Re: Open data french license
On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 23:15:11 + (GMT) Jonathan Keller wrote: Hi everyone, Hi. I think that you are misinterpretating this issue. Maybe, but I am not convinced by your arguments... But this license is made in order to publish the public data as requisted by the french/european law/regulation (if you are interrested by this issue, I can send you later the references). The aim is the publication First the producer is a public entity not a private one. I think that a re-user becomes producer of Derivative information, whenever he/she modifies the information in order to create such Derivative information (as permitted by the third point of the _You are free to re-use the Information_ section). Especially, if this re-user is willing to license the Derivative information under the terms of the Open Licence itself... [...] In fact, this license/licence is granted in order to let people re-use the public data, not to modify it. I think that this is contradicted by the very license text, which states (in the third point of the _You are free to re-use the Information_ section): [...] | You are free to re-use the « Information » : [...] | • To adapt, modify, transform and extract from the « Information », | for instance to build upon it in order to create « Derivative | information » ; [...] To make it clear and simple, this data is supposed to be aggregated, associated, used in many ways but not modified. In this context, the public data is free. As I said above, I don't think your interpretation is grounded in the license text. But, anyway, if your interpretation is confirmed to be valid, then the license is even farther away from meeting the DFSG... French public data law has for principle to crystalize the public data and avoid this very data to be modified. The public data is supposed to reflect a certain truth at a certain time. If the data is modified therefore the certain truth at a certain time is altered. If you want it s a creative commons license BY ND. But the public data is free and can be used as it is. The license itself claims to be compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution v2.0 license, which actually allows licensees to modify the licensed work (even though with certain non-free restrictions...). So, once again, I cannot understand where your interpretation comes from... I hope that it s more clear for you. Not really, unfortunately. -- http://www.inventati.org/frx/frx-gpg-key-transition-2010.txt New GnuPG key, see the transition document! . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE pgpr8Haoi4rvK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Open data french license
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 11:41:46 +0100 (CET) x.guim...@free.fr wrote: The complete text can be found here : * Original text : http://www.data.gouv.fr/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence * English translation : http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/4/37/99/26/licence/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence-ENG.pdf You are free to re-use the « Information » : • To reproduce, copy, publish and transmit the « Information » ; • To disseminate and redistribute the « Information » ; • To adapt, modify, transform and extract from the « Information », for instance to build upon it in order to create « Derivative information » ; • To exploit the « Information » commercially, for example, by combining it with other « Information », or by including it in your own product or application. Bonjour Xavier and everybody, I do not see the permission to disseminate modified informations. If this restriction is confirmed, then the license is not free from Debian's point of view. Bon week-end, -- Charles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121221104042.gd30...@falafel.plessy.net
Re: Open data french license
On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 19:40:42 +0900 Charles Plessy wrote: [...] You are free to re-use the « Information » : • To reproduce, copy, publish and transmit the « Information » ; • To disseminate and redistribute the « Information » ; • To adapt, modify, transform and extract from the « Information », for instance to build upon it in order to create « Derivative information » ; • To exploit the « Information » commercially, for example, by combining it with other « Information », or by including it in your own product or application. Bonjour Xavier and everybody, I do not see the permission to disseminate modified informations. If this restriction is confirmed, then the license is not free from Debian's point of view. This seems to be an issue, thanks to Charles for spotting it! I also see a second issue, in case the first is found to be non-existent. Let's assume for an instant that the Open Licence grants permission to distribute derivative information. In order to meet DFSG#3, the license must allow derived works to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original software. Hence I must be allowed to take some information available under the terms of the Open Licence, adapt/modify/transform it, and distribute the resulting derivative information under the Open Licence. On the other hand, the license text states: [...] Intellectual property rights The « Producer » guarantees that the « Information » is not subject to any « Intellectual property rights » belonging to third parties. [...] In the hypothetical case described above, I would be the producer of the derivative information. How can I guarantee that such information is not subject to any intellectual property rights belonging to third parties? I think I cannot, since such information would be derived from the original information, which may indeed be subject to intellectual property rights belonging to the original producer! Hence, it seems to me that the Open Licence would fail to meet DFSG#3, even if it were found to allow the distribution of derivative information, because it would not allow derivative information to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original information. Bye. -- http://www.inventati.org/frx/frx-gpg-key-transition-2010.txt New GnuPG key, see the transition document! . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE pgpH1GWXpKHXE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Open data french license
