On Sb, 28 apr 12, 19:12:42, Russ Allbery wrote:
There's nothing particularly wrong with Exim; it works just fine. It's
been the default in Debian for years, and it's actively maintained
upstream. And it's completely trivial to replace it with Postfix if one
desires. The disruption doesn't
On Sat, 2012-04-28 at 02:29 +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
OoO Vers la fin de l'après-midi du vendredi 27 avril 2012, vers 16:29,
Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com disait :
Apparently it can today ... with init scripts, which _new_ features will
be brought in for the _boot_ process.
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:05:06 +0300, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sb, 28 apr 12, 19:12:42, Russ Allbery wrote:
There's nothing particularly wrong with Exim; it works just fine.
It's
been the default in Debian for years, and it's actively maintained
upstream. And it's
On 04/27/2012 07:33 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] Martin Wuertele
* Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org [2012-04-27 09:53]:
Le jeudi 26 avril 2012 à 22:29 +0200, Svante Signell a écrit :
Yes of course, because event-driven init systems have *always* been
*only* about mounting USB devices.
On 04/27/2012 03:28 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Fri, 2012-04-27 at 08:55 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
On 04/27/12 03:32, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 08:08:01PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 02:03:17PM -0400, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
I believe Debian still
Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com writes:
So, the
real problem is: How do you define the boot process of a computer. For
me it is when the kernel has been loaded by the boot media, memory,
graphics card, etc initialized. Some modules are needed for boot, other
modules can be loaded
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Jan Dittberner ja...@debian.org
* Package name: python-cliff
Version : 0.4
Upstream Author : Doug Hellmann doug.hellm...@gmail.com
* URL : https://github.com/dreamhost/cliff
* License : Apache License 2.0
Programming
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:33:16PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
Isn't mounting filesystems, which can depend on the network, part of
the boot process?
Yes, but how do you check if the network is configured and operational?
- when the link is up?
- when the IP address is configured (how do you
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 14:59 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 04/27/2012 03:28 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Fri, 2012-04-27 at 08:55 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
On 04/27/12 03:32, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 08:08:01PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at
On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 08:39:41PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
On 12-04-28 at 01:50pm, Joey Hess wrote:
Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
As I understand the current status, it has already on this list been
resolved that *both* packages should back off from using the
clashing name node.
Stephan Seitz stse+deb...@fsing.rootsland.net writes:
Isn't mounting filesystems, which can depend on the network, part of
the boot process?
Yes, but how do you check if the network is configured and operational?
- when the link is up?
- when the IP address is configured (how do you check this
On Apr 29, Harald Jenny har...@a-little-linux-box.at wrote:
Wouldn't this solve the whole dilemma in a policy compliant and easy
enough fashion that it could be used or what error is there in my idea?
If fixing a real world problem requires so much overhead because of
policy concerns then it
On Apr 29, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
desires. The disruption doesn't seem worth it even if we had consensus
What kind of disruption are you thinking about?
--
ciao,
Marco
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
On 04/29/2012 04:11 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 14:59 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 04/27/2012 03:28 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Fri, 2012-04-27 at 08:55 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
On 04/27/12 03:32, Adam Borowski wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 08:08:01PM +0100, Ben
On 04/29/2012 04:18 PM, Miles Bader wrote:
Stephan Seitz stse+deb...@fsing.rootsland.net writes:
Isn't mounting filesystems, which can depend on the network, part of
the boot process?
Yes, but how do you check if the network is configured and operational?
- when the link is up?
- when the
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 04:23:25PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Apr 29, Harald Jenny har...@a-little-linux-box.at wrote:
Wouldn't this solve the whole dilemma in a policy compliant and easy
enough fashion that it could be used or what error is there in my idea?
If fixing a real world
On Apr 29, Harald Jenny har...@a-little-linux-box.at wrote:
Agreed but how long would it take to fix the policy vs how long would it
take to produce this package in the face of next stable release?
The current situation does not even cause any practical problems, just
a policy violation.
