-free) and only implements SSH1, which is probably not a good thing
to use anyways.
Do we have other ways to provide its functionality? I sometimes need
to log into my machine from net cafes, and even SSH1 is preferable to
telnet. :-/
--
Henning Makholm There were few families
Scripsit Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 03:55:56PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
[on dropping mindterm]
Do we have other ways to provide its functionality? I sometimes need
to log into my machine from net cafes, and even SSH1 is preferable to
telnet
Scripsit Roberto C. Sanchez
On Sat, Aug 20, 2005 at 03:55:56PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
[mindterm]
Do we have other ways to provide its functionality? I sometimes need
to log into my machine from net cafes, and even SSH1 is preferable to
telnet. :-/
Anyterm will be packaged any
.
--
Henning Makholm Hør, hvad er det egentlig
der ikke kan blive ved med at gå?
. Try
./configure --with-tclconfig=/usr/lib/tcl8.4
--
Henning Makholm This imposes the restriction on any
procedure statement that the kind and type
of each actual parameter be compatible
Scripsit Andrew Pollock
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 01:19:34AM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
Some of these packages have been orphaned, but have not yet had their
maintainer fields switched to QA.
There's only 30 odd packages currently listed at
http://qa.debian.org/orphaned.html, and I
Scripsit Marc Haber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
/usr/share/doc/aptitude/README is upstream's entire user manual in
text format. It contains a short section on how to get aptitude if
one does not have a .deb available. I think this is fair, but it is of
course
of the source package would have wider rights to reuse the pulic domain
files than to reuse the GPL-covered ones).
--
Henning MakholmAnything you can discover we
would be most happy to review.
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?
--
Henning Makholm Occam was a medieval old fart. The simplest
explanation that fits the facts is always, God did it.
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Scripsit W. Borgert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 02:18:39AM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
...a lot of wise things...
I have to agree. So how to proceed? File minor bugs against
README files, that contain predominantly useless information?
What other way would
with whitespace plus ./configure , but how reliable
is that?
--
Henning Makholm Wir kommen nun ans Ziel unserer Ausführungen.
-user without network runlevel really
relevant for even a significant minory of our users? How would those
multiple users interact with the machine?
Or does it mean single non-root user?
--
Henning Makholm Monarki, er ikke noget materielt ... Borger!
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Scripsit W. Borgert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 12:42:27PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
Yes - but how should Lintian detect it? Of course one could look for
lines that start with whitespace plus ./configure , but how reliable
is that?
Attached test found some culprits
Scripsit Timo Aaltonen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 15 Aug 2005, Henning Makholm wrote:
Given that it is very rare for machines these days to have banks of
local ttys attached, is a multi-user without network runlevel really
relevant for even a significant minory of our users? How would those
that documentation in the .deb has to be named README at
all.
--
Henning Makholm What has it got in its pocketses?
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will automagically add README to debian/docs
if it is found. That may not, in retrospect, be a wise idea.
--
Henning Makholm They discussed old Tommy Somebody and Jerry Someone Else.
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sounds like single user,
multitasking.
--
Henning Makholm ... not one has been remembered from the time
when the author studied freshman physics. Quite the
contrary: he merely remembers that such and such is true, and to
explain it he
(as the current package is not
debhelperized, and its handcrafted prerm script helpfully leaves the
symlink untouched when $1=upgrade :-/). Some of the others are still
in O state rather than ITA.
--
Henning MakholmWe can hope that this serious deficiency
in a .deb package are
different from the ones for a README in a tarball.
--
Henning MakholmThey want to be natural, the anti-social
little beasts. They just don't realize that
everyone's good depends on everyone's cooperation
Scripsit Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm wrote:
I agree that it *should* be a bug, but I cannot see that it officially
*has* been one for three years.
You're right. However, I think it's past time to change policy and make
it a bug.
Agreed.
--
Henning Makholm And here we
Scripsit Jeroen Vermeulen
On Thu, Aug 11, 2005 at 06:28:07PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
For us, taking the Debian parts out might be just as awkward.
