ok, let me try this again... sorry about that. --gabe
- Forwarded message from James Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 21:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Linux Kernel Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] DMCA loop hole
Sorry this
At 10:19 PM -0700 7/31/01, Black Unicorn wrote:
Show me exactly which law I am breaking by placing some of my
documents or files in a place even I cannot turn over all copies
from.
I have never heard of such a law.
If you know you've committed some kind of weapons violations or some
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At 10:22 PM -0700 7/31/01, Black Unicorn wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: Spoliation, escrows, courts, pigs.
Seeing all you high-power lawyers here humbles me.
Even when your grumpy, Mr.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Somebody seriously needs to make a test case out of this idea. I can
just see the headline: EvilHackerTerrorist sues Symantec over
unlawful circumvention of the content protection scheme used by his
copyrighted ScrewTheDMCA virus!
- - Forwarded
DEAR SIR
OUR FACTORY (JINYUN LOCKS FACTORY) ARE SPECILIZING IN THE PRODUCING OF THE MANY KINDS
OF IRON AND BRASS PADLOCKS. NOW, WE MAINLY CAN SUPPLY THE A88; AA88; TRI-NINE;
PANDA AND SO ON BRANDS PADLOCKS. WE ALSO CAN SUPPLY THE PADLOCKS ACCORDING TO YOUR
DRAWING AND BRAND NAMES. ABOUT OUR
"I would like to share something with you. First let me say, I'm not trying
to sell you anything (I don't like it when people do that). But, I do like
it when people share with me what "works" in their life. Well,..
I have found something that "WORKS".
Young and old, male and female, if you
At 12:00 AM 07/31/2001 -0700, Alan wrote:
I guess we *do* have the best government money can buy. We just were not the
ones writing the checks...
Naahhh... You ought to be able to buy a much better government than that. :-)
That actually is part of the problem - governments writing laws
This is truely humorous.
As BU said earlier You overestimate the average contextual awareness level of the
typical cypherpunk reader I think.
He's right.
At 11:19 PM -0700 7/31/01, Tim May wrote:
At 10:19 PM -0700 7/31/01, Black Unicorn wrote:
I've seen more of this in the white collar
Alan wrote:
On Friday 27 July 2001 11:13, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Declan McCullagh writes:
One of those -- and you can thank groups like ACM for this, if my
legislative memory is correct -- explicitly permits encryption
research. You can argue fairly
Black Unicorn wrote:
If I were a duly appointed law enforcement official I could arrest you for
the
kind of shoes you were wearing. You'll have recourse eventually, but it will
be after a 24 hour (or so) stay in the pokey and posting bail and hiring an
attorney, and
Yes, yes, and the claim
Black Unicorn wrote:
A legal education is the ultimate dose of practical cynicism. It
quickly becomes apparent not that the law isn't perfect, but that it
is often pretty damn screwed up. American jurisprudence is about
_fairness of process_, not justice, or right, or wrong.
Come now,
Title: Your Membership Exchange, #440
Your Membership Exchange, Issue #440
August 1, 2001
Your place to exchange ideas, ask questions, swap links, and share your skills!
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote:
First, you will of course find that no one but yourself will check
the yahoogroups ghetto site. (If you are not familiar with the
Possible, but at least I've got an archived list of cpunx-related
material, which I can reference later (with other
Are you currently using a permission based Opt-in email list?
Give us a try.
We have double opt-in lists that out perform everyone. To prove
it, we are offering a Special Low Cost Promotion. We will send your
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At 01:31 AM 8/1/01 -0700, Petro wrote:
I say this is bullshit. By your vague (no plausible cites, just some
1L literatlisms), whispering is spoliation. Failure to archive tape
recordings of conversations is spoliation. Use of encryption is
spoliation. Drawing the curtains is spoliation.
No,
Gabriel Rocha wrote:
- Forwarded message from James Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] -
[...]
Virus writers can use the DMCA in a perverse way. Because
computer viruses are programs, they can be copyrighted just like a
book, song, or movie. If a virus writer were to use
On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:15:29PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
You talk a lot about courts not being amused but I can find no
evidence that such laws exist. Nor can I find any case where a Mafia
don was prosecuted for spoliating a future prosecution by
whispering.
Do you have such examples?
I've just created a dedicated email newsticker for cypherpunk related bit
of news at (evil) Yahoogroups. It's not for discussion, it's for dumping
pointers to bits of news (or, better, the bits of news verbatim).
So, if you come across a bit of relevant news, post it there, not to
cpunx.
NOTE: This one-time message is in response to your online ad. You
are NOT on a mailing list and you will NOT receive any more messages.
Please send more details about your ad/offer.
On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:36:27PM -0700, Black Unicorn wrote:
Oh great.
