Le 25 janvier 2022 01:07:14 GMT+01:00, Norbert Preining
a écrit :
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2022, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>> moral contract.
>
>Moral? Haven't seen that in the last months or years.
>Riding the moral horse after having waded through so much stuff.
>
>That is krass.
>
>Norbert
>
>--
On Mon, 24 Jan 2022, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> moral contract.
Moral? Haven't seen that in the last months or years.
Riding the moral horse after having waded through so much stuff.
That is krass.
Norbert
--
PREINING Norbert https://www.preining.info
Fujitsu
On 2022-01-24 14:35, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote:
>>
>> I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
>> future. Not because I care that much about the CoC, but because the
>> ideologically motivated organization will not be
local10 wrote on 24/01/2022 at 00:32:10+0100:
> Jan 23, 2022, 21:43 by p...@debian.org:
>
>> What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
>> Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
>> to overturn DAM's decision.
>>
>> In that heated
Norbert Preining wrote on 24/01/2022 at 00:09:10+0100:
> Hi peb,
>
>> And as debian-private is private, there is little to no chance a Debian
>> Member will provide any mail Norbert might not provide.
>>
>> And, for the sake of clarity, neither Norbert should provide no mail at
>> all, for the
On Lu, 24 ian 22, 01:37:55, max wrote:
> January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller"
> wrote:
>
> > Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as
> > community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the
> > reasoning for their decisions.
>
>
On 1/24/22 11:35, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote:
I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
future. Not because I care that much about the CoC, but because the
ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver
On Du, 23 ian 22, 10:52:48, deloptes wrote:
>
> I will be not surprised if I replace debian with something else in the
> future. Not because I care that much about the CoC, but because the
> ideologically motivated organization will not be able to deliver the
> expected quality.
Typically
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 09:50:45AM -0800, RP wrote:
> >
> This whole thread has turned into a violation of the very first rule.
By that, I presume you are referring to "The mailing lists exist to
foster the development and use of Debian. Non-constructive or off-topic
messages, along with other
On 2022-01-24 12:50, RP wrote:
> On 1/24/22 09:33, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
max wrote:
> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 11:36 Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On Mon Jan 24 08:51:46 2022 max wrote:
…
Amen, brother!
-Tom
On 1/24/22 09:33, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
max wrote:
For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
developers voted not to censure him.
On Mon Jan 24 08:51:46 2022 max wrote:
> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they",
> and Debian developers voted not to censure him.
> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html
> Seems like a double standard, but whatever.
I've bookmarked that web page. I largely
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 04:55:25PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> > max wrote:
> >
> > > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> > > developers voted not to censure him.
> > >
On Mon, Jan 24, 2022 at 12:44:52PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> max wrote:
>
> > For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> > developers voted not to censure him.
> > https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
> > standard, but whatever.
>
>
max wrote:
> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> developers voted not to censure him.
> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
> standard, but whatever.
If you engage in such discussion, you are ready to fail. There is no
24 Jan 2022, 19:52 by maxwi...@mailfence.com:
> For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian
> developers voted not to censure him.
> https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
> standard, but whatever.
>
> BTW, Norbert, I have used TeX
For comparison, RMS is publicly against singular "they", and Debian developers
voted not to censure him.
https://stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html Seems like a double
standard, but whatever.
BTW, Norbert, I have used TeX on Debian many times. So let me take this
opportunity to
On 2022-01-23 19:54, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
I have no idea what are your plan to reach down the road but you may
get
much more than you expect.
I think this is what is called gaslighting.
mick
--
Key ID4BFEBB31
January 24, 2022 3:44:51 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
wrote:
> You don't have other interest ? This seem to be the only thing you talked
> about and never asked a question on another subject.
You must have missed by post about
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> This seems to me close to harassment.
its just popcorn but you'll obviously never get it.
please stop as well and thank you in advance
--
FCD6 3719 0FFB F1BF 38EA 4727 5348 5F1F DCFE BCB0
On 2022-01-23 21:39, max wrote:
> January 24, 2022 2:23:12 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
> wrote:
>
>> None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if it's
>> of public utility.
>
> Nor was I suggesting otherwise.
>
> I'm just saying that it's odd for a
January 24, 2022 2:23:12 AM CET Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside
wrote:
> None here are public officials, this is a private corporation even if it's of
> public utility.
Nor was I suggesting otherwise.
