Francesco Poli writes:
Isn't chrony a possible replacement?
It conflicts with ntp, among other things...
Chrony doesn't include drivers for gps receivers, atomic clocks, etc. It
is also not well known. People would say Debian is useless! it doesn't
even ship ntp!.
--
John Hasler
Chrony
needs a choice of venue clause in
order to file suit against you in his home jurisdiction?
--
John Hasler
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Henning Makholm writes:
A bicycle trip to my local courthouse: DKK 2, including write-offs on the
bicycle. A trip to some court in America: Tens of thousands of DKKs.
If I were to sue you for infringing the copyright on my GPL software I
would file in US district court.
--
John Hasler
, do nothing regardless of the presence or absence of a choice of
venue clause in my license: suing him in the US would be a complete waste
of time and I have no money for international ventures.
...Or get him extradited somehow.
Extradition has nothing to do with civil lawsuits.
--
John Hasler
on the
licensed software.
Attempting to use a copyright license to extend trademark rights beyond the
statutory ones may be copyright misuse. That could lead to the abuser
losing his copyright, his trademark, or both.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
Wouter Verhelst writes:
This is good, but it's not true anywhere else; so if the reverse
engineering has been done outside the EU, there's a problem.
Reverse-engineering is legal in the USA.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
of the document packages we distribute.
Note that I am not advocating such a package. I think such things belong
on Web sites, not in Debian.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
the copyright on his contribution.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
reasonable thing.
If the file was created by hand-assembly then assembler is the preferred
form for modification.
--
John Hasler You may treat this work as if it
[EMAIL PROTECTED] were in the public domain.
Dancing Horse HillI waive all rights.
Elmwood, Wisconsin
Raul Miller writes:
We should probably have someone volunteer their time to spi to send out
the bills.
How about selling the whole bundle to a collection agency?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
the statute does not include software among its examples, the
definition is quite clear. Though I don't have any citations at hand, I
believe that courts have in fact applied the definition to software in a
quite reasonable manner.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain
of derivative work, but
I see no way she can broaden it.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email
and lawyers).
The whole concept of execution and active reference has nothing to do with
copyright.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind
Steve Greenland writes:
Really? If I write a GUI that uses dpkg *only* via
'system(dpkg --command arg);'
that would be a derived work?
I would say no. RMS disagrees.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
of the license are irrelevant
to the identities of the authors.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
a different situation: one
where you own the preexisting material.
I don't see any way that the law is about to let you take material to which
you own no rights, attach a license to it, and enforce that license.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
own no rights,
attach a license to it, and enforce that license.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
is not really up to US law, but to the
law of the country that copyright is being claimed in.
Right. If Title 17 actually said that the US Government has no copyright
on its works we could cite that in a foreign court as evidence of
abandonment, but it carefully avoids saying that.
--
John Hasler
[unclassified] U.S. government works overseas, under any
license?
Huh? How did you get to that from what I wrote?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
can copy Hume's words out of my copy of _Dialogues Concerning Natural
Religion_ and start selling copies and there is nothing Thomas Nelson and
Sons, Ltd. can do about it. Hume's words remain in the public domain no
matter what the title page says.
--
John HaslerThis posting
Henning Makholm writes:
They probably won't. That doesn't mean that a third-party copyright
statement will have any validity in court, whatsoever.
Except perhaps as evidence of fraud.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
to imply a warranty.
How can you infer a warranty in the absence of a contract?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
, there is not permission to distribute, though you should
thwack some people because they clearly MEANT to provide that permission
but we aren't allowed to assume it.
In the past I believe that we have accepted works of the US Government as
free.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain
Alan Bain writes:
I'd appreciate a source of information on what makes work of US goverment
employees `public domain'
The US copyright statutes are available at the Library of Congress Web
site.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Do
.
This appears to say that you must either link with XForms or remove the
paragraph granting the right to do so. Try this:
You may link this software with XForms. You are not required to include
this paragraph in the license for derivatives of this software.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED
Dirk writes:
Would someone on debian-legal care to comment ?
It is acceptable, though deprecated.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
are not major components of Debian. Neither is Qt.
Please give me arguments before making a ruling.
I don't make rulings.
I don't see why the fact that some stuff may depend on Qt would make it a
major component.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
to make sure they aren't going to denounce us as a pack of
thieves, and that some lawyer reading licenses for Cheap Bytes won't run
across such a license and recoil in horror.
