Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

19 septembre 2022 23:19 "Bill Allombert" a écrit: > Le Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 07:13:30AM +0200, Gioele Barabucci a écrit : > >> On 18/08/22 21:18, Gioele Barabucci wrote: >> Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic >> changelog trimming in binary packages? >> >> Hi, >>

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Le Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 07:13:30AM +0200, Gioele Barabucci a écrit : > On 18/08/22 21:18, Gioele Barabucci wrote: > > Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic > > changelog trimming in binary packages? > > Hi, > > a couple of weeks since the initial email (thanks

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 10:40:28AM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > > > > On 14 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 03:09:07PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > >> Yes, you’re right. However, my reservation is whether dpkg is more prone to > >> breaking in

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

* Hakan Bayındır [220914 03:41]: > > > > On 14 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 03:09:07PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > >> Yes, you’re right. However, my reservation is whether dpkg is more prone to > >> breaking in disaster recovery scenarios.

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

> On 14 Sep 2022, at 10:37, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 03:09:07PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: >> Yes, you’re right. However, my reservation is whether dpkg is more prone to >> breaking in disaster recovery scenarios. Reading a gzipped file is always >> simpler than

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 03:09:07PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > Yes, you’re right. However, my reservation is whether dpkg is more prone to > breaking in disaster recovery scenarios. Reading a gzipped file is always > simpler than querying a DB via more abstraction. Honestly though, the way to

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 03:09:07PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > Stuffing them behind a command, possibly making them online only in the > process will arguably make system troubleshooting and administration > harder, > esp. if the system has connectivity issues. > >

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

> On 11 Sep 2022, at 14:59, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 02:41:24PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: >>> On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some reservations against

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Sun, Sep 11, 2022 at 02:41:24PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > >> While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some > >> reservations against treating changelogs as metadata. > >> > >> Current changelogs as

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Hi Andrey, > On 6 Sep 2022, at 12:42, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: >> While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some >> reservations against treating changelogs as metadata. >> >> Current changelogs as files

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On 06/09/22 11:42, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: Stuffing them behind a command, possibly making them online only in the process will arguably make system troubleshooting and administration harder, esp. if the system has connectivity

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On 06/09/22 10:25, Paul Wise wrote: On Tue, 2022-09-06 at 07:13 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: * Packages not meant to be included in Debian (and without access to a changelog server): Creators that want to preserve the full history can use the `--no-trim` option to disable the trimming.

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Paul Wise: On Tue, 2022-09-06 at 07:13 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: * Packages not meant to be included in Debian (and without access to a changelog server): Creators that want to preserve the full history can use the `--no-trim` option to disable the trimming. Most derivatives aren't

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Tue, Sep 06, 2022 at 12:11:38PM +0300, Hakan Bayındır wrote: > While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some > reservations against treating changelogs as metadata. > > Current changelogs as files have a well known place, can be used by anything > and everything, and they

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Hello all, While all looks good and feels sound from many aspects, I have some reservations against treating changelogs as metadata. Current changelogs as files have a well known place, can be used by anything and everything, and they are local. Stuffing them behind a command, possibly

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Tue, 2022-09-06 at 07:13 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: > * Packages not meant to be included in Debian (and without access to a > changelog server): Creators that want to preserve the full history can > use the `--no-trim` option to disable the trimming. Most derivatives aren't going to

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On 18/08/22 21:18, Gioele Barabucci wrote: Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic changelog trimming in binary packages? Hi, a couple of weeks since the initial email (thanks everybody for the input), my reading is that there is now consensus in going ahead with

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 11:44:03AM +, Bastien Roucariès wrote: > Le jeudi 18 août 2022, 19:18:35 UTC Gioele Barabucci a écrit : > > Hello, > > > > in 2020 there was a brief discussion on debian-devel@ about trimming > > changelogs [1,2]. > > > > Now there is a working implementation of said

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Hello, On Fri 19 Aug 2022 at 11:44AM GMT, Bastien Roucariès wrote: > > Le jeudi 18 août 2022, 19:18:35 UTC Gioele Barabucci a écrit : >> Hello, >> >> in 2020 there was a brief discussion on debian-devel@ about trimming >> changelogs [1,2]. >> >> Now there is a working implementation of said

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Le jeudi 18 août 2022, 19:18:35 UTC Gioele Barabucci a écrit : > Hello, > > in 2020 there was a brief discussion on debian-devel@ about trimming > changelogs [1,2]. > > Now there is a working implementation of said functionality in > `dh_installchangelogs` [3]. Could you stress on the mapage

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 12:44 +0200, Philip Hands wrote: > Ansgar writes: > > >  - Having to spawn an external command ("dpkg --show-changelog") just > >    to access a file is more complicated. > > The fact that it currently needs to dug out of the main data archive > rather than the control

