Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-09-21 Thread Joel Rees
to stop here or I'm not going to get any sleep. Joel Rees Computer storage is nothing more than fancy paper, and the CPU nothing more than a fancy set of pens. All is text, streaming forever from the past into the future. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-09-21 Thread Joel Rees
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that one of the developers replied to me off-list something like the following, as if to help me unpack some of what I wrote: On Mon, 22 Sep 2014, Joel Rees wrote: What problem were you trying to solve when you decided there had to be a switch

Re: systemd/cgroups changing permissions (was: Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian)

2014-09-21 Thread Joel Rees
2014/09/22 5:21 Ansgar Burchardt ans...@43-1.org: Hi Joel, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: (6) systemd and cgroups (at minimum) end up overriding the permissions system. It's bad enough having SELinux and ACLs brought in to knock holes in the permissions system, but when arbitrary

Re: Debian/Linux equivalent of RDP session / remote X11 session

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
installable on PPC Macs when I last looked. Just about any Linux should be installable or runnable as a VM on an Intel Mac. openbsd and netbsd are probably also options. Last time I checked, Freebsd for PPC was still only for the adventurous, etc. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just

Re: [OT] SSH Server for Android

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
it comfortably. gedit works. If I had more room on the internal flash for installing things, I could probably install enough to get it to be stable enough to read and write e-mail and browse the web. Joel Rees

Re: Whats your way of sharing data between PCs?

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
-at-a-time that you definitely should avoid trying to do both-at-once, if you value your data.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: There is no choice ...well yes there is

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
that you are saying the only choice anyone needs is the option to install with systemd? -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:46 AM, Reco recovery...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:12:38 +0900 Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: I will acknowledge that there are some things that we could do to improve the current (sysv) init in debian. * Get rid of run levels

Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk wrote: On 23/09/14 00:22, Joel Rees wrote: I think you are saying that there is an implementation of cgroups independent of systemd? systemd does not implement cgroups. The kernel implements them; systemd just uses them. Does

Re: systemd/cgroups changing permissions

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/22/2014 10:27 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:35:59AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: When I can, I'll file a bug report. If ever. I know the theory, so I don't use those, so it's not a high priority

More FUD for everyone: Computers Are Dangerous! (Users are devs, after all.)

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
what you deserve -- a system full of bugs, because no one dares disagree with the developers. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:16 AM, lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de wrote: Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: (2) When I was a college student, when we talked about modularity, we talked about something called implicit linkage. I don't know what the current term for it is, but it is the generalized

Re: systemd/cgroups changing permissions (was: Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian)

2014-09-22 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:35:59AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: 2014/09/22 5:21 Ansgar Burchardt ans...@43-1.org: Hi Joel, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: (6) systemd and cgroups (at minimum) end up

Re: [OT] SSH Server for Android

2014-09-23 Thread Joel Rees
, 2014 at 6:19 PM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: 2014/09/23 2:24 Danilo Sampaio danilo.samp...@gmail.com: Hi guys, I know this topic is somewhat out of debian context, but someone knows a opensource project like a SSH Server for Android, with X11 Session Forward Support? Thanks

Re: Power Mac G4 stuck Loading second stage bootstrap

2014-09-23 Thread Joel Rees
linked to and thinking it may well not. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas

Re: systemd bug closed - next steps?

2014-09-24 Thread Joel Rees
for this task :) Glibc maintainer style was the main reason of glibc → eglibc transition in Debian. Just for fun, I did a search on gnu vs. redhat. One of the more amusing links that popped up: http://www.informit.com/library/content.aspx?b=red_hat_linux7seqNum=12 Irony abounds. -- Joel Rees

Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-09-25 Thread Joel Rees
2014/09/25 9:15 lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de: Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:16 AM, lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de wrote: I could guess that implicit linkage might refer to side effects of intentional entanglement which may be undesirable or may occur without

Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-09-25 Thread Joel Rees
On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 5:34 AM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Jo, 25 sep 14, 21:27:30, Joel Rees wrote: There is always that possibility. It's one of the reasons for the old adage, If it ain't broke, don't fix it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen Sigh. Andrei, I

Re: Challenge to you: Voice your concerns regarding systemd upstream

2014-09-26 Thread Joel Rees
or collusion. I used to thing that the problem was judges and lawyers who didn't understand the tech. Groklaw was one of the things that taught me the reality: The industry itself was in collusion. And it still is. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart

