bootlogd.
Activating swap.
fsck 1.35-WIP (01-Aug-2003)
Running 0dns-down to make sure resolv.conf is ok...done.
Please contribute if you find this software useful.
DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 5
Starting Xprint servers: Xprt.
If the
* Alan Shutko
| Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
|
| Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
| responding to is participating right here.
|
| Maybe you should stop whining and just set the Mail-Copies-To header,
| which is generally respected by posters
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:15:59PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:38:19 +0200
Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Apple has a great way of doing that. They don't dumb down, they don't
belittle you, they assume an intelligent being who can grasp reasonably
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:06:53PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
* Emile van Bergen
| Hi,
|
| On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
|
| And I would scream if you called it /_My_ Variable Data/ too... :-P
|
| I would even scream at
|
| /Variable Data/
Am 6.08.03 um 13:04:41 schrieb Emile van Bergen:
Tab completion or using /Va* is about as fast as /var.
I've considered tab-completion and /Va*, but you must realise that they
work only in the shell.
Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
and have to write
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:34:49 +0200
Michael Piefel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Am 6.08.03 um 13:04:41 schrieb Emile van Bergen:
Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
and have to write those path names.
In Vim insert mode, press ^X^F for completion, ^N/^P to
Michael Piefel wrote:
Am 6.08.03 um 13:04:41 schrieb Emile van Bergen:
Tab completion or using /Va* is about as fast as /var.
I've considered tab-completion and /Va*, but you must realise that they
work only in the shell.
Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
and
Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:06:53PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
* Emile van Bergen
| Hi,
|
| On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
|
| And I would scream if you called it /_My_ Variable Data/ too... :-P
|
|
Hi, Emile van Bergen wrote:
I would even scream at
/Variable Data/
simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
behaviour
/VaTAB isn't too bad, typing-wise, especially if you also have a
case-insensitive file system.
Apple's OS X translates the pathnames in the GUI
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
Or perhaps the poster should know the policy on Debian lists which is
_not_ to Cc unless explicitly requested.
Noted. I was unaware of this, having not seen any mention of this policy
when I subscribed.
My apologies for any inconvenience caused.
--
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:38:19 +0200,
Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You know, I think these are actually good suggestions. I think there's a
lot to be gained *not* by dumbing down, *not* by losing any information
that might be useful to a geek or to a new user as (s)he's learning, but
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:55:59AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
I receieved the machine with Debian preinstalled and no offline
documentation except a post it note with the root username and password.
On other systems (Mac OS X, Windows XP, etc) I am clearly shown where to
look for more
* Ian Hickson
| On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
|
| Or perhaps the poster should know the policy on Debian lists which is
| _not_ to Cc unless explicitly requested.
|
| Noted. I was unaware of this, having not seen any mention of this policy
| when I subscribed.
Yo!
Em Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:13:44 -0500, Gunnar Wolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu:
I completely agree with you... I was arguing with a friend of mine, a
Ximian developer. He insisted me that they were bringing Unix to the
desktop of people, just like what Apple did. I insst that is *not* what
On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 01:40:41AM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
Admittedly, I've seen some less than useful messages on boot (mostly
overly generic messages where I couldn't figure out what part of
the system could possibly be producing them). Still, most of the
messages are really
Michael Piefel dijo [Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 01:34:49PM +0200]:
Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
and have to write those path names.
In Vim insert mode, press ^X^F for completion, ^N/^P to choose among
many. Also, in GTK+, file selector boxes allow for
Hey guys,
I was amused to see my blog post [1] made it to this list. I figured
I'd clarify a few points which were omitted from that blog in the
interests of brevity and humour.
Mike Hommey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unfortunately, his main problem is Having not used Debian for about
8 years.
On Tuesday 05 August 2003 10:33, Ian Hickson wrote:
Hey guys,
I was amused to see my blog post [1] made it to this list. I figured
I'd clarify a few points which were omitted from that blog in the
interests of brevity and humour.
Mike Hommey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Unfortunately, his
I think Debian's package system is remarkably nice. Unfortunately,
it's UI leaves a lot to be desired. The biggest problem is probably
the package names: freetype, pango, libgtk2.0, etc, mean
absolutely nothing to me, as a user, and I really shouldn't ever have
to even see these packages.
Frederik Rousseau [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I really think aptitude should only show end user packages with
decent, readable, localised names (Apache Web Server, x Chat (IRC
Client), Infrared Control for XMMS). At the moment the user is
completely overwhelmed by the list of packages, which is
On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 15:04, David Z Maze wrote:
I don't think we need to abandon the power of our current
infrastructure, just have ways of making it less visible for people
who don't want it.
Just a random off-the-wall idea, but *maybe* there could be a new
package tag added which means that
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 01:33:19AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
Part of the problem I had was that I had a vague understanding that
there was something called apt, but that I didn't know what it was
or how to do anything with it. The man page said to see apt-get's;
apt-get's man page suggested
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 01:33:19AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
Part of the problem I had was that I had a vague understanding that
there was something called apt, but that I didn't know what it was
or how to do anything with it. The man page said to
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Note that, if for some reason the user knew about the command
apropos, even that wouldn't help him -- none of dselect, aptitude,
and apt-get come up for apropos install or apropos setup.
I do believe they are
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 08:14:23AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 01:33:19AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
Part of the problem I had was that I had a vague understanding that
there was something called apt, but that I didn't know
Em Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:49:17 +0200, Frederik Rousseau [EMAIL PROTECTED]
escreveu:
Anyway, does this mean we need something like a GNU/Linux Debian and a
GNU/Linux Debian For Dummies showing only icons?
