not at all sure what package this sort of bug belongs to, so I'm
reassigning it to network-manager-gnome, which should at least get it into
the general ballpark. The network-manager maintainers should have a
better idea of where specifically it should go.
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of udebs
without having that statement.
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) are
not fully covered in this manual and do not comply with all of the
requirements discussed here. See the
url name=Debian Installer internals manual
id=http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/doc/internals/ch03.html; for more
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Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes:
here is a new version trying to addres Simon's and Guillem's comments.
Seconded.
In response to the other follow-up, I don't think this is the right place
(or bug) to discuss udeb package behavior or what portions of Policy they
comply with.
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Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes:
Russ Allbery wrote:
In response to the other follow-up, I don't think this is the right
place (or bug) to discuss udeb package behavior or what portions of
Policy they comply with.
Surely it is relevant to people reading policy that it does
to mark it
recommended.
Sounds right to me.
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or optional ?
Seconded, once that question has been resolved.
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the specific use
cases discussed and provides guidance for how to implement each one.
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The advantage of putting format first is that in some obscure situations,
it could help with backward compatibility with changes that otherwise
wouldn't be backward-compatible (like allowing a field to be duplicated
that couldn't be duplicated before, that sort of thing).
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Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes:
I wonder if it would be useful to mandate in the next revision that the
files must start with the Format field.
Yes, definitely. Good idea.
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Ximin Luo infini...@gmx.com writes:
On 25/12/12 18:28, Russ Allbery wrote:
You should consider the possibility that no one is trying to delay
anything, but rather that we simply aren't convinced by the changes
that you're proposing.
Well, more criticism would be appreciated rather than
Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes:
Russ Allbery wrote:
It might be worthwhile to recognize some sort of syntax similar to
license exceptions so that one can tag the license as BSD-3-Clause by
copyright holder or the like. That would let one use standalone
license paragraphs
Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes:
Russ Allbery wrote:
Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes:
Russ Allbery wrote:
It might be worthwhile to recognize some sort of syntax similar to
license exceptions so that one can tag the license as BSD-3-Clause by
copyright holder or the like
.
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paragraphs,
which I think is the key point of having this feature, runs the risk of
not correctly reproducing the *actual* license text in the copyright file.
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gains some of the benefit of your proposal in terms of making the file
clearer and allowing use of the standard license short names, without
losing the verbatim text of the license.
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of the specification that the
package's copyright file references, e.g. 1.0 for the present), then the
packager is free to pick any short name desired. IMHO if there is
indeed an SPDX identifier, it might be preferable to use that, but it is
not mandatory in any way.
Right, this was the intent.
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is what to
put in the Copyright field. (The rest is covered by the existing Public
Domain section.)
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have been infrequent enough
that it didn't seem worthwhile to try to figure out how to make that
change.
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to not
do this in the short run, but moving towards (1).
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?
That makes sense to me on first glance. I can't think of a case where I'd
want to use Provides/Conflicts/Replaces with non-virtual packages rather
than using a transitional package.
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The dbnpolicy group, which is used to control access to the Git repository
used to maintain debian-policy, was missing both aba and plessy. I've
just submitted an RT ticket to DSA requesting that it be updated.
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Raúl Benencia r...@kalgan.cc writes:
Package: debian-policy
Version: 3.9.4.0
Severity: minor
At the beginning, when the policy says The shlibs system is an simpler
alternative. s/an/a
Thanks, fixed for the next release.
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that we'd use.
Thank you for doing this work!
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than adding a new
statement, possibly by strengthening the degree to which Policy says to
not prompt unnecessarily.
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Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes:
To me, this feels like a specific instance of the general problem of
excessive maintainer script prompting.
Oh, I see why you didn't class it that way: this isn't something done by
the maintainer scripts, but rather something done by the package itself
think it's a good idea
and I think that limitation is solely due to a bug in the original GR, so
I don't see much point in arguing about it.)
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recreate the
alternative) or we're about to call abort-upgrade in postinst.
As near as I can tell, postinst should just unconditionally call
update-alternatives; it's at worse a no-op.
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alternative configuration and restoring it
once the deconfigured package has been reconfigured. (I suspect this is
oversimplified.)
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/*.symbols,
but packages should not rely on this and instead should use dpkg-query
--control-path package shlibs if for some reason these files need to
be examined.
Should that be /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.shlibs?
Indeed, thanks. I will fix that for the next release.
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Package: debian-policy
Severity: normal
Based on discussion in debian-devel, the current Built-Using description
would imply that it had to be present for, say, the code from libgcc
incorporated into every binary build. The description should be modified
to be clear that it is only mandatory if
already exists for the given subject
I think you meant PolicyKit rather than debian-policy. I'm a bit dubious
the problem is there, but reassigning there to start with.
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systems and specific requirements for integrating with upstart.
12.5
All copyright files must be encoded in UTF-8.
