RE: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
I know someone who knows him very well. I'll see what I can find out. -Original Message- From: owner-deadli...@nemesis.cs.berkeley.edu [mailto:owner-deadli...@nemesis.cs.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Powell Sent: 25 April 2012 11:57 To: deadlists Subject: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C. It would be useful if someone who's in touch with him -- without mentioning any names -- could ask T.C. to give a listen to the tape posted on archive.org and see if he can say whether it's him or not. Maybe he'll surprise us but it sounds like there's an emerging consensus that the keyboards aren't T.C. and aren't Pipgen, for whom the incessant wooden repetition of that riff would have been as unlikely as for T.C., unless maybe he was on a macrobiotic fast and ludes or something. Maybe it's an electric organ, John. It's not necessarily possible to tell, especially at that point. I hazarded the May-June 1958 date based on the sense that the band is less together, more tentative than in the August 68 tapes (21, 22, 23, 24, 28) and partly because they are rehearsing material they play in August. But maybe the 11/6/68 date is accurate. It's around the period when we have circulating tapes of Dead members with other musicians without Pigpen Bobby (Oct 8, 9, 10 30). Where does the 11/6/68 date come from? Can Lemieux comment on this? How is this tape labeled in the Vault? I have the impression that Alembic was a name Bear applied variously at will. * Michael Zlotnick., my guess is your bootleg's track is actually Cafe a Go Go, NYC 9/29/69 Doin' That Rag [7:30] The Seven [7:04] ... -- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2411/4957 - Release Date: 04/24/12
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
Some info from David Lemieux: That November 68 tape is not in the vault as far as I know, and I went through everything from Fall of 1968 a few years ago. I know the session, though, and am quite certain it's TC learning the material. I'll add that a date of November (or earlier) wouldn't rule out TC - he could have visited the Dead in the studio while on leave, as he did when they were recording Anthem. Considering his work on that album, it makes sense he'd be first choice to work on the Aoxomoxoa material as well. It would also partly explain why he sounds so cautious unfamiliar with the material, as he might not have played any of it before that day. So that's something else to consider. As a sidenote, there's an interesting development in the 9/21/68 studio jam I mentioned. Lemieux mentions that there were two other guitar players (on one track of the recording), listed only as David and Vic. Gans suggests that one of the players is David Nelson, but I don't know who Vic is. (The brief jam included on the Taper's Section seems to be just an excerpt from the start of the session.)
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
I spoke with Nelson about this yesterday. We're going to get together soon to listen to that bit of 9/21/68 together and see if it's him. He has no idea who Vic might have been. On Apr 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Caleb Kennedy wrote: Some info from David Lemieux: That November 68 tape is not in the vault as far as I know, and I went through everything from Fall of 1968 a few years ago. I know the session, though, and am quite certain it's TC learning the material. I'll add that a date of November (or earlier) wouldn't rule out TC - he could have visited the Dead in the studio while on leave, as he did when they were recording Anthem. Considering his work on that album, it makes sense he'd be first choice to work on the Aoxomoxoa material as well. It would also partly explain why he sounds so cautious unfamiliar with the material, as he might not have played any of it before that day. So that's something else to consider. As a sidenote, there's an interesting development in the 9/21/68 studio jam I mentioned. Lemieux mentions that there were two other guitar players (on one track of the recording), listed only as David and Vic. Gans suggests that one of the players is David Nelson, but I don't know who Vic is. (The brief jam included on the Taper's Section seems to be just an excerpt from the start of the session.) David Gans - da...@trufun.com or da...@gdhour.com Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave. #102, Oakland CA 94610-2730 Blog: http://cloudsurfing.gdhour.com Web site: http://www.dgans.com Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgans Music: http://www.cdbaby.com/all/dgans
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
Fantastic information. I think I can be a lot of help here. The overwhelmingly most likely candidate for the mysterious Vic is former Eric Burdon and The Animals guitarist Vic Briggs. Among many other things, he took the great electric sitar solo on Eric Burdon's Monterey. Vic first met the Grateful Dead on March 26, 1967, when the Animals showed up at the Avalon when the Dead were playing ( http://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2010/10/march-26-1967-avalon-ballroom-san.html). It's well established that Jerry Garcia was a big fan of Vic Briggs's guitar playing. If you're interested in the entire history of the second, psychedelic Eric Burdon and The Animals, Ross's and my opus is here ( http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Eric%20Burdon.htm). The essence of it is that by September 1968 Briggs had left the Animals to become a staff producer at Capitol. He would have been free to come up to SF and jam with the Dead, and he definitely had the chops. Briggs would have been a very good candidate for Weir's slot. Ironically, since he was tired of the road from the Animals, and had a staff gig in LA, he may have found the idea of touring with a financially insecure bunch of loons a bit of old hat, having already been there/done that by September '68. Whoops. I have a new, time-consuming job--which is a very good thing, you should be happy for me--but it has dramatically cut down on my blogging. Thus I am not really in a position to find the time to take care of business. Would any (or all) of you like to email Vic Briggs and ask him? Some details: - Vic now goes by the name Antion Meredith - He lives in New Zealand (email: anahol...