Yes, I think so... Debian-Desktop should be that, probably. I would like
to see a package
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Steve Lamb wrote:
Note that, if for some reason the user knew about the command
apropos, even that wouldn't help him -- none of dselect, aptitude,
and apt-get come up for apropos install or apropos setup.
I do believe they are mentioned several times in the manual.
I agree with every word
There are lot's of packages to do Debian more user friendly, they are
available at install time and after by running tasksel.
Maybe the problem was the way that Debian was pre-installed I
think they only installed base. This isn't suitable for a user. Maybe
if
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Colin Watson wrote:
The term dselect means nothing to me. It isn't a usable name. That's
another example of the problem I mentioned.
Tools have names, and they don't really have to be generic. I think it's
quite acceptable for the installation manual to tell you the names
On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 12:33:18AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
was heard to say:
I think Debian's package system is remarkably nice. Unfortunately,
it's UI leaves a lot to be desired. The biggest problem is probably
Which UI did you use? We have a few. apt-get is not an
On Tuesday 05 August 2003 18:55, Ian Hickson wrote:
Without meaning offense, that is a very selfish attitude. The number of
future debian users is *significantly* larger than the number of existing
users, unless something drastic happens to either humanity or debian
itself. Why should everyone
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:55:59AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
[SNIP]
Why can't we instead have nice friendly messages? e.g.:
Startup logging has begun. Log will be stored in '/var/log/boot'.
...instead of bootlogd.
[SNIP]
Error messages are there for people who know what they
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
And I would scream if you called it /_My_ Variable Data/ too... :-P
I would even scream at
/Variable Data/
simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
behaviour, because such path names are impossible to
Debian should not change its attitude or methods to meet the end
user's needs. Think of Debian as a the painter's palette. All of the
tools you need are available to you. It installs a base system and you
customize from there. Would I recommend Debian for John Doe user? As a
base raw install
* Emile van Bergen
| Hi,
|
| On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
|
| And I would scream if you called it /_My_ Variable Data/ too... :-P
|
| I would even scream at
|
| /Variable Data/
|
| simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
|
Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Steve Lamb wrote:
Note that, if for some reason the user knew about the command
apropos, even that wouldn't help him -- none of dselect, aptitude,
and apt-get come up for apropos install or apropos setup.
I do believe they are
Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
responding to is participating right here.
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Steve Lamb wrote:
What manual?
I rest my case.
I receieved the machine with
First off, error messages can always be improved, and I bet the program
maintainers would be happy to accept patches, so long as those patches
don't *decrease* the amount of information available.
But in one area you're dead wrong:
On 05-Aug-03, 11:55 (CDT), Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:06:53PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
Tab completion or using /Va* is about as fast as /var.
Heh, teach yourself to type /Va* and you're going to get BURNED one day.
(Your co-sysadmin finds a rootkit on another machine and stores it
in /Various Dangerous Programs/ for
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:38:19 +0200
Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Apple has a great way of doing that. They don't dumb down, they don't
belittle you, they assume an intelligent being who can grasp reasonably
complex English sentences, but who has less knowledge of computer
idiom.
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:16:37 +0200
Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I would even scream at
/Variable Data/
simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
behaviour, because such path names are impossible to type in (and this
one even requires escaping the space
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:03:54PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And I'm a geek, one who has been using GNU-based distributions on multiple
machines on a daily basis for at least 3 years, and Sun for 6 years before
Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
responding to is participating right here.
Maybe you should stop whining and just set the Mail-Copies-To header,
which is generally respected by posters on Debian lists?
--
Alan
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:30:11 +0100
Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hixie's pretty well-known in certain other free software circles. What
I've seen of him elsewhere implies to me that he isn't incompetent in
the least, and frankly I think you're going way overboard in the
hostility of
Richard Braakman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Heh, teach yourself to type /Va* and you're going to get BURNED one day.
(Your co-sysadmin finds a rootkit on another machine and stores it
in /Various Dangerous Programs/ for later examination...)
And gee, your shell beeps, completes up to /Various\
Em Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:39:06 -0500, Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu:
Richard Braakman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Heh, teach yourself to type /Va* and you're going to get BURNED one day.
(Your co-sysadmin finds a rootkit on another machine and stores it
in /Various Dangerous
Em Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Ian Hickson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
escreveu:
You can't get there from here, I think. Unix admins coming to Debian
will scream blue murder if it starts being /My Variable Data/Logs, and
that group is important to us.
Note that there is at least one
Gustavo Noronha Silva dijo [Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:26:20PM -0300]:
Note that there is at least one project which is looking at doing exactly
that while retaining backwards compatability (GoboLinux). It may be worth,
on the long term, looking at how it may be possible to migrate from
Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Steve Lamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
responding to is participating right here.
Maybe you should stop whining and just set the Mail-Copies-To header,
which is generally respected
Hello,
I just found this, maybe auseful read
http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1060025253count=1
--
Nikolai Prokoschenko
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Monday 04 August 2003 23:12, Nikolai Prokoschenko wrote:
Hello,
I just found this, maybe auseful read
http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1060025253count=1
Unfortunately, his main problem is Having not used Debian for about 8 years.
The strange thing is that he has been able to apt-get install
On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 22:12, Nikolai Prokoschenko wrote:
I just found this, maybe auseful read
http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1060025253count=1
I used apt-get to get aptitude. I fired up aptitude.
The writer is obviously a moron if he did this with such ease and it
never occured to him he
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 12:11:44AM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
And another thing : it seems that the pre-installed Debian he got was
configured with both testing/unstable in the sources.list file. Pinning is
not the easiest thing to catch when you are (alone) beginner with Debian...
It's also
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