Re: Suggestions? A small webserver for file upload

2014-09-26 Thread Joel Rees
could run this application on, Wheezy and Squeeze. What would people's preferred webserver package be for this type of application? Not sure why you wouldn't want to use apache or lighttpd. -- Joel Rees Computer store is just fancy paper, the CPUs just fancy pens. All is text, streaming

Re: Challenge to you: Voice your concerns regarding systemd upstream

2014-09-26 Thread Joel Rees
the NSA I'm worried about. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas

Re: Suggestions? A small webserver for file upload

2014-09-27 Thread Joel Rees
2014/09/28 0:06 Ron Leach ronle...@tesco.net: On 27/09/2014 15:35, Miles Fidelman wrote: Joel Rees wrote: On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Ron Leach ronle...@tesco.net wrote: List, good afternoon, What package would list members suggest for a small webserver that would enable co

funny text in bash history

2014-09-27 Thread Joel Rees
with the box off-line tonight and check things carefully. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: Let's have a vote!

2014-09-28 Thread Joel Rees
Lee's point. Moral justification is not the only reason to want people to work together with. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: funny text in bash history

2014-09-28 Thread Joel Rees
2014/09/28 20:17 Cindy-Sue Causey butterflyby...@gmail.com: On 9/27/14, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Booted this morning, started my usual pattern of bringing the appropriate apt-get commands up from history. (I'm lazy, okay?) Had a bunch of unicode proxies and a reference

Re: funny text in bash history

2014-09-28 Thread Joel Rees
2014/09/28 20:40 The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 09/28/2014 at 07:17 AM, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote: On 9/27/14, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Booted this morning, started my usual pattern of bringing the appropriate apt-get

Re: systemd and server use

2014-09-29 Thread Joel Rees
microkernel. NetBSD's anykernel and DragonFlyBSD's hybrid kernel designs could be considered at least to incorporate parts of the microkernel design. L4, among others. It's worth looking at wikipedia's article on microkernels for starters, if you're interested in the subject. Joel Rees Computer memory

Re: Let's have a vote!

2014-09-30 Thread Joel Rees
whining about the anti-systemd noise won't really be able to see that that is what they've been doing. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: Fwd: Re: cron in UTC?

2014-09-30 Thread Joel Rees
excuse to actually join the dev team, in spite of my misgivings about systemd and the API creep? Is your third going to need to run jessie with systemd? How much and what kind of hardware/OS resources does he or she need to be able to bring to the table? Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper

Re: Fwd: Re: cron in UTC?

2014-10-02 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/01 21:29 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh h...@debian.org: On Wed, 01 Oct 2014, Joel Rees wrote: Should I use this as my excuse to actually join the dev team, in spite of my misgivings about systemd and the API creep? Only if you promisse me you are never going to mention systemd again

Re: Data from a serial port

2014-10-03 Thread Joel Rees
, and not noticing a slipped lead can cost hours of unnecessary work.And there are tests you really don't want to try without a breakout box or the equivalent. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy

Re: Data from a serial port

2014-10-03 Thread Joel Rees
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote: On 10/3/2014 8:19 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote: On 10/2/2014 8:24 PM, Ethan Rosenberg wrote: [...] In addition to Dan's comments - is your cable OK

Re: Data from a serial port

2014-10-03 Thread Joel Rees
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote: On 10/3/2014 9:52 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote: On 10/3/2014 8:19 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 5:52 AM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc

Re: Debian policy on alternate init systems

2014-10-04 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/04 17:30 Curt cu...@free.fr: On 2014-10-03, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: I like this one, because it makes me smile. I like pieces of softwares with play on words (this translation sounds strange... is it the correct one?) It's the

Re: Jessie netinstall CD on very limited internet connection.......

2014-10-05 Thread Joel Rees
also be due to errors in the download. Slow connections can sometimes be less reliable -- old equipment, etc., and checksums are statistical objects. Nothing drastic, but I just wondered. Charlie -- Joel Rees Free is not Free! Choose your responsibility. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian

Re: Jessie netinstall CD on very limited internet connection.......

2014-10-05 Thread Joel Rees
want him to try to roll back the testing repository or a mirror so he can do a full binary compare? -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ

sock puppets (Re: (Song) ** SystemD)

2014-10-05 Thread Joel Rees
as it is, let's try not to get sucked into this kind of baiting. (Speaking as one who got a little bit sucked into it last week or so.) -- Joel Rees Computer storage is just fancy paper, the CPUs just fancy pens; all is text, streaming forever from the past into the future. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email

Re: Jessie netinstall CD on very limited internet connection.......