Now every news story on this thing will be echoed by Mr. Choate directly to
the list without any introductory commentary.
Yes. Don't feed the beast, or encourage him. That is not the path to
cypherpunk salvation.
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
Competition Subcommittee hearing on S.1233, the Product Package Protection
Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of our Cereal Boxes. Location: 226
Dirksen Senate Office Building. 2 p.m. Contact: 202-224-7703
To add to what Ken wrote:
* DMCA includes a research exemption that would cover this if
virus writer was known and could be contacted, and probably even
otherwise
* If not know, that's probably because he's violating the law
and, as a felon facing prosecution in multiple jurisdictions,
won't be
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/08/01/0051203.shtml
--
--
Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, Let Tesla be, and all was light.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/08/010801082047.htm
James Choate
Product Certification - Operating Systems
Staff Engineer
512-436-1062
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Black Unicorn[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
I also made some speculative suggestions about what encrypting such data
might
look like in a test case extending the facts to be a bit more edgy just to
see
where the limits were. Such a test case (of which there are none to my
At 08:06 AM 8/1/01 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
* If not know, that's probably because he's violating the law
and, as a felon facing prosecution in multiple jurisdictions,
won't be in a hurry to file lawsuits
Remember that one man's remote administration tool is another's
trojan.
A version
--
Dark Unicorn:
Not a particularly useful answer and not necessarily justifiable on the
part of the court. I think eventually a better answer would have to be
produced, one that justified the censorship. We're back to what
originally struck me as odd, and wrong, about this item.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/20766.html
James Choate
Product Certification - Operating Systems
Staff Engineer
512-436-1062
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.sciam.com/news/080101/2.html
James Choate
Product Certification - Operating Systems
Staff Engineer
512-436-1062
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 9:18 AM -0700 8/1/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--
On 31 Jul 2001, at 11:53, Black Unicorn wrote:
I wanted to make sure to correct the common misconception among
cypherpunks that you can just thumb your nose at a court with
impunity.
And I would like to correct the common
Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and
polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a
*huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven
Dwarfs enter...
attachment: sexy virgin.scr
At 12:00 PM +0100 8/1/01, Ken Brown wrote:
How the DMCA affects this I don't know. It goes way beyond the
old-established ideas of copyright, and into the dodgy depths of trade
secrets. It is one thing to say this is mine, you can't use it and
quite another to say this is mine, you aren't even
--
On 31 Jul 2001, at 11:53, Black Unicorn wrote:
I wanted to make sure to correct the common misconception among
cypherpunks that you can just thumb your nose at a court with
impunity.
And I would like to correct the common misconception spread by lawyers that there are
magic legal
Tim May wrote:
It is utterly irresponsible for
you to discuss this on a list
frequented by narcs and informants
and even prosecutors.
No Tim, what is utterly irresponsible is to make bellicose threats on this
list about what your response will be if masked ninjas invade your home. If
they
Tim May wrote:
The law part is about the above,
and exhortations by the lawyers
here (5, by my count) about what
one mustn't do, how courts will
react, the need to be scrupulously
legal in all of one's actions, etc.
Laws of mathematics, not men.
We risk becoming just a pale--a
very,
At 10:17 AM -0700 8/1/01, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
It is on this second point that I had a very disappointing interaction with
Tim at a physical Cypherpunks meeting some years ago. Tim was carrying a
concealed knife that did not comply with California's concealed carry laws.
I mentioned this to
Apologies if this is a repeat, I never received it.
-Original Message-
From: Aimee Farr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:35 PM
To: Black Unicorn
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Spoliation, escrows, courts, pigs. Was: Re: DOJ jails
reporter, Ashcroft
At 1:31 AM -0700 8/1/01, Petro wrote:
This is truely humorous.
As BU said earlier You overestimate the average contextual
awareness level of the typical cypherpunk reader I think.
He's right.
Coming from you (which one of you is Petro and which one is Reese?),
quite a compliment.
A
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
Competition Subcommittee hearing on S.1233, the Product Package Protection
Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of our Cereal Boxes. Location: 226
Dirksen Senate Office
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
1) Cypherpunks write code. This metaphorical admonition tells us to make
the laws irrelevant by outrunning them with technology. I couldn't agree
more. I don't see much benefit in asking the nice lawmakers to do fuck us
so badly, please. Better
Alan Olsen[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
Competition Subcommittee hearing on S.1233, the Product Package
Protection
Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of our Cereal
I keep seeing words like bona fide and legitimate used as modifiers
for cryptographic researcher. The DMCA states :
(3)(B) whether the person is engaged in a legitimate course of study, is
employed, or is appropriately trained or experienced, in the field of
encryption technology; and
Isn't
Alan Olsen[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
Competition Subcommittee hearing on S.1233, the Product Package
Protection
Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of our Cereal
Seems like a regular herd of senior FBI guys wind up at MBNA when
they're ready to amass some capitol for retirement. What are the origins
of the company?
http://www.cptryon.org/compassion/spr99/fbi.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuMills/message/367
James A. Donald wrote:
The basic problem with any legal incantation is that at some point
you must explain to the authorities: My actions were legal for
this reason and that reason, explaining in inconveniently great
detail what you are doing, and their response your complicated and
highly
The time for confidences is over. Lawyers are considering
a change in their ethics about ratting on clients (see NY Times
today); priests are ratting about criminal confessions; reporters
are ratting on interviewees, psychiatrists are ratting patients.
