Accepted gv 1:3.7.4-3 (source amd64) into experimental

2019-03-09 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2019 19:36:40 +0100
Source: gv
Binary: gv gv-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1:3.7.4-3
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 gv - PostScript and PDF viewer for X
Closes: 729618 824745 902141 924028
Changes:
 gv (1:3.7.4-3) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * also register application/postscript in gv.mime (Closes: #902141)
   * cherry-pick commits from unreleased upstream:
   - Fix crash in zoom.c (Closes: #824745)
   - Do not segfault on buggy postscript files (Closes: #729618, #924028)
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Accepted xtrace 1.4.0-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2019-02-25 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 11:12:54 +0100
Source: xtrace
Binary: xtrace xtrace-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.4.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 xtrace - trace communication between X client and server
Closes: 797174 797175 797176 797177
Changes:
 xtrace (1.4.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new maintenance release
   - add some bugfix and many new definitions
 (Closes: #797174, #797175, #797176, #797177)
   * switch to newer debhelper, dpkg helper scripts
   * drop obsolete homepage, vcs-*, watch information
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Accepted git-dpm 0.10.0-1 (source all) into unstable

2019-02-09 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2019 13:33:53 +0100
Source: git-dpm
Binary: git-dpm
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.10.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 git-dpm- git Debian package manager
Changes:
 git-dpm (0.10.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new version
   - add support to record .asc files and storing them in pristine-tar
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Accepted reprepro 5.3.0-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2019-02-02 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2019 23:20:17 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro reprepro-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 5.3.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Closes: 920377
Changes:
 reprepro (5.3.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new release
   - handle .changes files without Binary field (Closes: #920377)
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Accepted ratpoison 1.4.9-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2019-02-02 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 21:26:47 +0100
Source: ratpoison
Binary: ratpoison ratpoison-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.4.9-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 ratpoison  - keyboard-only window manager
Closes: 776766
Changes:
 ratpoison (1.4.9-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new upstream release
   - switch from xinerama to xrandr (Closes: #776766)
   * switch to debhelper compat level 10
   * use hardening=+all
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Accepted xwit 3.4-16 (source amd64) into unstable

2019-01-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 20:40:53 +0100
Source: xwit
Binary: xwit xwit-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 3.4-16
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 xwit   - collection of simple routines to call some X11 functions
Changes:
 xwit (3.4-16) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * update Debian packaging
   - remove outdated Vcs- fields
   - clear watch file as source no longer available
   - use hardening=+all
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Accepted git-dpm 0.9.2-1 (source all) into unstable

2019-01-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 18:24:52 +0100
Source: git-dpm
Binary: git-dpm
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.9.2-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 git-dpm- git Debian package manager
Closes: 795694
Changes:
 git-dpm (0.9.2-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new bugfix version
   - don't set GREP_OPTIONS (Closes: 795694)
   * bump Standards-Version
   * switch to debhelper 12
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Accepted wm2 4+svn20090216-4 (source amd64) into unstable

2019-01-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 20:08:55 +0100
Source: wm2
Binary: wm2 wm2-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4+svn20090216-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 wm2- small, unconfigurable window manager
Changes:
 wm2 (4+svn20090216-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * modernize debian packaging
   - use dpkg includes, set hardening=+all
   - debhelper compatibility level up to 12
   - remove outdated Vcs headers
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Accepted gv 1:3.7.4-2 (source amd64) into unstable

2019-01-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 19:09:22 +0100
Source: gv
Binary: gv gv-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1:3.7.4-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 gv - PostScript and PDF viewer for X
Changes:
 gv (1:3.7.4-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * bump Standards-Version
   * remove outdated Vcs- fields
   * set harding=+all, unconditionally use dpkg-buildflags
   * switch to debhelper 12
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Accepted inoticoming 0.2.3-2 (source amd64) into unstable

2019-01-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 17:39:34 +0100
Source: inoticoming
Binary: inoticoming inoticoming-dbgsym
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.2.3-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 inoticoming - trigger actions when files hit an incoming directory
Changes:
 inoticoming (0.2.3-2) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new maintenance upload
   - increase debhelper compatibility level to 10
   - add hardening=+all
   - bump Standards-Version
   - drop outdated Vcs- fields, watch file
   - move frome extra to optional
   - drop suggests of reprepro
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Accepted reprepro 5.2.0-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2018-08-26 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 16:47:54 +0200
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 5.2.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link 
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link 
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Closes: 852309 854480 856403 857303 860740 866905 881405 895045 904124 906804
Changes:
 reprepro (5.2.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * update Standards-Version
   * update VCS headers
   * remove Homepage and debian/watch (Closes: #904124, #906804)
   * remove debian/upstream/ directory to avoid lintian warning
   * new release
   - add support for .asc files in source packages (Closes: #854480)
   - add _listcodenames command (Closes: #857303)
   - Signed-By header can be set (Closes: #856403)
   - drop header from contents files (Closes: #881405)
   - multiple manpage fixes (Closes: #895045, #852309, #866905, #860740)
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Accepted reprepro 5.1.1-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2016-12-28 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 16:49:06 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 5.1.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Changes:
 reprepro (5.1.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new bugfix release
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Accepted reprepro 5.1.0-1 (source amd64) into experimental

2016-12-23 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2016 10:43:39 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 5.1.0-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Closes: 789608 809785 820460 820462 827749 827947 847103
Changes:
 reprepro (5.1.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * new release
   - change changelogs.example to be less verbose (Closes: #827947)
   - fix (Deb|Dsc)Indices without a Release filename (Closes: #820460)
   - document --ask-passphrase vs current gnupg (Closes: #789608)
   - document --export=silent-never (Closes: #820462)
   - add unferencesnapshot and _removereference commands (Closes: #827749)
   - builtin .gz, .bzip2, .xz uncompressors support concatenated files
 (Closes: #847103)
   * clean old bash_completions.d/reprepro conffile (Closes: #809785)
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Accepted reprepro 5.0.0-1 (source amd64) into experimental

2016-12-21 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2016 21:22:52 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 5.0.0-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Closes: 843402
Changes:
 reprepro (5.0.0-1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * new release
   - drop support for apt-methods of squeeze and before
   - some code-refactoring (to prepare for future changes)
   - add support for .buildinfo in .changes files (Closes: #843402)
   * change debhelper compatibility level to 9
   * remove jessie gnupg2 depencency workarounds
   * change build-dependency from libgpgme11-dev to libgpgme-dev
   * enable hardening compiler flags, drop support for ancient dpkg-dev
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Accepted libnss-extrausers 0.6-4 (source amd64) into unstable

2016-12-21 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2016 16:08:15 +0200
Source: libnss-extrausers
Binary: libnss-extrausers
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.6-4
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QA Group <packa...@qa.debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 libnss-extrausers - nss module to have an additional passwd, shadow and group 
file
Changes:
 libnss-extrausers (0.6-4) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * orphan package
   * apply some patches from Philipp Hahn
   * move git repository to collab-maint
   * replace ldconfig call with a trigger
   * switch debian/compat to 9
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Accepted reprepro 4.17.1-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2016-05-08 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2016 15:18:57 +0200
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.17.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Changes:
 reprepro (4.17.1-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new bugfix release
   - fix bug in 'flood' command and output of 'warning' in FilterList
   - fix some spelling mistakes
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Accepted bls-standalone 0.20151231 (source amd64) into unstable, unstable

2016-01-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 13:35:21 +0100
Source: bls-standalone
Binary: bls-standalone
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 0.20151231
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 bls-standalone - standalone build log scanner
Changes:
 bls-standalone (0.20151231) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * Initial release.
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Accepted ratpoison 1.4.8-2 (source amd64) into unstable

2015-12-30 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 15:19:17 +0100
Source: ratpoison
Binary: ratpoison
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.4.8-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 ratpoison  - keyboard-only window manager
Changes:
 ratpoison (1.4.8-2) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * install ratpoison.py and ratpoison.rb bindings in the proper paths so they
 are found again.
   * switch to debhelper compat level 9
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Accepted reprepro 4.17.0-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2015-12-28 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2015 13:20:02 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.17.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link <brl...@debian.org>
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Closes: 781258 783129 784024 788351 803481 808558
Changes:
 reprepro (4.17.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new release
   - some manpage fixes (Closes: #784024, #803481)
   - add support for -dbgsym packages (Closes: #808558)
   - allow comments in filterlists (Closes: #781258)
   - fix parsing of strangly formated control files (Closes: #783129)
   - add Exportoptions: noexport option in conf/distributions (Closes: #788351)
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Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable code?

2015-02-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk [150227 16:39]:
 Bernhard R. Link writes (Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable 
 code?):
  Compare that to the straightforward case of just building a dynamic
  instead of a static library with some simple:
 
 No-one is proposing that shared libraries should not be built, and
 used, when possible.  We are only discussing here the case where
 building a shared library is not feasible for some reason.
 
 The most common reason is that the shared library has no stable ABI:
 that is, upstream make API changes willy-nilly.  In that case ...
 
  printf 'LIBFOO_0.'$REVISION' {\n global:\n   *\n};\n'  foo.map
  gcc --shared -Wl,--version-script=foo.map -Wl,--soname 
  libfoo.so.0.${REVSION} -o libfoo.so.0.${REVSION} ...
  ln -s libfoo.so.0.${REVSION} libfoo.so
 
 ... this approach will lead to ABI-change-related breakage.

How do you think this can lead to breakage that your suggestion to merge
the static library into the dynamic library using it can not?


 Where only a static library is provided, it should be built _with_
 -fPIC unless it is expected never to be included in any shared object
 (which is probably hard to predict, but I guess there might be cases
 where the maintainer might know).

If you change that to unless it is expected to never be
included in any shared object correctly. you get the current policy.
Because I can hardly think of a shared library for which that is not
expected.

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable code?

2015-02-26 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk [150224 18:51]:
 Right.  I think that the right answer to this, in these cases, is
 either to use an explicit symbol export file or to adjust the link
 command lines.

adjust the link command lines ? That's like saying the mine field
is safe because people will know which way through it is safe (at least
the second time they pass).

Creating multiple copies by creating shared libraries that merge
the static library in so that might end up multiple times in the same
library, and in a way they leak those implementation and might override
even things in programs linking against that library is at best a gross
hack, at worst a disaster waiting to happen.


explicit symbol export file
While this might be possibly avoid problems, it is quite a hard thing to
do. As there needs to be the default to hide everything (unless you
assume a library author incapabable of managing a ABI on the one hand
but able to properly make all symbols match some easy pattern) you
need an explicit whitelist one what you export from the merged library.


And in both cases you still have the problem that you have object code
copies in other packages, including all the problems like the need to
keep multiple source versions around, security updates being quite a
hassle, needing more memory if that code ends up in multiple libraries
and so on. (Not to speak of all the other problems of static libraries,
like breaking the versioning of symbols used from other libraries and
stuff like that).

Compare that to the straightforward case of just building a dynamic
instead of a static library with some simple:
printf 'LIBFOO_0.'$REVISION' {\n global:\n   *\n};\n'  foo.map
gcc --shared -Wl,--version-script=foo.map -Wl,--soname libfoo.so.0.${REVSION} 
-o libfoo.so.0.${REVSION} ...
ln -s libfoo.so.0.${REVSION} libfoo.so

which also gives you all the advantages of not having needlessly
multiple copies of the same version of the compile code around
and get all the other goodies (like automatic tracking where it is
used and which what version and being able to do a security update
without recompiling anything but that library).


So I really do not see what advantage in that case PIC code in the .a
file has, while not having it there avoids many possible mistakes.


Bernhard R. Link
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Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable code?

2015-02-24 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk [150224 15:50]:
  You still pollute the ABI with the details of the internals:
  
  if you try to change main.c to:
  #include stdio.h
  #include foo1.h
  #include bar2.h
  int main() {
double rr1;
foo(rr1);
int r1 = rr1;
int r2 = bar2();
printf(%d %d\n, r1, r2);
return 0;
  }
  
  and run gcc -Wall main.c -L. -lbar2 -lfoo1 ; LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ./a.out
  you get:
  foo2: 0x7f42db6f0a48
  foo2: 0x7f42db6f0a48
  0 17
  
  (In this specific case a version script might helps, but I'd not bet
  on helping in all cases).
 