@gmail.com) - Based on my numerous emails with him, he seems to be the nicest guy imaginable - He has an incredibly good memory, and he's working on his memoirs, so he's very locked in on past events - His stories are amazing and hilarious - His memory trigger is days of the week--make sure to mention to him that Sep 21 '68 is a Saturday Good luck with this. Let me know how it goes Corry Arnold Edison, NJ (as a footnote, I have a backup choice too, Berkeley guitarist Vic Smith, but he seems much less likely. Still, since Ross and I are nothing if not thorough, here is the relevant Family Tree: http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Sky%20Blue.htm) On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Caleb Kennedy thehor...@earthlink.netwrote: Some info from David Lemieux: That November 68 tape is not in the vault as far as I know, and I went through everything from Fall of 1968 a few years ago. I know the session, though, and am quite certain it's TC learning the material. I'll add that a date of November (or earlier) wouldn't rule out TC - he could have visited the Dead in the studio while on leave, as he did when they were recording Anthem. Considering his work on that album, it makes sense he'd be first choice to work on the Aoxomoxoa material as well. It would also partly explain why he sounds so cautious unfamiliar with the material, as he might not have played any of it before that day. So that's something else to consider. As a sidenote, there's an interesting development in the 9/21/68 studio jam I mentioned. Lemieux mentions that there were two other guitar players (on one track of the recording), listed only as David and Vic. Gans suggests that one of the players is David Nelson, but I don't know who Vic is. (The brief jam included on the Taper's Section seems to be just an excerpt from the start of the session.)
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
ok, well, this wasn't really intended for the entire Deadlists, but what the heck. I emailed Antion (Vic) myself, so don't pound him with emails. If he recalls it, I'll post it here On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Corry Arnold corrarn...@gmail.com wrote: Fantastic information. I think I can be a lot of help here. The overwhelmingly most likely candidate for the mysterious Vic is former Eric Burdon and The Animals guitarist Vic Briggs. Among many other things, he took the great electric sitar solo on Eric Burdon's Monterey. Vic first met the Grateful Dead on March 26, 1967, when the Animals showed up at the Avalon when the Dead were playing ( http://lostlivedead.blogspot.com/2010/10/march-26-1967-avalon-ballroom-san.html). It's well established that Jerry Garcia was a big fan of Vic Briggs's guitar playing. If you're interested in the entire history of the second, psychedelic Eric Burdon and The Animals, Ross's and my opus is here ( http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Eric%20Burdon.htm). The essence of it is that by September 1968 Briggs had left the Animals to become a staff producer at Capitol. He would have been free to come up to SF and jam with the Dead, and he definitely had the chops. Briggs would have been a very good candidate for Weir's slot. Ironically, since he was tired of the road from the Animals, and had a staff gig in LA, he may have found the idea of touring with a financially insecure bunch of loons a bit of old hat, having already been there/done that by September '68. Whoops. I have a new, time-consuming job--which is a very good thing, you should be happy for me--but it has dramatically cut down on my blogging. Thus I am not really in a position to find the time to take care of business. Would any (or all) of you like to email Vic Briggs and ask him? Some details: - Vic now goes by the name Antion Meredith - He lives in New Zealand (email: anahol...@gmail.com) - Based on my numerous emails with him, he seems to be the nicest guy imaginable - He has an incredibly good memory, and he's working on his memoirs, so he's very locked in on past events - His stories are amazing and hilarious - His memory trigger is days of the week--make sure to mention to him that Sep 21 '68 is a Saturday Good luck with this. Let me know how it goes Corry Arnold Edison, NJ (as a footnote, I have a backup choice too, Berkeley guitarist Vic Smith, but he seems much less likely. Still, since Ross and I are nothing if not thorough, here is the relevant Family Tree: http://www.chickenonaunicycle.com/Sky%20Blue.htm) On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Caleb Kennedy thehor...@earthlink.netwrote: Some info from David Lemieux: That November 68 tape is not in the vault as far as I know, and I went through everything from Fall of 1968 a few years ago. I know the session, though, and am quite certain it's TC learning the material. I'll add that a date of November (or earlier) wouldn't rule out TC - he could have visited the Dead in the studio while on leave, as he did when they were recording Anthem. Considering his work on that album, it makes sense he'd be first choice to work on the Aoxomoxoa material as well. It would also partly explain why he sounds so cautious unfamiliar with the material, as he might not have played any of it before that day. So that's something else to consider. As a sidenote, there's an interesting development in the 9/21/68 studio jam I mentioned. Lemieux mentions that there were two other guitar players (on one track of the recording), listed only as David and Vic. Gans suggests that one of the players is David Nelson, but I don't know who Vic is. (The brief jam included on the Taper's Section seems to be just an excerpt from the start of the session.)
