliament not just giving the impression of doing so for the few short months when it wants us to vote it in. Given this administrations record not just on firearms law but on the so called Freedom of Information bill and the recently enacted RIP bill I see little hope for the forseeable future but ultimately someone in government will have to take that first step. Until then large sections of "The Bill" will view any FAC or SGC as a crime waiting to happen and equally large sections of the shooting population will view the police as at best an obstacle and at worst a threat to their peaceful pursuit. Come the day we are actually trusted with some form of self defence even if it were just a CS spray (which is entirely defensive!) we will have taken considerably more than one step. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Misc-RIP Bill
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The following is culled from the Computer Buyer website and may be of interest as this bill has been mentioned before on the list. The interesting part is at the end as it appears reasonably easy to avoid the snoops if you really need to. "Inept" RIP Bill Passed 27 July - DN Wire -- The controversial Regulation of Investigatory Powers (RIP) Bill has been passed by Parliament, despite being described as "technically inept" in a new report. The Bill, which gives the police extensive powers to install "black box" interception devices on the networks of Internet service providers (ISPs) and demand keys to encrypted data, has received fierce criticism from opposition parties and independent watchdog organisations. Although several important amendments were made to the Bill by the House of Lords last week, including the allocation of รบ20m to cover black box installation costs and the formation of a statutory advisory committee to oversee its implementation, concerns persist over the Bill's wording. The breadth of powers conferred by the legislation raise questions about its compatibility with the European Convention on Human Rights, and RIP will make Britain the only G8 country with government access to keys (GAK) powers. After the Lords debate, Casper Bowden, director of the Foundation for Information Policy Research (FIPR), said, "it's zombie legislation. Although clinically dead with macabre wounds, it still lumbers on menacing both individual privacy and commercial confidence." Now his fears have been confirmed in a report by two security experts, Ian Brown and Brian Gladman. The report states that "the envisaged powers for interception and for seizure of encryption keys are technically inept," and details four "trivially easy" methods for circumventing the Bill's e-mail snooping methods. Although the Bill has been passed by Parliament, it still requires Royal Assent before it enters the statute book. Unless the Queen has been keeping her active interest in IT very well hidden, RIP should be in force before the summer recess. How to avoid being RIPped off... None of the methods suggested in the report require particular technical expertise. The first is to connect to the Internet with a smaller ISP - since the government intends to install the black boxes at a small number of large ISPs, those using smaller providers are less at risk. The cost of installing the interception devices at every ISP in the country will almost certainly be prohibitive. The second approach is to use an e-mail server located outside the UK. Since the machines themselves will be located outside this jurisdiction, enforcement agencies will be unable to access data stored on them. As for traffic between e-mail client and server, Brown and Gladman recommend using the Diffie-Hellman technique, which generates unique keys for the session and are destroyed after use. Thirdly, permanent Internet connections such as ADSL enable e-mail to be delivered directly to the user's PC, without the need for a separate e-mail server. As ADSL falls in price and becomes more popular (BT, take note), black box devices will become increasingly redundant. Currently BT subscribers will not be able to use this loophole for technical reasons. The final method takes advantage of IPv6, a new Internet Protocol currently being introduced. In addition to providing a vastly increased number of IP addresses, all data sent using IPv6 is automatically encrypted. As before, this will circumvent interception devices and render several of the Bill's provisions worthless. Joel Harrison Brian T -- I wouldn't call going to ADSL or IPv6 "trivially easy" solutions, myself. IPv6 isn't even a commercial proposition at the moment and you have to build the installation file yourself using the software from the Microsoft development website. ADSL for home use won't be available until the end of this month and it is available only in limited areas and costs L40 a month. (Plus BTopenworld still uses an email server at the moment anyway). Going to a smaller ISP is no guarantee because it may be a big ISP next week. Using a mail server outside the UK is the easiest and surest method. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-Lower than Paedophiles
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Some of you may remember that the previous Conservative administeration found it preferable to make space in Parliaments schedule to persecute us rather than proceed with legislation regarding Paedophiles. A situation that was only reversed after public opinion persuaded them that they had got it wrong. Worth remembering where we stand in the Conservative scheme of things when your local chinless wonder comes canvasing. Brian T Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Pol-checks and balances
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] The day we see online voting on the majority of issues is the day that Murdoch achieves world domination. The film "Running Man" was on TV last night and I was struck by the fact that far from looking dated it's getting closer to reality with every passing year. Brian T -- There is a town somewhere in the UK where they do have online voting on some issues, I can't remember the name of it though. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Legal-Advertising Shooting
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] You said - ' You can advertise gun clubs anywhere '. Not true for some obscure reason you cannot advertise shooting on TV its enshrined in one of the Broadcasting Acts of the 1960's. Regards Jerry -- Oh damn, better can the multi-million pound adverts I was planning to run on TV for our gun club then! Steve. Appreciate the humour but it does raise interesting problems on the rare occasions when shooting is covered on TV (thinking of the Olympics and next Commonwealth games). Specifically in relation to product placement or clothing. Where would we stand if another SuperCooper emerges and is interviewed wearing a shooting promotional T shirt, decals on the weapon or even gives one of the organisations a plug. If I've thought of it you can bet your life there's a hoplophobe out there sharpening his writs as we speak. Brian T -- Actually with the increasing number of channels the cost of advertising is falling, but anyway I cannot see how the Broadcasting Act could prevent ads on a non-domestic channel like some of the sports channels that are broadcast from Germany. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
CS: Target-Shooting on TV
From: "Brian Toller", [EMAIL PROTECTED] On North West Tonight, which is a regional Beeb news program in the early evening. A piece about five minutes long which I think is one of a series on Olympic competitors. This one featured Phil Babb who will be competing in Prone rifle. Bit about when he took it up, fair bit of footage at his club (Appleton) of him practising and giving a brief run through of what it's all about. Totally unbiased, no snide comments and treated as any other sport, all very positive. The clincher though was when the female co-presenter (not a regular viewer so didn't catch her name) said after the item finished that she had qualified as a "pro marksman" in rifle. Quizzed at the end of the show by her partner as to when and how. She got it at a summer school in the States in a scheme run by the NRA. Apart from an "I'd better not upset you" comment this also went by without any raised eyebrows. It's not that long since an admission like that could have been close to professional suicide for a media presenter. Brian T -- Presumably professional suicide would be ending up working for North West TonightG. Still, good to hear about something positive (for a change). Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ T O P I C A The Email You Want. http://www.topica.com/t/16 Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Your Favorite Topics