 I don't know what exactly you ran.  Your transcript is not complete
 and I don't get the same results.  I suspect you didn't pass
 -Bsymbolic everywhere.
 
 I changed main.c to contain the code you just showed, and reran by
 ./build script (same as before), and got this:
[...]
 
 (64)ian@zealot:~$ ./build
 + egrep . bar.c bar1.c bar1.h bar2.c bar2.h foo.c foo1.c foo1.h foo2.c foo2.h 
 main.c t.c build
 [...]
 main.c:#include stdio.h
 main.c:#include foo1.h
 main.c:#include bar2.h
 main.c:int main() {
 main.c:  double rr1;
 main.c:  foo(rr1);
 main.c:  int r1 = rr1;
 main.c:  int r2 = bar2();
 main.c:  printf(%d %d\n, r1, r2);
 main.c:  return 0;
 main.c:}
 [...]
 + gcc -Wall main.c -L. -lbar1 -lbar2

You forgot to change that line as I said to change it.

main.c now uses libfoo1 and libbar2, so in my example I build against
those.  Now you only need a bit of bad luck to use -lbar2 -lfoo1 in
that order and you get the problem. -Bsymbolic only helps against bar
being poluted.  It does not help against libbar polluting the main
program. (For this you need at least something like symbol versioning
to hide the symbols).

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Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable code?

2015-02-23 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk [150223 20:09]:
 Bernhard R. Link writes (Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable 
 code?):
  Jeff Epler jep...@unpythonic.net [150220 00:19]:
* libbar has a stable API, so it should be shipped as a .so,
  but if it links libfoo.a, and libfoo.a is not -fPIC, then
  libbar has to be shipped as a a static library too
 
 Jeff is correct.
  
  This is wrong. If libbar.so needs libfoo.a then libfoo.a does not
  need to be PIC:
  
  echo 'int foo(void) {return 17;}'  foo.c
  echo 'int bar(void) {return foo();}'  bar.c
  echo 'int main() {return bar();}'  main.c
  gcc -c -Wall foo.c
  ar rs libfoo.a foo.o
  gcc -shared -fPIC -Wall bar.c -o bar.so
  gcc -Wall main.c -L. -lbar -lfoo
  ./a.out
  echo $?
  
  works just fine.
 
 Did you actually try this before posting ?

Oh, I copied the wrong lines from the backlog here. It seems they
were a bit to trivial so autocorrection made me miss them reading over
them.

 Furthermore, as Simon Richter points out, this happens to work only
 because 1. your foo.c happens not to contain any data references, and

Data references work fine, too:

echo 'extern int val; void foo(int s) {val=s;}' 
echo 'int val = 2; void foo(int s) {val=s;}'  foo.c
echo 'extern int val;int bar(void) {return val;}' 
gcc -c -Wall foo.c
ar rs libfoo.a foo.o
gcc -shared -fPIC -Wall bar.c -o libbar.so
echo 'int main() {foo(17);return bar();}'  main.c
gcc -Wall main.c -L. -lbar -lfoo
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ./a.out
echo $?

 2. your construction of bar.so (should be libbar.so) produces a shared
 library with unresolved references to libfoo, which is not usual or
 desirable.

Using a static library is undesirable. Unresolved symbols is just the
way dependencies of libraries works. The only thing missing here is
the missing dependency on the static library. But that is simply not
possible with static libraries.

 (In particular, this would vitiate libbar's stable
 API/ABI.)

This you have to explain.

If you think there is another way a dynamic library can use a static
library please tell so.

 (64)ian@zealot:~$ echo 'int x=17; int foo(void){ return x; }' foo.c
 (64)ian@zealot:~$ echo 'int bar(void) {return foo();}'  bar.c
 (64)ian@zealot:~$ echo 'int main() {return bar();}'  main.c
 (64)ian@zealot:~$ gcc -c -Wall foo.c
 (64)ian@zealot:~$ ar rs libfoo.a foo.o
 (64)ian@zealot:~$ gcc -shared -fPIC -Wall bar.c -L. -lfoo -o libbar.so
 bar.c: In function ?bar?:
 bar.c:1:1: warning: implicit declaration of function ?foo?
 [-Wimplicit-function-declaration]
 /usr/bin/ld: ./libfoo.a(foo.o): relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against
 symbol `x' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with
 -fPIC
 /usr/bin/ld: final link failed: Bad value
 collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status

What you do here is creating a dynamic library that merges the contents
of foo and bar. This is totally broken. If anything else uses the same
static library you get multiple symbols. If there versions differ that
means harvoc. With data parts you may end up with multiple versions.

There are only two possibilities:

You want a static library, then the static library has to be linked into
the executeable directly.

You foo within a dynamic library. Then instead of creating a dynamic
library that includes foo you can just as well create dynamic libfoo.so
and link against that.

   * foomodule is a Python wrapper for libfoo, so it must be shipped
  as a .so, but if it links libfoo.a, and libfoo.a is not -fPIC,
  it is not possible to build foomodule at all
 
  That is indeed the case. Note that simply compiling it with -fPIC might
  not be enough here. As you need to include the actual library in the
  module, this might mean you might end up with multiple copies of the
  library, which might also mean multiple copies of any data it has or
  with different versions of the same library in the same executeable
  (and you cannot really have symbol versioning with a static library).

 That not usually a problem.  Providing that only the relevant symbols
 are exported from the .so, the executable simply results in multiple
 completely independent copies of the static library.

Your example above misses that.

echo int foo(void) {return 7;}  foo1.c
echo int foo(void) {return 13;}  foo2.c
echo 'int bar(void) {return foo();}'  bar.c
echo 'int main() {return bar();}'  main.c
gcc -c foo1.c
gcc -c foo2.c
gcc -fPIC -c foo1.c
rm libfoo.a
ar rs libfoo.a foo1.o
gcc -shared -o libbar.so -fPIC bar.c -L. -lfoo
gcc foo2.c main.c -L. -lbar
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. ./a.out 
echo $?

gives 13

Also note that you cannot avoid exporting symbols totally.
The above example you can avoid with a linker script, like:

printf 'LIBBAR_1.0 {\n global:\n  bar*;\n local:\n  *;\n};\n' libbar.map
and then give -Wl,--version-script=libbar.map


 
 See transcript below.  In my example foo[12].[ch] represents a library
 with an unstable API/ABI, provided as a static library only.  Note
 that it has symbols `x

Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable code?

2015-02-23 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Simon Richter s...@debian.org [150222 21:19]:
 Am 22.02.2015 um 20:18 schrieb Bernhard R. Link:
 
  echo 'int foo(void) {return 17;}'  foo.c
 
 This code just happens to not generate any data references, so none of
 the forbidden reloc types are emitted.

You can add references here. As I do not merge it into a dynamic object,
it does not make any difference, though.

(Also data references is a bit misleading, as data references and code 
references
do not really make a difference.

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable code?

2015-02-23 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Russ Allbery r...@debian.org [150222 21:51]:
 Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org writes:
 
  This is wrong. If libbar.so needs libfoo.a then libfoo.a does not
  need to be PIC:
 
  echo 'int foo(void) {return 17;}'  foo.c
  echo 'int bar(void) {return foo();}'  bar.c
  echo 'int main() {return bar();}'  main.c
  gcc -c -Wall foo.c
  ar rs libfoo.a foo.o
  gcc -shared -fPIC -Wall bar.c -o bar.so
  gcc -Wall main.c -L. -lbar -lfoo
  ./a.out
  echo $?
 
  works just fine.
 
 It won't with something more complex on all architectures.  I think there
 are architectures (i386, maybe?) where you can link non-PIC code into a
 shared library with a performance penalty, and (as mentioned by another)
 it doesn't matter for code where there's no difference between PIC and
 non-PIC.  But this will definitely break on some architectures (including
 amd64, IIRC).
 
 There's been lots of discussion of this on the Libtool list, and I've had
 to deal with this from time to time in various upstream projects where I
 wanted to assemble a shared library from various internal helper
 libraries.  Take a look at all the work that Libtool does to handle
 convenience libraries for exactly this reason.

You are speaking about linking .a helper libraries into a shared object.
I'm about the case that a shared library has a dependency on a different
static library instead.

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: Should .a library contains non-reallocatable code?

2015-02-22 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Jeff Epler jep...@unpythonic.net [150220 00:19]:
 Here are two scenarios where building a static library (libfoo) with
 -fPIC is desirable:

  * libbar has a stable API, so it should be shipped as a .so,
but if it links libfoo.a, and libfoo.a is not -fPIC, then
libbar has to be shipped as a a static library too


This is wrong. If libbar.so needs libfoo.a then libfoo.a does not
need to be PIC:

echo 'int foo(void) {return 17;}'  foo.c
echo 'int bar(void) {return foo();}'  bar.c
echo 'int main() {return bar();}'  main.c
gcc -c -Wall foo.c
ar rs libfoo.a foo.o
gcc -shared -fPIC -Wall bar.c -o bar.so
gcc -Wall main.c -L. -lbar -lfoo
./a.out
echo $?

works just fine.


  * foomodule is a Python wrapper for libfoo, so it must be shipped
as a .so, but if it links libfoo.a, and libfoo.a is not -fPIC,
it is not possible to build foomodule at all

That is indeed the case. Note that simply compiling it with -fPIC might
not be enough here. As you need to include the actual library in the
module, this might mean you might end up with multiple copies of the
library, which might also mean multiple copies of any data it has or
with different versions of the same library in the same executeable
(and you cannot really have symbol versioning with a static library).

(If the wrapper is nor for the library itself (but only a library used
by that) this makes it quite dangerous. On the other hand it is a
wrapper for a library depending on an other yet-too-immature-to-have-a-.so
library, so it's quite safe to assume it is so experimental having a
python wrapper makes not much sense anyway.
If the python wrapper is for the library, than an _pic.a only is needed
if that wrapper is not generated by the same source package).

 Unless the circumstances of libfoo make these scenarios unlikely, it
 seems like it is better for other packages to prefer -fPIC even when
 building a static library.

 I wonder whether these scenarios were considered when the Policy was
 written.

Static libraries have many serious drawbacks (there are copies in many
programs, so every fix needs a recompile-orgy, multiple copies waste
more RAM, no built-in inter-library-dependencies, ...) and since then
even gotten more (headers if libraries the .a uses (like libc, ...) are
used at compile time, but they are only attached to symbol versions once
the .a in linked into something, so they might not match the headers,
...) since then.

Once something is actually used by other things it is really a good
idea to provide a dynamic library. (And conversely, if something is
not yet able to provide a dynamic library, this is a very good point
to be made against including anything using it).

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: Architectures where unaligned access is (not) OK?

2014-11-21 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Simon McVittie s...@debian.org [141121 13:42]:
 A couple of questions for people who know low-level things:

 * Of Debian's architectures (official and otherwise), which ones are
   known/defined/designed to be OK with unaligned accesses from
   user-space, and which ones (can be configured to) crash or give wrong
   answers?
[...]
 The ones I know for sure are:

 - OK: any-i386, any-amd64

Are you sure about those, especially amd64? AFAIK some newer
instructions (I think something about vector code) have much tighter
requirements than the old 80386 modus operandi of everything might be 
unaligned,
it is just slower then).

 The context is that
 https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=757037 describes lzo2
 failing to start up on armel due to unaligned memory accesses. lzo2 has
 a cpp macro, LZO_CFG_NO_UNALIGNED which can be defined to stop it doing
 clever things with casting pointers.

'clever things with casting pointers' sounds like someone thought C
was an assembler and not a language with quite tight requirements on
what you are allowed to do. If something does 'clever things' I strongly
recommend to compile it with -O0. Optimisation of the compiler is only
supposed to keep the behaviour of conforming code, with 'clever' things
everything is possible.

 If the maintainer doesn't object
 (or fix the bug of course), I intend to NMU lzo2 to use that macro on at
 least armel; I would like to sanity-check whether I should be using a
 blacklist or whitelist approach, and which architectures other than
 armel should be on the blacklist, or which architectures other than x86
 should be on the whitelist.
 
 Relatedly, if we have
 
 typedef struct lzo_memops_TU2_struct {
   unsigned char a[2];
 } lzo_memops_TU2;
 
 *(lzo_memops_TU2 *) (void *) dest =
 *(const lzo_memops_TU2 *) (void *) src;
 
 is gcc within its rights to optimize that into an aligned 16-bit load
 and an aligned 16-bit store, even though alignof(lzo_memops_TU2) == 1;
 or should gcc be emitting pessimistic byte-by-byte code for that?

