Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
Daniel Stone wrote: On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 06:21:58PM +0200, David N. Welton wrote: Adding readline support, while you're at it, would be really nice:-) And alias quit to exit. :) type.exit.you.dolt A 127.0.0.1 quitIN CNAME type.exit.you.dolt.windsormachine.com. Works nicely ;) mike
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 06:21:58PM +0200, David N. Welton wrote: Adding readline support, while you're at it, would be really nice:-) And alias quit to exit. :) -d, who now uses dig -- Daniel Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Tue 01 May 2001, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Apr 28, Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, but who have choose that nslookup is deprecated in favour of the other two tools ? The people who wrote BIND and developed a very large part of the DNS infrastructure, the group of people who knows about DNS more than most other people in the world. Heh. *I* know more about DNS than most other people in the world (and that's not saying much). nslookup is broken, please let it die its long-deserved death. What's broken about it, apart from the brokenness that's in the current version about the verbose warnings and missing features (eg. ls) ? AFAIK it does exactly what it was designed to do. This is like saying ed is broken, use emacs, while ed performs its task perfectly. So, please explain what is really broken about it. After all, it's NSlookup, not HOSTlookup or whatever. Both dig and host are too noisy for me, although I won't hesitate to use them when I need their specific functionality. Paul Slootman -- home: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.wurtel.demon.nl/ work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.murphy.nl/ debian: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ isdn4linux: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.isdn4linux.org/
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 01:27:56PM +0200, Paul Slootman wrote: On Tue 01 May 2001, Marco d'Itri wrote: nslookup is broken, please let it die its long-deserved death. What's broken about it, apart from the brokenness that's in the current version about the verbose warnings and missing features (eg. ls) ? AFAIK it does exactly what it was designed to do. This is like saying ed is broken, use emacs, while ed performs its task perfectly. See http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/faq/tinydns.html#nslookup f.e. Gerrit. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] innominate AG the linux architects tel: +49.30.308806-0 fax: -77 http://www.innominate.com
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, 2 May 2001 13:39:17 +0200, Gerrit Pape wrote: See http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/faq/tinydns.html#nslookup f.e. djbdns? you really mean it? *brrzzzap* Suprise, you're dead. [1] EOT anyone? [2] Regards, Alexander [1] I happen to like that song... [2] Mutt has scoring abilities, right? djb sux, so... thanks for the idea -- Head, wall. Wall, head. THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK. Alexander Koch - - WWJD - aka Efraim - PGP 0xE7694969 - KOCH1-RIPE
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On May 02, Alexander Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2 May 2001 13:39:17 +0200, Gerrit Pape wrote: See http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/faq/tinydns.html#nslookup f.e. djbdns? you really mean it? Actually this is one of the few things about which DJB is right. -- ciao, Marco
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On May 02, Richard Kettlewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That looks like a requirement to remove a few lines of code, rather than to retire the whole program. So what else is wrong with it? The fact it hides important debugging information should be enough, but if you need other arguments please search with google groups in comp.protocols.dns.bind, where this topic has already been discussed to death many times. -- ciao, Marco
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 02:30:21PM +, Alexander Koch wrote: On Wed, 2 May 2001 13:39:17 +0200, Gerrit Pape wrote: See http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/faq/tinydns.html#nslookup f.e. djbdns? you really mean it? yes. *brrzzzap* [2] Mutt has scoring abilities, right? djb sux, so... thanks for the idea What makes you reacting so blind and childish? This is not the topic of this thread, just notice that there are debian people running djbdns - relaxed, bind-free. Not having real djbdns (+co) packages in debian is a pity. Gerrit. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] innominate AG the linux architects tel: +49.30.308806-0 fax: -77 http://www.innominate.com
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
from the secret journal of Gerrit Pape ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): What makes you reacting so blind and childish? This is not the topic of this thread, just notice that there are debian people running djbdns - relaxed, bind-free. Not having real djbdns (+co) packages in debian is a pity. Closed-source software is even more of a pity. DJB's license (or lack there of) makes it impossible to distribute binaries that aren't compiled by DJB himself. You're free to run whatever you want on your machines, but don't expect everyone to follow your lead. I haven't been following this thread, but shouldn't it have ended or moved to another list as soon as someone said upstream? -- Jacob Kuntz Technology Director The Real Estate Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
Adding readline support, while you're at it, would be really nice:-) It isn't readline, but check out the nslookup function that comes with zsh.