I'm just saying that it's odd for a moralistic organization like Debian to be
less
On 2022-01-23 21:27, deloptes wrote:
> local10 wrote:
>
>> I asked you a simple question: Is there a list of all the horrible things
>> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?
>>
>> Instead of providing a clear answer to the question you seem to be more
>>
local10 wrote:
> I asked you a simple question: Is there a list of all the horrible things
> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?
>
> Instead of providing a clear answer to the question you seem to be more
> interesting in engaging in sophism and detracting
Hi,
On 2022-01-23 19:37, max wrote:
> January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller"
> wrote:
>
>> Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as
>> community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the
>> reasoning for their decisions.
>
> Indeed. In
On 2022-01-23 19:27, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 23:58 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
>
>>
>>
>>> Sounds sketchy but whatever. Is there a list of all the horrible things
>>> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?
>>> As a Debian and KDE user I'm trying to
On 1/23/22 16:37, max wrote:
January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller"
wrote:
Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as community
driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the reasoning for
their decisions.
Indeed. In the US, one can demand
January 22, 2022 1:52:16 PM CET "Marco Möller"
wrote:
> Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as community
> driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the reasoning for
> their decisions.
Indeed. In the US, one can demand to read the archived
Jan 23, 2022, 23:58 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
>
>
>> Sounds sketchy but whatever. Is there a list of all the horrible things
>> Norbert Preining said that was used to support the decision to demote him?
>> As a Debian and KDE user I'm trying to understand if Debian leadership was
>>
On 2022-01-23 18:32, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 21:43 by p...@debian.org:
>
>> What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
>> Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
>> to overturn DAM's decision.
>>
>> In that heated discussion,
Jan 23, 2022, 21:43 by p...@debian.org:
> What happened is that DAM took a decision, which was challenged by some
> Developers, among with some were willing to start a General Resolution
> to overturn DAM's decision.
>
> In that heated discussion, Ian decided to collect any bad interaction
>
Hi peb,
> And as debian-private is private, there is little to no chance a Debian
> Member will provide any mail Norbert might not provide.
>
> And, for the sake of clarity, neither Norbert should provide no mail at
> all, for the forementioned reason.
That remains solely at my discretion. I
n 1/23/22 13:43, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
local10 wrote on 23/01/2022 at 21:34:19+0100:
Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
What actions? Based on the message
(
local10 wrote on 23/01/2022 at 21:34:19+0100:
> Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
>
>> You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
>>
>
> What actions? Based on the message
> ( https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html ) it
> looks
On Sun, 2022-01-23 at 21:34 +0100, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
>
> > You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
> >
>
> What actions? Based on the message (
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html ) it
Jan 23, 2022, 20:12 by deb...@polynamaude.com:
> You'd leave because you have to be held responsible for your actions ?
>
What actions? Based on the message (
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2019/01/msg00186.html ) it looks like
they came up with the verdict first and then started to
On 2022-01-23 14:10, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:
>
>> On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>> I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
>> there, but i did not explore 900 matches of
>>
local10 wrote on 23/01/2022 at 20:10:26+0100:
> Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:
>
>> On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>> I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
>> there, but i did not explore 900 matches
On 2022-01-23 08:53, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>
> [Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]
>
>> This is a mailing list, not a airport. No need to announce any departure.
>> If you feel there's something better then go for your own faith.
>>
>> The basis of community based software is pretty simple :
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:10:26PM +0100, local10 wrote:
> Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:
>
> > On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> > I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
> > there, but i did not
On 2022-01-23 08:16, mick crane wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 11:56, Andy Smith wrote:
>> Hi Mick,
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:52:12AM +, mick crane wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
>>> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
>>> > > I was a little
Jan 23, 2022, 18:48 by ta...@debianlists.mobilxpress.net:
> On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>
>>
>>
> I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
> there, but i did not explore 900 matches of
>
> >
>
On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 08:29:42PM +0100, Marco Möller wrote:
On 22.01.22 15:24, songbird wrote:
Thomas Schmitt wrote:
...
When this topic came up i googled around for learning about the actual
conflict.
This mail by Norbert Preining
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 08:31:29AM -0700, Charles Curley wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:03:27 +0100
> wrote:
[...]
> > This is not helpful [...]
> This isn't very helpful either. What we have here is a difference in
> world view. At least one of you is (and possibly both are) wrong.
You are
On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 11:03:27 +0100
wrote:
> > Looking into the details to me it seems exactly as expected. The
> > liberal hijacked Debian [...]
>
> This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf.