With the *(const lzo_memops_TU2 *) (void *) src you tell the compiler
that src is pointing to a memory address that is a lzo_memops_TU2_struct. 
In a case where it is not gcc is free to assume that this code path is
not  inteded to be ever executed and may replace it in any way it see fit
to cope with other code paths (luckily replacing the code with
'system(rm -rf /);' is unlikely to happen, though that would totally
legit for a compiler in cases src points to anything else.)
For dest things are a bit more complicated. If the alignment is wrong
gcc might replace the code with anything it wants. Otherwise that memory
might afterwards be regarded as lzo_memops_TU2_struct and accessing it
as anything else is fair game for the compiler to assume it is dead
code.

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Re: RFC: DEP-14: Recommended layout for Git packaging repositories

2014-11-20 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ron r...@debian.org [141119 07:21]:
 I believe Bernhard explained earlier that git-dpm allows the replacement
 character to be configurable (but also offers just a single character
 for all replacements).

git-dpm doesn't have a replacement-character configurable, but different
control sequences for the variable parts of tags supporting different
version schemata, so one can configure debian%e-%v for the old style
1:2:3~4 generating tag name debian1-2_3_4. And debian/%E%V would
give debian/1.2.3.4 and foobar-%e%v would give doobar-1.2_3_4.
The current sid version has some combinations (for the different parts
of the version needed for the different older schemata there are currently
%v %u %e %f %V %U %E) but yet none which replaces anything in versions
with %, which will make it interesting to create code for it.

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: RFC: DEP-14: Recommended layout for Git packaging repositories

2014-11-14 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Raphael Hertzog hert...@debian.org [141114 12:34]:
 On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
  * Raphael Hertzog hert...@debian.org [14 22:26]:
   Helper tools should usually rely on the output of `dpkg-vendor --query 
   vendor`
   to find out the name of the current vendor. The retrieved string must be
   converted to lower case. This allows users to override the current vendor
   by setting `DEB_VENDOR` in their environment (provided that the vendor
   information does exist in `/etc/dpkg/origins/`).
 
  Is using the vendor you use git on a good default for the vendor code
  you are currently working on? In my experience those two are quite
  unrelated.

 Do you have a better default to suggest? In any case, having a default
 value is certainly better than not having one and forcing everybody to
 configure it in some ways.

I'm not so sure about that. Having a broken default can be more annoying
than not having a default at all.

 I try to work in Kali chroots when I do Kali work. It's true that
 it's not always the case but if there were real differences right now I
 would pay more attention or would ensure to have the proper environment.

Well, for test-building stuff and things like that going to the proper
environment is nice, but why having the need to have gitk and new enough
versions of your helper tools around everywhere?

   Version mangling
   
   
   When a Git tag needs to refer to a specific version of a Debian package,
   the Debian version needs to be mangled to cope with Git's restrictions.
   The colon (`:`) needs to be replaced with a percent (`%`), and the tilde
   (`~`) needs to be replaced with an underscore (`_`).
  
  Is there a previous case of encoding colons with percent signs?
 
 This is the current convention used by git-buildpackage and I believe the
 % has been picked because it's visually close to : (i.e. two dots/two
 circles).

  If it is inventing a third way instead of using on of the existing ones,
  is sounds like a bad idea.
 
 Do you suggest to use URL encoding? That's rather heavyweight for two
 special cases that can be easily mapped to other characters that are not
 used in version strings. And it would convert characters that do not
 need any special escaping currently.

No, I was refering to the many ways to encode. I was yet aware of
encoding 2:1-3~4 as
debian2-1-3_4
debian-2_1-3_4
debian-2.1-3.4

I guess using single letters as format identifiers in git-dpm's tag
specification was a bit optimistic...

  Tags are only based on versions are also quite hard to shuffle around.
  I'd strongly suggest adding the name of the source package to those,
  otherwise accessing multiple packages in on repository causes a big
  mess. (git keeps branches in the per-origin remote namespace when
  fetching stuff, tags only have one global namespace, local and remote).

 I don't think this makes sense. The common case is a single software per
 git repository. If you have multiple software, then the git way is
 to use git submodules. If you have an upstream that doesn't follow those
 conventions, then it's a good reason to not follow DEP-14 for the tagging
 of your Debian releases.

While having a repository hosting multiple projects permanently makes in
many cases not that many sense (though I sometimes prefer it for some
small stuff, as it allows to make/update a mobile backup with a single
git command), cherry picking commits from other repositories in git
to my knowledge requires fetching at least part of that history in your
current working repository. When fetching too much by mistake the global
nature of tags can make quite a mess.

   Native packages
   ===
   
   The above conventions mainly cater to the case of non-native packages,
   that is when the upstream developers and the package maintainers are
   not the same set of persons.
   
   When upstream is Debian (or one of its derivative), the upstream vendor
   should not use the usual `vendor/` prefix (but all others vendors should
   do so). The main development branch can be named `master` instead of
   the codename of the target distribution (although you are free to still
   use the codename if you wish so).
  
  Does native here mean a native package or a package developed primarily
  for Debian (which can also use a non-native packaging)? This paragraph
  seems to mix those two concepts quite a bit.
 
 Yes it mentions both concepts. I tried to word it in a way that is clear
 enough though. If you find some parts ambiguous, let me know which one
 or suggest a better wording.

Perhaps s/If upstream is Debian/If the package uses the native packaging format 
and upstream is
Debian/ ?

 I tried to improve this:
 
 @@ -175,9 +177,8 @@ a byte-for-byte copy of the upstream tarballs, this 
 should be done in the
  Native packages
  ===
  
 -The above conventions mainly cater to the case of non-native packages,
 -that is when the upstream developers and the package

Re: RFC: DEP-14: Recommended layout for Git packaging repositories

2014-11-13 Thread Bernhard R. Link
 should not use the usual `vendor/` prefix (but all others vendors should
 do so). The main development branch can be named `master` instead of
 the codename of the target distribution (although you are free to still
 use the codename if you wish so).

Does native here mean a native package or a package developed primarily
for Debian (which can also use a non-native packaging)? This paragraph
seems to mix those two concepts quite a bit.

 Patch queue tags
 

 A patch queue branch is a (temporary) branch used to define the set
 of upstream changes that the package will contain, its content is
 generally used to later update `debian/patches` in the resulting
 source package.

s/(temporary)/(possibly temporary)/ ?

 What to store in the Git repository
 ---

 It is recommended that the packaging branches contain both the upstream
 sources and the Debian packaging. Users who have cloned the repository
 should be able to run `dpkg-buildpackage -b -us -uc` without doing
 anything else (assuming they have the required build dependencies).

++
(except that one of course needs to get the .orig.tar.gz using
pristine-tar or uscan for a non-native package needs to be an exception
from anything else)


 Managing debian/changelog
 -

 This DEP makes no specific recommendation on how to manage the Debian
 changelog. Some maintainers like to use tools like `gbp dch` to generate
 the changelog based on Git commit notices, others edit the file manually
 and use tools like `debcommit` to reuse the changelog entry in the
 Git commit.

 Helper tools should however configure the Git repository so that merges
 of the `debian/changelog` file are handled by `dpkg-mergechangelogs` as
 this will make it much easier to merge between different packaging
 branches.

Ugh. Please do not encourage tools to pester with my git config.
(Perhaps this want meant as something to do when automatically creating
a repository for you?)

Bernhard R. Link

P.S: I think the timing for this proposal it not that good. I'd rather
waste my time looking for some RC bugs to fix as long as there might
still be some easy ones left so shortly after the freeze.

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Accepted dosfstools 3.0.26-5 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-11-11 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:38:15 +0100
Source: dosfstools
Binary: dosfstools dosfstools-dbg dosfstools-udeb
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 3.0.26-5
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QA Group packa...@qa.debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 dosfstools - utilities for making and checking MS-DOS FAT filesystems
 dosfstools-dbg - utilities for making and checking MS-DOS FAT filesystems 
(debug)
 dosfstools-udeb - utilities for making and checking MS-DOS FAT filesystems 
(udeb) (udeb)
Closes: 768909
Changes:
 dosfstools (3.0.26-5) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * QA upload
   * set Vcs-* to collab-maint
   * add 0001-LFN-is-no-volume-entry.patch:
 don't overwrite LFN entries with volume entries (Closes: #768909)
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Re: dgit and git-dpm

2014-11-03 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk [141103 19:13]:
 The point is that the dgit user probably will have done git diff
 before dgit build / push.  git diff provides a more convenient diffing
 tool than debdiff, and eyeballing the same thing twice is makework.

git diff is a nice tool. But it has it limits. Try detecting the adding
or removel of an empty file with git diff for example.

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: dgit and git-dpm

2014-11-02 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ian Jackson ijack...@chiark.greenend.org.uk [141030 13:42]:
 Thorsten Glaser writes (Re: dgit and git-dpm):
  – I’d prefer users of even dgit, no matter how good it may be, to
  not rely on that.

 Again, why ?

To do an NMU, one has to generate a debdiff anyway to post it to the
bug report (as the rules for NMUs mandate).

And the debdiff is the real difference so the real changes done, so
worth looking at.

How is being quite sure what would be in there with dgit that much
different as with other NMUs? Where is the difference to
I just applied those two patches from the BTS and changed
debian/rules the way described in debian/changelog.
Why should I look at the debdiff? I know I changed nothing else.?

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: Bug#752450: ftp.debian.org: please consider to strongly tighten the validity period of Release files

2014-10-31 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Christoph Anton Mitterer cales...@scientia.net [141030 05:10]:
 To be honest, it's really awkward to see how much all this is apparently
 fought against.

You have been told again and again that what you suggest would make the
whole thing less useable to the point that it reduces security for many
people.

You have been told that your thread model is quite strange, in that
you assume that people will
- not only notice every MITM with too old a signature even though
  you suggest to change the system so that this will cause far more
  false positives,
- but will also investigate every short network or mirror problem so
  that the far easier MITM of making the security mirrors inaccessible
  (which your suggested 'improvement' does nothing against) is not
  possible,
- but are not able to notice if there are no security updates applied.

What do you expect? That people on the list think it is a good idea to
do what in their eyes only lowers Debian's security just because someone
continues to claim the opposite?

Please take a step back and try to understand why people think this
will not help (It is not because they do not believe in evil
resourceful governments). This should make it easier to either have
arguments that persuage people or even better lead to solutions that
improve the situation more generally (I'm quite sure the are aspects
that can be improved, just that lowering Valid-Until times is
detrimental).

