On Mon, 03 Dec 2018 at 17:45:11 +0100, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sun, 2018-12-02 at 21:04 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> > moving hundreds of megabytes from /usr to / over time.
>
> This solution was proposed by GNU/Hurd several years ago, and was scrapped due
> to not being big enough player in the
On Sun, 2018-12-02 at 21:04 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>
> The next debhelper change might choose to give / instead of /usr as a
> target directory by default, moving hundreds of megabytes from /usr to /
> over time.
This solution was proposed by GNU/Hurd several years ago, and was scrapped due
to
On Sun, Dec 02, 2018 at 11:31:13PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Dec 02, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
>
> > One thing that has not been answered yet in this discussion (and if the
> > TC is to make a decision about it, I think it should be) is "why are we
> > doing this". That is, what is the
On Sun, Dec 02, 2018 at 11:31:13PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Dec 02, Wouter Verhelst wrote:>
> > One thing that has not been answered yet in this discussion (and if the
> > TC is to make a decision about it, I think it should be) is "why are we
> > doing this". That is, what is the problem
On Sun, 02 Dec 2018 at 21:04:55 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> The next debhelper change might choose to give / instead of /usr as a
> target directory by default, moving hundreds of megabytes from /usr to /
> over time.
I don't think anyone is proposing that. There's no reason why it would be
On Dec 02, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> One thing that has not been answered yet in this discussion (and if the
> TC is to make a decision about it, I think it should be) is "why are we
> doing this". That is, what is the problem that usrmerge is meant to
> solve, and how does it attempt to solve
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 01:49:45PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Control: reassign -1 tech-ctte
>
> Dear Technical Committee. I don't know if you are all aware of the
> discussion surrounding this, so I will recap:
>
> Recently debootstrap was changed to do merged-/usr by default, so that
> /bin
Marc Haber writes:
> The next debhelper change might choose to give / instead of /usr as a
> target directory by default, moving hundreds of megabytes from /usr to /
> over time. My question was about the distant future, and not the current
> snapshot of things.
If anything then /usr would be the
On Sun, Dec 02, 2018 at 07:54:39PM +, Simon McVittie wrote:
> I would encourage anyone with questions about the behaviour of merged and
> unmerged /usr systems to try them, either by building one chroot, container
> or VM with merged /usr and one without, or by building a chroot, container
>
On Sun, 02 Dec 2018 at 19:54:39 +, Simon McVittie wrote:
> When installed on a merged /usr system:
Oops, of course this should have said:
.deb contains -> /bin/grep/usr/bin/perl
/bin/fooexists thanks to /bin symlink exists thanks to /bin symlink
/usr/bin/foo
Marc Haber writes:
> On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 11:36:45PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
>> Le samedi, 1 décembre 2018, 19.29:59 h CET Marc Haber a écrit :
>> > Will binaries move from /usr/bin to /bin? Or will binaries move from
>> > /bin to /usr/bin?
>>
>> A merged-/usr has a /bin → /usr/bin
On Sun, 02 Dec 2018 at 20:16:10 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 11:36:45PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> > A merged-/usr has a /bin → /usr/bin symlink; so a .deb package unpacking
> > /bin/grep will make that binary end up in /usr/bin/grep; but the
> > /bin → /usr/bin
On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 11:36:45PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> Le samedi, 1 décembre 2018, 19.29:59 h CET Marc Haber a écrit :
> > Will binaries move from /usr/bin to /bin? Or will binaries move from
> > /bin to /usr/bin?
>
> A merged-/usr has a /bin → /usr/bin symlink; so a .deb package
Hello Didier,
Thanks for providing your reasoning.
On Sun, Dec 02, 2018 at 01:28:20AM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
[...]
> In other words, if the debootstrap maintainers now agree with Ian about
> toggling the "merged-/usr" default back to false, there's really no point for
> the TC to
Le dimanche, 2 décembre 2018, 00.23:05 h CET Andreas Henriksson a écrit :
> On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 07:20:57PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> > * With my TC hat on, I have formally asked the debootstrap maintainers
> > (and specifically Hideki Yamane) if they would consider a toggle of the
Hello,
On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 11:36:45PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> Le samedi, 1 décembre 2018, 19.29:59 h CET Marc Haber a écrit :
> > This might sound like a stupid question, what will happen when a package
> > built on a usrmerged System will be installed on a non-usrmerged system?
On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 07:20:57PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> As a way to improve my understanding of the issue at hand, here's my current
> collection of data points regarding the "merged-/usr" question:
>
> * "merged-/usr" was enabled by default in debootstrap on June 13. 2018, some
Le samedi, 1 décembre 2018, 19.29:59 h CET Marc Haber a écrit :
> This might sound like a stupid question, what will happen when a package
> built on a usrmerged System will be installed on a non-usrmerged system?
FTR, I try to always assume that no question is stupid. Only answers can be.
My
Marc Haber writes:
> On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 07:20:57PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
>> * Currently, according to my `apt-file`, 259 binaries are shipped in /bin
>> directly, accross 85 packages. (for /sbin, 597 binaries for 190 packages).
>
> This might sound like a stupid question, what
On Sat, Dec 01, 2018 at 07:20:57PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> * Currently, according to my `apt-file`, 259 binaries are shipped in /bin
> directly, accross 85 packages. (for /sbin, 597 binaries for 190 packages).
This might sound like a stupid question, what will happen when a package
As a way to improve my understanding of the issue at hand, here's my current
collection of data points regarding the "merged-/usr" question:
* "merged-/usr" was enabled by default in debootstrap on June 13. 2018, some
5+ months ago. Any buster rootfs setup since has the /bin → /usr/bin
Ian Jackson wrote:
Obviously I disagree. I think the question is urgent. Please would
you rapidly overrule the debootstrap maintainers.
After we have ceased introducing new lossage we can have a proper
conversation about what the plan ought to be for buster and bullseye.
Well, please take
On 11/28/18 4:14 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Julien Cristau writes ("Re: Bug#914897: debootstrap, buster: Please disabled
> merged /usr by default"):
>> On 11/28/18 2:49 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> This is a special case of a general problem: buster systems with
Hello,
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 03:14:20PM +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Julien Cristau writes ("Re: Bug#914897: debootstrap, buster: Please disabled
> merged /usr by default"):
[...]
> > I'd suggest that this should be fixed by not shipping any packages that
>
Julien Cristau writes ("Re: Bug#914897: debootstrap, buster: Please disabled
merged /usr by default"):
> On 11/28/18 2:49 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > This is a special case of a general problem: buster systems with
> > merged-/usr sometimes build packages which are br
On 11/28/18 2:49 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Recently debootstrap was changed to do merged-/usr by default, so that
> /bin -> /usr/bin etc.
>
> It was discovered that when this change took effect on the Debian
> buildds, the buildds started to build packages which do not work on
> non-merged-/usr
ing the
number of buster installs in the field which generate packages which
are broken on non-merged-/usr systemss.
I filed this bug against debootstrap but its maintainers do not agree:
Julien Cristau writes ("Re: Bug#914897: debootstrap, buster: Please disabled
merged /usr by default"):
On 11/28/18 1:07 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Package: debootstrap
> Version: debootstrap/1.0.110
> Severity: serious
>
> Merged /usr is now the default in buster. As discussed on
> debian-devel, however, binary packages built on a merged-usr system
> are not installable on a non-merged-usr system.
Package: debootstrap
Version: debootstrap/1.0.110
Severity: serious
Merged /usr is now the default in buster. As discussed on
debian-devel, however, binary packages built on a merged-usr system
are not installable on a non-merged-usr system. I think we would like
ad hoc builds of packages from
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