I think that including the emails should be enough.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL
Ben Pfaff writes:
This clause in particular I find confusing. I'm not at all sure what it
means:
It means that Sun can put the Program in Solaris and distribute it under
the Solaris license, but that in doing so they agree to take responsibility
for any lawsuits that result.
--
John Hasler
Joseph Carter writes:
Only the lawyers at IBM could take a two paragraph BSDish license and
make 9 pages out of it.
Much closer to GPL than BSD, IMHO. You can distribute binaries under your
license, but you must make source available under the IBM license.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED
the patent stuff.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
permission.
Where does it say that source must be made available?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Chris Lawrence writes:
Is the LGPL (AbiWord uses glib internally) Qt-compatible?
The LGPL is everything compatible. That is its purpose.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
if someone does get an extra $5k by including your
data? It isn't if you would be losing a sale.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
anything, yes.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
your agreement with Debian
contain them?
Therefore, such binaries as I produce may be legitimately distributed in
non-free, as they have been for some time.
Without more information it is not at all clear that this is true.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain
the right of redistribution
to those who receive copies from you. Right now it appears to me that you
can give me a copy but but I cannot give a copy of my copy to anyone else.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you
can come to that is to place your changes under the
terms of the original license.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
and since the file is an
executable it is potentially much more inconvenient.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin
the contents of the two original LEGAL files into one LEGAL
file. YAL doesn't say that LEGAL can't contain anything in addition to its
notices.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make
it is free, and almost GPL compatible.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
works of his editor from being
used to write fiction.
Is Dr. Hyatt perhaps just a little worried that someone will improve his
program and beat him with it?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
.
But it does not say The license may require derived works to carry a
specific name.
Assume that I take crafty and improve it beyond recognition, replacing
almost all of Prof. Hyatt's code with my own work. You would require me to
identify the result as a crafty clone?
--
John Hasler
with it
contain a special blurb? I don't think so.
...and he can definitely require to appear in all supporting
documentation (again the gpl does this).
Whether or not this would help depends on exactly how these tournaments are
run.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
. Copyright makes no judgements as to what is or isn't
consequential. Otherwise everything Hollywood has produced in the last 50
years would be in the public domain.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing
.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
performing source
distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding
source code, on a medium customarily used for software interchange.
Of course, LGPL would be better yet.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do
.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send email advertisements to this address.
under an unmodified GPL.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
and your software could go into Debian, should anyone choose to
package it.
I would like to see a a legal opinion on that clause. It is possible that
it has no effect at all. If so, the license is already DFSG compliant.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL
Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
or all of what their predecessors
did was wrong. This sort of thing happens not infrequently in the computer
industry. Consider, to pick an example entirely at random, Apple.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Ben writes:
Are you willing to trust lawyers? I'm not.
I am. Most of the lawyers I have had dealings with have been honest,
ethical men who did their best to advance their client's interests. This
license was written by lawyers who have Apple for a client.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED
negotiations before?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
contains this bit of sillines:
Any distribution of this software, a modified version thereof, or a
derivative work must comply with all applicable United States export
control laws.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Raul Miller writes:
Personally, I have no problems with them distributing software under this
license (that's outside my scope): I just would hate to see us
misclassify this as a free license.
The problem is that others will misclassify this as a free license even if
we don't.
--
John Hasler
.
And if the third party is a script-kiddie with a bogus claim who says he
wants $100,000 for a license?
Besides, even if I do pay him that $100,000 and get a license to use his
patent, my license to use the Apple code that implements it is still
suspended.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler
identifying
the author and referencing the license file.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
and liability for any claims may that arise from Your use,
reproduction, modification, or distribution of the Original Code.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make
Henning writes:
I thought that the Artistic was let in by the fact that if I sell a copy
of perl I get to decide myself if the price I take is fair enough to be
allowed by the licence?
I believe that this was not understood when the DFSG was written.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John
Henning Makholm writes:
Are anyone resending these comments to the OSI mailing list mentioned?
I'm not, but feel free to forward mine.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
corporations not by the clever license but by the fact
that the corporations aren't interested.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
not agree. Richard
Braakman, it appears, is one of those. His opinion counts. Mine doesn't.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
'' definitive decision ...
You'll have to ask someone with the authority to make decisions.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
must say so.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
itself.
Except that this:
Although one of the authors contested that point once the common work had
begun,...
is, IMHO, enough to keep it out of main.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Henning Makholm writes:
Hm, double-cheching with the DFSG, it seems that this restriction *is*
actually considered free. Is this intentional?
It's there to let the Artistic in.
This seems silly.
