Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-23 Thread Frank Küster
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Q1.1) Are GFDL licensed works without invariant texts non-free? Well, according to the RM team, and some developers (full disclosure: myself included), yes, they are, even if there is no explicit infraction of specific portions of our

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-23 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 03:42:39PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: And what? If someone tries to bring through a GR stating that MS office warez can be distributed in main since it meets the DFSG, one might rule that as frivolous and a waste of time. I'm not convinced the

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-23 Thread Steve Langasek
On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 12:40:30PM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote: On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 03:42:39PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: And what? If someone tries to bring through a GR stating that MS office warez can be distributed in main since it meets the DFSG, one might rule

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Thijs Kinkhorst
On Sat, January 21, 2006 21:52, Manoj Srivastava wrote: So, can the developers dispute this? Obviously, the developer body can dispute any delegated action. But a GR can't overturn something seen as fact (so no GR stating PI=exacly 3.14 or 22/7). Could you please explain how you arrive at the

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
2006/1/22, Thijs Kinkhorst [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This goes even further here, because the DFSG is not even a strict set of rules but are guidelines. As we all know, guidelines are subject to interpretation on a case-by-case basis, that's what distinguishes them from rules. Therefore, I think a

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Benjamin Seidenberg
Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: 2006/1/22, Thijs Kinkhorst [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This goes even further here, because the DFSG is not even a strict set of rules but are guidelines. As we all know, guidelines are subject to interpretation on a case-by-case basis, that's what distinguishes them

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:25:58 +0100, David N Welton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:59:15 +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 1. debian-legal is wrong, the GFDL is compatable with the DFSG and thus should be included in main.

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:48:05 +0100 (CET), Thijs Kinkhorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sat, January 21, 2006 21:52, Manoj Srivastava wrote: So, can the developers dispute this? Obviously, the developer body can dispute any delegated action. But a GR can't overturn something seen as fact (so

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:59:15 +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 1. debian-legal is wrong, the GFDL is compatable with the DFSG and thus should be included in main. Looking over the arguments for and against it in -legal, I am trying to ascertain if this stance

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:36:05 -0300, Margarita Manterola [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On 1/21/06, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I am seeking arguments and guidance from the developer body whether issue 1 can, and should, be decidable by a general resolution, or whether the

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Wesley J. Landaker
On Sunday 22 January 2006 11:59, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:21:13 -0700, Wesley J Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Saturday 21 January 2006 13:52, Manoj Srivastava wrote: So, I am seeking arguments and guidance from the developer body whether issue 1 can, and should,

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Bill Allombert
On Sat, Jan 21, 2006 at 02:52:01PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I am, at this point, unclear whether I hold GFDL licensed works without invariant texts non-free as a matter of opinion, or of fact. Fact 1: The GFDL include this: You may not use technical measures to obstruct or

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread David N. Welton
Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:59:15 +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 1. debian-legal is wrong, the GFDL is compatable with the DFSG and thus should be included in main. Looking over the arguments for and against it in -legal, I am

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:21:13 -0700, Wesley J Landaker [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Saturday 21 January 2006 13:52, Manoj Srivastava wrote: So, I am seeking arguments and guidance from the developer body whether issue 1 can, and should, be decidable by a general resolution, or whether the

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Thijs Kinkhorst
On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 10:57 -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: If you do not see closed source software as incontrovertibly non-free, I have no desire to discuss this issue with you. You are exaggerating my point into ridicule. Under some (extreme) viewpoints, there are no facts (you, sir,

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Steve Langasek
On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 12:53:00PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:25:58 +0100, David N Welton [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:59:15 +0100, Martijn van Oosterhout [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 1. debian-legal is wrong, the GFDL is

Re: For those who care about the GR

2006-01-22 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sun, Jan 22, 2006 at 12:53:00PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: And what? If someone tries to bring through a GR stating that MS office warez can be distributed in main since it meets the DFSG, one might rule that as frivolous and a waste of time. One answer to this would be to let

For those who care about the GR

2006-01-21 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 17:26:12 +1000, Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au said: Why should it be a separate GR? That's seems both unnecessary and a bad idea; what's the point in overriding decisions about the GFDL, if it is then declared non-free anyway? Well, here is one view of how