--
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 16:26 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 04/29/2012 04:11 PM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 14:59 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
On 04/27/2012 03:28 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Fri, 2012-04-27 at 08:55 +0800, Patrick Lauer wrote:
On 04/27/12 03:32, Adam
OoO En cette fin de matinée radieuse du dimanche 29 avril 2012, vers
11:25, Svante Signell svante.sign...@telia.com disait :
But that's the whole point : new hardware pops up while booting. See for
example a server that will need a 3G connection. The 3G connection will
be done by some
OoO Pendant le repas du samedi 28 avril 2012, vers 19:54, Thomas Goirand
z...@debian.org disait :
We are in 2012 and if a non-essential daemon blocks the boot (no working
network), we have no way to get a getty to be run.
I agree with the rest of your post, but here, you are are
picturing a
m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes:
On Apr 29, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
desires. The disruption doesn't seem worth it even if we had consensus
What kind of disruption are you thinking about?
Existing users who are familiar with Exim and who would get Postfix on a
new install and
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 09:58:14 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) writes:
On Apr 29, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
desires. The disruption doesn't seem worth it even if we had consensus
What kind of disruption are you thinking about?
Existing users who
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 07:03:11PM +0200, Julien Cristau wrote:
The 500 packages that would have to change their Depends from exim4 |
mta to something else.
The brokenness of having to have a default package hardcoded in
every virtual dependency rather than having a virtual defaults
package
Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.org writes:
The 500 packages that would have to change their Depends from exim4 |
mta to something else.
Well, it would be nice to change all of those to depend on default-mta |
mail-transport-agent anyway, but yeah. Making that low-priority change
urgent would
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012, Julien Cristau wrote:
The 500 packages that would have to change their Depends from exim4 |
mta to something else.
We're already on our way to update them with default-mta |
mail-transport-agent.
That would provide an incentive to finish converting the dependencies :-)
On Apr 29, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
What kind of disruption are you thinking about?
Existing users who are familiar with Exim and who would get Postfix on a
new install and be surprised.
This does not really look like a big surprise.
If somebody is familiar enough with Exim to
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 19:08:56 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012, Julien Cristau wrote:
The 500 packages that would have to change their Depends from exim4 |
mta to something else.
We're already on our way to update them with default-mta |
mail-transport-agent.
On a
On Apr 29, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
The giant endless flamewars on debian-devel required to make a decision to
change anything. :)
Unrelated: you have just shown what poisons Debian and has been keeping
us behind innovation for the last years.
Not the flamewars themselves, most of
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 07:16:18PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
The giant endless flamewars on debian-devel required to make a decision to
change anything. :)
IIRC, last time we discussed this I think that even the exim maintainers
were in favour of the change...
What were the reasons?
--
On 12831 March 1977, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Is this the right time to do it?
No.
It never will be.
It's insane to even think of switching one full featured MTA against
another full featured one. It feels like gosh, i dislike $onepiece,
lets all move to $differentpiece, though both are bad as
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 08:49:24AM +0200, Adrian Knoth wrote:
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 02:03:17PM -0400, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
I believe Debian still supports running locally compiled kernels which
do not depend on udev, and that some setups do not require udev either
(not everyone use
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 01:42:48PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
I'm going to investigate it in more detail on a running Gentoo system
and learn a bit more about it before doing anything. If anyone fancies
doing the packaging, I'll be happy to join in. I'll probably be able
to provide a better
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 03:59:03PM +0200, Stephan Seitz wrote:
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:33:16PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
Isn't mounting filesystems, which can depend on the network, part of
the boot process?
Yes, but how do you check if the network is configured and operational?
- when
Joerg Jaspert wrote:
It's insane to even think of switching one full featured MTA against
another full featured one. It feels like gosh, i dislike $onepiece,
lets all move to $differentpiece, though both are bad as default.
Yeah, Debian has certianly never done that before ..
(Remember smail?
On Apr 29, Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net wrote:
I hope I'm not alone in feeling quite uneasy about the implications
of the above.
We can all be uneasy about it until we are blue in the face, but since
Red Hat maintains most Linux core components and we do not, there is not
much we can do
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 20:19 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Apr 29, Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net wrote:
I hope I'm not alone in feeling quite uneasy about the implications
of the above.