I really doubt that. Could you explain which problems you see with
having a clear separation?
Don't put words into my mouth
have to do
the uploading yourself. Before this happens you will have to find a
sponsor to do it, and so you don't yet need to concern youself with
direct uploads.
Is this something that needs to be updated?
Not as far as I can see.
--
Henning MakholmDe kan rejse hid og did i verden
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Format: 1.7
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 16:59:05 +0200
Source: autotrace
Binary: libautotrace-dev libautotrace3 autotrace
Architecture: source i386
Version: 0.31.1-9
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Changed
name just to accommodate a newcomer.
OTOH, cogito is not in sarge; there are no prior user expectations
about what its command name should be.
--
Henning Makholm Punctuation, is? fun!
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Scripsit Jeroen Vermeulen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, Aug 10, 2005 at 01:00:59PM +0200, Henning Makholm wrote:
On the other hand integrating Debian's *packaging* infrastructure
(i.e., the debian/ subdirectory) in upstream source cannot be
recommended. It only creates trouble for developers when
to be referred to the
Technical Committee. There can be no circumventing this.
--
Henning Makholm Jeg mener, at der eksisterer et hemmeligt
selskab med forgreninger i hele verden, som
arbejder i det skjulte for at udsprede det rygte
in their Debian rules. Many
packagers by default try to touch the upstream makefiles as little as
possible, but that ought to be reversible if the upstream author
requests so.
--
Henning Makholm We will discuss your youth another time.
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am not convinced that it should be packaged separately until we have
applications that actually do something useful with the library.
--
Henning Makholm I tried whacking myself repeatedly
with the cluebat. Unfortunately
tempted to decide that bibtool-dev is just a waste of mirror
space and Packages.gz bandwidth. On the other hand, it might be
considered unethical to adopt a package only to kill off one of its
.debs.
Opinions solicited.
--
Henning Makholm Nett hier
further action by me?
The buildd is sick. Has happened for many packages. The buildd
operators will reschedule the failed builds once the problem is
believed to be fixed.
--
Henning Makholm Al lykken er i ét ord: Overvægtig!
a normal Google search without the I feel lucky redirect.
Essentially the address bar ends up doubling as a search box, as long
as one stays away from punctuation that Firefox thinks looks like part
of a real URL.
--
Henning Makholm Det er trolddom og terror
anyway.
It is at least conceivable for the postinst to actively store the
reply in an appropriate file in /etc which the postrm later reads.
Not that I think this would make much sense UI-wise anyhow.
--
Henning MakholmI have seen men with a *fraction
several minutes for a graph this size.
#print \tsplines=true;\n ;
print ;
} else {
print ;
}
}
--
Henning MakholmThey want to be natural, the anti-social
little beasts. They just don't realize
be
useful post-Vancouver for letting lesser architectures sneak #ifdef'ed
corrections into the stable source pool without risking functional
changes on the released architectures.
--
Henning Makholm De spiller på harpe og drikker øl.
Scripsit Mark Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 01:19:32AM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote:
Scripsit Mark Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One example: with our current package management tools once you've got
an apt source in your configuration the packages it provides will start
firmware as free.
--
Henning Makholm The spirits will have to knit like
banshees, but with enough spirits it *can* be done!
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Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri)
On Apr 02, Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm ok with (1), provided we do it in the non-free archive.
This does present certain logistical problems for producing installers.
Which ones?
The fact that they need these firmwares to work
Scripsit Wouter Verhelst
On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 02:39:57PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote:
The installer images in question would of course need to be
labeled as containing non-free components, but that hardly
constitutes a logistical problem that is worth worrying about
for long
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri)
On Apr 02, Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm ok with (1), provided we do it in the non-free archive.
This does present certain logistical problems for producing installers.
Which ones?
The fact that they need these firmwares
Scripsit Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Scripsit Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm ok with (1), provided we do it in the non-free archive.
This does present certain logistical problems for producing installers.
Which ones?
non-free isn't
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri)
On Apr 02, Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Where does it say that such images are not allowed?
At least current practice, and the build scripts not being able to do it.