Bernhard R. Link
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Accepted cuyo 2.0.0brl1-3 (source all amd64) into unstable

2014-10-18 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 09:06:55 +0200
Source: cuyo
Binary: cuyo cuyo-data
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 2.0.0brl1-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 cuyo   - Tetris-like game with very impressive effects
 cuyo-data  - data files for the game cuyo
Closes: 757090
Changes:
 cuyo (2.0.0brl1-3) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * add portuguese translation (Closes: 757090)
   * install translation files (fixes packaging error and adds pt)
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Accepted git-dpm 0.9.1-1 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-18 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2014 09:54:57 +0200
Source: git-dpm
Binary: git-dpm
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.9.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 git-dpm- git Debian package manager
Closes: 760576
Changes:
 git-dpm (0.9.1-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new bugfix version
   - fix import-dsc broken by 0.9.0
   - describe --allow-nonlinear in manpage (Closes: 760576)
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Accepted git-dpm 0.9.0-1 (source all) into unstable

2014-10-11 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 20:39:37 +0200
Source: git-dpm
Binary: git-dpm
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.9.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 git-dpm- git Debian package manager
Closes: 754052 760579
Changes:
 git-dpm (0.9.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new version
   - mark new-upstream subcommand as deprecated in favour of
 the new name record-new-upstream
   - allow to set default tag names also in debian/.git-dpm
   - add more possible variants in tag names templates (Closes: 760579)
   - add --exclude options to import-tar and import-new-upstream
   - several small bugfixes
   - improve documentation about removing patches (Closes: #754052)
   * increase Standards-Version
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Accepted ratpoison 1.4.8-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-10-10 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:00:36 +0200
Source: ratpoison
Binary: ratpoison
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.4.8-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 ratpoison  - keyboard-only window manager
Changes:
 ratpoison (1.4.8-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new upstream bugfix release
   - fix sfdump with multiple screens
   * increase Standards-Version
   * add debian/emacsen-compat to work with new emacsen-common behaviour
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Accepted reprepro 4.16.0-1 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-08-31 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 18:49:44 +0200
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.16.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Changes:
 reprepro (4.16.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new release
   - don't use python2 in examples
   - support for using liblzma for decompressing .xz and .lzma
   * build-depend on liblzma-dev
   * switch Vcs-Browser to cgi URL.
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Accepted xbuffy 3.3.bl.3.dfsg-10 (source amd64) into unstable

2014-08-09 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2014 18:12:21 +0200
Source: xbuffy
Binary: xbuffy
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 3.3.bl.3.dfsg-10
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Debian QA Group packa...@qa.debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 xbuffy - monitor mailboxes and/or newsgroups
Changes:
 xbuffy (3.3.bl.3.dfsg-10) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * orphan package
   * change Vcs- headers to collab-maint
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Re: Bug#754513: ITP: libressl -- SSL library, forked from OpenSSL

2014-07-13 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Mike Hommey m...@glandium.org [140713 12:55]:
  … while IMHO it's possible to safely mix openssl and libressl if we prepare
  for that (i.e. make sure that _everything_ in libressl is only exported 
  with properly versioned symbols)
 
 Contrary to what you seem to believe, this only really works if *both*
 libraries have versioned symbols. Otherwise, you can end up with
 libraries linked against the unversioned one using symbols from the
 versioned one at run time when both are loaded in the same address
 space.

Actually, both having versioned symbols is not enough.
It is either both must always have had versioned symbols or
both must have versioned symbols now and every binary linked against
either must have been built (or rebuilt) after the symbols got
versioned.

Bernhard R. Link
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Accepted reprepro 4.15.0-1 (source amd64)

2014-06-29 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 13:46:06 +0200
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.15.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description:
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Changes:
 reprepro (4.15.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new release
   - fixes to outsftphook example
   - new xz.example to generate Packages.xz
   * add pinentry-curses to build-depends to reduce install size
   * ship more of the example scripts
   * add pinentry-curses to Depends to avoid pulling pinentry-gtk in
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Re: Why not 03 ?

2014-06-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Julian Taylor jtaylor.deb...@googlemail.com [140601 14:29]:
 I would not go into detail about O2 or O3 in the policy.
 The meaning of these flags is very compiler specific. E.g. clang will
 enable vectorization already at O2 and adds almost no extra passes with O3.

 I think it would be better to simply state:
 If the upstream optimization options differ from the ones of the default
 debian toolchain it is recommended to override the debian defaults to
 match the ones upstream uses during packaging.
 Upstream usually has choosen particular options for a reason, they know
 their software best.

I think one of the examples here was scientific software. Assuming
upstream knows what they do is very unlikely to be true there.

I'd rather argue for a unless you know what you do, use -O2, which
is almost the current state. (I'd rather argue that currentl too much
software uses something different to -O2 for no good and too often bad
reasons).

Bernhard R. Link
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Accepted ratpoison 1.4.7-1 (source amd64)

2014-05-05 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 19:55:50 +0200
Source: ratpoison
Binary: ratpoison
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.4.7-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 ratpoison  - keyboard-only window manager
Closes: 723650
Changes: 
 ratpoison (1.4.7-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new upstream release
   - fix printing of XGetWMName failed (Closes: 723650)
   * add new configure options and build-dependencies needed for new version
   * increase Standards-Version
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Accepted xbuffy 3.3.bl.3.dfsg-9 (source amd64)

2014-04-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 23:31:59 +0200
Source: xbuffy
Binary: xbuffy
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 3.3.bl.3.dfsg-9
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 xbuffy - monitor mailboxes and/or newsgroups
Changes: 
 xbuffy (3.3.bl.3.dfsg-9) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * update Vcs- headers
   * change to debhelper compatibility level 8
   * use dpkg-buildflags
   * bump Standards-Version
   * replace indent subject lines patch, fixing:
 CVE-2014-0469 xbuffy stack-based buffer overflow in subject processing
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Accepted reprepro 4.14.0-1 (source amd64)

2014-03-18 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:12:58 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.14.0-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Closes: 714418 731966 738558 739174 739175 741507
Changes: 
 reprepro (4.14.0-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new release
   - update omits sources with Extra-Source-Only by default (Closes: #714418)
   - improve documentation of --list-format (Closes: #731966)
   - fix udeb overrides (Closes: #741507)
   - improve some glitches in error messages (Closes: #738558)
   - add _addreferences command (Closes: #739174, #739175)
   * increase Standards-Version to 3.9.5
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Accepted git-dpm 0.8.5-1 (source all)

2014-03-09 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 09 Mar 2014 17:33:07 +0100
Source: git-dpm
Binary: git-dpm
Architecture: source all
Version: 0.8.5-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 git-dpm- git Debian package manager
Closes: 734546
Changes: 
 git-dpm (0.8.5-1) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * new bugfix version
   - now c-p is only short-alias for one command (Closes: 734546)
   - fix importing .tar files containing hardlinks
   - try harder to find dpatch patches to import
   - fix problem with importing patches with Author: onlyemail into git
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Re: Bug#737634: dpkg-dev: please reject native/non-native version when building native/non-native source packages

2014-02-05 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Sam Hartman hartm...@debian.org [140205 13:27]:
 no, that means I have to maintain the artifact (namely the
 .orig.tar.gz).
 The archive software (both reprepro and dak were I to use that) require
 that the .orig.tar.gz not change checksums.
 
 I don't want my build machines to be able to push back to my master
 repository.
 Nor do I want to have to release upstream versions if I lose state on my
 build machines.
 So this violates my requirements because I have to maintain  an artifact
 of dpkg-source (the .orig.tar.gz) and makesure its checksum never
 changes.

This answers the question why you want to use a 3.0 (native) package.
But the real question here is: Why do you want to use a version with -
for such a package?

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: dpkg-dev: please reject native/non-native version when building native/non-native source packages

2014-02-05 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org [140205 14:18]:
 Who benefited directly from the change of behavior ?  Nobody ?  Then please
 revert it; it was not necessary.

Most import are people starting to create Debian packages.
At least with 3.0 source packages they no longer have to care about the
different meanings of native vs non-native. A package either is native,
then both the version and the package reflect this, or they are
non-native. No more chances to only switch one of the fields but not the
other by mistake.

It also helps users, as it makes it easier to guess what things look
like, from only looking at the version.

Finally it makes it easier for writers of tools to deal with Debian
packages, as there are some absurd corner cases fewer. (The most absurd
one is a 3.0(quilt) with a package without hyphen. The resulting
filenames are simply ...).

 Alternatively, please rename the 3.0 (native) format to 3.0 (tarball) or
 anything elese, and we are done.

And brake almost everything? That suggestion is almost equivalent to
just forbidding 3.0 (native) packages completely for the next decade.

Bernhard R. Link
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Re: GnuTLS in Debian

2013-12-28 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Russ Allbery r...@debian.org [131227 18:53]:
 Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org writes:
  * Russ Allbery r...@debian.org [131224 01:42]:

  On the contrary, it's Debian's insistence on following an idiosyncratic
  license interpretation that's creating the supposed unfairness.  This
  is obviously not Red Hat's fault.

  Could you please stop using that word idiosyncratic.

 I believe idiosyncratic is exactly the correct term:

   idiosyncratic
   adj 1: peculiar to the individual; we all have our own
  idiosyncratic gestures; Michelangelo's highly
  idiosyncratic style of painting

 and therefore decline to stop using it.

Given that the GPL FAQ and thus the authors of the license seem
to be of the same opinion, calling an interpretation you do not
like as peculiar to the individual is already quite derogative.
Using a term that sounds quite similar like idiotic for this
is something even a troll could not do better.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: GnuTLS in Debian

2013-12-28 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Thomas Goirand z...@debian.org [131228 08:30]:
 don't think it does anymore, especially seeing that almost no upstream
 author cares about Debian's nit-picking on this particular issue. We're
 just beating ourselves for no valid reason.

Almost no upstream author cares about licensing at all. The mayority of
them has no problems giving self-contradictionary terms. Distributing
stuff with no license at all. Or simply copying other people's code
without looking at the license or even without including any license
statement or even copyright notice.

Debian is no corporation that can just willy-nilly copy stuff around
without caring for the law and hoping noone will find out or just
pay the authors off if they find out. And our users are not really
helped if the software they depended on suddenly is no longer available
because noone cared for the license before.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: GnuTLS in Debian

2013-12-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Russ Allbery r...@debian.org [131224 01:42]:
 On the contrary, it's Debian's insistence on following an idiosyncratic
 license interpretation that's creating the supposed unfairness.  This is
 obviously not Red Hat's fault.

Could you please stop using that word idiosyncratic. How about
using interpretations I do not like.

Thanks in advance,
Bernhard R. Link


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Accepted cuyo 2.0.0brl1-2 (source all amd64)

2013-12-10 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 12:06:55 +0100
Source: cuyo
Binary: cuyo cuyo-data
Architecture: source all amd64
Version: 2.0.0brl1-2
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 cuyo   - Tetris-like game with very impressive effects
 cuyo-data  - data files for the game cuyo
Changes: 
 cuyo (2.0.0brl1-2) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new maintenance upload
   - switch to debhelper compatibility level 8
   - bump Standards-Version
   - remve no longer needed lintian override
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cuyo_2.0.0brl1-2.debian.tar.gz
 73cd888cee8cff342259c67d90f3f7eb 2207884 games optional 
cuyo-data_2.0.0brl1-2_all.deb
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Accepted xwit 3.4-15 (source amd64)

2013-12-10 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 12:14:38 +0100
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Architecture: source amd64
Version: 3.4-15
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 xwit   - collection of simple routines to call some X11 functions
Changes: 
 xwit (3.4-15) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * update Vcs- headers
   * change debhelper compatibility to 8
   * bump Standards-Version
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Accepted wm2 4+svn20090216-3 (source amd64)

2013-12-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2013 18:46:26 +0100
Source: wm2
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Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4+svn20090216-3
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 wm2- small, unconfigurable window manager
Changes: 
 wm2 (4+svn20090216-3) unstable; urgency=medium
 .
   * modernize debian packaging
   - support dpkg-buildflags
   - debhelper compatibility level up to 8
   - bump Standards-Version to 3.9.4
   - update Vcs headers
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Re: think twice before enabling -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 for C projects without thorough build-time testing

2013-09-21 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Kees Cook k...@debian.org [130921 17:08]:
 In a theoretical sense, sure. In this particular case, why bother breaking
 it when it's a trivial 1 line fix? My original approach was to fix it in
 libc and do a mass bug filing. Everyone wins. If we want to reject the
 undefined behavior, we should modify the compiler to reject it. Seems to me
 it's a bug to even allow undefined behavior.

The whole point of undefined behaviour in C is that the compiler/implementor/...
does not have to care. Checking every time would make it slower,
requesting any specific behaviour would make it slower. (Some argue a
compiler might not even reject a program with only undefined behaviour,
but that the standard required some program as result, just making no
claim about what that program should do).
The compiler not warning against it is a shortcoming, but not a bug.
Writing a program that invokes undefined behaviour is a bug.

And even if the library was fixed, as long as the program has undefined
behaviour, every future gcc version is still free to give it any
behaviour it choses to.

Bernhard R. Link


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Accepted gv 1:3.7.4-1 (source amd64)

2013-08-31 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 17:33:44 +0200
Source: gv
Binary: gv
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1:3.7.4-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 gv - PostScript and PDF viewer for X
Changes: 
 gv (1:3.7.4-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new upstream release
   - incorporates the patch for the gv-update-userconfig manpage
   * bump Standards-Version
   * improve Vcs- fields
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Re: new hashes (SHA512, SHA3) in apt metadata and .changes files?

2013-08-03 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Paul Wise p...@debian.org [130802 15:54]:
  In any case, removing md5 support seems like a bad idea to me right
  now, as older software might not have been adapted to check the other
  hashes, or would imply breaking the current .dsc and ,changes formats,
  as the Files field uses md5.
 
