On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 11:06:25 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Systemd makes
system startup more complicated and you need to know not only shell
scripts but also systemd syntax.
I'm interested. Do you have a document explaining that you need to use
shell scripts with systemd?
Le 08.11.2013 12:12, Marko Randjelovic a écrit :
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 11:06:25 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Systemd makes
system startup more complicated and you need to know not only
shell
scripts but also systemd syntax.
I'm interested. Do you have a document explaining
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:33:27 +
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 10:23:02AM +0100, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
I find shell scripts the most efficient way to automate system adin
tasks. It could be because I am a programmer, but at least init
scripts are
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 10:44:23 -0600
Conrad Nelson y...@marupa.net wrote:
Not everyone is a programmer, but a lot of non-programmers are still
admins but are not interested in working with shell scripts if they
don't have to.
We already have: skeleton, /etc/default. I agree it's poor, but
Le 08.11.2013 12:55, Marko Randjelovic a écrit :
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:33:27 +
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 10:23:02AM +0100, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
I find shell scripts the most efficient way to automate system
adin
tasks. It could be because I
Le 08.11.2013 13:48, Marko Randjelovic a écrit :
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 10:44:23 -0600
Conrad Nelson y...@marupa.net wrote:
Not everyone is a programmer, but a lot of non-programmers are still
admins but are not interested in working with shell scripts if they
don't have to.
We already have:
Le 05.11.2013 15:32, Jonathan Dowland a écrit :
On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 03:10:31PM +0100,
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
As simple Debian users, we indeed do not mind about portability
stuff. But for Debian's maintainers, using systemd as default means
that they'll have to maintain
On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 04:16:39PM +, Tom H wrote:
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Marko Randjelovic marko...@eunet.rs wrote:
Decisions like changing such an essential part of OS should not be made
in rush.
It's not being done in a rush. This has been discussed at length on
Le 04.11.2013 17:44, Conrad Nelson a écrit :
LXDE, on the other hand, would
be a better choice for a UNIX philosophy fan (better, not perfect,
since
UNIX philosophy imply that softwares discuss between them by text
only,
which can not really be easily done when you come to GUIs. I think
that
On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 03:10:31PM +0100, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
As simple Debian users, we indeed do not mind about portability
stuff. But for Debian's maintainers, using systemd as default means
that they'll have to maintain other systems for Debian Hurd and
Debian KFreeBSD.
Le 03.11.2013 10:23, Marko Randjelovic a écrit :
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:58:45 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
_ sysvinit scripts are scripts. Scripts needs programming skills,
and
the sh language does not have an easy to read syntax. I would in
fact
call it rather obscure
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:45 PM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:23:01 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't trust this guy. He's generally very abrasive and very
aggressive. He joined or
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 10:06 PM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:08:29 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
Misrepresenting what systemd is and the reasons for its existence
doesn't make sense:
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
OS X and Solaris
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Marko Randjelovic marko...@eunet.rs wrote:
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:58:45 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
_ sysvinit scripts are scripts. Scripts needs programming skills, and
the sh language does not have an easy to read syntax. I would in fact
call
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Marko Randjelovic marko...@eunet.rs wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:55:44 -0400
John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
Decisions
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 10:23:02AM +0100, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
I find shell scripts the most efficient way to automate system adin
tasks. It could be because I am a programmer, but at least init
scripts are already
On 11/03/2013 10:41 AM, Reco wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:21:40 +
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:06:06AM +0400, Reco wrote:
Linux is way ahead of AIX, FreeBSD and HP-UX in this regard even if
using good ol' sysvinit. So, Lennart fixed what wasn't broken
On 11/04/2013 04:06 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 03.11.2013 10:23, Marko Randjelovic a écrit :
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:58:45 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
_ sysvinit scripts are scripts. Scripts needs programming skills, and
the sh language does not have an easy
On 11/04/2013 10:22 AM, Tom H wrote:
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 10:23:02AM +0100, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
I find shell scripts the most efficient way to automate system adin
tasks. It could be because I am a programmer, but
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:43:36 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
smf uses manifests to manage the ksh scripts, which are far more
simple that the pre-smf rc scripts; often just a case,start/stop/...
mini-script.
Solaris 11.1, more or less default non-X install.
There're 17 scripts exceeding
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:21:40 +
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:06:06AM +0400, Reco wrote:
I don't know why people adopting it. I only have an option about why
distributions adapting
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Conrad Nelson y...@marupa.net wrote:
On 11/03/2013 10:41 AM, Reco wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:21:40 +
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:06:06AM +0400, Reco wrote:
Well, there are some nice features in systemd. It's easier
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Conrad Nelson y...@marupa.net wrote:
On 11/04/2013 10:22 AM, Tom H wrote:
On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 10:23:02AM +0100, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
I find shell scripts the most efficient way to
On 11/04/2013 12:22 PM, Tom H wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Conrad Nelson y...@marupa.net wrote:
On 11/03/2013 10:41 AM, Reco wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:21:40 +
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:06:06AM +0400, Reco wrote:
Well, there are some
On Mon, 04 Nov 2013 10:37:51 -0600
Conrad Nelson y...@marupa.net wrote:
Well, there are some nice features in systemd. It's easier to work with
unit files over shell scripts. It's nice to write out how you want the
system to manage services in a declarative style over an imperative one.
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 17:21:48 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
RHEL 6 (as well as Fedora 9-14) use upstart's /sbin/init and a few
upstart jobs. AFAIR, there are native jobs for setting up the ttys,
launching plymouth, and parsing /proc/cmdline in order to run
telinit runlevel and that's
On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 15:06:50 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, whoever he is, he raises some valid questions. Such as - what
logind are supposed to do? Why bother keeping unrelated projects in
systemd git?