The only thing that is necessary is to update the build scripts then.
I
Scripsit Mark Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, Apr 02, 2005 at 04:57:09PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote:
Scripsit Matthew Garrett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I've suggested before that creating a separate section for firmware may
be the best solution.
You have not described how that would differ from
name as well as the API identifiers will need be
changed to avoid trademark problems with Nike.
* License : Whatever you wish it is.
Have you cleared this with -legal? Usually licenses are not considered
Free if one needs to invoke wishful thinking to fit them to the DFSG.
--
Henning
Scripsit Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 05:37:02PM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
Do you have any arguments for this that do *not* basically reason
backwards from we want this stuff to be in main, freedoms or not?
Well, I would start with we want this stuff in main
Scripsit Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050326 00:55]:
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri)
And one of the reasons for which licensing for documentation has not
been discussed is that most people were not aware of the scope of the
editorial
Scripsit Paul Hedderly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, Mar 24, 2005 at 05:33:50PM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
Scripsit Paul Hedderly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What you are showing here is that code that can be compiled is not a
working defintion of source code.
It not only works, but has been used
to eternity; it will not
cause it to become true.
--
Henning Makholm Den nyttige hjemmedatamat er og forbliver en myte.
Generelt kan der ikke peges på databehandlingsopgaver af
en sådan størrelsesorden og af en karaktér, som berettiger
Scripsit David Moreno Garza [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Revolution is a little Ruby binding to the excellent Evolution email
client.
Is it so little that it would be better to include it with the
evolution package?
--
Henning Makholm Al lykken er i ét ord: Overvægtig!
.
What you are showing here is that code that can be compiled is not a
working defintion of source code.
--
Henning Makholm Logic is a system for talking about
propositions that can be true or false, or at least enjoy
properties
backwards from we want this stuff to be in main, freedoms or not?
--
Henning Makholm Occam was a medieval old fart. The simplest
explanation that fits the facts is always, God did it.
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example that is particularly troublesome is rwhod.
...
Is there some other, better solution to this problem?
Write a policy-rc.d script for the chroot that denies starting either
the particular demon or all demons in general.
zless /usr/share/doc/sysv-rc/README.policy-rc.d.gz
--
Henning Makholm
/daemon start
in its postinstall script to start that daemon.
As far as I'm aware it's a bug if a package has that in its postinst
rather than
invoke-rc.d daemon start
even though it is not yet mandatory policy. It is, however, strongly
recommended (§9.3.3.2).
--
Henning Makholm
. This
process does not open bugs in debbugs (for obvious reasons).
I still don't see why it is obvious not to pass the fix upstream
when one fixes a bug that upstream does not know about.
--
Henning Makholm It's just as meaningful to say that our
ancestors could
BTS?
If you have an honest question, I am happy to answer,
This is an honest question.
--
Henning Makholm It was intended to compile from some approximation to
the M-notation, but the M-notation was never fully defined,
because representing LISP functions
whining about unstable-only earlier
this week (with an outlying relapse yesterday - sorry, Anthony).
--
Henning Makholm Panic. Alarm. Incredulity.
*Thing* has not enough legs. Topple walk.
Fall over
Scripsit Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au
Henning Makholm wrote:
The question is whether the *porters* think they have a sufficiently
good reason to do the work of maintaining a separate testing-esque
suite. If the porters want to do the work they should be allowed to do
to build the
unmodified package.
--
Henning Makholm However, the fact that the utterance by
Epimenides of that false sentence could imply the
existence of some Cretan who is not a liar is rather unsettling.
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it make more sense for them to switch to maildir
instead of mbox? I wouldn't like to search for new mails in there.
Woah... deja vu.
--
Henning MakholmI ... I have to return some videos.
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actually have gained anything then?
--
Henning Makholm og de står om nissen Teddy Ring.
nor vice versa; yet they could still have much
source in common.
--
Henning Makholm Jeg skrællet har kartofler; min ene tommeltot
røg vistnok med i gryden. Jeg har det ellers got.
the work of maintaining a separate testing-esque
suite. If the porters want to do the work they should be allowed to do
it.