 We've had SHA1 since before snapshot.d.o data started (2005), I would
 guess any relevant software would have been updated in the last 8
 years.

In 2008 ubuntu had Sha256Sums wrong which showed that back then almost
not software even bothered to check those fields:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/243630

non-md5sum hashses in Sources generated by DAK were incomplete until
the generation code moved away from apt-ftparchive (early 2011 I think),
thus only the Files: part with md5sums was the only reliable way to get
the list of all files belonging to it.

Support for non-md5sum hashes was added to dpkg-scansources/apt-ftparchive
with apt (0.7.25.3) released to unstable 2010-02-01, first released with
squeeze.

So it is not some 8 years. It is more since squeeze that Debian and
some of the common tools even produce complete non-md5sum hashes in
Sources indices.

reprepro for example only tries to support source indices without
Files (i.e.  md5sum hashes) since 4.12.0 (i.e. since wheezy).

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: AGPLv3 Compliance and Debian Users

2013-07-13 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Howard Chu h...@symas.com [130712 03:51]:
 Indeed. If you're a dissident fighting your own government, then
 complying with a license that can only be enforced by a government
 agency is probably the least of your worries.

Indeed. That's why every interpretation of the dissident test I've
heard assumes you are a dissident that had to flee his country.
If your new host country then has to forbid you earning money
with the software you know best because you had to violate the license
to not be caught back when you still were at home, then you are
caught in the extreme situation constructed to make it easier to
understand how ugly some harmless looking restriction can become.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Berkeley DB 6.0 license change to AGPLv3

2013-07-10 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org [130710 13:07]:
 On Sat, Jul 06, 2013 at 05:41:16PM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
  No, there is a really important difference. With GPL you only have to be
  careful when you give binaries to anyone, that you also give the source.
  This is a bit of a hassle, but worst case means that you cannot help
  others with the software changes you have done (bad enough but worth the
  hassle to have the source) if you miss some of the sources. But if the
  sources may contain any passwords or other internal data you cannot/do
  not want to share, so will likely the binary so that is no difference.

 On this level, the analogy GPL/AGPL still seems correct to me.

For me GPL is like police patroling in the streets and AGPL is like
policy getting the right to visit my bedroom at evening to look under
the bed for monsters at their discretion.

 A software distributed under AGPL will likely come with mechanisms
 already in place to point to its source code --- that might not be the
 case today yet, due to the scarce popularity of AGPL, but that's a
 separate matter.  That means that you can easily run unmodified version
 of an AGPL'd program, for any purpose, without particular restrictions.

I hope will all agree that the unmodified case does not matter at all.

 If you modify the software you might get in trouble but, according to my
 personal ethics, that's the trouble you should have.

I accept that I am not allowed to modify some software. But I refuse to
call such software free.

 However, please
 note that as long as you run the software only for yourself, you don't
 have any problem.

This is not the 1990ties anymore. Not allowing net access is quite an
big contraint. Some better definitions might reduce the problem here.

But given the way section is formulated I see nothing that would
make an exception for something only used by me and everyone else
interacting with it only by getting a loging prompt and a failure
message when they do not provide my username and password.

 You might encounter problems only in the case you've
 modified the software, you want *others* to use it over the net, and you
 don't provide the source code that include your modifications.

So if I patch a IRC client for my personal use to also show me some
other information (as I do not want too many open windows) and that
client contains AGPL code, does that fall under section 13 (assuming
it supports CTCP)? Have I lost the right to patch my programs locally
in a quick and dirty way embedding hostnames and passwords and logic
to access some private services in it without implementing a fake-irc
server for that information or some general message passing mechanism?

Even if defining the undefined interacting to need more interaction,
let's look at some website provided by some of the all-in-one thing.
Assume it has some content mangement part, partly showing public
information, partly only accessible by me (or if I in this example
was a company by my employees). And also a blog with comments (as
I think it will hard to define interacting so narrowly that it
will not contain that). Now if I want the private part to show me
some information from some other source, I am again forced to have
split things 'cleanly' on my systems with AGPL.

 That shift is coherent with the shift in the most common deployment
 [...]

Not every solution can be shifted. If some fly does not allow me
to sleep by its noise, I will either kill it or open an window and
throw it out. But if I had a cat and that would be too loud, neighter
would be a solution (perhaps the second if I lived at ground
floor). And if you have a baby, ...

There can be no freedom without restricting them to actually have them
in the one way or the other. But for such a restriction to be justified,
it needs both to be effective in protecting another freedom and not
cause greater harm than it brings.

In every way I see that you could make the definitions, AGPL will fail
at the one or the other:

Assume a AGPL program being modified or a program using AGPL libraries
to be interacting only via answering HTTP Requests and returning all
it's source code when /source.tar.gz is requested and giving proper
notice of this and the license and so on.

Either the AGPL permits such a program (or any AGPL program transformed
into such a program) to be run bound to a private IP or localhost
and all user interaction via a reverse proxy or loadbalancer that
returns 403 for /source.tar.gz or it forbids it.

In the first case the added restrictions are totally useless, especially
against the big software as a service players that it claims to
target, as those will likely have some loadbalancer doing some filtering
anyway.

In the second case it the restrictions to my freedom are so severe, that
I cannot see how it can do more harm than good. What worth has the
source to all the software in the world and the right to modify it, if
I lose the right to run things on my

Re: Berkeley DB 6.0 license change to AGPLv3

2013-07-06 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Stefano Zacchiroli z...@debian.org [130704 09:24]:
 I mean, sure, it *is* more tricky to provide such a URL for users that
 will be running a *modified* version of INN. But it is exactly the same
 kind of difficulties that people distributing modified copylefted
 software will have to face to uphold GPL (or equivalent) terms.

No, there is a really important difference. With GPL you only have to be
careful when you give binaries to anyone, that you also give the source.
This is a bit of a hassle, but worst case means that you cannot help
others with the software changes you have done (bad enough but worth the
hassle to have the source) if you miss some of the sources. But if the
sources may contain any passwords or other internal data you cannot/do
not want to share, so will likely the binary so that is no difference.

With AGPL you are no longer allowed to run the software in this case.
I do not see how a software restricting running a software can still
be called free.

Low quality software modifications are not the best. It would be far
nicer if anyone just wrote nice general frameworks for their specific
needs and submitted them upstream. But limiting the users freedom to
be able to do and finance that is absurd. If you are no longer allowed
to make some quick and dirty modifications to make our software work
for you, then in the sum it is no more free at all.

 For people who
 are fine with the copyleft approach (and of course not all of us are)
 AGPL shouldn't be particularly shocking.

Sorry, once I am no longer allowed to run some software on my computer
because I modified it to my needs, then it simply is not free. People
still calling that free is shocking for me indeed.

 In that sense, AGPL is just a
 new release of GPL that closes a long outstanding bug titled provide a
 license port for the Software-as-a-Service era.

And adding DRM to the browser is just closing a long outstanding bug
titled please cripple my system enough so that content providers will
take my money?

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Berkeley DB 6.0 license change to AGPLv3

2013-07-02 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org [130702 15:15]:
 Again, why do you plan on removing free software from main due to a
 change in license?

Licenses matter. Just because something it acceptable for Debian
main does not mean it is a good idea to have something licensed under
a specific license. So removing stuff if their license changes can
make sense in many situations.

And doubly so for AGPL. (I'll never understand why people consider it
free software, I'd not even allow the term freeware for it).

Bernhard R. Link



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Re: jessie release goal: verbose build logs

2013-06-14 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Matthias Klose d...@debian.org [130614 13:36]:
 Verbose build logs allow to analyse package builds and give hints to more 
 issues
 regarding the build, especially for the hardening flags.  The lintian 
 hardening
 checks are incomplete, because they rely on the inspection of the generated
 binaries, which may be incomplete especially for many plugins or dynamically
 loadable extensions.

While I agree that a build log without compiler arguments is essentially
worthless, could we please not call something that is not too silent
verbose? Verbose is something that uses more words as necessary, while
compiler options are neccessary, without them users of the software
cannot get help in forums or channels when they have problems compiling
the software and with build logs porters can often hardly help if the
old buildd log contains no information.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: default MTA

2013-06-11 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org [130611 18:35]:
 On Fri, Jun 07, 2013 at 12:45:07PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
  Sendmail has just one more layer of indirection by virtue of the m4
  macros. Postfix has most of its behavior hard coded in the C sources,
  while exim's behavior can be controlled by run-time configuration if
  an advanced user wants to do things that Debian's abstraction layer
  was not designed to handle.
 
 There are a class of users between beginner and exim expert for which the
 current state of affairs is not optimal. I don't know how big that class
 is but I've been in it for ten years.

The only class of users I can imagine the current situation not optional
is someone being used to postfix[1]. When I remember learning exim I found
it quite nice that the config is quite self-explaining what it is
actually doing. With postfix the config is just black magic, where one
has hardly any chance to understand what it does and how to change it to
do what you want to change.

[1] And those can simply install postfix and be done with it.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: default MTA

2013-06-06 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us [130606 14:53]:
 I'm glad you asked this, because it prompted me to investigate further.  This 
 was something I was told was commonly done, but it looks now like it might be 
 a misnomer.  I'm not able to find a concrete example of a system that allows 
 SMTP MTA transfers but doesn't allow telnet to the SMTP port.  [The instances 
 that seemed to fit the symptoms look like they have more normal root 
 causes, 
 such as ISP port 25 filtering.]
 
 Because I had repeatedly been told that telnet to the MTA was a security 
 problem, prior to now I had suspected that blocking telnet to SMTP might be 
 possible via firewall filtering that distinguished the type of service 
 somehow, but after doing some packet sniffing and examining the resulting 
 packet internals I'm starting to doubt this is possible.

Actually, it is possible to block telnet (and I've seen some ISPs do it).

In unrelated news, using telnet is a bad idea. If you want to connect to some
port and see what you get, use netcat.
Telnet is not a tool to show things coming from a port but a tool to
speak the telnet protocol.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: [clang] Report bugs on packages failing to build with clang

2013-06-05 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Colin Watson cjwat...@debian.org [130604 15:47]:
 On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 10:08:59PM +0200, Michael Tautschnig wrote:
  I think this will likely improve code quality, hence I'm much in
  favour of this, in particular when it comes to outright bugs. But a
  non-negligible fraction of the build failures, I believe, are due to
  the use of nested functions. This could well be considered design
  decisions when used intentionally (unlike, e.g., [684508], where I
  have already filed a bug). I'm not sure whether upstream will be very
  keen on such bug reports?

 clang.debian.net lists 39 instances of these, though I think the buildd
 is a bit behind so there are probably a few more.

At least one more of the 432 Not categorized is also due to this
missing feature in clang (reprepro). As clang seems to gives quite
misleading error messages in this case, I'd not be surprised if there
are some more.

   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2013-01/msg0.html

Those arguments seem to be mostly related to tampolines, which is mostly
an argument against having pointers to nested functions.

Bernhard R. Link


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Accepted reprepro 4.13.1-1 (source amd64)

2013-06-02 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2013 16:49:21 +0200
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.13.1-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Changes: 
 reprepro (4.13.1-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new bugfix release
   - fix bug in restore* commands not doing anything if the
 last package is not affected
   - fix build-needing to support *-any architectures
   - fix name of per-component udeb Content file names
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Re: default MTA

2013-05-30 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Chris Knadle chris.kna...@coredump.us [130529 08:29]:
   - Exim configuration is more human readable than Postifx's, IMHO.
 
 Postfix configuration is concise but terse, and there are typically
 blocks of options separated by commas that doesn't easily allow
 commenting on specific config options.

Configurability is an important point. Having had to use postfix lately
I'm quite suprised anyone voluntarily uses that thing. Postfix feels
like some ad-hoc configuration gone absurd, by only making special use
cases configuable and then misusing those options for other things.
Together with this splitting in many little programs which all lack most
of the information, configuring postfix is a large puzzle and any
advanced postfix configuration (even from the official documentation)
looks like McGyver was out of duct-tape but had to build a nuclear reactor
from kitchen parts with only the transparent tape for office use.