Hi everyone, I think that you are misinterpretating this issue. But this license is made in order to publish the public data as requisted by the french/european law/regulation (if you are interrested by this issue, I can send you later the references). The aim is the publication First the producer is a public entity not a private one. Therefore, about the intellectual property, it s refered as the work of a public agent or a work commissioned by the public entity (french law principle you shall not grant rights beyond yours). It s like a warranty stipulation in a software license. In fact, this license/licence is granted in order to let people re-use the public data, not to modify it. To make it clear and simple, this data is supposed to be aggregated, associated, used in many ways but not modified. In this context, the public data is free. French public data law has for principle to crystalize the public data and avoid this very data to be modified. The public data is supposed to reflect a certain truth at a certain time. If the data is modified therefore the certain truth at a certain time is altered. If you want it s a creative commons license BY ND. But the public data is free and can be used as it is. I hope that it s more clear for you. Jonathan De : Francesco Poli invernom...@paranoici.org À : debian-legal@lists.debian.org Cc : x.guim...@free.fr Envoyé le : Vendredi 21 décembre 2012 23h54 Objet : Re: Open data french license On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 19:40:42 +0900 Charles Plessy wrote: [...] You are free to re-use the « Information » : • To reproduce, copy, publish and transmit the « Information » ; • To disseminate and redistribute the « Information » ; • To adapt, modify, transform and extract from the « Information », for instance to build upon it in order to create « Derivative information » ; • To exploit the « Information » commercially, for example, by combining it with other « Information », or by including it in your own product or application. Bonjour Xavier and everybody, I do not see the permission to disseminate modified informations. If this restriction is confirmed, then the license is not free from Debian's point of view. This seems to be an issue, thanks to Charles for spotting it! I also see a second issue, in case the first is found to be non-existent. Let's assume for an instant that the Open Licence grants permission to distribute derivative information. In order to meet DFSG#3, the license must allow derived works to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original software. Hence I must be allowed to take some information available under the terms of the Open Licence, adapt/modify/transform it, and distribute the resulting derivative information under the Open Licence. On the other hand, the license text states: [...] Intellectual property rights The « Producer » guarantees that the « Information » is not subject to any « Intellectual property rights » belonging to third parties. [...] In the hypothetical case described above, I would be the producer of the derivative information. How can I guarantee that such information is not subject to any intellectual property rights belonging to third parties? I think I cannot, since such information would be derived from the original information, which may indeed be subject to intellectual property rights belonging to the original producer! Hence, it seems to me that the Open Licence would fail to meet DFSG#3, even if it were found to allow the distribution of derivative information, because it would not allow derivative information to be distributed under the same terms as the license of the original information. Bye. -- http://www.inventati.org/frx/frx-gpg-key-transition-2010.txt New GnuPG key, see the transition document! . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82 3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE
Open data french license
Hi all, French open datas are published under LO-OL (Licence ouverte - open license) which is compatible with : * UK Open Government License * Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 (which seems to have problems with DFSG) * Open Data Commons Attribution of Open Knowledge The complete text can be found here : * Original text : http://www.data.gouv.fr/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence * English translation : http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/4/37/99/26/licence/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence-ENG.pdf Cheers, Xavier -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1365660799.105707439.135560306.javamail.r...@zimbra60-e10.priv.proxad.net
Re: Open data french license