Note that the change to make build-arch and build-indep mandatory is not
RC for wheezy.
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Package: debian-policy
Severity: normal
There are various bugs already filed about some edge cases and
specific issues with multiarch, but none to track the general
documentation of multiarch handling in Policy. This bug will be
used to discuss the overall wording. It's possible some of the
of multiarch packages, and
everything else from the multiarch wiki documentation that needs to be
folded into Policy. I'd rather not do this piecemeal, since we need to
review the whole multiarch specification across Policy to be sure that
everything is consistent.
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to tackle for the general DocBook rewrite, at which point
we'll also regroup all the init system stuff.
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;bug=661816
With Guillem's review, this now has enough seconds. I've applied it for
the next release with the wording tweaks Guillem suggested. Thanks!
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Bill Allombert bill.allomb...@math.u-bordeaux1.fr writes:
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 08:31:50AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes:
The following patch implements the decision of the Debian Technical
Committee in #629385 to make build-arch and build-indep mandatory
the footnote saying that it doesn't work properly), but I'd
rather not. I think it's already working.
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Zachary Harris zacharyhar...@hotmail.com writes:
Under #652011, presumably with reference to my proposed addition to
policy here, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote:
Policy already says what you want it to say currently,
Where? If policy is already clear on this, then this bug should
.
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.
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Clarify 9.9 - Environment variables
#648271 11.8.3 says xterm passes -e option straight to exec
#671355 [debconf] document escape capability
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jobs in packages, which I
think meets your criteria.
Sure, sounds good to me. I was dithering about putting that on my list
already.
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can deal with any further refinements as additional work. I don't think
there's anything about this that would force unreasonable behavior.
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practices keep not engaging for Policy. I need to
pay more attention to that.
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Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.org writes:
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 14:25:12 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Okay, once more for the win. Here is the current version of the patch,
incorporating substantial improvements from Jonathan Nieder and
hopefully incorporating all the feedback in subsequent
if #562920 is better to stay closed ?
I think we should close all of them. I don't think anything has changed.
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should not under emphasis, not only the not
Here is how the section 9.7 would read with this patch applied.
Looks good to me. Seconded.
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special cases where we've ignored this problem for
reasons of expediency, but I don't think that's a good reason to water
down the requirement globally.
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that using a configuration mechanism that allows
packages to add fragments in a *.d directory is generally superior to any
of these approaches. It might be a good idea to say that.
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in such a role, by mailing me and/or this list. (For the
avoidance of doubt, I'm Bcc:-ing all current delegates.)
I'm interested in continuing as a Policy editor.
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for the next release. Thanks!
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Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes:
Thanks again for your help. I've applied all suggested changes.
Interdiff and updated patch attached.
Thanks, this has been applied for the next release.
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Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org writes:
Le Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 09:57:42PM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes:
It's a small thing, but this makes the commas italic, which looks
especially strange in the text rendering. Do we care that the section
names
release and get
the change in front of everyone as they restart development.
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for
wording review and for confirmation that I've implemented the Technical
Committee decision properly.
commit af73c2257019136ee0ce9180aebe6eb8be0dd76e
Author: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
Date: Sun Aug 12 13:14:55 2012 -0700
Make build-arch and build-indep required targets
Jonathan Nieder jrnie...@gmail.com writes:
Russ Allbery wrote:
I'm therefore including here the complete SGML source of that section
not in diff format, followed by the diff of everything *outside* of
that section. I think this will be easier to review.
Thanks! I would have preferred
version of
the patch to review what I further changed.
I'm going to reply to this thread in a moment with the whole current
patch, for hopefully the last time, and then we can try to get seconds and
(at least) merge this monster.
commit 97cb027db4afab774ea4f4ff9e7bef7a6dcbbda0
Author: Russ Allbery r
Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes:
commit 97cb027db4afab774ea4f4ff9e7bef7a6dcbbda0
Author: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
Date: Sun Aug 12 14:14:23 2012 -0700
Further wording changes on top of Jonathan Neider's work
I fixed the spelling of your name in Git before I pushed. Sorry
~) or (= 1:1.2.3.3.dfsg) to be
kind to backporters? Before the patch, the example said = 1:1.1.3.
Let's go with 1:1.2.3.3.dfsg in the example to show the common case
instead of the unusual case. I've applied this:
commit 29e3fc2e05b59a7e13913a263a1e22d40cbc9918
Author: Russ Allbery r...@debian.org
modifier program is available or accept gracefully
that they cannot modify the configuration file if it
is not. (This is in addition to the fact that the
We should be consistent about terminology. Other than that nit, seconded.
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documentation patch is
finally merged).
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the behavior that
Policy is trying to mandate isn't sane?
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it, it's nice to have tools to help us support what we're
currently supporting. And it also makes it clear how large of a problem
we have with following this separation, which can inform the decision of
whether to continue to support it.
