Re: Please add debian_releases to base-files (was Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster)

On 20 April 2018 at 15:46, Marvin Renich wrote: > Package: base-files > Version: 10.1 > Severity: wishlist > > * Stephan Seitz [180420 07:38]: >> On Do, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:00:37 +0200, Christoph Biedl wrote: >> > But being human I prefer names

Re: Please add debian_releases to base-files (was Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster)

* Emilio Pozuelo Monfort [180420 11:00]: > On 20/04/18 16:46, Marvin Renich wrote: > > I would also like /etc/debian_version to contain both number and name, > > but I suspect there is some resistance to this on the grounds that > > scripts may be using $(cat

Re: Please add debian_releases to base-files (was Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster)

Marvin, > I have often wanted to have on my system a text file containing the > correspondence between code name and release number. This appears to be already in the archive in a number of places. For example, in `debdate`, `debian-handbook` or even in the `debian- timeline` package if you

Re: Please add debian_releases to base-files (was Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster)

On 20/04/18 16:46, Marvin Renich wrote: > I would also like /etc/debian_version to contain both number and name, > but I suspect there is some resistance to this on the grounds that > scripts may be using $(cat /etc/debian_version) for comparisons. > Perhaps /etc/debian_codename? Since

Please add debian_releases to base-files (was Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster)

Package: base-files Version: 10.1 Severity: wishlist * Stephan Seitz [180420 07:38]: > On Do, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:00:37 +0200, Christoph Biedl wrote: > > But being human I prefer names over numbers, even if it's just for > > aesthetic reason - "buster" is just

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Do, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:00:37 +0200, Christoph Biedl wrote: But being human I prefer names over numbers, even if it's just for aesthetic reason - "buster" is just more comfortable than "debian10". No, it’s not. I know that my systems are running Debian 8 or 9, but I always have to think if

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On 2018-04-19 23:00, Christoph Biedl wrote: Philipp Kern wrote... Turns out that this is a terrible idea. Because? People will start to rely on names for sorting again. Regardless if it's the right thing technically people are people and will use what tools they have available. We

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Russ Allbery writes: > Adam Borowski writes: >> Thus, there are locales where a purely ASCII word sorts differently >> when capitalized and when not. > Yes, including en_US. Just to head off the noise of the corrections for this error, this last should

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Adam Borowski writes: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:19:46AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: >> That said, nearly all US English writers will just omit the accents >> anyway. At least US English (I can't speak for UK) really aggressively >> drops accent marks. > About dropping

Collation discrepencies between locales [was: Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster]

On 19/04/2018 22:45, Holger Levsen wrote: > I now wondered if it's not only en_GB.utf8 which is "different", but also > the NZ and US variants sort like that (and so differently than C)... not > sure if en_FR.utf8 exist, but using it, it sorts differently / like C ;) > > (probably because it

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Philipp Kern wrote... > Turns out that this is a terrible idea. Because? > We should use numeric values for > sorting. (And Ubuntu now does the same thing on the technical side.) From a technical point of view there is no need for codenames at all. But being human I prefer names over numbers,

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 09:35:25AM +1200, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote: > In the C locale, all uppercase letters are sorted before all lowercase > letters: > > $ echo -e "buster\nStretch" | LC_COLLATE=C sort > Stretch > buster > > In en_GB, by comparison: > > $ echo -e "buster\nStretch" |

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:19:46AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > That said, nearly all US English writers will just omit the accents > anyway. At least US English (I can't speak for UK) really aggressively > drops accent marks. About dropping accents: do you know what can upcase('i') and

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Mi, Apr 18, 2018 at 08:52:25 +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:14:50AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: specifically, what locale sorts english words differently than LANG=C? Estonian (et_EE) sorts z between s and t. Boah, thanks for all the examples. I didn’t know you could

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On 19/04/18 03:11, Stephan Seitz wrote: Can you please give an example for the sorting difference in different locales if you only have english words (and I would say it means only ASCII in this case)? In the C locale, all uppercase letters are sorted before all lowercase letters: $ echo

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Hi Gunnar, > > Can you please give an example for the sorting difference in different > > locales if you only have english words (and I would say it means only ASCII > > in this case)? […] > But... Ok, lets stick to 7-bit ASCII as defined. When I was in primary > school, "ch" and "ll" were