He's a Gentoo developer who might be involved in OpenRC development
On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 15:58:45 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
_ sysvinit scripts are scripts. Scripts needs programming skills, and
the sh language does not have an easy to read syntax. I would in fact
call it rather obscure compared to various other languages I used.
Systemd
On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:55:44 -0400
John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
I am sure this is not urgent, Gnome should not be default DE and even
they could easily just
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:06:06AM +0400, Reco wrote:
Linux is way ahead of AIX, FreeBSD and HP-UX in this regard even if
using good ol' sysvinit. So, Lennart fixed what wasn't broken in the
first place.
If that were so, why are people adopting it?
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to
On Sun, 03 Nov 2013, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
and so, which would imply duplicate work. If Debian was a normal Linux
distribution, then portability would not have been a problem.
I don't see why Debian is not a normal Linux distibution and how
is it related to portability
Debian is not
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 10:23:02AM +0100, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
I find shell scripts the most efficient way to automate system adin
tasks. It could be because I am a programmer, but at least init
scripts are already provided, and small modifications should not be a
problem even for
On 03.Nov.2013, at 10:33, Marko Randjelovic wrote:
On Tue, 29 Oct 2013 16:55:44 -0400
John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
I am sure this is not urgent,
On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:21:40 +
Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote:
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:06:06AM +0400, Reco wrote:
Linux is way ahead of AIX, FreeBSD and HP-UX in this regard even if
using good ol' sysvinit. So, Lennart fixed what wasn't broken in the
first place.
If that
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 1:42 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 01.11.2013 20:01, Tom H a écrit :
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:58 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 31.10.2013 21:06, André Nunes Batista a écrit :
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29,
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
Probably not. At least, it seems incomprehensible to me why there
should even be a debate.
Is
Hi.
On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 12:09:51 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
As I said up-thread, it's a question of decoupling logind from systemd.
The Gentoo GNOME developers decided that it was simpler for them not to do so.
Given its attachment to upstart, Ubuntu must be planning to keep on
Le 02.11.2013 13:09, Tom H a écrit :
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 1:42 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
wrote:
Le 01.11.2013 20:01, Tom H a écrit :
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:58 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
wrote:
Le 31.10.2013 21:06, André Nunes Batista a écrit :
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at
Le 02.11.2013 13:23, Joel Rees a écrit :
On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:55 AM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com
wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
Probably not. At least, it seems incomprehensible
On Saturday, November 02, 2013 08:23:45 AM Joel Rees wrote:
I'm repeating myself, but good engineers don't do that.
No, they don't. They prepare new footings and pour a new foundation before
moving the house to the new location.
It's nice to know I haven't misperceived the situation.
--
To
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm a former Fedora user. Got my start on MkLinux and openBSD, but the
companies I worked for seemed to think the commercial support approach
from Red Hat was more in line with what they needed, so I shifted to
Red Hat and
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 12:09:51 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
As I said up-thread, it's a question of decoupling logind from systemd.
The Gentoo GNOME developers decided that it was simpler for them not to do
so.
Given
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:30 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Now, I wonder. Gnome was said portable, am I wrong? If they now have a hard
dependency on systemd, they can no longer be considered portable, since
systemd is itself only targeting linux kernels (and this is fine, since they
On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:23:01 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't trust this guy. He's generally very abrasive and very
aggressive. He joined or started a debian-devel thread on init systems
and tried to convince people
On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 21:08:29 +
Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote:
Misrepresenting what systemd is and the reasons for its existence
doesn't make sense:
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html
OS X and Solaris switched to launchd and smf respectively in 2005 and,
to borrow an
Hi.
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 15:35:40 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 01.11.2013 10:23, Reco a écrit :
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 09:58:26PM +0100,
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
That's not gnome which changes the boot process. It's systemd. It
simply happens that gnome
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:06 PM, André Nunes Batista
andrenbati...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:58 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 31.10.2013 21:06, André Nunes Batista a écrit :
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss
Le 01.11.2013 17:07, Reco a écrit :
Hi.
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 15:35:40 +0100
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
Le 01.11.2013 10:23, Reco a écrit :
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 09:58:26PM +0100,
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote:
That's not gnome which changes the boot process. It's
Le 01.11.2013 20:01, Tom H a écrit :
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:58 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org
wrote:
Le 31.10.2013 21:06, André Nunes Batista a écrit :
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com
wrote:
Could
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
Is it provoked by systemd's effort to
Le 31.10.2013 21:06, André Nunes Batista a écrit :
On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 14:22 +, Tom H wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com
wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire
Le 29.10.2013 23:25, Neal Murphy a écrit :
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 05:48:20 PM Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 04:55:44PM -0400, John wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
Le 29.10.2013 21:55, John a écrit :
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
Is it provoked by systemd's effort to be adopted having at least
found
a home with gnome, made urgent by gnome's status as our
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 8:55 PM, John johnrchamp...@wowway.com wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
Is it provoked by systemd's effort to be adopted having at least found
a home with gnome,
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 04:55:44PM -0400, John wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
I think it's largely driven by frustration over how bipartisan the
discussion is and how long it has been going
On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 05:48:20 PM Jonathan Dowland wrote:
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 04:55:44PM -0400, John wrote:
Could someone who has been following the giant fuss on -devel over
init systems explain why there's such a sense of dire urgency?
I think it's largely driven by
Neal writes:
I think a 'next-gen' sysvinit could be developed--from sysvinit--that
would satisfy most requirements of a services monitor
http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems
http://smarden.org/runit/
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=148747
wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenRC
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