We can all be uneasy about it until we are blue in the face, but since
Red Hat maintains most Linux
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 2:45 PM, Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net wrote:
One of the definining characteristics of the Linux ecosystem, including
Debian, has been that the system has been made up of a set of loosely-
coupled compoments with well-defined interfaces. This is in stark
contrast
Marco d'Itri wrote:
We can all be uneasy about it until we are blue in the face, but since
Red Hat maintains most Linux core components and we do not, there is not
much we can do about it.
I'll repeat what I said last time you made this (in my opinion
strange) argument:
Red Hat employs
Hello,
In line with the recent discussion, lets aim at defining what _boot_ is:
- initializing the RAM: yes
- initializing the CPU(s): yes
- loading the kernel: yes
- initializing the graphics card: yes for text mode, graphics mode can
come later
- initializing the HDD(s): yes, if boot devices.
-
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 08:19:44PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
On Apr 29, Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net wrote:
While sysvinit is clearly inferior, it gives us (Debian) something the
others do not: control over our own destiny, and the ability to
modify every aspect of it and the init
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 03:13 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Is this the right time to do it?
I'd vote for it :)
Or better said for depending on a default-mta which is going to be
postifx, as already outlined.
Cheers,
Chris.
smime.p7s
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Svante Signell wrote:
In line with the recent discussion, lets aim at defining what _boot_ is:
Why? Unless you are suggesting documentation is unclear, I don't see
how this has any impact on the development of Debian.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 09:51:37PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
Hello,
In line with the recent discussion, lets aim at defining what _boot_ is:
[...]
No, let's not. Beyond RAM, CPU, IRQ controllers and timers (all
of which are part of the kernel's early initialisation) pretty
much all of
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net wrote:
Keeping our options open, and evaluating what are options are
available and usable is important, and this is the principal reason
why I am interested in looking at OpenRC. It doesn't hurt to try it
out and see if it
* Joey Hess [2012-04-29 14:22 -0400]:
Joerg Jaspert wrote:
It's insane to even think of switching one full featured MTA against
another full featured one. It feels like gosh, i dislike $onepiece,
lets all move to $differentpiece, though both are bad as default.
Looks like the DragonFly
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thilo Uttendorfer deb...@uttendorfer.net
* Package name: logsurfer
Version : 1.8
Upstream Author : Kerry Thompson ke...@crypt.gen.nz
* URL : http://www.crypt.gen.nz/logsurfer/
* License : BSD
Programming Lang: C
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 21:52 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 09:51:37PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
Hello,
In line with the recent discussion, lets aim at defining what _boot_ is:
[...]
No, let's not. Beyond RAM, CPU, IRQ controllers and timers (all
of which are
On Apr 29, Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com wrote:
Red Hat employs some eminently friendly and reasonable people.
I am on friendly terms with many Red Hat people, but it is a fact that
they take design decisions which are aligned with the needs of RHEL
and these needs are often far from what
Roger Leigh wrote:
One of the definining characteristics of the Linux ecosystem, including
Debian, has been that the system has been made up of a set of loosely-
coupled compoments with well-defined interfaces. This is in stark
contrast to, e.g. Windows, MacOS and other proprietary systems,
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Thomas Mueller thomas.muel...@tmit.eu
* Package name: php-sabredav
Version : 1.6.2
Upstream Author : Evert Pot ev...@rooftopsolutions.nl
* URL : http://www.http://sabredav.org/
* License : BSD
Programming Lang: php
* Svante Signell [2012-04-29 21:51 +0200]:
In line with the recent discussion, lets aim at defining what _boot_ is:
I'm rather sure that he wants to define booting as part of what
currently is done in /etc/rcS.d. Configuring the network or mounting
non-essential remote file systems wouldn't be
Marco d'Itri wrote:
I am on friendly terms with many Red Hat people, but it is a fact that
they take design decisions which are aligned with the needs of RHEL
and these needs are often far from what is good for other distributions.
- configuration files in /etc/ overriding configuration
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 11:11:08PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 21:52 +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 09:51:37PM +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
Hello,
In line with the recent discussion, lets aim at defining what _boot_ is:
[...]
No,
On 30/04/2012 03:51, Svante Signell wrote:
- starting up the network: yes if network booting, other things can be
done later.
- starting an MTA: no
- staring sshd: no
On my remotely administered Debian server, these three are *definitely* part of
the boot process, and it's not network
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:50:45PM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
Looks like the DragonFly Mail Agent (dma), which already has been
mentioned in this thread, could become a decent default for Wheezy+1
after some small changes.
