Re: Multiple passports?
Bill Stewart wrote: When I saw the title of this thread, I was assuming it would be about getting Mozambique or Sealand or other passports of convenience or coolness-factor like the Old-School Cypherpunks used to do :-) Actually the only passports that are significantly more convenient than US or UK ones (i.e. are more likely to get you in to more places with less fuss from locals in dark glasses) are from the northern European states without a reputation as colonialists - in particular Scandinavian countries Ireland. Everyone likes them. I know plenty of people who used to keep both an Irish and a British passport. Unlike you picky Americans our governments don't have any objection to people being citizens of as many places as they an get away with. And in the days of emigration (all has changed now) you could get an Irish passport if your granny had once spent a wet weekend in Downpatrick. All our passports are being assimilated into EU ones at the moment so I don't know if this has changed. We used to do the Israel/everywhere else thing as well and also would issue spare passports for other places that were unpopular. IIRC Pakistan at one time looked askance at passports that had been to India. South African visitors weren't popular in many countries. And I'm pretty sure that Britain sometimes issued spares to people who wanted to go to the USA after visiting Cuba or Iran (both increasingly popular holiday destinations from here) I strongly suspect that this has changed now that UK pass laws are taken as dictation from the USA.
Re: Multiple passports?
Bill Stewart wrote: When I saw the title of this thread, I was assuming it would be about getting Mozambique or Sealand or other passports of convenience or coolness-factor like the Old-School Cypherpunks used to do :-) Actually the only passports that are significantly more convenient than US or UK ones (i.e. are more likely to get you in to more places with less fuss from locals in dark glasses) are from the northern European states without a reputation as colonialists - in particular Scandinavian countries Ireland. Everyone likes them. I know plenty of people who used to keep both an Irish and a British passport. Unlike you picky Americans our governments don't have any objection to people being citizens of as many places as they an get away with. And in the days of emigration (all has changed now) you could get an Irish passport if your granny had once spent a wet weekend in Downpatrick. All our passports are being assimilated into EU ones at the moment so I don't know if this has changed. We used to do the Israel/everywhere else thing as well and also would issue spare passports for other places that were unpopular. IIRC Pakistan at one time looked askance at passports that had been to India. South African visitors weren't popular in many countries. And I'm pretty sure that Britain sometimes issued spares to people who wanted to go to the USA after visiting Cuba or Iran (both increasingly popular holiday destinations from here) I strongly suspect that this has changed now that UK pass laws are taken as dictation from the USA.
Re: Multiple passports?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Gutmann wrote: Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.) Ahh, but if you get one of the first passports issued then there are likely to still be some teething problems present, leading to sporadic failures of the first batch of RFID devices. I have a funny feeling that this is going to happen to my new passport when it arrives. Peter. I don't have a good feeling about this at all. My passport is actually invalid as a form of ID for anyone who checks closely(the BMV did!) because the gov't printed the wrong birthdate on mine! I went to Germany and back just after the embassy attacks in africa(things were on high alert briefly then) with no questions on it. Try to renew my lost drivers license with it and suddenly its a damn problem. As far as I can tell, they used the month of issue as the birth month as well. A small mistake...but obviously an important one. What ways do you suppose there will be for them to screw up these RFID tags? These days ones libel to get branded a terrorist with the wrong info... - -- Chris Clymer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: E546 19B6 D1EC 47A7 CAA0 8623 C807 398C CD27 15B8 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDZnnuyAc5jM0nFbgRAvBaAKDFUH2QFmKJqIk7WYkw5esWUy/MsACgwWvH iHYKEguTdSdU0wRTIeI4lZg= =UyJk -END PGP SIGNATURE- begin:vcard fn:Chris Clymer n:Clymer;Chris org:Youngstown Linux User Group adr:;;252 Colonial Drive;Canfield;Ohio;44406;United States of America email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Founder tel;cell:330.507.3651 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.chrisclymer.