The only positive thing you can say about Postfix' configuration is that
it might be better than sendmail's.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: default MTA

2013-05-30 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Marc Haber mh+debian-de...@zugschlus.de  [130530 12:39]:
 While I don't consider postfix as bad as you describe, I tend to
 describe Postfix as the menu in a better restaurant: A relatively
 small number of sophisticated dishes which you can choose from, and
 if you like them, you will be perfectly satisfied. If you want fries
 instead of plain potatoes, you're basically hosed.

It's not that bad. Even the postfix kitchen can make fries. The tricky
part is having one person served potatoes while the other person asks
for fries, because the person putting those on the dish is not allowed
to look at the order so they cannot determine from the drink whom they
are making the food for. You need to employ two of them, one doing
potatoes and the other one fries, but the waiter is not allowed to
chose which kitchen the order is sent to, so you have to tell the waitor
to write the order in a language the kitchen clerk cannot read, so the
kitchen clerk will pass it to the person responsible for reading
obliterated orders and this person you can tell it either give the order
to the kitchen doing potatoes or the kitchen doing fries depending on
what is wanted.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: parsable copyright format 1.0 (jessie release goals)

2013-05-14 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Sune Vuorela nos...@vuorela.dk [130512 12:43]:
 It is too much work for far too little gain. What *is* the gain?
 What is the gain of copyright files?

One big gain of a copyright file is the act of doing it.

For software to be distributable every copyright owner has to have
given his permission. To know that you have all those permissions,
you first need to know who those people actually are.
It also documents our reasonable exercises to reach our believe
that this is distributable.
I'd guess in some legislations such efford can make the difference
between just distribute it no more and pay for every copy that
was made.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Merging / and /usr (was: jessie release goals)

2013-05-09 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Marco d'Itri m...@linux.it [130509 16:03]:
 So, please let me know if you have some technical objections better 
 than it's an hack.

Having a seperate / means you have an instant rescue image that has
just the right kernel and tools you need to repair the rest of your
system. You also have one small filesystem with all the important
stuff like /etc in it while the boring large distro stuff is in
another partition. You also have a partition border between
most of the random stuff and the important stuff.

All those are real advantages that people care about. A simple
I do it differently or I do not care from your side is hardly
anything someone can counter with technical arguments, so you will
not see many.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Merging / and /usr (was: jessie release goals)

2013-05-09 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Roger Leigh rle...@codelibre.net [130509 13:34]:
 The assumptions here are that a separate rootfs decreases the chance
 of breakage, and that you'll need the rootfs to perform the rescue.

No, the point is that having two file systems reduces the amout of
breakage you get.

All the important stuff is in / while /usr is mostly static data
easily (at least outside /usr/local, and even there more likely
than say /etc) recoverable or not that important if lost.

Also with the tools in / you can usually repair problems in /usr.
There is just the right kernel and just the right versions of all
tools. You can do most of the stuff with some rescue-disc, if
the versions fits. But too often there are differences. And getting
some other tool it misses means you need to either install it in
an ramfs and hope you do not need to reboot or you need to have
some spare partition on the hw left. And you do not have access to
your fstab. While each of those problems is managable alone, they
sum up. Each adds to the time you need. And time is often something
you do not really want to spend in case you have a problem.

And while there is no proof that when having one small and one large
partition, the small partition is less likely to fail than everything
in one large partition together, both reason and experience demand
that this point is quite more than an assumption.

 Regarding rescue, the initramfs has a rescue shell which I've found
 to be just as useful as single user mode.  Once it has mounted the
 rootfs, you can chroot into that and do whatever you would normally
 do to rescue /usr. [Assuming a separate /usr.]  If it doesn't get as
 far as mounting the rootfs, then you'll need some rescue disc in any
 case.  I find the busybox shell to be just as effective as a rescue
 disc in most cases.

rescue /usr in a seperate / + /usr setting usually means making sure
it can be mounted again. (Or to transfer data elsewhere, which is also
much easier when your normal network setup is already available).

 In the case where we're mounting /usr in the initramfs rather than
 having it on the rootfs, there's no practical difference to the
 current status quo (and this is intentional).  The only change is
 that we provide the guarantee that /usr is available before init
 starts.

Or in other words: to make essential functionality not available if
/usr is broken.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: jessie release goals

2013-05-07 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Wookey woo...@wookware.org [130507 23:31]:
 The tradeoff is:
 1) (Move _all_ headers to /usr/include/triplet)
  * Much duplication of installed headers
  * Only one system include dir, which fits current build-system
  expectations

Which would also punish the libraries getting headers correct while
making the low-quality (or obsolete) stuff the norm. Since C99
there is hardly any reason left to have headers differing with the
architectures.

Bernhard R. Link


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Accepted ratpoison 1.4.6-1 (source amd64)

2013-05-06 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 06 May 2013 19:40:28 +0200
Source: ratpoison
Binary: ratpoison
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.4.6-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 ratpoison  - keyboard-only window manager
Changes: 
 ratpoison (1.4.6-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new upstream release
 (almost identical to rc1)
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Re: 2013 sometimes still feels like 2003 or 1993 (Re: NEW processing during freezes

2013-05-03 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Holger Levsen hol...@layer-acht.org [130502 12:28]:
  People do this all the time: upload packages built against local packages,
  experimental or even on Ubuntu to Debian sid.
 
 /me shivers. This hurts. There is no reason not to rebuild in sane 
 environments. Can we please fix this for the next release?!

I'm not sure the cure is not worse than the problem.

Apart from the big problem of making it even easier for people to
upload trash without testing it (both wasting buildd resources and
lettings users install broken packages which any trivial testing would
have catched, from which I've seen far too many), reducing the
buildability of packages is a cruical problem for freedom.

If we step towards rebuilding everything in a highly artifical
environment, it should be made clear that a package having missing
build-conflicts or any other bug preventing it from being built on
a real system should still be important bugs afterwards.

Once we drop that and only give people the right to modify the
software we distribute but no longer the possiblity to do so
on their own, the Free we are so proud on gets mood.

Also build systems tend to degrade quite heavily over time and
get more and more specific. In some years we might not be able
to switch to some other builder tools as too many packages depend
on the specifics of the ones we currently have.


Bernhard R. Link


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Re: git as a source package format?

2013-05-03 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Daniel Pocock dan...@pocock.com.au [130501 21:28]:
 Would there be any hard objection to a source package format based on
 git-bundle?

I think a git based source package has quite some problems.

- failing to properly make changes visible

  While you can express every history-graph in git, that is not an
  advantage. Changes relative to upstream sources found in a Debian
  source package should not only be present by recording history,
  but as many people as possible should be able to see what is
  actually changed in the package, and to reuse those changes elsewhere
  (either as upstream or sidestream).

  Debian is not like the BSDs[1] that just import some source into their
  CVS, make modifications at will, sometimes merge a new upstream
  version and some years later the only way to see what they changes is
  doing a full diff and hope you can isolate some of the changes.
  We do not fork but want the changes we need either upstream or also
  useable by other. Other distributions and users not using Debian are
  not our enemies, but partners towards a general advance of free software.

  While you can use git to keep changes in a way to make them reviewable
  and ready to transmit them elsewhere (git rebase -i is great), if you
  have that information ready then generating a 3.0 (quilt) package is
  trivial, and having changes expressed the same way in different
  packages makes it easier for everyone to find the information.
  (At least any other format should come with a way to support being show
   at patch-tracker.debian.org).

[1] They might have changed. It has been a long time since I looked.

- hiding stuff in obscure formats

  While a git-bundle is a format that is not that complicated to use
  once you are used to it, even the average git user will rarely know
  how to handle it manually. That means people not having the Debian
  tools available can hardly do anything with them on their own.

  Additionally needing to have some special VCS installed to look at
  a specific program can be a huge burden. While git got quite a decent
  pervasiveness now, not everyone has it and with the next hype it might
  equally fast being gone again.

  At least using such a git format should be absolutely forbidden if
  upstream uses any other free VCS. (I've seen packages in Debian that
  used one VCS, having upstream some inter-distribution working group
  that used anyother VCS that finaly was based on some big comercial
  player that published the free version on yet another VCS. That's
  annoying.)

 In other words, dpkg-source would extract all repository history (or all
 of the branch used to build the package) using the git-bundle command.
 The bundle file would then be uploaded to the FTP server instead of a
 traditional source tarball.

 A slight variation of this idea is that the repository would be cloned
 into a temporary bare repo, and that bare repo would be tarred up and
 the tarball would become the source upload.

- legal problems

  if you have all the history it is practically unreviewable for
  undistributeable stuff, and if that stuff is old enough, it is usually
  quite hard to get it out of the history. (There is filter-branch, but
  one does not take such an approach lightly).

  This is not a big problem for having those at alioth or other
  sides (You'll have to ask a lawyer, but I'd guess the ill effects
  are either limited to Debian losing all their money or only the
  team/uploader it is in. And likely alioth admins can just remove
  the git repository there in case something is found or someone sues
  and thereby reduce any penalties perhaps even till none are left.

  But the source packages are found on DVDs and mirrors all over the
  world. Many people help us distributing Debian. We owe them to do
  out best to keep them out of legal trouble for doing so.

  And source is what people need to actually make use of many of
  the software (especially GPL). People providing stuff based on
  Debian (be it pre-installed computers, appliances based on Debian,
  distributions based on Debian, ...) need to have the source ready
  to do so. If they use Debian binary packages, just keeping the
  Debian source package is the obvious way. Unless we switch to a
  source format where those can no longer be legally distributed.

 Then again, some of that behavior could be achieved by creating an
 `apt-get vcs-clone' function to read the Vcs control fields and make a
 clone for a traditional source package's repo.

sudo apt-get install devscripts
debcheckout source-package-name

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: 2013 sometimes still feels like 2003 or 1993 (Re: NEW processing during freezes

2013-05-03 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Russ Allbery r...@debian.org [130504 00:32]:
 The way to ensure that builds in non-clean environments work properly is
 to devise a method for testing them, and to do those tests on a regular
 basis and turn test failures into bugs.

Noone is speaking about non-clean environments, but only about
non-minimal, non-artifical ones.

 Trying to get at this testing indirectly by putting conditions on initial
 archive uploads doesn't really accomplish the goal.  It's a very random
 and scattershot way of testing that already doesn't work for any of us who
 use pbuilder and cowbuilder already.

That's why I think maintainers should not only build in pbuilders and
cowbuilders, but give their packages some actual testing.

Bernhard R. Link


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Bug#706160: general: it should be easier for ordinary developers to work with Debian packages

2013-04-25 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ben Longbons brlongb...@gmail.com [130425 18:27]:
 The problems with the way Debian does it are:
   - debian/ is a subdirectory of the extracted source tree.

Why do you think that is a problem?

   - Because of the above, debian/rules tries to know about backwards steps.

What are backwards steps?

   - There are too many arcane commands that have to be called.

./debian/rules build
fakeroot ./debian/rules binary

Everything else is mostly convenience wrappers.

   - It's not obvious how to modify the patch set directly.

modify upstream files, call dpkg-source --commit

   - There is no attempt at managing multiple source versions.

First you say things are too complicated, then you complain about
some obscure missing option I never found any use case for.

 How Simple Tasks are approached:
   Given a program that is not packaged for Debian and is not
   sufficiently useful to the general public to be worth the maintenance
   burden, install it such that the package manager knows about it.
 Debian:
   - checkinstall is buggy, quirky, and has no upgrade path.
   - I still haven't figured out how to do this easily. Based on the
 'hello' package, which is the simplest possible package, this
 requires writing a hundred lines of voodoo. A random sampling of
 existing package I've looked at agrees with this as a lower bound.

You can't have easy and high-quality at the same time. Most of the tools
used for official Debian package have the minimal complexity needed for
some quality. Apart from having someone write tools to simply create
private packages there is not much that can be done here.
(and from what you describe for Gentoo, I do not really see how a
dh_make ; vim debian/* ; dpkg-buildpackage is more complicated than the
Gentoo case).


   Given a completed set of package information for such a package,
   distribute it in a way that is easy for others to install.
 Debian:
   - Still haven't figured out the right way.

There are many ways, because needs are different.

   - I did find the 'dget' command that does some things. How was I
 supposed to know about this obscure command for a common use case?

dget is simply a convenience wrapper. Just have three files to download
for a source package. Anyone can click at three links easily.

   - You probably have to ship the whole huge .orig.tar.gz file, even
 though it's available on the internet under a different name, or
 even if it's really a git snapshot.