In a nutshell: it's able to deliver locally and remotely, has a queue,
Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl writes:
On Sun, Apr 29, 2012 at 10:50:45PM +0200, Carsten Hey wrote:
Looks like the DragonFly Mail Agent (dma), which already has been
mentioned in this thread, could become a decent default for Wheezy+1
after some small changes.
In a nutshell: it's able
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Alessio Treglia ales...@debian.org
* Package name: volti
Version : 0.2.3
Upstream Author : Milan Nikolic gen2br...@gmail.com
* URL : http://code.google.com/p/volti/
* License : GPL
Programming Lang: Python
Description
Le Thu, Mar 08, 2012 at 12:26:46AM +0900, Charles Plessy a écrit :
Thanks (and thanks Cyril) for the hint. Still there are two things
I do not understand:
- Why and when it is a problem to add preprocessor flags in CFLAGS.
- Why we chose the solution that require more extensive
Bernd Zeimetz be...@bzed.de writes:
Er, what? Please don't throw out silly strawmen...
Stephan's points are valid. Just having a link on your favourite cisco does
not
mean that you are allowed to send packets anywhere yet. Getting a ipv6 address
via radvd does not mean that you are able
]] Bernd Zeimetz
You actually want to start your iscsi stuff even your network is not
available right now - and you for sure don't want to stop it just
because the link flaps.
You need to wait for the right IP to become available so it can bind to
the right place. And why would you stop
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Urgency: low
Maintainer: Jan Hauke Rahm j...@debian.org
Changed-By: Thomas Goirand
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:26:32 +
Source: php-kolab-filter
Binary: php-kolab-filter
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Version: 0.1.9-4.1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Kolab Maintainers
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:17:42 +0200
Source: holotz-castle
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Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 1.3.14-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Games Team
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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 15:48:34 +0100
Source: monotone
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Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 1.0-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Maintainers for
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:19:36 +0200
Source: lintian4python
Binary: lintian4python
Architecture: source all
Version: 0+20120429
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Jakub Wilk jw...@debian.org
Changed-By: Jakub Wilk jw
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Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:59:36 +0200
Source: gcc-4.7
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:05:52 +0200
Source: dblatex
Binary: dblatex
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.3.3-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Andreas Hoenen andr...@hoenen-terstappen.de
Changed-By: Andreas Hoenen
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:55:16 +0200
Source: toonloop
Binary: toonloop
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 2.2.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Multimedia Maintainers
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:30:00 -0300
Source: darktable
Binary: darktable darktable-dbg
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.0.3-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian PhotoTools Maintainers
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:53:14 +0200
Source: diffutils
Binary: diffutils diffutils-doc
Architecture: source amd64 all
Version: 1:3.2-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Santiago Vila sanv...@debian.org
Changed-By:
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:25:03 +0200
Source: guitarix
Binary: guitarix
Architecture: source i386
Version: 0.22.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Roland Stigge sti...@antcom.de
Changed-By: Roland Stigge sti...@antcom.de
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:33:27 +0900
Source: mu-cite
Binary: mu-cite
Architecture: source all
Version: 8.1+0.20120227-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Tatsuya Kinoshita t...@debian.org
Changed-By: Tatsuya Kinoshita
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 14:40:06 +0200
Source: simutrans
Binary: simutrans simutrans-data simutrans-makeobj
Architecture: all amd64 source
Version: 111.2.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Games Team
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:11:01 +0200
Source: simutrans-pak64
Binary: simutrans-pak64
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Version: 111.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Games Team pkg-games-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 15:42:49 +0200
Source: clive
Binary: clive
Architecture: all source
Version: 2.3.3-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Debian Perl Group pkg-perl-maintain...@lists.alioth.debian.org
Changed-By: Ansgar
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:21:34 +
Source: einstein
Binary: einstein
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 2.0.dfsg.2-9
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bart Martens ba...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bart Martens
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Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 23:10:36 +0900
Source: select-xface
Binary: select-xface
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.15-6
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Tatsuya Kinoshita t...@debian.org
Changed-By: Tatsuya Kinoshita
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