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: Multiple passports?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Gutmann wrote: Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.) Ahh, but if you get one of the first passports issued then there are likely to still be some teething problems present, leading to sporadic failures of the first batch of RFID devices. I have a funny feeling that this is going to happen to my new passport when it arrives. Peter. I don't have a good feeling about this at all. My passport is actually invalid as a form of ID for anyone who checks closely(the BMV did!) because the gov't printed the wrong birthdate on mine! I went to Germany and back just after the embassy attacks in africa(things were on high alert briefly then) with no questions on it. Try to renew my lost drivers license with it and suddenly its a damn problem. As far as I can tell, they used the month of issue as the birth month as well. A small mistake...but obviously an important one. What ways do you suppose there will be for them to screw up these RFID tags? These days ones libel to get branded a terrorist with the wrong info... - -- Chris Clymer - [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: E546 19B6 D1EC 47A7 CAA0 8623 C807 398C CD27 15B8 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDZnnuyAc5jM0nFbgRAvBaAKDFUH2QFmKJqIk7WYkw5esWUy/MsACgwWvH iHYKEguTdSdU0wRTIeI4lZg= =UyJk -END PGP SIGNATURE- begin:vcard fn:Chris Clymer n:Clymer;Chris org:Youngstown Linux User Group adr:;;252 Colonial Drive;Canfield;Ohio;44406;United States of America email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Founder tel;cell:330.507.3651 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.chrisclymer.com version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: Multiple passports?
On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 03:05:25AM +, Justin wrote: If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once the gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be invalidated? Or can I have two passports, the one without RFID to use, and the one with RFID to play with? Here in Germany the current ID (sans smartcard/rfid/biometics) will be valid until expiry date. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Multiple passports?
Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.) Ahh, but if you get one of the first passports issued then there are likely to still be some teething problems present, leading to sporadic failures of the first batch of RFID devices. I have a funny feeling that this is going to happen to my new passport when it arrives. Peter.
Re: Multiple passports?
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 03:05:25 + From: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED] If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once the gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be invalidated? Or can I have two passports, the one without RFID to use, and the one with RFID to play with? I am not a State Dept person, but my experiences in this are... If you get a new one, the old one has to accompany the application and is invalidated when the new one is issued. (Invalidated by stamping the 'data' page with big red block letters INVALID.) The old, now invalid is returned with the new one... The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport. If they wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue) passport. As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.) Regards, Gregory Hicks -- The six phases of a project: I. Enthusiasm. IV. Search for the Guilty. II. Disillusionment. V. Punishment of the Innocent. III. Panic.VI. Praise Honor for the Nonparticipants. - I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision. - Benjamin Franklin The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. --Alexander Hamilton
Re: Multiple passports?
On 10/30/05, Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport. If they wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue) passport. I wasn't able to find a reference to support this on http://state.gov, but I know it's possible to get two passports if you plan to travel to both Israel and a country that refuses to admit people with Israeli stamps in their passports. /jgt
Re: Multiple passports?