DoJ and the courts are squeezing all the
On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Steve Schear wrote:
At 01:29 PM 7/30/2001 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20010730_chander.html
It will be very interesting if Napster decides to take Mr. Chander's
suggestion and ask the court to force copyright holder's back to the
At 12:14 PM -0700 8/1/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I keep seeing words like bona fide and legitimate used as modifiers
for cryptographic researcher. The DMCA states :
(3)(B) whether the person is engaged in a legitimate course of study, is
employed, or is appropriately trained or experienced, in
Tim May wrote:
I know of many arguments that a
knife can be gotten into a fight
and used effectively _faster_
than a gun can, especially in
very close quarters.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but why not carry both then? A legal knife and a
illegal (misdemeanor) gun rather than just your illegal
Eugene Leitl wrote:
Feds enter houses for whatever
reasons they deem appropriate
to invent...
Then my comments won't affect their actions one way or the other.
Pointing out possible targets
makes no damn reason at all...
Tim already is a target. My minor comments do nothing to change
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 1, 2001
MEDIA ADVISORY
Senators Bennett and Kyl
Postpone Thursday News Conference
WASHINGTON, DC U.S. Senators Robert Bennett (R-UT) and Jon Kyl
(R-AZ) will
postpone tomorrow's news conference on legislation to facilitate joint federal
and
At 02:52 PM 8/1/01 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote:
Politicians have too much trouble justifying their
existence to let a chance like this slip through.
Hahahaha. Actually, I'm starting to feel sorry for politicans, especially
the folks in Congress. Think of it: They have such crude tools available to
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--
I have never heard of such a law.
Black Unicorn:
If you know you've committed some kind of weapons violations or some such and
you have reason to believe you have come to the attention of the authorities,
burning the record of those bulk AK-74 purchases might be a bad idea- if you
At 3:34 AM -0700 8/1/01, Subcommander Bob wrote:
At 01:31 AM 8/1/01 -0700, Petro wrote:
I say this is bullshit. By your vague (no plausible cites, just some
1L literatlisms), whispering is spoliation. Failure to archive tape
recordings of conversations is spoliation. Use of encryption is
--
Tim Starr:
Show me exactly which law I am breaking by placing some of
my documents or files in a place even I cannot turn over
all copies from.
I have never heard of such a law.
Black Unicorn:
If you know you've committed some kind of weapons violations
or some such
James A. Donald wrote:
In the case of Black Unicorn, it
appears to me he was a lawyer who
used to be in the business of
finding loopholes in laws.
That's what ALL good lawyers do. Think of it as hacking the law.
By the way, Tim May's secret identity is not Tim Starr.
S a n d y
--
Trei, Peter
Cleansing disks and memory of keys and plaintext isn't done
to prevent some hypothetical court from looking at evidence;
there are good, legally unremarkable reasons to do so, which
are regarded as good hygiene and 'best practice' in the
industry.
Black Unicorn
--
On 1 Aug 2001, at 14:33, Trei, Peter wrote:
No, Adobe did not use ROT13. They were quite a bit better than that
Not significantly better. Same basic algorithm and weakness as
ROT13
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
--
On 1 Aug 2001, at 14:54, John Young wrote:
The time for confidences is over. Lawyers are considering
a change in their ethics about ratting on clients (see NY Times
today); priests are ratting about criminal confessions; reporters
are ratting on interviewees, psychiatrists are ratting
That's Right! We're Giving It Away!
Your download instructions are below:
To protect you from viruses we have provided you with a html email.
To view this HTML email, either click-on or copy/paste
into your web-browser this link:
http://www.cbroftx.com/server/marketbrowser.htm
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Rick Smith at Secure Computing wrote:
I had suggested that a large number of crypto researchers take the
proactive (or rather, prophylactic) step of informing *all* vendors of copy
protection that the researchers are interested in studying the encryption
used in their
I had suggested that a large number of crypto researchers take the
proactive (or rather, prophylactic) step of informing *all* vendors of copy
protection that the researchers are interested in studying the encryption
used in their products. The notion of this would be that such an act by a
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