Re: Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
I find that you use wrong debian-chinese-gb so I reply again to include correction debian-chinese-gb address. 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear Rex, [英文先寫的不過放在底下] [English below] 我認為你誤解了我原來的意思 讓我再用英文翻譯一次 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不習慣看簡體字跟我的個人喜好無關 還有 li xin 直接寄了一封郵件到我的郵件位址並沒有 CC 給 debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我認為 li xin 對我的態度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件並且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 還有 debian-chinese-gb 我並非是討厭簡體中文. 我只是討厭 li xin 單獨地寄了一封不友善的訊息給我. [開始寫英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 本文以英文撰寫，為了溝通方便，特翻譯成中文 四元, 我們理解你不愛讀簡體字，但是你的論述除了自私的表達自己的偏好外，並沒有 任何論點。更糟的是，你甚至在論壇上回應愚蠢的挑釁。那種行為對此議題毫無幫 助。請不要再犯。 我相信我們可以針對此議題達成共識。各位都有權提供你寶貴的意見到論壇上， 但是請明確表達你的訴求。至於那種宣告支持或反對的單行覆議，就請免了。 關於此議題 我認為目前的社群是不健康的。 我指的是我們在兩種編碼群體中，有幾位 Debian 開發者與貢獻者。他們大部分 都彼此認識，他們私底下對話、討論、工作並攜手解決問題。這種共事合作非常 好。但是，我鮮少看到公開的討論。 問題在於資訊沒有流通到社群的其他人 * 有些決議沒有尋求意見或審閱 * 某些決議過於偏頗，未能詢問另一編碼用戶意見以顧全大局。以至於難能建立 中文系統共用的基礎設計。 * 義工無法從私下對話中得到資訊，而分攤工作 (如偶發現即將發行，卻尚未翻 譯特定軟體) * 新加入者無法了解狀態，因為缺乏公開紀錄。 * 分散有限的資源，無所助益。 我可以列出一打該合併的理由。不過我可以馬上分享有一個最顯著的例子[1]。王 宗漢字型是一個台灣自由軟體相關研討會最重要的議題之一。這個問題在繁體中文 社群可以更輕易的被回答 (或找到人回答)，但是它被發佈在簡體論壇，因而被忽 視了。 這個問題可以透過合併論壇與雙方合作來避免。 1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/2008/05/msg00018.html - FourDollars, We understand that you DON'T LIKE to read Simplified Chinese, but your message does not make any point besides that you are so selfish for your preference. And you even respond to the stupid challenge on the list, that make this thread unproductive. Please don't do it again. I am sure we can have the general agreement on this issues. Anyone of you could submit your valuable opinion on the list, but please send it with meaningful arguments. Please stop express support or opposition to something someone else has already said. For the topic, I feel that we are currently have a unhealthy community. I meant that we have a few debian developers and contributors in two 'encodings' of group. And many of them know each others, they talk, discuss, work and solve problems with each other in private. Which can be good, because they work together. But, I rarely see they post the discussions on the list. The problem is the information is not passed to others in the community. * Some of the decisions are made without asking for review or ideas. * Some decisions are made without considering the overall situations, which we can not work out a general infrastructures for Chinese users. * People can not share the working loading, if the discussion is in private. Ex: No one translate the installer, before the new release. * New contributors can not follow the work, since the discussion is not archived. * Diversity of limited resources does not do any good. I can list dozen of reasons for merging the two list. But there is a obvious case[1] I can share with you. Hann-Tzong Wang's font is most active topic of open source conferences in Taiwan. The question is much easier to be answered by Taiwan users. But since it's post in debian-chinese-gb list, it can be just ignored. We can fix that by merging the list and work together. 1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/2008/05/msg00018.html best regards - -Rex http://people.debian.org.tw/~chihchun/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMwehOl4Wbdx2/rkRArAEAJ9bplFm/rfXm9bxhdQSBhE9Es65sACfZy/m eP92PADog30ikU8PH+ibQWM= =4pPB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, I can not see why it's not related to your personal preference, because you keep talking about your feelings and your own difficulties. Please tell me why and how your feeling is so important, so all the others have to separate the two lists to make you happy ? Will you be happy, if we or me setup an translation gateway to translate the messages into Traditional Chinese for you? Or we can port 同文堂 to icedove together, I believe it can be easily done with your skills. And are we doing some kind of group therapy here ? Why did you have to expressing your angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list ? If you feel better after all, could you please grow up and have mailing list etiquette ? regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Dear Rex, [英文先寫的不過放在底下] [English below] 我認為你誤解了我原來的意思 讓我再用英文翻譯一次 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不習慣看簡體字跟我的個人喜好無關 還有 li xin 直接寄了一封郵件到我的郵件位址並沒有 CC 給 debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我認為 li xin 對我的態度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件並且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 還有 debian-chinese-gb 我並非是討厭簡體中文. 我只是討厭 li xin 單獨地寄了一封不友善的訊息給我. [開始寫英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMx0pOl4Wbdx2/rkRAlq/AJ9R/9ez9OsbkltGZRTUE9M6w2dZjwCfR5K+ zLJwIXfL1P6yQXOCazwnV2A= =DXnG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[D-I Manual] Build log for zh_CN (20 May 2008)
A build of the Debian Installer Manual was triggered by an update to SVN.