When I saw the title of this thread, I was assuming it would be about getting Mozambique or Sealand or other passports of convenience or coolness-factor like the Old-School Cypherpunks used to do :-) On 10/30/05, Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport. If they wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue) passport. A few years ago, before heading on an overseas trip, I was unable to locate my current passport. After dealing with a voicemail system adapted from a Kafka novel, and bringing myself, my previous expired passport and other id, a couple official-sized photographs and cash through the secret-handshake elevator into a big waiting room for a long morning, they made me a new passport. (If you need to replace a passport more than a month before your planned travel, you're supposed to use the regular process at the Post Office and maybe pay extra for Express Mail if you're impatient. If you need to replace a passport within 3 days of travel, they've got expedited processes at major passport offices like San Francisco. But if you need to replace your passport two weeks before the trip, there's no way to talk to a human being, just Kafka's voicemailbot, so you have to wait until 3 days before the trip to get an appointment for the emergency expedited process instead of going in when you and they aren't busy :-) They informed me that the lost passport was now invalid and I should turn it in if I find it, because if I were to use it to get back into the country it would be rejected with extreme prejudice, since its number is now on the lost passports list. Of course the next day when I was packing, the passport showed up on the closet floor under the suitcase, and unlike the previous passport which I took in to replace when it was about to expire, it doesn't have holes punched in it and Expired stamped on it. For domestic air travel since the recent military coup, I normally bring a passport as ID, since it's a request from the former United States government asking foreign governments like the current TSA White People to let me pass, and I'd rather carry the technically-invalid one with me instead of the valid one just in case I lose it. I think I've also used it to travel from the EU back to the US, but I'd expect that the La Migra thugs will eventually improve their databases, possibly even before my old one expires, especially because Homeland Security wants to RFIDize us. I was considering losing my current passport before the RFID things get started, but it doesn't look like there's time, so I've got about 5 years to hope that the Republicans get thrown out on their asses in the next election and the Democrats decide that returning to the Constitution will sell better than continuing the Permanent State of Yellowalertness. Given the previous Clinton Administration's behavior, I don't expect the Hillary Clinton Administration to do any better. At 09:27 PM 10/29/2005, Jay Goodman Tamboli wrote: I wasn't able to find a reference to support this on http://state.gov, but I know it's possible to get two passports if you plan to travel to both Israel and a country that refuses to admit people with Israeli stamps in their passports. I don't think the US normally lets you have two passports, or if they do they almost certainly have the same number. But at least during the 1980s, Israel would be happy to give you a separate piece of paper with to carry with your passport that they'd stamp when you entered and left instead of stamping the passport itself. I don't remember if I did that or if I decided not to worry about it because I'd visited the Arab countries before going to Israel and didn't expect to get back any time soon.
Re: Multiple passports?
When I saw the title of this thread, I was assuming it would be about getting Mozambique or Sealand or other passports of convenience or coolness-factor like the Old-School Cypherpunks used to do :-) On 10/30/05, Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport. If they wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue) passport. A few years ago, before heading on an overseas trip, I was unable to locate my current passport. After dealing with a voicemail system adapted from a Kafka novel, and bringing myself, my previous expired passport and other id, a couple official-sized photographs and cash through the secret-handshake elevator into a big waiting room for a long morning, they made me a new passport. (If you need to replace a passport more than a month before your planned travel, you're supposed to use the regular process at the Post Office and maybe pay extra for Express Mail if you're impatient. If you need to replace a passport within 3 days of travel, they've got expedited processes at major passport offices like San Francisco. But if you need to replace your passport two weeks before the trip, there's no way to talk to a human being, just Kafka's voicemailbot, so you have to wait until 3 days before the trip to get an appointment for the emergency expedited process instead of going in when you and they aren't busy :-) They informed me that the lost passport was now invalid and I should turn it in if I find it, because if I were to use it to get back into the country it would be rejected with extreme prejudice, since its number is now on the lost passports list. Of course the next day when I was packing, the passport showed up on the closet floor under the suitcase, and unlike the previous passport which I took in to replace when it was about to expire, it doesn't have holes punched in it and Expired stamped on it. For domestic air travel since the recent military coup, I normally bring a passport as ID, since it's a request from the former United States government asking foreign governments like the current TSA White People to let me pass, and I'd rather carry the technically-invalid one with me instead of the valid one just in case I lose it. I think I've also used it to travel from the EU back to the US, but I'd expect that the La Migra thugs will eventually improve their databases, possibly even before my old one expires, especially because Homeland Security wants to RFIDize us. I was considering losing my current passport before the RFID things get started, but it doesn't look like there's time, so I've got about 5 years to hope that the Republicans get thrown out on their asses in the next election and the Democrats decide that returning to the Constitution will sell better than continuing the Permanent State of Yellowalertness. Given the previous Clinton Administration's behavior, I don't expect the Hillary Clinton Administration to do any better. At 09:27 PM 10/29/2005, Jay Goodman Tamboli wrote: I wasn't able to find a reference to support this on http://state.gov, but I know it's possible to get two passports if you plan to travel to both Israel and a country that refuses to admit people with Israeli stamps in their passports. I don't think the US normally lets you have two passports, or if they do they almost certainly have the same number. But at least during the 1980s, Israel would be happy to give you a separate piece of paper with to carry with your passport that they'd stamp when you entered and left instead of stamping the passport itself. I don't remember if I did that or if I decided not to worry about it because I'd visited the Arab countries before going to Israel and didn't expect to get back any time soon.