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 04:02:33PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote: Closed-source software is even more of a pity. DJB's license (or lack there of) makes it impossible to distribute binaries that aren't compiled by DJB himself. i certainly hope you speak out of ignorance, i would hate to think that you are deliberately trying to mislead us http://cr.yp.to/distributors.html May we distribute binaries? You may distribute a precompiled package if o installing your package produces exactly the same files, in exactly the same locations, that a user would obtain by installing one of my packages listed above; o your package behaves correctly, i.e., the same way as normal installations of my package on all other systems; and o your package's creator warrants that he has made a good-faith attempt to ensure that your package behaves correctly. All installations must work the same way; any variation is a bug. If there's something about a system (compiler, libraries, kernel, hardware, whatever) that changes the behavior of my package, then that platform is not supported, and you are not permitted to distribute binaries for it. yes, this is most certainly non-free. this is a shame, i agree. this is not closed-source in the terms of netscape where you cannot even take a peek at the source. you are free to peek, audit, and muck with[1], to your hearts content. but to say that you cannot distribute binaries at all is a simple untruth. -john note: debian systems can produce ``working'' djb tools, so we can produce binary versions, if we were so inclined. [1] http://cr.yp.to/softwarelaw.html this applies to the end user, not the packager, or so i read it. IANAL
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
John H. Robinson, IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 04:02:33PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote: Closed-source software is even more of a pity. DJB's license (or lack there of) makes it impossible to distribute binaries that aren't compiled by DJB himself. i certainly hope you speak out of ignorance, i would hate to think that you are deliberately trying to mislead us [...] You may distribute a precompiled package if o installing your package produces exactly the same files, in exactly the same locations, that a user would obtain by installing one of my packages listed above; If you compile it yourself, the files will not be exactly the same. I'm not sure if timestamps are embedded in binary files on Linux, but even if not, the odds that a different compiler will produce the exact same files as his are unlikely. It means you have to link against the exact same libraries as djb. So, makes it impossible to distribute binaries that aren't compiled by DJB himself sounds pretty accurate to me. It may not be the original intent of the license, but what it looks like. -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - In a variety of flavors! Stellar rays prove fibbing never pays. Embezzlement is another matter.
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 04:02:33PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote: from the secret journal of Gerrit Pape ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): What makes you reacting so blind and childish? This is not the topic of this thread, just notice that there are debian people running djbdns - relaxed, bind-free. Not having real djbdns (+co) packages in debian is a pity. Closed-source software is even more of a pity. DJB's license (or lack there Uf, read the source, technical and library documentation at http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html of) makes it impossible to distribute binaries that aren't compiled by DJB Huh? http://cr.yp.to/distributors.html http://www.djbdns.org/ http://innominate.org/~pape/Debian/djbdns.html I haven't been following this thread, but shouldn't it have ended or moved to another list as soon as someone said upstream? I am willing to stop or move this thread if wrong facts are clarified. Gerrit. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] innominate AG the linux architects tel: +49.30.308806-0 fax: -77 http://www.innominate.com
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
from the secret journal of Gerrit Pape ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 04:02:33PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote:
from the secret journal of Gerrit Pape ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
What makes you reacting so blind and childish? This is not the topic of
this
thread, just notice that there are debian people running djbdns - relaxed,
bind-free. Not having real djbdns (+co) packages in debian is a pity.
Closed-source software is even more of a pity. DJB's license (or lack there
Uf, read the source, technical and library documentation at
http://cr.yp.to/djbdns.html
Closed may have been the wrong word. Non-free would have been more
accurate. You can study DJB's code all you want, but not your own binaries
or modified source.
I am willing to stop or move this thread if wrong facts are clarified.
I was referring the the parent thread, which was on the subject of nslookup
being depricated. Since this is not a debian issue, so much as a BIND issue,
it should be discussed on their lists, not ours.