2014-10-05 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/06 10:44 Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz: On Sun, Oct 05, 2014 at 10:34:57PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: If you think you have found a problem, then as a user of testing you should report it. You may have found an obscure bug which should be fixed *before* Jessie

Re: Jessie netinstall CD on very limited internet connection.......

2014-10-05 Thread Joel Rees
was wondering that myself, but since he seemed to understand what he was doing in upgrading from wheezy, I assumed he'd understand that Jessie would likely have issues requiring a bit of patience and nursing on a slow connection. Charlie, care to enlighten us? Joel Rees

Re: [exim4] mixed up about terminology

2014-10-06 Thread Joel Rees
is for some reason set up to only allow outbound mail from that server, in which case you probably do want to authenticate on the lan, too. (Think, for example, about the possibility of malware on a local box.) Incoming mail may make sense to cache on a local server. Or maybe not. Joel Rees

Re: Jessie netinstall CD on very limited internet connection.......

2014-10-06 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/06 15:13 Charlie aries...@ipstarmail.com.au: On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 13:30:32 +0900 Joel Rees sent: snip Charlie, care to enlighten us? Thanks for your time with this. Joel I think you're right. I just didn't understand the way that the netinstall CD's work. The disk or rather

Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-07 Thread Joel Rees
! here, And this post will still not be blocked. Joel Rees On lkml, they block html.

Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-07 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 10:28 PM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 10/07/2014 at 02:58 AM, Joel Rees wrote: As Don pointed out, it's the threads that have been clipped, as it were, not the topics: I think it's probably just as well, as those threads themselves were started by either

Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-07 Thread Joel Rees
of documentation, how can systemd ever be considered ready until pid 1 is stripped down to the bare minimum? Greater than 1M is two orders of magnitude beyond too big. Does that help you see what Steve and others interpret as railroading? Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens

Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-08 Thread Joel Rees
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:16 PM, Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote: On Mi, 08 oct 14, 11:41:05, Joel Rees wrote: 2014/10/08 6:07 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com: On Ma, 07 oct 14, 12:00:57, Steve Litt wrote: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=727708

Re: [exim4] mixed up about terminology

2014-10-08 Thread Joel Rees
to be talking about VMs as much as (or more than) an actual network with physical boxes on it. 30 VMs, I think he said. So he is going to be getting practice. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy

Re: mounting local hd from live usb, was 'root account inaccessible'

2014-10-08 Thread Joel Rees
Does jessie still provide /dev/disk/by-id , etc.? as in ls -la /dev/disk/by-id ls -la /dev/disk/by-label etc.? Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: implicit linkage (was: Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian)

2014-10-09 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/09 10:58 lee l...@yagibdah.de: Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: 2014/09/25 9:15 lee l...@yun.yagibdah.de: Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: Hmm. So linkage is a result of complexity, What is complexity? Complexity is not a simple topic. :-\ Indeed. And one

Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian

2014-10-09 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/10 8:47 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com: On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 21:27:30 +0900 Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: Complexity is not a simple topic. :-\ Can I quote you on that? Heh. I was quoting several teachers and co-workers, I don't know if anyone has figured out who said

Re: question about systemd

2014-10-09 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/10 9:03 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com: [...] LOL, the more people bust old features putting in new features, the more I kludge. And that sums the entire argument up nicely, perhaps. :-( Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream

Re: In Poettering's own words: was question about systemd

2014-10-11 Thread Joel Rees
Testing, here. Just want to check whether I get filtered out from here, as well. (Two responses to a thread that invites discussion of the /usr merge have not made it to the list yet.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble?

Re: implicit linkage (was: Re: Effectively criticizing decisions you disagree with in Debian)

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
. == -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Bash usage: was implicit linkage

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
/ Or you could talk about the difference between the jobs of distributor and integrator, if you're completely anti-DIY. [...] Although, some of us don't really care all that much for IKEA furniture. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text

Re: Bash usage: was implicit linkage

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
mind watching and learning while they do, that's not necessarily a bad thing, given courtesy and quid-pro-quo, of course. [...] Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: Bash usage: was implicit linkage

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/13 2:45 Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com: On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 09:33:43 +0100 Martin Read zen75...@zen.co.uk wrote: On 12/10/14 04:12, Peter Zoeller wrote: But the nice thing is shell scripting is simplistic easy to learn and understand. I refer the audience to David A.

Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
.) -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https

Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
be that registered testers might be even more susceptible to social engineering. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ

Re: implicit linkage

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
to pass regressions. -- Joel Rees Be careful where you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: MTAs denying messages (was: Re: Moderated posts?)

