On 15/10/14 23:01, Adam Borowski wrote:
shim doesn't appear to work, at least for me. To get basic functionality
like shutdown from GUI, suspend or mounting USB drives, I needed to
downgrade the whole Utopia stack to their last working versions.
Out of interest, what's the bug number?
--
To
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:29:11AM +0200, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
lee:
I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst
the users (here).
We don't do a GR among our users. We do that among Debian
members/maintainers/developers/take-your-pick.
Of those, most
[ answered on -user only ]
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On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk wrote:
On 15/10/14 23:01, Adam Borowski wrote:
shim doesn't appear to work, at least for me. To get basic functionality
like shutdown from GUI, suspend or mounting USB drives, I needed to
downgrade the whole Utopia stack to
On 10/14/2014 at 04:15 PM, Olav Vitters wrote:
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 06:18:01PM +0200, lee wrote:
Considering that the users are Debians' priority, couldn't this
issue be a case in which significant concerns from/of the users
about an issue might initiate a GR? Wouldn't it speak loudly
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Joey Hess wrote:
Only thing I don't understand is why so few votes for systemd-shim out
of the group who has it installed.
Maybe noatime? That’s probably popular on desktops. “vote” does
not really say much, anyway.
bye,
//mirabilos
--
Sometimes they [people] care too
Thorsten Glaser wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Joey Hess wrote:
Only thing I don't understand is why so few votes for systemd-shim out
of the group who has it installed.
Maybe noatime? That’s probably popular on desktops. “vote” does
not really say much, anyway.
I doubt noatime has been
On Wed, Oct 15, 2014 at 01:49:43PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
Thorsten Glaser wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Joey Hess wrote:
Only thing I don't understand is why so few votes for systemd-shim out
of the group who has it installed.
Maybe noatime? That’s probably popular on desktops.
Le mardi, 14 octobre 2014, 01.13:48 Wookey a écrit :
I'm just pointing out that interested people, who are moderately
well-involved, really did miss that a GR was attempted.
For the record, I don't disagree; I'm just saying that the GR call was
on the right list and that I think that the
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes (Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)):
Le mardi, 14 octobre 2014, 01.13:48 Wookey a écrit :
I'm just pointing out that interested people, who are moderately
well-involved, really did miss that a GR was attempted.
For the record, I don't disagree; I'm just
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 11:11:35AM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
I think in future we should probably make a habit of posting something
to d-d-a when there is a GR proposal.
Yep, liw made the same point on -project in response to a thread I started
there on this subject. I still feel we don't
On 10/13/2014 at 01:01 PM, Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to
remain on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should
also turn out
Which, I should add, is
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014, Ian Jackson wrote:
I think in future we should probably make a habit of posting something
to d-d-a when there is a GR proposal.
If the proposer thinks posting to d-d-a is a good idea, then they should
just do it. Any DD can, after all.
They should ideally point out the
Hi,
The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm writes:
Unfortunately, not everyone - or even everyone who would be willing to
provide such feedback, or even actively interested in doing so - is
going to install that.
Luckily, popcon is opt-in anyway, so this has no effect whatsoever on
it's quality as
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 06:18:01PM +0200, lee wrote:
Considering that the users are Debians' priority, couldn't this issue be
a case in which significant concerns from/of the users about an issue
might initiate a GR? Wouldn't it speak loudly for Debian and its ways
and for what it stands for,
Hi,
lee:
I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst
the users (here).
We don't do a GR among our users. We do that among Debian
members/maintainers/developers/take-your-pick.
Of those, most …
* are perfectly happy with the TC's decision
* can live with it
* are
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
lee:
I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst
the users (here).
We don't do a GR among our users. We do that among Debian
members/maintainers/developers/take-your-pick.
Which does kind of lead back to the question of what's the point
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Those who are most impacted are sys admins of servers, and upstream developers
I’m both, and I joined Debian to try to make an impact…
- the two communities most impacted, but that seem to have no say in the
matter.