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Michael Biebl writes: > Am 19.08.22 um 10:35 schrieb Philip Hands: >> Paul Wise writes: >> >>> On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: >>> Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic changelog trimming in binary packages? >>> >>> Before we

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Ansgar writes: > - Having to spawn an external command ("dpkg --show-changelog") just >to access a file is more complicated. The fact that it currently needs to dug out of the main data archive rather than the control archive to show the user changes at install time seemed like a decent

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 09:01:22AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > Before we consider enabling this by default, first we need a way for > `apt changelog` to download the full changelog rather than loading the > changelog from /usr/share/doc in the currently installed package. You can tell apt to ignore

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On 19/08/22 11:31, Michael Biebl wrote: I guess this could be solved by dpkg creating symlinks from the "master copy" which is per-source to /usr/share/doc/$binpkg/ Maybe the "master copy" could be in `/usr/share/doc/src:$pkg/`? /usr/share/doc/openssh-{client,server}/X →

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 09:06 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: > If we turn on changelog trimming by default, we should probably also > turn on apt downloading the changelogs by default. I think the default apt behaviour should be as it is now, show the installed changelog (with the footer suggested

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Am 19.08.22 um 10:42 schrieb Ansgar: On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 10:35 +0200, Philip Hands wrote: P.S. BTW the change Guillem suggests seems like a good idea anyway:    treating changelogs as control files. I'm interested: why? What makes Debian's changelog different from other documentation

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Am 19.08.22 um 10:35 schrieb Philip Hands: Paul Wise writes: On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic changelog trimming in binary packages? Before we consider enabling this by default, first we need a

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On 19/08/22 10:35, Philip Hands wrote: How about making the end of the trimmed file be a standard footer including a hint about how one can get hold of the rest of the changelog, and then have `apt changelog` look out for that footer in the local copies in order to know that they've been

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Fri, 2022-08-19 at 10:35 +0200, Philip Hands wrote: > P.S. BTW the change Guillem suggests seems like a good idea anyway: >    treating changelogs as control files. I'm interested: why? What makes Debian's changelog different from other documentation such as the upstream changelog,

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Paul Wise writes: > On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: > >> Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic >> changelog trimming in binary packages? > > Before we consider enabling this by default, first we need a way for > `apt changelog` to

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Il 19/08/2022 09:43, julien.pu...@gmail.com ha scritto: Le vendredi 19 août 2022 à 09:04 +0200, Fabio Fantoni a écrit : Il 19/08/2022 03:01, Paul Wise ha scritto: On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Am 19.08.22 um 09:04 schrieb Fabio Fantoni: I also use many times the changelog view on packages.debian.org, it show the full changelog from source and will still show the full changelog? Correct. The changelogs linked from packages.debian.org are from

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Le vendredi 19 août 2022 à 09:04 +0200, Fabio Fantoni a écrit : > Il 19/08/2022 03:01, Paul Wise ha scritto: > > On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: > > > > > Does anybody have objective objections against activating > > > automatic > > > changelog trimming in binary

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Il 19/08/2022 03:01, Paul Wise ha scritto: On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic changelog trimming in binary packages? Before we consider enabling this by default, first we need a way for `apt changelog`

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Fri, 19 Aug 2022 00:46:21 +0200, Guillem Jover wrote: My objections from that time still stand: I would also like to highlight David Kalnischkies reply: Dear

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Hi Paul Am 19.08.22 um 03:01 schrieb Paul Wise: On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic changelog trimming in binary packages? Before we consider enabling this by default, first we need a way for `apt

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: > Does anybody have objective objections against activating automatic > changelog trimming in binary packages? Before we consider enabling this by default, first we need a way for `apt changelog` to download the full changelog rather

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Hi! On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18:35 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: > in 2020 there was a brief discussion on debian-devel@ about trimming > changelogs [1,2]. My objections from that time still stand: I would also like to highlight

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

On Thu, 2022-08-18 at 21:18 +0200, Gioele Barabucci wrote: > * The `--no-trim` option allows package maintainers that want to ship > the whole changelog a way to do so. > > * The full changelogs are preserved in the source packages and thus > available via `apt changelog` and similar

Re: Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Hi Gioele, thanks for working on this! Am 18.08.22 um 21:18 schrieb Gioele Barabucci: Hello, in 2020 there was a brief discussion on debian-devel@ about trimming changelogs [1,2]. Now there is a working implementation of said functionality in `dh_installchangelogs` [3]. This

Automatic trimming of changelogs in binary packages

Hello, in 2020 there was a brief discussion on debian-devel@ about trimming changelogs [1,2]. Now there is a working implementation of said functionality in `dh_installchangelogs` [3]. This implementation, combined with the evolution of the apt/dpkg ecosystem that happened in the