Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-26 Thread Sam Hartman
Thomas == Thomas Bushnell, BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thomas Walter Landry [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You seem to be worrying about distributing GPL'd applications under section 3 of the GPL. But that is only for object code or executable form. Debian is distributing it

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-17 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) What matters is if it's part of a total pattern: if so, then anyone who intended it to be part of such a total pattern is infringing, even if their piece, in isolation, would not be. What must

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-17 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not sure whether or not you disagree with me. Was it that hard to tell that my original different people scenario was meant as a situation where each of the things that each of the parties do is something they do because it makes sense in itself

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-17 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What must I say to communicate the message that the case you describe here is the *non-interesting* one? Well, it's the one that matters. You want

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-17 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 01:57:17AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What must I say to communicate the message that the case you describe here is the *non-interesting* one? Well, it's

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-17 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 01:57:17AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: So that there is no way to evade the GPL by doing things that happen to be individually OK, and in sum, just happen to get around the license. They only way to do this is if it is

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-17 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 11:07:27PM +0100, Henning Makholm wrote: MEANWHILE: The Danish communications engineer Dennis Damm realizes that efficient polynomial factorization can be used for an elegant analysis of network choke points. He quickly writes a prototype iplementation in AngstRom

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-16 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 11:49:45AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: My concern is not with bindings (most PHP *bindings* seem to be GPL-compatible), but with the interpreter itself; I don't see anything in the GPL that states unequivocally

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-16 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Richard Braakman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If we go by your interpretation, then any self-contained GPL executable (for example, a flash image for an embedded linux system) can be distributed without source code. A GPL-d program in which the original is not source code is incoherent. Section

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-16 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What establishes cahoots? Well, basically, anyone who did any of the steps (*any* of them, whether that step would be illegal in isolation or not) with the intention that it's part of the total process. This is similar to conspiracy law, where

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-16 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What establishes cahoots? Well, basically, anyone who did any of the steps (*any* of them, whether that step would be illegal in isolation or not) with the intention that it's part of the total

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-16 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not sure whether or not you disagree with me. Was it that hard to tell that my original different people scenario was meant as a situation where each of the things that each of the parties do is something they do because it makes sense in itself

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-16 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) What matters is if it's part of a total pattern: if so, then anyone who intended it to be part of such a total pattern is infringing, even if their piece, in isolation, would not be. What must I say to communicate the message that the case you

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-15 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] [I wrote the double-quoted text even though 'starner' tries to hide that] For example, the one who ports the program to the proprietary language may do it out of honest desire to make some good free software available in what he sees as an exciting new environment.

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-14 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 20:57, Richard Braakman wrote: And section 3 specifically says distribute under the terms of Sections 1 and 2, so it can't be more permissive than those sections. In fact, it imposes an extra requirement. That's not quite correct. Section 1 covers distributing the

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-14 Thread Richard Braakman
On Sat, Dec 14, 2002 at 02:37:26AM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote: Section 2 says you have the option of changing that source code, and then distributing that changed code as in section one (i.e., in source form), so long as you note your changes, license under the GPL, and some stuff about

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-14 Thread Walter Landry
Richard Braakman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's clear that our basic disagreement is here. I see nothing in section 2 that would limit it only to source code. Correct. Compiling is a form of modification. But are you able to distribute everything in the object file (including the libraries)

GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Steve Langasek
Hello, What is the list's opinion of this entry in the FSF's GPL FAQ? http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#InterpreterIncompat Does the argument that a script is just data really hold water legally? I would think they are just data in the same sense that all binary executables are just

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does the argument that a script is just data really hold water legally? I would think they are just data in the same sense that all binary executables are just data to a kernel; yet the vendors of proprietary Unices have always gone out of their way to

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Steve Langasek
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:05:09AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does the argument that a script is just data really hold water legally? I would think they are just data in the same sense that all binary executables are just data to a kernel;

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Walter Landry
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:05:09AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does the argument that a script is just data really hold water legally? I would think they are just data in the same sense that all

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 10:05:09AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Does the argument that a script is just data really hold water legally? I would think they are just data in the same sense that all

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Steve Langasek
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 11:35:57AM -0800, Walter Landry wrote: My concern is not with bindings (most PHP *bindings* seem to be GPL-compatible), but with the interpreter itself; I don't see anything in the GPL that states unequivocally that distributing a GPL script together with a

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Walter Landry [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You seem to be worrying about distributing GPL'd applications under section 3 of the GPL. But that is only for object code or executable form. Debian is distributing it under section 2. Furthermore, the thing that Debian distributes doesn't have any

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My concern is not with bindings (most PHP *bindings* seem to be GPL-compatible), but with the interpreter itself; I don't see anything in the GPL that states unequivocally that distributing a GPL

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now, if it's the same I who do all four steps, some argument could probably be made that I am in fact infringing on the original software's copyrigt, under the it's the intended end result that matters doctrine. However, if the steps are done by

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Steve Langasek
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 11:49:45AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote: My concern is not with bindings (most PHP *bindings* seem to be GPL-compatible), but with the interpreter itself; I don't see anything in the GPL that states unequivocally that distributing a GPL script together with a

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Walter Landry
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 11:35:57AM -0800, Walter Landry wrote: My concern is not with bindings (most PHP *bindings* seem to be GPL-compatible), but with the interpreter itself; I don't see anything in the GPL that states unequivocally that

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas Bushnell, BSG) Henning Makholm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However, if the steps are done by different parties, it will be difficult to point to an individual party who is actually in violation. What establishes cahoots? Well, basically, anyone who did

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread starner
For example, the one who ports the program to the proprietary language may do it out of honest desire to make some good free software available in what he sees as an exciting new environment. How does this differ from, say, Emacs on Windows? I'm sure that Emacs has been extended to do some

Re: GPL scripts with a GPL-incompatible interpreter

2002-12-13 Thread Richard Braakman
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 02:00:27PM -0800, Walter Landry wrote: Section 3 gives you rights in addition to section 2. Section 3 lets you distribute a particular kind of modification that is not allowed in Section 2 (a modification that incorporates things that can not be licensed under the