Re: Multiple passports?
On Sun, Oct 30, 2005 at 03:05:25AM +, Justin wrote: If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once the gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be invalidated? Or can I have two passports, the one without RFID to use, and the one with RFID to play with? Here in Germany the current ID (sans smartcard/rfid/biometics) will be valid until expiry date. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Multiple passports?
On 2005-10-29T21:17:25-0700, Gregory Hicks wrote: Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 03:05:25 + From: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED] If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once the gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be invalidated? Or can I have two passports, the one without RFID to use, and the one with RFID to play with? I am not a State Dept person, but my experiences in this are... As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.) The Department intends to begin the electronic passport program in December 2005. The first stage will be a pilot program in which the electronic passports will be issued to U.S. Government employees who use Official or Diplomatic passports for government travel. This pilot program will permit a limited number of passports to be issued and field tested prior to the first issuance to the American traveling public, slated for early 2006. By October 2006, all U.S. passports, with the exception of a small number of emergency passports issued by U.S. embassies or consulates, will be electronic passports. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2005/05-21284.htm (2005-10-25 Fed. Reg.) It sounds like it's fairly safe to get a new passport after Halloween... at least until January. -- The six phases of a project: I. Enthusiasm. IV. Search for the Guilty. II. Disillusionment. V. Punishment of the Innocent. III. Panic.VI. Praise Honor for the Nonparticipants.
Re: Multiple passports?
Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.) Ahh, but if you get one of the first passports issued then there are likely to still be some teething problems present, leading to sporadic failures of the first batch of RFID devices. I have a funny feeling that this is going to happen to my new passport when it arrives. Peter.
Re: Multiple passports?
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 03:05:25 + From: Justin [EMAIL PROTECTED] If I apply for a new one now, and then apply for a another one once the gov starts RFID-enabling them, will the first one be invalidated? Or can I have two passports, the one without RFID to use, and the one with RFID to play with? I am not a State Dept person, but my experiences in this are... If you get a new one, the old one has to accompany the application and is invalidated when the new one is issued. (Invalidated by stamping the 'data' page with big red block letters INVALID.) The old, now invalid is returned with the new one... The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport. If they wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue) passport. As for applying for one now, I think the deadline for the non-RFID passwords is about 3 days away (31 Oct 2005), but I could be wrong. (In other words, if your application is not in processing by 31 Oct, then you get the new, improved, RFID passport.) Regards, Gregory Hicks -- The six phases of a project: I. Enthusiasm. IV. Search for the Guilty. II. Disillusionment. V. Punishment of the Innocent. III. Panic.VI. Praise Honor for the Nonparticipants. - I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision. - Benjamin Franklin The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed. --Alexander Hamilton
Re: Multiple passports?
On 10/30/05, Gregory Hicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only people that I knew that had two passports were those with an Official (red) passport or a Diplomatic (black) passport. If they wanted to go play tourist, they had to also have a tourist (Blue) passport. I wasn't able to find a reference to support this on http://state.gov, but I know it's possible to get two passports if you plan to travel to both Israel and a country that refuses to admit people with Israeli stamps in their passports. /jgt