--
Henning Makholm We will discuss your youth another time.
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Scripsit Sven Luther [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 09:56:03PM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
An IRREGULAR architecture either does not make releases, or release
according to a schedule that does not match the REGULAR one. (One
possible instance of this is we'll try
sustain the load? If not, why not?
--
Henning Makholm Panic. Alarm. Incredulity.
*Thing* has not enough legs. Topple walk.
Fall over not. Why why why? What *is* it?
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, well, wait a few months and cross your fingers :).
And what if a secondary architecture does not want to lower themselves
to that standard.
--
Henning MakholmVi skal nok ikke begynde at undervise hinanden i
den store regnekunst her, men jeg vil foreslå, at vi fra
reason
why the solution has to include a ban on making any stable release for
a minor architecture at all.
--
Henning Makholm Hele toget raslede imens Sjælland fór forbi.
a good
option. Only it's a pity that the Vancouver plan does not allow it.
--
Henning Makholm However, the fact that the utterance by
Epimenides of that false sentence could imply the
existence of some Cretan who is not a liar is rather
?
--
Henning Makholm Slip den panserraket og læg
dig på jorden med ansigtet nedad!
Scripsit David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tuesday 15 March 2005 12:57, Henning Makholm wrote:
Scripsit Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This really makes unstable snapshotting, or building stable once it's
released as Anthony has also suggested in this thread, look like much
better
.
--
Henning Makholm Det er trolddom og terror
og jeg får en værre
ballade når jeg kommer hjem!
Scripsit David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tuesday 15 March 2005 17:08, Henning Makholm wrote:
Scripsit David Schmitt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If a arch can show that it is able to support a
high-quality-Debian-stable as we all know and love, it can be
promoted to tier-1.
Um, isn't
Scripsit Andreas Barth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Henning Makholm ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050315 12:45]:
Scripsit Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is there an underlying reason why the wanna-build management for all
architectures needs to happen on ftp-master?
For any architecture that builds
Scripsit Matthias Urlichs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi, Henning Makholm wrote:
Nothing's going to prevent porters from adding stable-security (or
whatever) to their autobuilders,
True - for as long as they do not try to upload the result to the
Debian archive, which will carry only unstable.
I do
the other end of the list. Then cycles
would only be wasted when the queue is nearly empty anyway.
--
Henning Makholm Man vælger jo selv sine forbilleder.
be allowed to have positions
in Debian?
--
Henning Makholm Occam was a medieval old fart. The simplest
explanation that fits the facts is always, God did it.
--
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exile (which it's
most definitely not)
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
--
Henning Makholm The great secret, known to internists and
learned early in marriage by internists' wives, but
still hidden from the general
Scripsit Stephen Gran [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This one time, at band camp, Henning Makholm said:
The announcement that actually got posted says that the only
architectures that will be allowed to have testing and eventually
stable after sarge releases will be i386, ia64, powerpc, and amd64.
All
Scripsit Bastian Blank [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 06:27:34PM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
How can something really be blocked by the w-b admins? The buildds
build .debs from publicly available source packages, don't they? They
upload to the upload queues that are avaiable
Scripsit Thiemo Seufer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm wrote:
If a DD has a machine with cpu cycles to spend on an architecture
that's lagging behind, what's to stop them from just beginning to
build packages and upload them?
It needs e.g. to take P-a-s into account, for example.
What
Scripsit David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 06:45:48PM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
Meaning that they are kicked out and told to start their own project
where they can take matters in their own hands. Just what they've
always wanted to do, I am sure.
It's not ideal
Scripsit Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 11:57:27AM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
Building stable once it is released does look indeed like a good
option. Only it's a pity that the Vancouver plan does not allow it.
There are lots of things not allowed by the plan
the necessary
| manpower to cover the daily operation of such additions.
That would not close the door on lesser architectures like the current
text does, and would still leave the main release and ftpmaster teams
to care about the main architectures only.
--
Henning Makholm
Scripsit David Nusinow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 07:37:25PM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
snip lots of circular discussion
Please point out what's circular about my discussion.