> your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark
>
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> Just a note, he's not 30
https://people.debian.org/~peb/resume.html
but I stop as it is unbearable ... and I am not sure who is playing the
fool.
You are just digging the grave for this awesome project and I hope I am
wrong. But it could be just
> > > > This diff might give you an idea of some of the problems with this
> > > > software (sadly broken TLS setup so have to click through warning):
> > > >
> > > > https://gitlab.com/woob/woob/-/merge_requests/228/diffs#85eabf8cd7ee0b4611976309bd723f6ad7b301c4_785_784
> If you insist on
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 05:59:40AM -0500, Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
>
>
> On 2022-01-23 04:52, deloptes wrote:
> > Marco Möller wrote:
> >
[Marco Moeller]
> >> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to
> >> not provoke avoidable discussions and would
I was not considering keeping up this discussion but it's really too
tempting, so here is a last one!
deloptes wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100:
> I do not know you
But,
> I am fed up of guys like you.
deloptes wrote on 23/01/2022 at 13:30:03+0100:
> I do not know you and I do not
On 2022-01-23 11:56, Andy Smith wrote:
Hi Mick,
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:52:12AM +, mick crane wrote:
On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
> > I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
> > software
> >
Hi delptes,
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 01:30:03PM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> I do not know you and I do not insult you
> I am fed up of guys like you.
> you are one of those smart, morally superior *** *, who know they are
> better.
> I even do not expect you will understand what I am saying
On 2022-01-23 07:30, deloptes wrote:
> Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>
>> You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph
>> full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and
>> shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to
>>
Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> You do not care but still take plenty time to post a very long paragraph
> full of nonsense which brings nothing relevant to the discussion, and
> shows that you are also able to lack that ability you claim having to
> have a constructive debate instead of asserting,
deloptes wrote on 23/01/2022 at 11:38:21+0100:
> Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
>
>> Thanks for sharing this masterpiece of rhetoric, intellect and
>> understanding about how things work in Debian.
>>
>> This was enlightening.
>
> you are welcome (I am not stupid, just answering in the same
Hi Mick,
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:52:12AM +, mick crane wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
> > > I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
> > > software
> > > got removed from the repository
On 2022-01-23 06:52, mick crane wrote:
> On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
>>> I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
>>> software
>>> got removed from the repository because of variable
On 2022-01-23 11:38, Andy Smith wrote:
Hello,
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
software
got removed from the repository because of variable names.
If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was
Hello,
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 11:17:25AM +, mick crane wrote:
> I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that software
> got removed from the repository because of variable names.
If you're referring to the WebOOB package, that was not why it was
removed and incorrect
Hi,
On 2022-01-23 06:17, mick crane wrote:
>>
>> All together it is sad that conflicts are not solved for one or another
>> reason.
>
> This is probably an accurate observation.
> I was a little concerned about the direction of travel when that
> software got removed from the repository because
On 2022-01-23 08:19, deloptes wrote:
Marco Möller wrote:
I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot
to
not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat
given
off obstructively.
As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old
Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside wrote:
> I feel like someone is very frustrated and can't seem to self moderate
> himself.
>
> This is probably the part of opensource community that is the most time
> consuming and more destructive for all projects, what make serious
> people look at us like if
On 2022-01-23 04:52, deloptes wrote:
> Marco Möller wrote:
>
>> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to
>> not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given
>> off obstructively.
>> As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from
On 2022-01-23 05:31, deloptes wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
>
>> This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf.
>> your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark
>> Conspiracy Taking Over The World (TM).
>>
>
> No conspiracy - it is a fact.
>
>>
Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> Thanks for sharing this masterpiece of rhetoric, intellect and
> understanding about how things work in Debian.
>
> This was enlightening.
you are welcome (I am not stupid, just answering in the same manner)
I do not care what you do in Debian. I use and support
to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf.
> your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of Some Dark
> Conspiracy Taking Over The World (TM).
>
No conspiracy - it is a fact.
> Stick to the things as they are. Accept that there are
deloptes wrote on 23/01/2022 at 10:52:48+0100:
> Marco Möller wrote:
>
>> Asking for transparency to sound like trolling wasn't my intention. I am
>> sorry if I wasn't able to find the correct wording for keeping these to
>> things distinguishable.
>>
>> Being a grateful user of Debian, and
On Sun, Jan 23, 2022 at 10:52:48AM +0100, deloptes wrote:
[...]