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:14:50AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 02:47:11PM +, Holger Levsen wrote: > > > >yes, sorting depends on the locale... :) > > specifically, what locale sorts english words differently than LANG=C? Czech (cs_CZ) for one. % cat animals cheetah

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:14:50AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 02:47:11PM +, Holger Levsen wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:23:29AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 04:15:59PM +0200, Aurelien Jarno wrote: > > > > Please define "sorted

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Matthew Crews writes: > As far as diacritics go, American English is practically devoid of > them. Where they are present, native (American) English speakers > basically ignore them, so the words résumé (n) and resume (v) share the > same spot in any given English

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:19:05AM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: Stephan Seitz dijo [Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 05:11:47PM +0200]: On Mi, Apr 18, 2018 at 02:47:11 +, Holger Levsen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:23:29AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > really? there's more than one alphabetical

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Matthew Crews dijo [Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 01:10:06PM -0400]: > On April 18, 2018 9:19 AM, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > > But why would ü not be part of the sorting? Yes, that was my example > > before you censored my thought process - In Spanish, [áéíóú] and > > [aeiou] share the same

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On April 18, 2018 9:19 AM, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > But why would ü not be part of the sorting? Yes, that was my example > before you censored my thought process - In Spanish, [áéíóú] and > [aeiou] share the same spot while ordering, as do ñ and n, as do u and > ü (and we have no

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Stephan Seitz dijo [Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 05:11:47PM +0200]: > On Mi, Apr 18, 2018 at 02:47:11 +, Holger Levsen wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:23:29AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > > > really? there's more than one alphabetical order for english words? > > yes, sorting depends on the

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Mi, Apr 18, 2018 at 11:14:50 -0400, Michael Stone wrote: specifically, what locale sorts english words differently than LANG=C? Since English words (or texts) can have 8bit characters you may get a different sorting in in different locales. If you mean ASCII words I don’t know of any

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Mi, Apr 18, 2018 at 02:47:11 +, Holger Levsen wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:23:29AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: really? there's more than one alphabetical order for english words? yes, sorting depends on the locale... :) Can you please give an example for the sorting difference in

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 02:47:11PM +, Holger Levsen wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:23:29AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 04:15:59PM +0200, Aurelien Jarno wrote: > Please define "sorted order", not everybody order letters the same way. really? there's more than one

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:23:29AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 04:15:59PM +0200, Aurelien Jarno wrote: > > Please define "sorted order", not everybody order letters the same way. > really? there's more than one alphabetical order for english words? yes, sorting depends

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 04:15:59PM +0200, Aurelien Jarno wrote: Please define "sorted order", not everybody order letters the same way. really? there's more than one alphabetical order for english words? Mike Stone

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On 2018-04-17 22:34, Christoph Biedl wrote: > Also, choosing the names in sorted order (modulo wraparound) would > create a list in historic order of the releases, easing some assessment > when talking about releases. That's what Ubuntu does, although using Please define "sorted order", not

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Hi, When all people can complain about are the codenames, it means we are doing things fairly well :) On 18/04/18 08:20, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > On Wed, 2018-04-18 at 11:16 +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: >> No, users and, I suspect, a large part of admins and developers cannot >> easily say

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 09:20:11AM +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > > No, users and, I suspect, a large part of admins and developers cannot > > easily say which of two codenames is newer, and it doesn't matter what are > > those two codenames. Numeric versions are usually used to help with this, >

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Wed, 2018-04-18 at 11:16 +0500, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > No, users and, I suspect, a large part of admins and developers cannot > easily say which of two codenames is newer, and it doesn't matter what are > those two codenames. Numeric versions are usually used to help with this, > but not

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:34:22PM +0200, Christoph Biedl wrote: > There are people who don't follow every single action in Debian, plain > stables users for example. For them it's helpful to tell the releases > apart easily as they might not have the precise names and their order in > mind. The

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

On 17.04.2018 22:34, Christoph Biedl wrote: > Also, choosing the names in sorted order (modulo wraparound) would > create a list in historic order of the releases, easing some assessment > when talking about releases. That's what Ubuntu does, although using > consecutive letters is nice but not

Re: Bits from the release team: full steam ahead towards buster

Emilio Pozuelo Monfort wrote... > We are about halfway through the buster development cycle, and a release > update was overdue. Thanks for all the updates, let's make this an exiting ride. But briefly bleating by boldly bringing balking bits ... > Future codenames > So