Your entire argument seems to hinge on one single thing:
unstable-only.
Yes, because
of
FOAD). I'm criticizing it because I hope that those in charge can be
convinced to changed their minds.
--
Henning MakholmAnd why should I talk slaves' and fools' talk? I
don't want him to live for ever, and I know that he's
not going to live
and improve the signal to noise
ratio.
Your wording is not on a level I would expect from a DD.
FWIW, Matthew just climbed at least one position on my DPL ballot.
--
Henning Makholm Jeg har tydeligt gjort opmærksom på, at man ved at
følge den vej kun bliver gennemsnitligt ca
terminology:
Widespread - utlanning
Narrowspread regular - framling
Irregular- ramen
Other unix-like OSes - varelse
Microsoft Windows- djur
)
--
Henning Makholm Jeg forstår mig på at anvende sådanne midler på
folks legemer, at jeg
Scripsit Marc Haber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:31:03 +, Henning Makholm
My job is keeping me from working on Debian as much as I'd like.
Should I resign as a DD?
You should resign from a job that only has a limited number of people
able to do it. As a random developer
Scripsit Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 11:54:24AM +, Henning Makholm wrote:
There is no visible reason why the solution has to include a ban on
making any stable release for a minor architecture at all.
The question is, if we're not going to be releasing
to use in deciding which packages to keep out.
A lesser architecture's concept of testing could just be, we're
trying our best to keep up with the package versions in the official
testing, regardless of bug counts.
--
Henning Makholm Jeg mener, at der eksisterer et hemmeligt
Scripsit Tollef Fog Heen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Henning Makholm
| When I provide a configure script in the source package it means, on
| the contrary, that I *have* tried it and therefore has some kind of
| evidence that it will probably work for other people too.
You have probably only tried
, and I mean
no offense. But I can see quite clearly that it would be difficult
for the security team or other groups to keep up with things growing
the way they are.
Sure. But effectively throwing people out in this manner ought not to
be the answer.
--
Henning Makholm
an architecture from providing stable packages.
--
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slå en sludder af med købmanden, puds dine støvler. Lev!
scripts in the source package.
--
Henning Makholm Larry wants to replicate all the time ... ah, no,
all I meant was that he likes to have a bang everywhere.
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a configure script in the source package it means, on
the contrary, that I *have* tried it and therefore has some kind of
evidence that it will probably work for other people too.
--
Henning Makholm That's okay. I'm hoping to convince the
millions of open-minded
be avoided by removing it.
I am not stupid enough to claim that this applies to all
build-dependencies, so I am not going to play strawman to the
rest of your argument.
--
Henning MakholmJeg køber intet af Sulla, og selv om uordenen griber
planmæssigt om sig, så er vi
by that?
--
Henning Makholm Det er du nok fandens ene om at
mene. For det ligger i Australien!
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Scripsit martin f krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I seem to recall the devel-reference or some similar document to
specifically address this issue, but I cannot find the location
anymore.
Are you thinking about /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README.Debian.gz?
--
Henning Makholm They discussed old
in Debian a bit more often.
Yes, but we shouldn't act as if it was a _freedom_ problem. It's a
_quality_ problem and should be treated as such, i.e. without invoking
the DFSG.
--
Henning Makholm The great secret, known to internists and
learned early
Scripsit John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm writes:
Yes, but we shouldn't act as if it was a _freedom_ problem.
If it was deliberately made bloody horribly ugly and painful in order to
make changing it difficult, it's a freedom problem.
True. But in that case I would not agree
Scripsit Nick Welch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From what I can gather, the license was developed through discussion on
OSI's mailing list, and in the end it was OSI who approved it.
That only goes to show that the OSI has finally lost every last bit of
sense they used to possess.
--
Henning Makholm
is normal/full multiuser
5 multiuser with xdm or equivalent
6 reboot
That seems awfully restrictive, only giving the local admin a single
runlevel to customize to his own needs.
--
Henning MakholmNej, hvor er vi altså heldige! Længe
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