> Looking into the details to me it seems exactly as expected. The liberal
> hijacked Debian [...]
This is not helpful. If you value logic as much as you talk about (cf.
your other post), you wouldn't need this narrative of
Marco Möller wrote:
> Asking for transparency to sound like trolling wasn't my intention. I am
> sorry if I wasn't able to find the correct wording for keeping these to
> things distinguishable.
>
> Being a grateful user of Debian, and being in my circle of influence a
> strong advocate of the
Marco Möller wrote:
> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to
> not provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given
> off obstructively.
> As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old
> discussions which appear to be the
On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 08:29:42PM +0100, Marco Möller wrote:
> On 22.01.22 15:24, songbird wrote:
> > Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > ...
> > > When this topic came up i googled around for learning about the actual
> > > conflict.
> > > This mail by Norbert Preining
> > >
> > >
On 22.01.22 15:24, songbird wrote:
Thomas Schmitt wrote:
...
When this topic came up i googled around for learning about the actual
conflict.
This mail by Norbert Preining
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2018/12/msg00032.html
describes his view on his demotion from Debian Developer
Thomas Schmitt wrote:
...
> When this topic came up i googled around for learning about the actual
> conflict.
> This mail by Norbert Preining
>
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2018/12/msg00032.html
>
> describes his view on his demotion from Debian Developer to Debian
> Maintainer by
Hi,
Marco Möller wrote:
> a statement like the following would provide some transparency:
> "the package maintainer was asked to comply to the following rules
> ...(stating which ones...) but apparently no conciliation was reached;
> therefore the committee ...(stating which committee)... decided
On 16.01.22 22:36, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
Anders Andersson wrote on 16/01/2022 at 17:09:01+0100:
On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 11:29 AM Marco Möller
wrote:
Does somebody has information about what in the background has happened,
which made Norbert leaving the team?
Considering that Debian
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:56 PM Nicholas Geovanis
wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:21 PM wrote:
>
>>
>> 18 Jan 2022, 08:09 by p...@debian.org:
>>
>> > harrywea...@tutanota.com wrote on 17/01/2022 at 01:02:28+0100:
>> >
>> >> And I believe in open source.
>> >>
>> >
>> > That's good to know,
harrywea...@tutanota.com wrote on 17/01/2022 at 23:21:07+0100:
> 18 Jan 2022, 08:09 by p...@debian.org:
>
>>
>> harrywea...@tutanota.com wrote on 17/01/2022 at 01:02:28+0100:
>>
>>> And I believe in open source.
>>>
>>
>> That's good to know, although I don't see the connection with what I
>>
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022, 4:21 PM wrote:
>
> 18 Jan 2022, 08:09 by p...@debian.org:
>
> > harrywea...@tutanota.com wrote on 17/01/2022 at 01:02:28+0100:
> >
> >> And I believe in open source.
> >>
> >
> > That's good to know, although I don't see the connection with what I
> > said.
>
> Open source
18 Jan 2022, 08:09 by p...@debian.org:
>
> harrywea...@tutanota.com wrote on 17/01/2022 at 01:02:28+0100:
>
>> And I believe in open source.
>>
>
> That's good to know, although I don't see the connection with what I
> said.
>
Open source equates with open information access.
That's actually
harrywea...@tutanota.com wrote on 17/01/2022 at 01:02:28+0100:
> And I believe in open source.
That's good to know, although I don't see the connection with what I
said.
(apart from that matter you should check your mail client configuration,
replying below the quoted mail that you've put
--
Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox.
17 Jan 2022, 07:36 by p...@debian.org:
>
> Anders Andersson wrote on 16/01/2022 at 17:09:01+0100:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 11:29 AM Marco Möller
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Does somebody has information about what in the background has
Anders Andersson wrote on 16/01/2022 at 17:09:01+0100:
> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 11:29 AM Marco Möller
> wrote:
>>
>> Does somebody has information about what in the background has happened,
>> which made Norbert leaving the team?
>> Considering that Debian is a community project and myself
On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 11:29 AM Marco Möller
wrote:
>
> Does somebody has information about what in the background has happened,
> which made Norbert leaving the team?
> Considering that Debian is a community project and myself feeling to be
> part of the community, although not actively
Hello,
On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 11:28:54AM +0100, Marco Möller wrote:
> https://www.preining.info/blog/2022/01/future-of-my-packages-in-debian/
>
> I wish that someone could publish some background information, neutral and
> respectful and without harming anybody.
If Norbert himself did not
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