Yes. Such restrictions are pointless.
--
John HaslerThis posting
would make it
prohibitively expensive.
And yet someone who wanted to sell the software could stick it on a CD with
some tangentially related stuff and thereby evade the restriction. These
sorts of clauses serve no useful purpose.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Andrea Fanfani writes:
hi I have decided to put the linux kernel and the user guide in main and
the linux programmer guide in non-free ...
it is right or not ?
I think so, if I remember correctly which had which license.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain
KELEMEN Peter writes:
Originally, the LSM stated GPL.
What license was actually in the tarball?
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind
is a fine example of the 'dark and stormy
night' genre... I cannot, however, insert the description into my own
novel to save myself the trouble of writing it.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
? That is
probably what they mean, but it isn't what they have said.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send
licensed package alone
on a CD, price it at $100, advertise it as Perl for sale and the worst
you will suffer is cries of Shame! Shame!. The author has promised not
to sue and no one else can.
The Artistic is not the most well drafted license out there.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler
usually asked for
explicit permission for modifications.
The license in question forbids sale of copies for more than at-cost,
whatever that might be, and makes no exception for aggregates. It is
therefor non-free.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
the LDP license contradicts itself somewhat in that it forbids
derivatives while permitting partial copies.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
of the document verbatim, with
nothing added. still probably not what the authors wanted, but a bit more
sensical.
I think that what they want is to forbid derivatives in which the
boundaries of their work are not clearly demarcated. They should have said
so.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John
or with the express written consent
of Sun Microsystems, Inc. (Sun).
Non-free.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
to the computing community at large as a market that must bear the fee.)
This turns the clause you quoted into a non-binding request.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make
Javier Fdz-Sanguino Pen~a quotes:
No charge, other than an at-cost distribution fee, may be charged for
copies, derivations, or distributions of this material without the
express written consent of the copyright holders.
Non-free.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public
in their licenses. It
is confusing and unnecessary. If they find it necessary to say that they
don't want you to pay them, they should come right out and say so.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Darren O. Benham writes:
How about a position paper then? Something like, if you want to achive
this, try that phrase type help guide...
I am very reluctant to attempt something like that without the assistance
of an attorney.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain
Navindra Umanee writes:
Do applications like Netscape Navigator or Star Office actually comply
with the LGPL requirements?
What LGPL requirements do you think they might be violating?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
improvements in such
licenses.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
would be at the same time modified code, and patches to the
released version.
I would be glad if you could clarify whether this gets a nod up or down
from you.
The above scheme is OK with me.
[...]
This seems to me to be Debian-specific.
--
John HaslerThis posting
I am now wondering (Well, I am not sure), if I now have to put the
package into non-us or if I can put I into the normal archive.
Depends on what the code does. Everything labeled Secure is not
cryptography.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Chris Lawrence writes:
CNRI has released the 0.6 version of Grail with a new license...
...
If it is DFSG-free,...
Looks ok to me. Is grail actually usable?
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you
provide him any protection.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
doesn't matter, as long as the permission to link is
there.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin Do not send
I assume this is DFSG-free.
It is. I wish people would stop using that redundant without fee
phrasing, but that's nit-picking.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
the little guys might not bug them very
much.
So they don't really care about free software developers at all.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
.
Maybe it was a little harsh, but the assumption that only large
organizations matter burns me. What large institutions other than UC and
the US DoD have made significant contributions to free software? Most have
made none at all.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
a portion
of someone else's program into yours could ever be fair use.
--
John HaslerThis posting is in the public domain.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Do with it what you will.
Dancing Horse Hill Make money from it if you can; I don't mind.
Elmwood, Wisconsin
on this out of an
attorney? I know nothing about the copyright law on fonts except that it
is weird.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Peter Galbraith writes:
Any comments from the legal crowd? Any standard add-on XForms packages
can add to the GPL?
You are permitted to link this program or any program derived from it to
XForms should suffice, I would think.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Brian Ristuccia writes:
http://www.sodan.dk/gamecode/mwpl.html
I don't see anything immediately non-free in this license.
Looks ok to me too.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Designated Nationals or the U.S. Department of Commerce's Table of
Denial Orders.
And I also cannot give copies to people whose names are on a list
maintained by some jerk in Washington. A blacklist.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
. I don't think that the threat of reduced hacker code
input is an argument for him since it hasn't been a driving factor so
far.
Then the risk of having to rewrite a negligible number of patches should
not be a threat either.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
and click the
button? No one can redistribute the code?
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
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