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 9:24 AM, lee l...@yagibdah.de wrote: Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: (But in this case, absolutely requiring a response would be building a DOS and potential privacy vulnerability into the message infrastructure. The RFCs really should be stored with a summary

Re: Bash usage: was implicit linkage

2014-10-12 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:53:03AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: 2014/10/13 2:14 Andrei POPESCU andreimpope...@gmail.com: On Du, 12 oct 14, 10:30:52, The Wanderer wrote: On 10/12/2014 at 10:07 AM, Andrei POPESCU

Re: [exim4] mixed up about terminology

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
for their money, the more they switch to legitimate work. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ

Re: implicit linkage

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
themselves working together. There are other goals I should mention, but I don't imagine Lennart Poettering is even the slightest interested in what we have to say here, so I won't bother. No matter how much better it is now than last year, the code is still just plain wrong. -- Joel Rees

Re: implicit linkage

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Ansgar Burchardt ans...@43-1.org wrote: Hi, On 10/13/2014 12:14, Joel Rees wrote: Get pid 1 down to 100 lines of C, no loops, no functions called, then I'll be impressed. [...] Setting aside initialization code, pid 1 should target less than 1000 lines of C

Re: Bash usage: was implicit linkage

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 02:10:11PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: Which is another way of saying that you want others to have already made the mistakes for you. No it isn't! Ponder why most people take

Re: implicit linkage

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:14:29PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote: On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 02:48:55PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: On Sun, 12 Oct

Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
problems with non-issues is not a good idea. Step 5: A chorus of boos rises aganst the whole thread, because there is no whitepaper, and no clairvoyance, and besides, it looks just like this non-issue. Presto: All dissent is fud. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy

Re: Way OT: Re. lines of code [was Re: implicit linkage]

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:47 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Chris Bannister wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 07:14:29PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Jonathan Dowland j...@debian.org wrote: On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 02:48:55PM -0400, Steve Litt

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
of a book on Quantum Chromodynamics. Can I recommend a thesis on analyzing execution paths of critical processes? -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself

Re: debian-advocacy?

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Tue 14 Oct 2014 at 08:02:28 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote: On Mon 13 Oct 2014 at 15:07:33 -0700, Buntunub wrote: This list is the perfect place for such things

Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
it to be like snail-mail, only automatic, but don't realize that having people in the loop is what provides the desired feature. I mean, you really can't have certified delivery without someone to certify it. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself

Re: Network fails on headless system. I'm stuck!

2014-10-13 Thread Joel Rees
related in there. any idea what the problem is, and how to solve? thanks for any help, Jan ps. I did not subscribe the list. Please CC me. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself

Re: Recipient validation - WAS: Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-14 Thread Joel Rees
Oh, dear. Somebody is WRONG on the Internet! You're talking past each other. Still, the current standard e-mail protocols were never meant to be either reliable or secure, and their is a very good reason for that. People may not be as reliable as machines in executing protocols, but they cannot

Re: OT: Re: Recipient validation - WAS: Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-15 Thread Joel Rees
% reliable. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge

Re: Conflict of interest in Debian

2014-10-15 Thread Joel Rees
further than that will, again, invite people to call Foul!, so I'll refrain. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject

Re: Conflict of interest in Debian

2014-10-15 Thread Joel Rees
2014/10/16 5:46 Ric Moore wayward4...@gmail.com: On 10/15/2014 12:39 PM, Steve Litt wrote: We've actually been in this place before. Wonderful Linux company Caldera became SCO (oversimplification, but you know what I mean). Wonderful Linux company Corel changed their CEO, and promptly

Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)

2014-10-15 Thread Joel Rees
the package to manage it within the standard unix permissions model? :-( Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)

2014-10-15 Thread Joel Rees
on-topic here. -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- Joel Rees

Would discussion of improving sysv-init be on topic?

2014-10-15 Thread Joel Rees
existing alternatives exist and how well they work, With enough discussion, we might be able to get enough mass to get a project started and get it (mostly) off-list. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: piece of mind (Re: Moderated posts?)

2014-10-16 Thread Joel Rees
by now. Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: Recipient validation - WAS: Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-16 Thread Joel Rees
that would rather see your version of SMTP rules be followed by everyone than try to follow the RFC yourself. Where are your SMTP rules spelled out, by the way? -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy

Re: Would discussion of improving sysv-init be on topic?

2014-10-16 Thread Joel Rees
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: * On 2014 15 Oct 19:39 -0500, Joel Rees wrote: systemd's problems would best be discussed at the systemd project. (Modulo the willingness of the devs over there to discuss them.) What I'm thinking is to talk about specific

Re: Recipient validation - WAS: Re: Moderated posts?