I read somewhere (probably either oreilly's dns book or the bind admin
guide) that nslookup is an innacurate tool anyway, so I'm not the least bit
sorry to see it go. IIRC, nslookup tries to mimic the behavior of the
resolver libraries rather than using the libraries themselves.
{host,mx,ns,soa,zone,,txt} are each less typing anyway.
--
Jacob Kuntz
Technology Director
The Real Estate Company
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 04:37:33PM -0400, Alan Shutko wrote: John H. Robinson, IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You may distribute a precompiled package if o installing your package produces exactly the same files, in exactly the same locations, that a user would obtain by installing one of my packages listed above; If you compile it yourself, the files will not be exactly the same. I'm not sure if timestamps are embedded in binary files on Linux, but even if not, the odds that a different compiler will produce the exact same files as his are unlikely. It means you have to link against the exact same libraries as djb. So, makes it impossible to distribute binaries that aren't compiled by DJB himself sounds pretty accurate to me. It may not be the original intent of the license, but what it looks like. djb uses openbsd. i do not know if you know this or not, but this is what he uses. his tools, however, can be used on a plethora of systems. from Solaris to HPUX to FreeBSD to, yes, Debian GNU/Linux. not all systems are going to use the EXACT SAME LIBRARIES and EXACT SAME TIMESTAMPS that djb has on HIS OpenBSD system. so we take a second look: o installing your package produces exactly the same files, in exactly the same locations, that a user would obtain by installing one of my packages listed above; it says ``that a user would obtain by installing''SO this means: on (say) a Debian 2.1 system, if a user were to get the tarbal, and compile it against the default libs, as per the instructions, and install as per the instructions, the binary installation should match. this means the same locations, against the same libraries. this also means (to my reading) no after-market patches, for the binary package. *geesh* but i guess i read ``exactly the same files'' differently from ``the same exact files'' (the first i read as ``if there are files a b and c in the one, there must be a b and c in the other. no ommisions.'' the second i read as ``a bit by bit comparison must be equivalent.'' and on ANY two different OS's this is remarkably silly. please people! common sense!) -john who really really does not want to be the djb apologist here :(
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
from the secret journal of Jacob Kuntz ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
Closed may have been the wrong word. Non-free would have been more
accurate. You can study DJB's code all you want, but not your own binaries
^
distribute.
{host,mx,ns,soa,zone,,txt} are each less typing anyway.
Not that there's anything wrong with dig, I just prefer the simplifed syntax
and output format of the above util. Host, BTW is one binary that behaves
differenly based on it's name.
--
Jacob Kuntz
Technology Director
The Real Estate Company
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 09:52:04PM +0200, Gerrit Pape wrote: Not having real djbdns (+co) packages in debian is a pity. As the maintainer of the djbdns-installer package, I feel obliged to mention that there are quite a few people using this package and they are quite happy with it. It requires no extra development knowledge to install, and the end effect is exactly what one would obtain by downloading djbdns.tar.gz, setting conf-home to /usr, and compiling and installing. The part where the pity comes in is that his license isn't free enough for any binary package of his software to be included in main. --Adam -- Adam McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
from the secret journal of John H. Robinson, IV ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): it says ``that a user would obtain by installing''SO this means: on (say) a Debian 2.1 system, if a user were to get the tarbal, and compile it against the default libs, as per the instructions, and install as per the instructions, the binary installation should match. this means the same locations, against the same libraries. this also means (to my reading) no after-market patches, for the binary package. I'm not sure if this has come up before, but since DJB likes to install in /var, wouldn't any Debian package fail the policy check? *geesh* [echoed by the crowed] -- Jacob Kuntz, who wants to high-5 jon for not apologizing for djb Technology Director The Real Estate Company [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
John H. Robinson, IV [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: it says ``that a user would obtain by installing'' Sorry, I thought he was referring to binary packages above. -- Alan Shutko [EMAIL PROTECTED] - In a variety of flavors! Well, Jim, I'm not much of an actor either.