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
from my notes... I-) ihor -- Grateful Dead – Alembic Studios - Rehearsals – December 1x, 1968 1. (x) Turn On Your Lovelight (Jerry Garcia – vocals) (4.48) 2. (x) Dark Star (13.17) 3. St. Stephen (4.16) 4. “Fortune comes a-calling…” (0.32) 5. “Fortune comes a-calling…” (0.32) 6. “Fortune comes a-calling…” (0.40) 7. “St. Stephen will remain…” (1.18) 8. “Fortune comes a-calling…” (1.32) 9. “High green…”jam (3.44) 10. …end of St. Stephen, discussion, music, discussion (Jerry Garcia: Take it from the front? Okay, take it from the top.) () 11. St. Stephen… (Bob Weir: Can we have more monitors?) (1.10) 12. St. Stephen (3.54) 13. “…High green…”The Eleven Jam (5.21) 14. “…High green…”The Eleven (jam vocals jam) (13.48) 15. (Phil Lesh: Bullsh*t! It happens every time)The Eleven jam (That’s the trouble with having schizophrenic drums) (10.11) 16. (x) The Eleven jamdiscussiondrums (Mickey Hart) and bass (4.29) 17. The Eleven jam on drums (Mickey Hart), bass, and Jerry Garcia (1.12) 18. The Eleven jam on drums (Mickey Hart), bass, and Jerry Garcia (1.44) Soundboard – time = 74.25 --
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
I was about to say that I thought it was Pigpen after all... Now I'm not quite sure, but there still are some interesting things here. What evidence do we have that it's not Pigpen? Just that Jerry sings Lovelight? There could be other reasons for that (Pig's mic isn't set up yet, or he doesn't want to sing, or Jerry's just fooling around). (At the end of it, someone says with humor, Get the f*** off there! and someone else says Get offa there!) I am not sure why you call it an electric piano, Jim -- sure sounds like an organ to me. I sort of agree with Jim Caleb that it doesn't sound like T.C I think even more that it sounds like Pigpen, or someone trying to imitate him closely. Listen to other 1968 recordings of Dark Star, Stephen, and yes, Lovelight. - Dark Star has the same repeated 8 note riff Pigpen plays for the entire song. Would any other keyboardist do that? - Lovelight sounds a bit like Pigpen's style and phrasing, but we don't really often get to hear him play at all since when he's the one singing he usually lays back on the organ. - The first takes of Stephen on this tape have the organ playing very tentatively (like during the lady finger portion), but the last takes are quite similar to the way things ended up by the time they were performing Stephen at the Shrine in August. I agree with Caleb it's not from May/June. At that point Stephen had a different structure and wasn't paired with the Eleven. By the time we got to the August shows at the Shrine, Stephen/Eleven was a more polished combination not dissimilar to the final versions on this recording. There is a long gap of (documented) performances between June and August. This would have been a good time for them to stay at home and rehearse new material. Perhaps this was a gap in touring created intentionally for this purpose, or maybe they were just opportunistic. But these were apparently fairly important rehearsals for them to go to the trouble of making a high quality recording mix (and preserving the results) instead of just throwing up a single ambient mic. And I think it's distinctive from the other '68 jams with guests: they are obviously working out the structure of the Stephen/Eleven transition and not just jamming. So I think the evidence points to this tape in the July, possibly early August, time frame. The first part of Lovelight is not on the recording. Apparently it was the first song (you can hear the engineers bringing the instruments up in the mix while the song is already pretty far along). After Lovelight, Weir (?) says That's the basic concept... and someone (Lesh?) says ...faster and faster. After some unintelligible words, as Jerry continues to vamp Lovelight, someone yells Hey, did you record any of that? (someone responds off-mic) (some unintelligible stuff) then, How much of it? Did you start the [unintelligible-wish I could understand] ]. Soon after you hear them teaching the beginning of Dark Star (B minor seventh). In one of the Stephen takes, just after what another man spills, Weir shouts out, you're invited to sing along on that one Could they maybe teaching Pigpen? I'm not 100% sure it is Pigpen, but it does seem a little odd to me that they'd be combining a new member rehearsal or audition with the musical composition they're doing in Stephen/Eleven. -jfw
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
As a footnote to this very interesting discussion, I should point out that regardless of when in 1968 this rehearsal took place, there wasn't really an Alembic Studios. Now, its possible that the band was calling their rehearsal hall Alembic Studios, but the enterprise known on the backs of albums as 'Alembic Studios' did not open until 1971. Alembic took over Pacific High Recorders at 60 Brady St in San Francisco and re-named it Alembic Studios. In 1968, I don't think there was an 'Alembic' entity except perhaps in Owsley's mind.
Re: supposed Alembic studio 68 rehearsal with T.C.
That's the same recording - starts with Garcia singing a short Lovelight. (Clue #1 that there's no Pigpen onhand.) Same tape as: http://archive.org/details/gd1968-11-06.StudioRehearsals.GEMS.82393.flac16 It's floated around under different labels; my copy is dated 12-6-68. -Original Message- Is the recording downloadable/streamable somewhere? This seems different than the one you're talking about: Alembic Studios on 1968-11-06 (November 6, 1968) http://archive.org/details/gd68-11-06.sbd.unknown.12618.sbeok.shnf