… but even then, am drowned by
Le Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 02:21:45PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser a écrit :
… but even then, am drowned by the masses.
No, you are drowning the masses under your emails, that is different.
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Charles
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 14:21:45 +0200
Thorsten Glaser t...@mirbsd.de wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Those who are most impacted are sys admins of servers, and upstream
developers
I’m both, and I joined Debian to try to make an impact…
- the two communities most
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Neil Williams wrote:
(I did not have the chance to Second the GR proposal
because I was not even aware that there *was* one.)
https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/
Same procedure as previous calls for GR: debian-vote mailing list. If
Yeah, surprise, I don’t read
Hi,
Miles Fidelman:
Judging by the last couple of months, the rest appears to number 6 people.
A lot more than that, by my count.
Then the question is why almost all of these lot more people did not
second the GR proposal.
Those who are most impacted are sys admins of servers, and
Matthias Urlichs wrote:
Hi,
Miles Fidelman:
Judging by the last couple of months, the rest appears to number 6 people.
A lot more than that, by my count.
Then the question is why almost all of these lot more people did not
second the GR proposal.
Well... as a couple of people have now
Miles Fidelman writes (Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)):
In reading through the archives, I have to say that the GR proposal was
both buried in all the broader discussion of systemd, rather long and
convoluted reading, and not well publicized.
If four other DDs send me and Matthew
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
belonged. The people who cared about the whole default init for Debian
question _were_
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
belonged. The people who cared about the whole default init
2014-10-13 18:23 GMT+02:00 Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net:
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Which, I should add, is something we measure if the user installs
popularity-contest and opts-in to
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Which, I should add, is something we measure if the user
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Miles Fidelman wrote:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Which, I should add,
Hi,
[ Please followup on -user@, there is no need to have this on two
lists. ]
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
http://popcon.debian.org/
which sure seems to reinforce the popularity of sysvinit
18sysvinit
At Mon, 13 Oct 2014 13:23:16 -0400,
Miles Fidelman wrote:
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014, Matthias Urlichs wrote:
In any case, users _do_ have a say. They can force their systems to remain
on sys5 init, or switch to a different distro if that should also turn out
Le lundi, 13 octobre 2014, 12.23:00 Miles Fidelman a écrit :
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet
to be noticed by 6+ people.
Actually - I'd contest that, for four reasons:
- as I've previously noted - the major impacts of
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net writes:
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:
Right now it is the defaults effect, because Debian stable is included in
the report. We don't have a testing + unstable report.
Yes we do: sysvinit-core systemd-sysv systemd-shim
Joey Hess jo...@debian.org writes:
Yes we do: sysvinit-core systemd-sysv systemd-shim
https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=sysvinit-core+systemd-sysv+systemd-shimshow_installed=onshow_vote=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1
[...]
+++ Didier 'OdyX' Raboud [2014-10-13 17:33 +0200]:
I really don't buy the argument that the GR proposal was too quiet to
be noticed by 6+ people. I mean: the proposition happened to be in the
middle of the post-TC decision wave, on the mailing lists where it
belonged. The people who cared
Philip Hands writes (Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)):
I'm completely astonished that Ian is willing to suggest that four more
people pledging support for it at this stage would be enough for him to
attempt CPR on its putrid corpse.
You put me in an awkward position. My email
Joey Hess wrote:
A small percentage of server users are avoiding swiching to systemd,
although that group looks to still be shrinking somewhat.
Of course, not many people use unstable/testing for servers, so we don't
really know much from popcon yet about whether server admins will go for
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org writes:
The tech-ctte exploration was extremely thorough, entirely transparent and I
cannot think of any example of a more transparent decision making process in
any other Linux community. Not only that, but the entire decision could be
overridden by a GR,
[Moving this to -project, where it belongs; please follow up only
there, not on -user or -devel.]
On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 06:18:01PM +0200, lee wrote:
Why doesn't Debian just do a GR on this issue?
Because for a GR, a member of Debian has to request it and it needs to
be seconded by at least 5
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