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 04:56:28PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote: from the secret journal of Gerrit Pape ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Closed may have been the wrong word. Non-free would have been more accurate. You can study DJB's code all you want, but not your own binaries or modified source. again, not true. i provided the second link to refute this: http://cr.yp.to/softwarelaw.html Software user's rights In the United States, once you own a copy of a program, you can back it up, compile it, run it, and even modify it as necessary, without permission from the copyright holder. See 17 USC 117. at the bottom, it says: As long as you're not distributing the software, you have nothing to worry about. for the distributors, there is that other page that has some poorly written and seemingly too confusing wording in it. short answer: most djb code fails to meet the Debian Free Software Guidelines. -john
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 05:13:08PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote: from the secret journal of John H. Robinson, IV ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I'm not sure if this has come up before, but since DJB likes to install in /var, wouldn't any Debian package fail the policy check? that is just qmail and the other MTA related crap that does that. the other dns stuff really wants to go into /service (publicfile is very similar) the debian packager gets around that by using the qmail-src package that then builds a FHS compliant qmail .deb. there are still symlinks from /var/qmail/* to where the files really live. this provides the compatibility with those that ``know'' that rcpthosts is in the /var/qmail/control dir, and not the /etc/qmail dir -john
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Wed, May 02, 2001 at 05:13:08PM -0400, Jacob Kuntz wrote: from the secret journal of John H. Robinson, IV ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): it says ``that a user would obtain by installing''SO this means: on (say) a Debian 2.1 system, if a user were to get the tarbal, and compile it against the default libs, as per the instructions, and install as per the instructions, the binary installation should match. this means the same locations, against the same libraries. this also means (to my reading) no after-market patches, for the binary package. I'm not sure if this has come up before, but since DJB likes to install in /var, wouldn't any Debian package fail the policy check? You sir, have obviously never installed djbdns if you think djb wants it installed in /var. It's easy to argue from ignorance, though. *geesh* [echoed by the crowed] Oh, bravo. -- Nathan Norman - Staff Engineer | A good plan today is better Micromuse Ltd. | than a perfect plan tomorrow. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Patton pgpWf8lIDdYBW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Enough said. Fuck him. On Wed, 2 May 2001, Gerrit Pape wrote: http://cr.yp.to/distributors.html - -- Sacred cows make the best burgers Who is John Galt? [EMAIL PROTECTED], that's who!!! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBOvDMLR9mehuYcOjMEQKEmgCgv4EwW+oSR3rxjV2QXKoel0YLVWkAoMuW 3t+OVWOqO+U3rLTb6wUumkW1 =9YIc -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
On Apr 28, Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, but who have choose that nslookup is deprecated in favour of the other two tools ? The people who wrote BIND and developed a very large part of the DNS infrastructure, the group of people who knows about DNS more than most other people in the world. nslookup is broken, please let it die its long-deserved death. -- ciao, Marco
why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
Since about a month, seems to me that I have to use dig and I feel this situation as an imposition. First, the nslookup start message says that nslookup is 'deprecated' and tell me to use dig or host instead. If I don't want to see this message I have to use -silent option ... OK, but who have choose that nslookup is deprecated in favour of the other two tools ? I prefer to leave to debian users the freedom of choose whatever dns tools to use for dns query ... Second, nslookup appear to me to lost many of its feature. e.g. the 'ls' command now is unsupported (the docs still mention this command ). Is this a way to force the migration to dig or host Why we have to remove nsllokup from debian ? I like nslookup and I don't' want to use dig :- Cheers -- - Zack - Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ# 33538863 Home Page: http://www.students.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro Undergraduate Student of Computer Science at University of Bologna, Italy SysAdm of verdicchio.students.cs.unibo.it (130.136.3.134) Information wants to be Open pgpPVp4hvdqmS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
Previously Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: OK, but who have choose that nslookup is deprecated in favour of the other two tools ? It's authors. Why we have to remove nsllokup from debian ? You are free to take an old bind source and create a nslookup package based on those. Wichert. -- / Generally uninteresting signature - ignore at your convenience \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D |
Re: why dig ? I wanna use nslookup !
Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Previously Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: OK, but who have choose that nslookup is deprecated in favour of the other two tools ? It's authors. Why we have to remove nsllokup from debian ? You are free to take an old bind source and create a nslookup package based on those. Adding readline support, while you're at it, would be really nice:-) Ciao, -- David N. Welton Free Software: http://people.debian.org/~davidw/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/ Personal: http://www.efn.org/~davidw/ Work: http://www.innominate.com/