There were no errors during the build process.
The new version of the manual has been uploaded successfully.
A log of the build is available at:
- http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/logs/zh_CN.log
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It is possible to use RSS to track changes to the manual.
For more information, see:
http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/manual/translators.html
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Note: PDF output is not yet supported for some languages; help
with this would be appreciated.
===
If you have any questions about the build or this message, feel
free to contact me at faw AT funlabs DOT org.
===
Updated files ('svn up')
Upo/zh_CN/random-bits.po
Upo/zh_CN/preseed.po
Upo/zh_CN/boot-installer.po
Updated to revision 53456.
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Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
FourDollars, I think you thought too much of it,about that unfriendly private email,it sounds to me just an unintentionally mistake.So let's drop it,back to the merging subject,ok? 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, I can not see why it's not related to your personal preference, because you keep talking about your feelings and your own difficulties. Please tell me why and how your feeling is so important, so all the others have to separate the two lists to make you happy ? Will you be happy, if we or me setup an translation gateway to translate the messages into Traditional Chinese for you? Or we can port 同文堂 to icedove together, I believe it can be easily done with your skills. And are we doing some kind of group therapy here ? Why did you have to expressing your angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list ? If you feel better after all, could you please grow up and have mailing list etiquette ? regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Dear Rex, [英文先��的不�^放在底下] [English below] 我�J�槟阏`解了我原�淼囊馑� ��我再用英文翻�g一次 小弟���T看繁�w字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在���x���w字上有困�y - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反��合�� - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不���T看���w字跟我的��人喜好�o�P ��有 li xin 直接寄了一封�]件到我的�]件位址�K�]有 CC �o debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我�J�� li xin �ξ业��B度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件�K且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 ��有 debian-chinese-gb 我�K非是���w中文. 我只是 li xin �为�地寄了一封不友善的��息�o我. [�_始��英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟���T看繁�w字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在���x���w字上有困�y - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反��合�� - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMx0pOl4Wbdx2/rkRAlq/AJ9R/9ez9OsbkltGZRTUE9M6w2dZjwCfR5K+ zLJwIXfL1P6yQXOCazwnV2A= =DXnG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
li ethan, Sure. :) 2008/5/21 li ethan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: FourDollars, I think you thought too much of it,about that unfriendly private email,it sounds to me just an unintentionally mistake.So let's drop it,back to the merging subject,ok? 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, I can not see why it's not related to your personal preference, because you keep talking about your feelings and your own difficulties. Please tell me why and how your feeling is so important, so all the others have to separate the two lists to make you happy ? Will you be happy, if we or me setup an translation gateway to translate the messages into Traditional Chinese for you? Or we can port 同文堂 to icedove together, I believe it can be easily done with your skills. And are we doing some kind of group therapy here ? Why did you have to expressing your angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list ? If you feel better after all, could you please grow up and have mailing list etiquette ? regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Dear Rex, [英文先寫的不過放在底下] [English below] 我認為你誤解了我原來的意思 讓我再用英文翻譯一次 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不習慣看簡體字跟我的個人喜好無關 還有 li xin 直接寄了一封郵件到我的郵件位址並沒有 CC 給 debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我認為 li xin 對我的態度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件並且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 還有 debian-chinese-gb 我並非是討厭簡體中文. 我只是討厭 li xin 單獨地寄了一封不友善的訊息給我. [開始寫英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMx0pOl4Wbdx2/rkRAlq/AJ9R/9ez9OsbkltGZRTUE9M6w2dZjwCfR5K+ zLJwIXfL1P6yQXOCazwnV2A= =DXnG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, You are repeating yourself. IIRC, the two lists were forwarding mail to each other about 4 or 5 years ago. And the mail system translate the messages into different 'encodings' for the users. It's because at that moment, linux leaks good Unicode support. It's not because people like you prefer to read messages in Simplified Chinese or Traditional Chinese. It's done for helping people communicate with each other. Now, we got better Unicode support. Which means we can discuss the issues in general encoding, and our software can read it. Unless you are still using mail reader in CLI. The advantage of merging two lists, is that we can discuss the two writing system in same encoding. And don't need to worry about the symbols you want to say is broken by the translation gateway. Regarding to the suggestion you provided. Yes, I am sure we can do that, even through it can be difficult to set up the gateway in Debian's mail server. regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIM6j7Ol4Wbdx2/rkRAurKAJ0WhjI3K3WltLB43VSWrfH6YXMifwCfXRhd RE+VhMou8+YtZ4q8LYSiwS0= =YCRl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