- Mail original - De: x guimard x.guim...@free.fr À: debian-legal@lists.debian.org Envoyé: Jeudi 20 Décembre 2012 11:39:20 Objet: Open data french license Hi all, French open datas are published under LO-OL (Licence ouverte - open license) which is compatible with : * UK Open Government License * Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 (which seems to have problems with DFSG) * Open Data Commons Attribution of Open Knowledge The complete text can be found here : * Original text : http://www.data.gouv.fr/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence * English translation : http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/4/37/99/26/licence/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence-ENG.pdf Cheers, Xavier Sorry, the end is missing : is this license compatible with DFSG ? Thanks, Xavier -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-legal-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1773633922.105714987.1356000106471.javamail.r...@zimbra60-e10.priv.proxad.net
Re: Open data french license
On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 11:41:46 +0100 (CET) x.guim...@free.fr wrote: [...] De: x guimard x.guim...@free.fr [...] Hi all, Hi, French open datas are published under LO-OL (Licence ouverte - open license) which is compatible with : * UK Open Government License * Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 (which seems to have problems with DFSG) * Open Data Commons Attribution of Open Knowledge I am disappointed to see that the European license proliferation festival is going on stronger and stronger... :-( Too bad! The complete text can be found here : * Original text : http://www.data.gouv.fr/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence * English translation : http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/4/37/99/26/licence/Licence-Ouverte-Open-Licence-ENG.pdf Unfortunately I do not speak enough French to understand French legalese. Is the English translation an official and authoritative version or just a convenience non-authoritative text to help those who do not read French? Cheers, Xavier Sorry, the end is missing : is this license compatible with DFSG ? For future reference on the mailing list archive, what follows is the English translation, obtained from the PDF file with pdftotext and some semi-manual reformatting inside VIM. My comments will be sent to the list, as soon as I find the time to actually read this text... oo LICENCE OUVERTE OPEN LICENCE You may re-use the « Information » made available by the « Producer » under the freedoms and the conditions specified by this licence. Re-use of Information under this licence The « Producer » grants the « Re-user » a worldwide, perpetual, free of charge, non-exclusive, personal right to use the « Information » subject to this licence under the freedoms and the conditions set out below. You are free to re-use the « Information » : • To reproduce, copy, publish and transmit the « Information » ; • To disseminate and redistribute the « Information » ; • To adapt, modify, transform and extract from the « Information », for instance to build upon it in order to create « Derivative information » ; • To exploit the « Information » commercially, for example, by combining it with other « Information », or by including it in your own product or application. You must, where you do any of the above : • Attribute the « Information » by acknowledging its source (at least the name of the « Producer ») and the date on which it was last updated. The « Re-user » may fulfil this condition by providing one or more hypertext links (URL) referring to the « Information » and effectively acknowledging its source. This attribution shall not suggest any official status or endorsement, by the « Producer » or any other public entity, of the « Re-user » or the re-use of the « Information ». Liability The « Information » is made available as produced or received by the « Producer », without any other express or tacit guarantee not specified in this licence. The « Producer » guarantees that it makes the « Information » available free of charge, under the freedoms and the conditions defined by this licence. It cannot guarantee that the « Information » does not contain any error or irregularity. It does not guarantee the continued supply of the « Information ». It shall not be liable for any loss, injury or damage of any kind caused to third parties resulting from its re-use. The « Re-user » is solely responsible for its re-use of the « Information ». The re-use shall not mislead third parties or misrepresent the content of the « Information », its source and its time of last update. Intellectual property rights The « Producer » guarantees that the « Information » is not subject to any « Intellectual property rights » belonging to third parties. « Intellectual property rights » that might be held by the « Producer » over documents containing the « Information » do not impede the free re-use of the « Information ». Where the « Producer » holds « Intellectual property rights » over documents which contain the « Information », it assigns them, on a non-exclusive basis, free of charge, worldwide and for the entire term of the « Intellectual property rights », to the « Re-user », who may make use thereof in accordance with the freedoms and conditions defined in this licence. Compatibility of the licence To facilitate the re-use of the « Information », this licence has been designed to be compatible with any licence which requires at least the attribution of the « Information ». For instance, it is compatible with the « Open Government Licence » (OGL) of the United Kingdom, the « Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 » (CC-BY 2.0) licence of Creative Commons and the « Open Data Commons Attribution » (ODC-BY) licence of the Open Knowledge Foundation. Applicable law This licence is governed by French law. Definitions Intellectual property rights* « Intellectual property rights » means any rights identified as