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temporarily stop reporting this as an
error until the long-standing dpkg bug is fixed, to avoid encouraging
maintainers to do more aggressive and incorrect things.
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Andreas Beckmann deb...@abeckmann.de writes:
On 2012-08-07 18:35, Russ Allbery wrote:
It would be nice if piuparts would temporarily stop reporting this as
an error until the long-standing dpkg bug is fixed,
piuparts already whitelists a list of common false positives due to that
dpkg bug
, or replace the
should in 4.4 by must for consistency.
Must for the existing language is definitely wrong, since it would be
saying that it's an RC bug to miss describing a change to the package. I
don't think we want to go there.
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the
coordination with the package maintainer part.
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-accessible, but I can fix
that when committing.)
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publicly cannot modify repository.
Oh, good call. You're right; Jonathan's original is better. I didn't
think through the adverb vs. adjective distinction. There's no ambiguity
without the hyphen since publicly is an adverb.
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as they wish, IMO.
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or risk having
different versions installed because we could get the wrong changelog and
copyright files. This would solve that problem nicely.
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if we'll get to it, but it sounds like
something we should look at.
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similar place, however. (And arch-qualified when needed, of course.)
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good to me.
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maintainers can wonder why a bug is stalled and there is no one to offer
guidance.
To put it another way: I don't think a lack of patches is the only
problem. Sorry for the ramble.
Yes, I agree that it's not the only problem.
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Package: tech-ctte
Severity: normal
As a Debian Policy delegate, I'm delegating to the Technical Committee
the resolution of bugs #587279 and #616462.
The current Policy wording is:
In addition, the packages in main
* must not require or recommend a package outside of main
for
not, this may still be what we want to say, but if it's not
currently true, the list of packages that are currently required but not
part of the essential set should be illuminating. Either they will all be
packages that we want to downgrade, or this definition may not be correct.
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Marc Haber mh+debian-packa...@zugschlus.de writes:
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 02:29:53PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
Ah, okay. For that use case, the only thing that you would care about the
user home directory containing is the authorized_keys file, correct?
known_hosts and the key itself.
Oh
Marc Haber mh+debian-packa...@zugschlus.de writes:
On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 10:52:26AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
I think it's perfectly acceptable to have an admin drop data into a
/var/lib directory for non-default configurations of packages.
Is this documented in policy?
Greetings
Marc
Raphael Hertzog hert...@debian.org writes:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2012, Russ Allbery wrote:
The 15th Edition was published in 2003. Since then, my personal
impression is that opposition to generic he has hardened considerably
and opposition to singular they has weakened somewhat. Using he
grammar curricula and I'm not positive about
that. But the history of the stance of the Chicago Manual of Style seems
to support that.
In the above, I can only speak for US English. I don't know what the
state of singular they in UK English is.
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Package: debian-policy
Severity: normal
Policy 12.5 says:
In addition, the copyright file must say where the upstream sources
(if any) were obtained, and should name the original authors.
The last part is not at all clear. Prior to a recent conversation on
debian-mentors, I had always
, but I'm probably too
close to it. We can certainly add a pointer to 10.1 here.
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of any good
documentation of that somewhere else, but it's probably not a high
priority.)
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license family in common-licenses (the GFDL)
is used by 939 packages.
It's possible that this has changed dramatically since last September, but
it seems somewhat unlikely.
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about
it from lots of other people, and I know some other maintainers are just
ignoring it.
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initially, however; see 6.3(5).)
The Debian Policy process is not a constitutional process, but rather is
just a delegate of the Project Leader, so I don't see anything that would
override that explicit constitutional grant of power.
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no design work at stake here, just a question of whether we're
going to rename upstream binaries with language extensions or not.
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appear to be still open in some
interesting branch of the versions, either approach will work.
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Daniel Kahn Gillmor d...@fifthhorseman.net writes:
On 04/02/2012 03:54 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
You definitely want class 0 and class 2 certs hashed into the same
directory under nearly all circumstances that don't involve being very
paranoid about the CAs that you accept, since that allows
package names, but
for the record I second this, and am happy to see others who have reviewed
it second it. (Failing seconds, I'll probably make this change anyway for
the next release if there are no actual objections.)
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heading
prgndpkg-distaddfile/prgn - adds a file to
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Russ Allbery r...@debian.org writes:
More relevantly at the moment, there is, as yet, no wording to formally
second. (I too agree with the proposal.) Here's a proposed patch:
diff --git a/policy.sgml b/policy.sgml
index 1a61d4f..4fd60d9 100644
--- a/policy.sgml
+++ b/policy.sgml
discussing it.
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writing a new section on
how to properly generate and package detached debugging symbols for
executables and shared libraries and propose that wording as a new Policy
bug.
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) in that we don't
actively suppress parallelization if upstream enables something by
default.
My conservative inclination would be towards (1).
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