Sorry, but this is bullshit. If you want to make it easy for users, put
the .orig.tar.gz there. References too external resources will always go
stale and are and endless source of user frustration.

   Given a program with a buggy upstream release, apply a patch.
 Debian:
   - After trying to make local changes, it said: dpkg-source --commit
   - But it is tedious when you already have a full patch from upstream.

patch -i patchfile ; dpkg-source --commit

I thought it was about users knowing the basic command line utilities?

   Given a program with buggy Debian packaging, revert a patch.
 Debian:
   - no clue, it keeps trying to readd the changes and it's not obvious
 how to wipe the working tree.

The very easy way: just revert the change and add another dpkg-source --commit
The direct way: revert the change, remove the line from debian/patches/series
The complicated way: use quilt or some other high-level tool.

Gentoo:
  - Assume that you're competent enough to get ahold of a patch.
  - Add the patch to files/ (which is shared between all versions of
the package, though you can of course use a different name).
  - Add the filename to the PATCHES=() variable, remanifest.

 Gentoo:
   - Remove the filename from the PATCHES=() variable, remanifest.

Yeah, because every patch can simply be removed without any effects on
the other patches, you can just apply any patches you need to the
version you need. And if it doesn't you can just apply manually, fix it
and produce a new clean patch. NOT, seriously.

That you can just do stuff in your working directory, build and fix
again iteratively in your working directory and finally have some
working package is in my eyes one of the biggest strengths of Debian's
package format w.r.t. low entrance and making it easy for unexperienced
people to use Debian to meed their needs.

 Gentoo:
   - cp foo-1.ebuild foo-2.ebuild; ebuild foo-2.ebuild manifest
   - Typically, the source URL will automatically change based on the
 version number. If this is not the case, it is very obvious to fix.

your gentoo solution is the equivalent of copying the debian/ directory
around.

 In conclusion:
   The current Debian way is complicated. The Gentoo way is simple. This is
   not tied to the fact that Gentoo is a source-based distribution, although
   that does encourage the right mindset.

In 

Accepted ratpoison 1.4.6~rc1-1 (source amd64)

2013-04-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 20:02:07 +0200
Source: ratpoison
Binary: ratpoison
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 1.4.6~rc1-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 ratpoison  - keyboard-only window manager
Changes: 
 ratpoison (1.4.6~rc1-1) experimental; urgency=low
 .
   * new upstream prerelease
   + obsoletes most patches
   * improve remove{left,right,up,down} extension to only
 resize frames instead of removing them where possible
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ratpoison_1.4.6~rc1-1_amd64.deb
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Re: Go (golang) packaging, part 2

2013-02-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Russ Allbery r...@debian.org [130201 21:38]:
  If you want bleeding edge, then you are not a normal user and you
  certainly aren't a system administrator that wants to keep a controlled
  system they can reproduce.

 Speak for yourself.  I've been a system administrator for twenty years,
 and sometimes I have to deploy bleeding-edge code in order to accomplish a
 particular task.  You can do that in ways that also give you a
 reproducible system.

 Using Debian packages is a *means*, not an *end*.  Sometimes in these
 discussions I think people lose sight of the fact that, at the end of the
 day, the goal is not to construct an elegantly consistent system composed
 of theoretically pure components.  That's a *preference*, but there's
 something that system is supposed to be *doing*, and we will do what we
 need to do in order to make the system functional.

 Different solutions have different tradeoffs.  Obviously, I think Debian
 packages are in a particularly sweet spot among those tradeoffs or I
 wouldn't invest this much time in Debian, but they aren't perfect.  There
 are still tradeoffs.  (For example, Debian packages are often useless for
 research computing environments where it is absolutely mandatory that
 multiple versions of any given piece of software be co-installable and
 user-choosable.)

Of course there are trade-offs. For every rule, as sensible it might be,
 there can be a need great enough to ignore it. Using software not
properly packaged is not so different from modifying files in /usr/lib
from the distribution, compiling passwords or other hardcoded stuff
directly into programs, using binaries you have no source of or even
using those and patching the binary or many many other things you can do
and sometimes you have to do.

That there are no guidelines that are absolute and that may not be
better ignored in some cases does not change that in general they
show a useful path that leaving without a good reason is no good idea.

And a only use distro packaged software is a very useful guideline.
There are so many advantages in this that you cannot get this with
distro packages is a very good argument against anything you cannot
get this way. There will always be a case where there can be a more
important argument pushing the scales in the other direction, but at
the end of the day, the normal system administrator wants one package
management tool for all their software (or at least as few as possible)
and as few copies/different versions of common code (aka libraries,
modules, ...) around as possible. And most of the features for
developers are just additional nightmares for the administrator.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Packages with incomplete .md5sum files

2013-01-15 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Andreas Beckmann deb...@abeckmann.de [130115 11:20]:
 On 2013-01-15 10:29, Julien Cristau wrote:
  There's no requirement for md5sums files in the first place AFAIK.  How
  are incomplete md5sums worse than no md5sums?  If anything this stuff
  should be minor IMO.

 If a package is shipping no .md5sum at all, it will be created by dpkg
 at installation time.

 A partial .md5sum however will not be completed. This hides some
 shipped files from debsums, defeating its purpose.

That depends what the purpose is supposed to be. Having debsums by
default create fake .md5sum files for packages not shipping them
defeats the purpose md5sums is most useful for: to check that the
files in your filesystem are correct and where not corrupted by
faulty hardware. (As in my experience almost all of those problems
happen when writing to the disk (by faulty memory, faulty busses,
overheated mainboards or CPUs) and not to content on the disc itself).
So while incomplete .md5sums are definitely not nice and worse then
complete files, I do not see how that could be worse than not having
any .md5sum files.

Bernhard R. Link


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Accepted reprepro 4.12.5-1 (source amd64)

2013-01-07 Thread Bernhard R. Link
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Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:12:47 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.12.5-1
Distribution: unstable
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Changes: 
 reprepro (4.12.5-1) unstable; urgency=low
 .
   * new bugfix release
   - multiple documentation improvements
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Re: [RFC] Go (golang) packaging

2013-01-02 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Michael Stapelberg stapelb...@debian.org [130102 09:13]:
 Given that we already have python-* and ruby-*, I’d find golang-* more
 consistent.

We also have lib*-perl.
Ruby seems to have changed recently from lib*-ruby to ruby-*. (Does
anyone know of the reason that changed? For I only remember all the
reasons for the old naming scheme and see no reasons in favor of the new)

 Which specific tools/places do you have in mind that have to
 truncate package names?

Most GUIs will truncate depending on the size of the window.

  (and of course just “codesearch” for the binaries).
 
  I assume s/binaries/sources/? And I'd suggest to just not policy the
 No, I really meant binaries, as in “cgrep”, “cindex” and “csearch” in
 this specific case.

And what is the name of the binary package those programs will be in?

  Another question: Have you considered asking for a archive Section for
  those packages? I guess with no special section yet all those packages
  would be section libdevel as they are for static linking only, wouldn't
  they?
 As pabs has pointed out, I did that, but the general rule of thumb is
 that we want to have lots of packages first and an archive section
 second.
Too avoid packaging mistakes and to have the wording ready I'd suggest
to already prepare the wording (I guess in the section later will be
everything that is is now in libdevel plus golong toolchain packages,
while everything providing programs to be in their respective section).

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: [RFC] Go (golang) packaging

2013-01-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Michael Stapelberg michael+deb...@stapelberg.de [130101 14:45]:
 Furthermore, the package names should be e.g. “golang-codesearch” for
 the library code.google.com/p/codesearch

Please also consider codesearch-golang. Especially with longer package
names not everything can show the full name so the beginning should be
the more important information.

 (and of course just “codesearch” for the binaries).

I assume s/binaries/sources/? And I'd suggest to just not policy the
source package names at all (as there really is no one rule who fits
them all and there is no reason to have a rule there at all).

Another question: Have you considered asking for a archive Section for
those packages? I guess with no special section yet all those packages
would be section libdevel as they are for static linking only, wouldn't
they?

Bernhard R. Link


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Accepted reprepro 4.13.0-1 (source amd64)

2013-01-01 Thread Bernhard R. Link
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Format: 1.8
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 10:59:34 +0100
Source: reprepro
Binary: reprepro
Architecture: source amd64
Version: 4.13.0-1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: low
Maintainer: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Changed-By: Bernhard R. Link brl...@debian.org
Description: 
 reprepro   - Debian package repository producer
Closes: 469656 495302 696322
Changes: 
 reprepro (4.13.0-1) experimental; urgency=low
 .
   * new release
   - add signing hook to replace how Release files are signed (Closes: 469656)
   - add outhook to be called when things are changed (Closes: 495302)
   - add lsbycomponent command (Closes: 696322)
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Re: unsafe use of gpg

2012-12-14 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ansgar Burchardt ans...@debian.org [121214 16:18]:
 2, Not asking gpg to verify signatures:

 I also found packages that call gpg in the form gpg $file and expect
 gpg to verify the signature on $file and output the signed data.  Indeed
 it does so for *signed* files, but if you just give it unsigned data
 packed into an OpenPGP message, it will happily just extract that
 without caring about signatures. (One can generate those messages with
 'gpg --store'.)

 Sadly gpg doesn't seem to provide a painless way to check for a valid
 signature and extracting the signed data[2]. Or did I miss something?

Instead of inventing new ways for this, I'd suggest to instead ask
the more important question: What worth is checking for a signature
if you are not checking who is signing it?

Better either use --status-fd or use some wrapper like libgpgme to
retrieve what key actually signed it and check that information instead.

(While just dump your own keyring somewhere and assume everything in
there might sign anything and be trusted might look like an easy hack,
it hardly scales and might be quite brittle assuming quite some default
options to things like --auto-key-locate (and with any new options in
that direction that might still be added to gpg).

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Really, about udev, not init sytsems

2012-11-30 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Jon Dowland j...@debian.org [121130 16:06]:
 I do not agree that reconfiguring your machine to avoid an initrd is a normal
 standard desktop configuration. There's also several other things about your
 setup which I would argue are not standard (see below)

Will Debian come by default with initrds on all release architectures?
Squeeze was still released with some kernels without initrd support
if I remember correctly.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Really, ...

2012-11-29 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* John Paul Adrian Glaubitz glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de [121129 18:12]:
 This is actually a true valid point which I personally would accept as
 an argument against systemd. Without looking into the details, this
 seems to be something that can be fixed by a new upload, doesn't it?

Almost any actual specific problem can be fixed with a new upload.
Any reason given to believe that there will be problems left or that
remaining problems will have a bigger impact are not probable with
actual problems (because any actual problem usually can be fixed,
or claimed to be a non-problem).
I think noone claims that systemd would not be the superior design
in a world where there is bug-free, perfect software prepared to handle
every possible situation it will be thrown into. As our world has not
yet seen bug-free software handling every single situation the authors
did not think about properly, the expectation of what happens if one
runs into a not-yet fixed bug is an important issue for many people.

Free software has always been a way to avoid being helplessly at the
mercy of some software. So handing over the basics of your computer
to a much more complex system can be quite frightening for many
people around here. Claiming that it will work for everyone and that
anyone not being able to name a problem existing now has no arguments
does not help. It only makes sure people are reassured that systemd is
not for them. Combine that with vocal demands that it should be the
only allowed init process in a short time frame makes sure that there
is a big opposition (which will look for you like it has no arguments,
as no real arguments against systemd are accepted.)

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Really, ...

2012-11-29 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* John Paul Adrian Glaubitz glaub...@physik.fu-berlin.de [121129 21:14]:
 On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 08:22:41PM +0100, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
  As our world has not
  yet seen bug-free software handling every single situation the authors
  did not think about properly, the expectation of what happens if one
  runs into a not-yet fixed bug is an important issue for many people.

 Absolutely. But again, this is true for any software and this is
 *especially* true for old designs which couldn't cover certain setups
 which simply didn't exist back then.

But you have to understand that you put something that only does
promises against something that exists. Something that exists means
that people have experiences with it, now how it behaves, know how
to debug it and now how to make it work again when it breaks.
On the other side is systemd which has not yet been available in
a single Debian release and could not yet prove itself anywhere.