2014-10-16 Thread Joel Rees
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:34 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 10/16/2014 7:40 AM, Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 7:58 PM, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: On 10/15/2014 8:37 PM, Jerry Stuckle jstuc...@attglobal.net wrote: Tanstaafl

Re: Would discussion of improving sysv-init be on topic?

2014-10-16 Thread Joel Rees
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Nate Bargmann n...@n0nb.us wrote: * On 2014 16 Oct 07:54 -0500, Joel Rees wrote: Would that be debian's sysv-init? That link is from the sysvinit-core package's description in Sid's Aptitude. Presumably it is the upstream project. Thank you. I was under

Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems

2014-10-17 Thread Joel Rees
-calling, etc., is a bit more than playground antics? -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: Does Debian still have a systemd-must-die metapackage?

2014-10-21 Thread Joel Rees
-devel/2014/06/msg00587.html And the discussion continued from there. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ

Re: Error code 1...........

2014-10-23 Thread Joel Rees
suggestion, but have you tried apt-get clean ? -- Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

Re: Problem with systemd-sleep in Jessie

2014-10-23 Thread Joel Rees
a live image on an external device so you can read the logs at better leisure, grep, etc.? -- Joel Rees

Re: How To Prove Systemd Can|Cannot Be Jessie Default

2014-10-23 Thread Joel Rees
it was. You'd better rearrange your beliefs, then. Because you certainly can't rearrange the universe. Heh. __--from_Nightfall_by_Asimov/Silverberg_ -- Joel Rees By the waters of Babylon ...

Re: Debian and upstream choices

2014-10-28 Thread Joel Rees
is receptive or not. I dunno. That sounds a little cynical to me. -- Joel Rees Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens. All is a stream of text flowing from the past into the future.

bc menu files? (Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...)

2014-10-29 Thread Joel Rees
anything bc-ish.) What menus should I be looking in? -- Joel Rees Be careful when you see conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: bc menu files? (Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...)

2014-10-29 Thread Joel Rees
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 9:02 PM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 29.10.2014 12:35, schrieb Joel Rees: On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: [...] Quite a few packages ship Debian menu files and/or freedesktop.org .desktop files

Re: bc menu files? (Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...)

2014-10-31 Thread Joel Rees
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: Am 2014-10-29 15:42, schrieb Joel Rees: And that tells me exactly zip about why bc doesn't show up in my XFCE4 menus. (I mean the pointy-clicky ones.) I suspect XFCE4, like most DEs available, only parses XDG

a perfect car analogy for a perfect Jessie is something like this...

2014-10-31 Thread Joel Rees
now that most of those who didn't like it jumped ship. It works for the Mint crowd. I don't think it works for more than about half the debian crowd. (I personally would have chosen a metaphor about cars with built-in entertainment/communication/navigation systems, but that's me. :) -- Joel

Re: bc menu files? (Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...)

2014-10-31 Thread Joel Rees
On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Carl Johnson ca...@peak.org wrote: Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 11:59 PM, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote: I suspect XFCE4, like most DEs available, only parses XDG .desktop files, and doesn't parse Debian's menu

Re: umask has no man page?

2014-11-02 Thread Joel Rees
did the trick, or it might have been mingw I did that on. Wheezy, FWIW. (And thanks to The Wanderer for reminding us about the help command. I keep forgetting that.) -- Joel Rees -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact

Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...

2014-11-02 Thread Joel Rees
inits, is helping to partially correct that. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...

2014-11-02 Thread Joel Rees
? -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble

Re: umask has no man page?

2014-11-02 Thread Joel Rees
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 9:35 PM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/02/2014 at 03:23 AM, Joel Rees wrote: 2014/11/02 11:19 Carl Fink c...@finknetwork.com: When I wanted the options for umask, I typed 'man umask' and got the man page for it as a C header diretive? (I'm not a C

Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...

2014-11-02 Thread Joel Rees
about. And we probably should be a little less prickly about it when we give our patches to the devs. -- Joel Rees Be careful when you look at conspiracy. Look first in your own heart, and ask yourself if you are not your own worst enemy. Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well

Re: umask has no man page?

2014-11-02 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:26 AM, The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/02/2014 at 10:12 AM, Joel Rees wrote: [...] Seems to be done, not by symlink, but in the man db. What leads you to that conclusion? AFAIK, if 'man xyz' brings up a man page from section 1, then there is an xyz

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