So if it would be proposed as some more init system to support
or a cool new stuff to experiment with it, you would not get that
much emotional reactions.

But as people demanded making it the only available system before
it could prove itself and while all most people know is that it
is quite a different design which wants to solve all the problems
at the same time (which often enough means it creates more problems
than it solves) and that it has ties which other projects people
have had no good experiences with (for enough people pulse-audio
is a synonym of my sound is not working) you should have a
different reaction than ridiculing people not wanting to bet
their future on it.

 You know the famous quote: 640 kB ought to be enough!

But I also know which happened to the 80286, which offered
quite a lot more memory and many nice things like fine
grained memory proection: It only looked nice on the paper
but (with some noble exceptions) was just not worth the hassle,
so that people prefered to stay with a 1 MB limit for many
years to come.

 Yes, I see your point. But again, what I said before, how many people
 are actually digging into such low-level code? Someone who is jumping
 into kernel or plumberland development always has to have a certain
 background knowledge. It requires more skills and experience as
 opposed to writing desktop applications or smart phone apps.

This is exactly the mindset that scares people away from systemd.

An application that does not behave is no big problem. One can easily
ditch it and replace it withanother. One has all the bells and whistles
of your full desktop available while you debug it. It's all quite well
understood.

If your init system does not work -- and one day it will not work,
there is no way that can be avoided, there is no perfect bug-free
software out there and especially when the task is to cope with
all possible hardware and their little quirks and timing problems,
all the different combinations of services and daemons out there
and so on -- you are set back much more.

So if you end up in a situation like that, what do you do as user?
Some will say oh, it does not work. Let's try to reinstall the machine
and if that does not help let's try another distribution. Perhaps the
next release in two years will work. Or perhaps what I wanted to do
is not that important, so I will just not do that.

But for many people that would not be a solution but the absolute
nightmare. Being at the mercy of the computer; not being able to decide
what your machine does and what not; being totally powerless and
dependent on whether someone has decided that what you want to do
makes sense or not.

So being a more complex thing means it must be easier. Easier to
understand what it does. Easier to understand why something does
not work. Easier to fix it once it breaks.

 But do you really think that we should keep every part of the system
 brain-dead simple that everyone understands at the cost of reliablity
 and performance?

Do you really not understand why people think that?

And what does reliability mean if it can stop working and I can do
nothing against that at all?

 I see your argument about keeping stuff simple, but again, if you want
 to be able to solve more complex tasks with your computer, the
 software on it itself has to become more complex.

Strangely the complexity of the solution has seldom been related
to the complexity of the problem and always been the opposite of
reliablity in the past. So this is merely a false assertion.

  Claiming that it will work for everyone and that
  anyone not being able to name a problem existing now has no arguments
  does not help.

 Do System V Init or Upstart work in EVERY single use case?

Actually, all my experiences with upstart has been when it does not
work. And then it was always a pain to work with. So in my experience
System V Init is quite superior to Upstart.

And the big advantage of System V Init is that everyone can diagnose
and fix it. Everyone knows how to add some echo

Re: the right bug severity in case of data corruption

2012-11-27 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl [121127 16:32]:
 So, what's the reason mbox is still the default in Debian?

Because it works and causes the smallest amount of problems
given all the other changes.

 Among other gains, data loss because of mboxo would be gone.

Continuing to call that data loss makes it quite hard to take
anything else you say seriously.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Mass bug filling about proprietary code of adobe in our type1 fonts

2012-11-25 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl [121125 15:20]:
 On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 02:07:03PM +, Bart Martens wrote:
  On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 02:34:34PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
   If there is code in a font that has a license attached to it which does
   not meet the DFSG, then it should go out of Debian; not because we're
   not allowed to keep it in Debian by the author of said code, but because
   we don't *want* it to be in Debian, according to the DFSG.
 
  I agree with Wouter on the above.  Moreover, if it doesn't have a license, 
  or
  it's not clear whether there is a license, or if the license doesn't allow
  redistribution, then it must go out of Debian not because we want it out but
  because we're not allowed to redistribute it, not even in section non-free.

 You might want to ask Adobe first, though, before removing anything.

The EULAs of the different Adobe products are easily found in the net.
And they also list many pragraphs about the stuff embedded into
documents. Most of them are quite restrictive. For example for pdf forms
(those pdf documents where the receiver can fill in stuff) created with
Adobe programs, every organisation might as far as I read it either only
distribute 500 different pdf forms to an unlimited amount of people, or
a unlimited number of pdf forms to at most 500 different people (no
matter how many normal licenses of the programs you have, I guess you
need some special mass pdf form license otherwise).
If I remember correctly for embedded font software (I think that means
true type and non-rasterized postscript fonts), there is the permission
to place a copy in one (and only one) printer. And an extra permission
for a copy shop you bring your document in to use that font. And stuff
like that.
I.e. most stuff will non be suitable for Debian main. Some stuff might
be suitable for non-free. Many things will not be distributable at all.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: the right bug severity in case of data corruption

2012-11-24 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Christoph Anton Mitterer cales...@scientia.net [121124 17:42]:
 I've recently reported several bugs against MUAs and mail tools, that
 employ the mboxo (note the trailing o) format to either store or
 import mails.

 So,... bringing this up here at d-d, as I think it would be good for
 Debian to have a well thought position in how to handle this family of
 corruption bugs...

I'd say if you complain about a tool not documenting what mbox format
it is using, that is a minor bug.

If you want an option to also support another mbox format but mboxo,
then I'd vote for wishlist severity.

Ambiquity about lines starting with from in mboxo format is the same
like storing the value 0007 in an integer and getting 7 back when
asking for the value. Or like storing a filename in a FAT filesystem
and getting it back when asking for a file with the name converted
to upper case.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: [PROPOSAL v2] Orphaning another maintainer's packages

2012-10-31 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Andreas Tille andr...@an3as.eu [121031 08:06]:
  Consider the case where a maintainer objects.  In that case you're
  counting in the previous long waiting time a period which the
  orphaner probably thinks shows disinterest in the package, but during
  which the maintainer may well feel (for part of the time at least)
  that the package simply didn't need any attention.
 
 I keep on thinking that we are talking about different packages.  If a
 maintainer is simply feels that the packages didn't need any attention
 these are not packages which are for instance:
 
   - lagging *way* behind upstream (regarding time or version number)

There were some cases in the past where the maintainer did not package
new upstream version because they had some serious issues (or because
they only wanted to follow stable releases in cases where stable and
preview releases were hard to distinguish for a outsider) while someone
else mistook this for a missing action.

   - leaving open bugs simply unanswered (=do not give any reasons
 for not working on a bug)

Who of us never put some unimportant bug that would need some longer
investigating in a row to make sure it is actually not a bug and
forgot to post a little note of will look into this later.

 I do not speak about feelings but measurable facts.

Many facts are not black and white, but in practise there is much of
gray.

  Also this argument is a form of this has been waiting for ages so now
  it is urgent which I don't really agree with (unless there's an
  actual deadline of course).

 I would rather call it a this has been waiting for ages so you are
 obviosely not interested and no harm is done if I take action nowish.

This assumes that it actually has been waiting for so long. Different
people often see things from a different perspective. And the point
of this waiting is exactly to make sure that this view is not missing.
If it were so clear when a package is neglected and when not, we could
just do without the whole waiting period and giving the maintainer
chance to object and simply hijack the package directly.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: [PROPOSAL v2] Orphaning another maintainer's packages

2012-10-31 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Andreas Tille andr...@an3as.eu [121031 09:43]:
 On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 09:04:23AM +0100, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
  Who of us never put some unimportant bug that would need some longer
  investigating in a row to make sure it is actually not a bug and
  forgot to post a little note of will look into this later.

 Me.

Does this also include packages where you are listed as Uploader? ;-

 It is a question of respect to the bug reporter to at least respond
 to the issue.

I do not disagree that it is something that should be done. But that
does not mean it is never forgotten. (Or one discusses with the
submitter privately and forgets to follow up in the bug report or
or or).

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Mandatory -dbg packages

2012-10-28 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Philip Ashmore cont...@philipashmore.com [121028 09:12]:
 Yeah, in (cough)Fedora, kdbg even offers to download and install
 debug packages for you.
 Debug packages also make back-traces more than useless, and
 (cough)Ubuntu offers to download debug packages which it installs
 and re-examines the back-trace to see if more are needed.

While having some way to get the stripped debug info from the installed
packages is nice to more easily get some debug information or to
retroactively make a backtrace a bit more verbose, it is still not
enough for all cases of debugging. Ideal debugging information you get
by locally rebuilding the needed libraries with
DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=noopt nostrip and installing those.
(Sadly not all libraries support noopt, but it's getting much better as a
side effect of the current hardening effords).

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Mandatory -dbg packages

2012-10-28 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk [121028 17:02]:
 There are plenty of bugs that involve 'undefined behaviour' that in
 practice depends on whether optimisation is enabled.  Unless you have a
 good idea what's going wrong, how do you know that 'noopt' won't hide
 the bug?

If the bug still shows up with the library recompiled with 'noopt', then
no harm done. If it is a bug in the library, you want to look there
anyway (and you will most likely want to compile different parts of it
with or without optimisation or any other technique; in any case you
will want more of the library than just the binary and some debugging
symbols of it). The only case where a noopt library variant is a
disadvantage is a very ugly case of heisenbug, that is hidden by the
slightly changed library.

 Also, gdb and the GNU toolchain have recently got a lot better
 at handling highly optimised code (tracking variables in registers,
 treating inlined functions as logically separate functions, etc.).

Yeah, they got a lot better. But even if gdb got perfect in that regard
it can still not show what isn't there (like the value of a variable
(or function argument passed as register) no longer stored anywhere.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Bugs filed in unexpected places

2012-10-26 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Thibaut Paumard thib...@debian.org [121026 15:54]:
 I don't see a reason to move it away from wnpp: its great to have a
 central place for that information, but I agree it is useful to have
 the info forwarded to other places (such as the PTS, and perhaps the
 package's own bug page).

Having a central page to show all of them is nice. Having them in one
pseudo page is not really the optimal solution for that. (I usually
only look for http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/work_needing instead
because https://bugs.debian.org/wnpp is just too slow.)
Putting it to the package's data is a much more logical place, easier
to find, harder to miss. Better collect the data to show them in
some central place also instead.

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Discarding uploaded binary packages

2012-10-20 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Chow Loong Jin hyper...@debian.org [121020 18:10]:
 The only argument I have seen for binary uploads is to ensure that DDs have
 built the package prior to uploading it. But as someone else pointed out 
 earlier
 in the thread, we seem to be trusting DDs a lot in other aspects, so why not
 trust that they test-build packages prior to uploading them as well?

Because trusting someone in one thing is not the same as trusting
someone in another. Trust works best when there is accountablity.
Having the binary file around, even if it is not easily accessible
on some remote archive, noone can claim I tested this, it just did
work here, something must be different on the buildds and hope to
get away with it.

Given that source only uploads where tried in another project and
the results are scary, this accountability might make the difference
to make it work.

And to also name another argument: having the files actually uploaded
means it is easy to add additional checks. (Like starting with making
sure the list of files does not differ between the two versions, or
some check to see only versions of generated dependencies differ but
not the packages depended and so on).

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Discarding uploaded binary packages

2012-10-17 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Michael Gilbert mgilb...@debian.org [121016 04:59]:
 Anyway, all of these build system path sanitization issues can be
 eliminated by using the buildds for all architectures, since paths
 will start with at least /build that requires root-level action to
 exist on users' systems.

They are not eliminated by using only buildds. They are only moved
towards people that want to build their privately patched software
then, which is something they have a right to do. A package not
building properly or differently when built in a clean system with
all the build-depended packages installed and all the
build-conflicted packages not installed is a critical bug.

Recreating binary packages uploaded by maintainers has some merrits,
but this is definitely not one of them...

Bernhard R. Link


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Re: Discarding uploaded binary packages

2012-10-17 Thread Bernhard R. Link
* Michael Gilbert mgilb...@debian.org [121017 22:19]:
 Anyway, reading again, I not sure that your reply actually considers
 build path sanitization problems, which is what my statement was
 about.

I'm stating that doing all the builds on buildds will not avoid the
need to fix the package. (Unless you are arguing that people locally
modifying their packages are supposed to get security problems).

Bernhard R. Link


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